High Isle/Galen writing quality. *SPOILERS*

JD2013

Usually I do not really make post likes this, but I felt compelled to having just finished the whole Legacy of the Bretons main quest.

I am sorry to say that this year's writing is a big low for Elder Scrolls Online. Grounded political story became another world ending threat. It's not even in the same universe as Wrothgar's political writing.

For a story advertised as being Legacy of the Bretons, we got basically nothing in terms of new Breton lore. There was some good bits of druid lore, but this was few and far between.

But here's the big elephant in the room: the writing for the main quest epilogue treats The Vestige and by extension the players like they’re stupid. Insultingly stupid. It was obvious who the Ascendant Lord was from the start, but then towards the end we go into a cave find the armour and diary and it’s like “why is that here? Why would

Spoiler

Bacaro

have this here?” I am actually mad at how insanely badly written this was.

The only good bits of this story were the bits with the Alliance leaders and they end it

Spoiler

with the peace talks starting

. This is also really bad, but I get it. We can't move the world state on because of ESO's approach to game design. The world must remain as is and nothing can change. This is also a big pain point of ESO. No character growth, nothing changes.

The writing has been treating The Vestige like they have minus IQ points for years now, but this year was just ... bad. There's no other way to say it.

We need more dialogue options. Like any good RPG, there needs to be more things to do through this. Use persuade, use intimidate, things like that. Make The Vestige into more of a character with even a faint glimpse of being more than just something to go punch things to end the threat.

If you are doing a political story, look back to Wrothgar. That was brilliantly handled and written.

Don't make threats so obvious. And when they are revealed, please, PLEASE do not write dialogue like the Ascendant Lord reveal.

If you are going to continue with year long themes, it is okay to make the chapter and zone DLC into two different self contained stories in the same region. The year long stories were a neat idea to begin, but it is obvious now that they strangle storytelling as opposed to help it.

And I know this one will never get approved, but please, PLEASE let the world move on. If characters are to grow, if things are to develop, then the world can't stay in this static state. Continue rebuilding Abbey of the Blades. Let the peace talks happen. Rebuild Bleakrock, heck, rebuild Imperial City. Let Mannimarco escape Coldharbour. Let Meridia have a go at us. There's so much more you could do by letting the world move on.

Wrothgar and the whole Daedric War arc were some of the finest writing in this game and indeed of any ES game. Please let's have more of that.

TaSheen

I - don't have any interest in the Daedric War stuff, or Wrothgar. So *shrug*. I'm happy with the last few years personally, excluding Greymoor/The Reach.

There's something for everyone in this game. You have your preferences, I have mine. I've been playing The Elder Scrolls since Arena released in 1994, so yeah, I have some serious years into this franchise.

I love ESO just the way it is, warts and all. Um. Other than the combat....

Carcamongus

Yeah, Buckethead Lord's identity was very lame. Considering how many people commented on it shortly after High Isle's release, I had some hopes the devs might surprise us with Firesong. No such luck.

prof-dracko

Personally I felt there was very little connection between the stories this year. Galen felt very disconnected from High Isle, besides thematically, and only barely connected with the "tie together at the end" quests. Galen could have been it's own isolated story perfectly fine (if you include the two dungeons and prologue quests), and if it had been I think it'd have felt far more successful. It all fell apart really at the end when

Spoiler

the Bacaro plotline tried to merge itself with the Druid plot when, to my recollection, they'd had no real intersect until that point

. It felt very rushed.

Treselegant

When High Isle came out, I was bothered enough by the writing that I came back to the forum after eight years to give my review. So I wasn't expecting much when I started Firesong but it was worse than bad for me...it was boring. I gave up for a few days because I was genuinely disinterested. I even had a couple of my guild mates, who were doing Firesong as well, ask if I found it as uninteresting as they did. I eventually finished it but what interest I had already drained away. Having King Emeric continue to ignore my companion's existence in the ending section (Bastian's father tried to murder Emeric and they look alike) just was icing on the underwhelming cake that was the Legacy of the Bretons story experience.

Talosgobrrrr

TaSheen wrote: »

I - don't have any interest in the Daedric War stuff, or Wrothgar. So *shrug*. I'm happy with the last few years personally, excluding Greymoor/The Reach.

There's something for everyone in this game. You have your preferences, I have mine. I've been playing The Elder Scrolls since Arena released in 1994, so yeah, I have some serious years into this franchise.

I love ESO just the way it is, warts and all. Um. Other than the combat....

You are falling into a fallacy, it is not an argument to say that you have been playing since 1994, the creator of the post has argued with FACTS, not opinions, why the writing of this chapter has been of very poor quality, in this type of post , debate is welcome, but with arguments based on facts, not opinions, opinions are useless, it is pure sand.

TiaFrye

I'm here with you on this. What I wouldn't give to have writer+designer duo who did Rivenspire, Wrothgar and Summerset for at least one year..! There's so many opportunities for a good meaningful stories even with all the cons we now have to keep new players up to date.

I can understand the concern of people who play ESO for two hours each evening and have no desire to dug deep to understand the greatness of sequels for any previous ESO stories but people with excellent record I bet can pull that out even with new independent story.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Anyone find it funny that the Ascendant Magus was of a higher rank of nobility then the Ascendant Lord.

ArchMikem

I also agree, with how upsetting the writing has been treating both the Vestige and the Player. It was actually this thread that spoiled who the Ascendant Lord was, but yes you are right, I had my suspicions from the start and you just verified them for me, so nothing was really spoiled, huh.

What irked me the most of the game these last couple years has actually been the puzzles. Specifically, the "Match 3" puzzles, where you're supposed to match three symbols on pillars with symbols found nearby in order to open some door. Thing is, there is no puzzle, you can't even solve it by trial and error. The game plays a visual effect and locks the interactable once you got the right symbol. All you have to do, is (on controller) tap 'A', then tap 'A', then tap 'A' until the game stops you. Do that three times and congrats, you solved the incredibly vague and complex puzzle that had your NPC companions totally stumped.

THEN, immediately after solving the puzzle the writing literally blocks your progression in the Quest until you ask your companion to remind you what you're doing. (that's from Blackwood...) The game's story telling has been progressively holding my hand tighter and tighter, sometimes I can't feel my fingers.

Katheriah

ArchMikem wrote: »

What irked me the most of the game these last couple years has actually been the puzzles. Specifically, the "Match 3" puzzles, where you're supposed to match three symbols on pillars with symbols found nearby in order to open some door. Thing is, there is no puzzle, you can't even solve it by trial and error. The game plays a visual effect and locks the interactable once you got the right symbol. All you have to do, is (on controller) tap 'A', then tap 'A', then tap 'A' until the game stops you. Do that three times and congrats, you solved the incredibly vague and complex puzzle that had your NPC companions totally stumped.

Have you found the sidequest with the 'riddle' yet? You get 2 dialogue options to solve it and the next step is a 'riddle' where you have to 'find' the 'secret' location. Which is just marked on the map. And yet the Vestige is the first to solve this century old riddle! Yay!

I was streaming to a friend and they noticed I was skipping through the main quest dialogue. Let me tell you one thing; that's not something I normally do.

It feels like they made a game for toddlers. It's just... It's so bad. It doesn't matter how pretty the environment is if the story makes me feel like my braincells die when I play it.

TheNuminous1

Been playing since launch. I've finished all the content every time it releases. But after elsweyr that slowed down. Had a hard time with greymoor. And with high isle I can't even finish it.

amig186

At least Galen had somewhat likeable characters and didn't have some writer's fanficy self-insert shoved in your face all the time. The story was nothing special, as expected, but compared to High Isle's dreadfully bland supporting cast, your allies in Galen at least had the bare minimum of characterisation and didn't feel like cardboard cutouts. I wouldn't even mind if Dhulef and Siravaen appeared in future stories, I genuinely liked those two.

Then roll on the epilogue and we're back with ms fanfic. Not even 5 minutes in and already Irnskar and Emeric are singing her praises. What a load of tripe. The big reveal might have been a surprise if I didn't already have him pegged as a probable candidate, at some point in Galen I thought that it might have also been Count Leonard since they sound similar, but by the end only one of them was left anyway. I can't say I found his motivations too compelling, he was exactly the same as Sister Celdina or any of the other cult leaders wanting to bring about a new world order.

I found it kind of funny, in a sad way, that Valessea was completely absent from the epilogue. It's like she was so forgettable that even the writers forgot about her. She only shows up at the very end when all of the participants of the peace talks need to show up. They didn't even re-hire the voice actress to record some new dialogue for her, she just repeats the same things she said at the end of High Isle. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

tsaescishoeshiner

I don't personally get mad or offended by quests "thinking the player is stupid" because they don't, they're just explaining something in an overly obvious and unsatisfying way. I agree they could have improved the dialogue there, and would have liked if the reveal happened in a better way.

Honestly, I don't think it's been working to tell us "Wait until the year-end quest for a BIG REVEAL about X character/object." By the time the reveal happens, it's obvious who or what it is because there are no other options left and it's unsurprising because it's been hyped to us for a long time.

What if the year-end quest isn't a big hyped-up climax that the two zones led up to? What if the year-end quest is a mission for two characters who we helped because they trust us now? I.e., what if we found the Ascendant Lord in High Isle, and the year-end quest was druids from each island asking for help to secure their seeds and hope for their people? (With adventure and drama and politics etc). I think the companion quests (especially Ember's) are a good model of how satisfying a character-driven quest can be.

Overall, I liked the Galen quests a lot, because I mainly play for the environment and worldbuilding rather than the characters or plot. I felt that the pacing was good in the Galen and year-end quests, with the year-end one being just short of rushed. I liked it!

BenTSG

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't personally get mad or offended by quests "thinking the player is stupid" because they don't, they're just explaining something in an overly obvious and unsatisfying way. I agree they could have improved the dialogue there, and would have liked if the reveal happened in a better way.

Honestly, I don't think it's been working to tell us "Wait until the year-end quest for a BIG REVEAL about X character/object." By the time the reveal happens, it's obvious who or what it is because there are no other options left and it's unsurprising because it's been hyped to us for a long time.

What if the year-end quest isn't a big hyped-up climax that the two zones led up to? What if the year-end quest is a mission for two characters who we helped because they trust us now? I.e., what if we found the Ascendant Lord in High Isle, and the year-end quest was druids from each island asking for help to secure their seeds and hope for their people? (With adventure and drama and politics etc). I think the companion quests (especially Ember's) are a good model of how satisfying a character-driven quest can be.

Overall, I liked the Galen quests a lot, because I mainly play for the environment and worldbuilding rather than the characters or plot. I felt that the pacing was good in the Galen and year-end quests, with the year-end one being just short of rushed. I liked it!

Having a story that isn't a "Who dun it" or "Where's Waldo" while waiting for the bad guy to show up would be a nice change of pace. Having a chapter set the scene, either throughout or right off the bat, and then having the story DLC be a time to 'prepare' for a final battle would be amazing, actually getting people involved instead of it basically just being you, the hero.

I suppose something like Molags questline would be amazing again. You know what's going on, you know the threat, but you need to gather the allies and tools to beat it, instead of just having some group attack people and spending the whole time killing them, getting tiny bits of information, and then finding all the pieces right at the end and finishing it.

Although to the credit of High Isle, I did enjoy finding out who the Lord was (I realized as soon as I walked into the secret basement, even if I was the only one as the player!) And finding out how Firesong actually played a part in the story. I was wondering what the focus on druids had to do with a order threatening peace talks.

Snamyap

ArchMikem wrote: »

I also agree, with how upsetting the writing has been treating both the Vestige and the Player. It was actually this thread that spoiled who the Ascendant Lord was, but yes you are right, I had my suspicions from the start and you just verified them for me, so nothing was really spoiled, huh.

What irked me the most of the game these last couple years has actually been the puzzles. Specifically, the "Match 3" puzzles, where you're supposed to match three symbols on pillars with symbols found nearby in order to open some door. Thing is, there is no puzzle, you can't even solve it by trial and error. The game plays a visual effect and locks the interactable once you got the right symbol. All you have to do, is (on controller) tap 'A', then tap 'A', then tap 'A' until the game stops you. Do that three times and congrats, you solved the incredibly vague and complex puzzle that had your NPC companions totally stumped.

THEN, immediately after solving the puzzle the writing literally blocks your progression in the Quest until you ask your companion to remind you what you're doing. (that's from Blackwood...) The game's story telling has been progressively holding my hand tighter and tighter, sometimes I can't feel my fingers.

Got the idea that they got a huge amount of negative feedback for that one time they put in a puzzle that required braincells: the dwarven mechanic down in the mine under the Graystone Quarry in Orsinium.
Though there were some no-brainers in vanilla. I cringed everytime I had to do that thing in Othrenis, Stonefall.

Luke_Flamesword

[snip]

There is spoiler alert in topic title, so I won't tag spoiler tag almost whole post, but I warn about it - there will a lot of spoilers:

1. There are something like 6-7 main quests which means that they are always rushed. I barely know names of people and there is final already. It was ridicoulous at Magus revealing identity, when he asked me if I know who is he (what a Scooby Doo moment!). Dude, I saw you only once at party, talked to you for 20 seconds (similiar thing for other noble dudes and dudinesses), so don't expect that I will some big conclucions at this stage. I barely started this adventure and you talk to me like some old arch-nemesis...

2. For many last dlc's first main quest have same structure - go to 3 places and gather some crap or look for something. It only shows how schematic it was. Same thing for evil groups and saving the world. This year was supposed to be more grounded and less about saving the world but at the end of course there was threat for whole Tamriel, again!

3. High Isle was PERFECT opportunity to make some "Game of thrones" plotline with politics, conspiracies, fighting for money and power, etc. Such a waste...

4. I don't know why, but this is most "strong woman" chapter ever. Normally I don't see a problem with this, but this year was ridicolous. Almost all important man are traitors, idiots, jesters or becames dead meat, with maybe only one exception for noble guy from Vastyr. In another side we have whole bunch of smart, strong and goodwill woman - druids, castle commanders, knights, Lady Arabelle, nobles, player companions, side quests characters, etc. Geez, it was like 1 good man for every 9 awesome woman.

5. Poison wine plot at the end, geez... it was so... I don't have words for it. First thing - so smart Lady Arabelle drink wine from ANONYMOUS fan, when there is Ascendand Order thread still going on. She should be more cautious in danger times, right? But best thing cames later. Bacaro tried to frame noble lady into poisoining and it almost works, but with his genius mind he also wanted to poison her with same wine, which was proof of her innocence and also bring us to his direction! And of course there is a journal in his evil lair where he reveal all his plans. Oh, a journal reveal [snip] and it's used A LOT in this game.

I wish some day to see more mature stories, for now it's PG-13 level, which reminds me all these superhero movies form Marvel and DC (of which I'm tired, because I want to experience somethng more than another fast-food story for kids)

[edited for bashing]

deGarcia

Agreed on so many levels. After release of Elsweyr, the new chapters become more and more underwhelming - so much that just love for TES universe is not getting you at least an inch emotionally involved in whatever's happening. There's no denying that here and there an effort was made, but it's sad when you remember some quests by how bad of an impression they left on you.

1. ''Year of the Dragon'' made sense as the year-long story actually had a dragon invasion throughout both the chapter and Q4 DLC, but everything after it is just like throwing big words around. ''Dark Heart of Skyrim'' where the actual Dark Heart is barely explained and only is used as a tool, ''Legacy of the Bretons'' with little to none of the actual legacy. You can't just pull up druid legacy, say that pretty much everyone have a druid in their family tree at some point, and say that it is now technically a Breton legacy. But yeah, I guess ''Gates of Oblivion'' kind of made sense as well...?
2. We were also actually promised a chapter about politics with no involvement of ''saving the entire world'', both are wrong. As much as there was a title ''Save Galen (and the entire Tamriel)'' or something close to it in a Firesong article, and the politics never really were touched upon. Saving Alliance Leaders and having them walk off the stage to do Peace Talks TM is not what I consider a story about politics. And I was absolutely demolished when during the playthrough I've made 4 plot-related jokes on ''hey, imagine if X actually happened'' to point out an incredibly obvious plot twist and they all actually happened later on in the game.
3. All of these latest chapters seem like a way to boost Vestiges ego. I don't mind the silly questions available in NPC dialogues because Chapters aren't just for the old players, but newcoming ones who may not be yet familliar with the years of content, but I draw the line on everything being put in the white or black light. The moment you learn of Lord's identity (despite knowing who it is, like, half a year prior), his behaviour instantly turns into ''hehe I'm evil and I'm going to be yelling evil things instead of giving any explanation whatsoever of my motives''. It is now never a story about solving a conflict, about villains having their own side of story, it is just stories of a good Vestige killing all the bad guys because they are bad guys. You enter the zone, get introduced to the conflict, kill the underling of an antagonist, wait half a year, kill one more underling, kill the main antagonist - repeat for next year.
4. Same point as above, but a little bit of salt regarding how little information is now given to the player. I don't find Markarth and Greymoor story to be my favourite, but I love the first half of Markarth itself because it gave it's antagonist a fate ultimatum and a motive for her actions, it actually introduced a whole new idea of vampires feeding of the primal Void itself, and then just threw it out the window. Okay, we can make that up with headcanons, but Orlaith in Firesong was given, like, 12 lines of dialogue where none explain what is the reason behind her actions, who she is (beside her title in hierarchy) and why is she collaborating with the Order? Am I.. not supposed to know and care as a player?
5. Point 5 in a reply above is just on spot. How some events of High Isle and Firesong even make sense?

I keep hoping that the stories in upcoming chapters get actually interesting, but that hope and faith is really draining out.

prof-dracko

deGarcia wrote: »

Agreed on so many levels. After release of Elsweyr, the new chapters become more and more underwhelming - so much that just love for TES universe is not getting you at least an inch emotionally involved in whatever's happening. There's no denying that here and there an effort was made, but it's sad when you remember some quests by how bad of an impression they left on you.

1. ''Year of the Dragon'' made sense as the year-long story actually had a dragon invasion throughout both the chapter and Q4 DLC, but everything after it is just like throwing big words around. ''Dark Heart of Skyrim'' where the actual Dark Heart is barely explained and only is used as a tool, ''Legacy of the Bretons'' with little to none of the actual legacy. You can't just pull up druid legacy, say that pretty much everyone have a druid in their family tree at some point, and say that it is now technically a Breton legacy. But yeah, I guess ''Gates of Oblivion'' kind of made sense as well...?
2. We were also actually promised a chapter about politics with no involvement of ''saving the entire world'', both are wrong. As much as there was a title ''Save Galen (and the entire Tamriel)'' or something close to it in a Firesong article, and the politics never really were touched upon. Saving Alliance Leaders and them having walk off the stage to do Peace Talks TM is not what I consider a story about politics. And I was absolutely demolished when during the playthrough I've made 4 plot-related jokes on ''hey, imagine if X actually happened'' to point out an incredibly obvious plot twist and they all actually happened later on in the game.
3. All of these latest chapters seem like a way to boost Vestiges ego. I don't mind the silly questions available in NPC dialogues because Chapters aren't just for the old players, but newcoming ones who may not be yet familliar with the years of content, but I draw the line on everything being put in the white or black light. The moment you learn of Lord's identity (despite knowing who it is, like, half a year prior), his behaviour instantly turns into ''hehe I'm evil and I'm going to be yelling evil things instead of giving any explanation whatsoever of my motives''. It is now never a story about solving a conflict, about villains having their own side of story, it is just stories of a good Vestige killing all the bad guys because they are bad guys. You enter the zone, get introduced to the conflict, kill the underling of an antagonist, wait half a year, kill one more underling, kill the main antagonist - repeat for next year.
4. Same point as above, but a little bit of salt regarding how little information is now given to the player. I don't find Markarth and Greymoor story to be my favourite, but I love the first half of Markarth itself because it gave it's antagonist a fate ultimatum and a motive for her actions, it actually introduced a whole new idea of vampires feeding of the primal Void itself, and then just threw it out the window. Okay, we can make that up with headcanons, but Orlaith in Firesong was given, like, 12 lines of dialogue where none explain what is the reason behind her actions, who she is (beside her title in hierarchy) and why is she collatobaring with the Order? Am I.. not supposed to know and care as a player?
5. Point 5 in a reply above is just on spot. How some events of High Isle and Firesong even make sense?

I keep hoping that the stories in upcoming chapters get actually interesting, but that hope and faith is really draining out.

See that was my point. Firesong was interesting enough to be its own self-contained story, but High Isle was a lot of barely connected threads. Even the trailers for HI made it feel as though the Ascendant Lord was going to be a far more integral and intimidating presence in the story, but he barely shows up at all until the final "tie it all up in a bow" quests. I got the impression of a direct insurgency, killing the nobles and putting himself on the thrones. Some kind of direct political threat with a well armed militia at his disposal. And it wasn't.

I don't view this as a year long story. I view it as two separate stories weakly connected at the end. Year of the Dragon was a connected story, each half fed into each other. Dark Heart was fantastic imo, where every moving piece throughout the year still connected to the final driving goal of the villain. I rate this year along with last years Oblivion story, a lot of interesting potential and some fascinating scraps of lore buried in a mess of shredded newspaper that something unpleasant might be using as nest.

Soraka

I usually make myself slow down and pay attention to the story, but Blackwood was the last time I did so. Just can't bring myself to care about these new plots.

deGarcia

prof-dracko wrote: »

Dark Heart was fantastic imo, where every moving piece throughout the year still connected to the final driving goal of the villain. I rate this year along with last years Oblivion story, a lot of interesting potential and some fascinating scraps of lore buried in a mess of shredded newspaper that something unpleasant might be using as nest.

I’ll mark this as just my personal opinion, I think, but Dark Heart could still be so much better than it was. I’m an artist and years later, I still make fanart of Markarth DLC for some of the characters, but I can’t wholeheartedly say that it’s a well-written DLC in all aspects.
While it did have it’s connections, the 2nd part of Q4 DLC didn’t do much to the lore. It just resolved around endless “man A tries to get man B back to his side” - it’s such a little, local conflict of two characters that does nothing to the big picture and their development, other than feeding you with the idea that B is good and not like those other filthy vampires TM, but still portraying him as blind to the truth as possible. All that instead of explaining why werewolves are still a part of the Gray Host, how exactly one uses the Void energy, and why every third dialogue line has a plot hole.
Local conflicts are OK. But making them run in circles ever since Prologue quest is not.

Malthorne

It’s obvious the writers have limited resources and are being rushed to create the stories so I don’t blame them. Three years in a row the MSQ is a stinker. This falls on leadership, however, I have a feeling that they don’t actually care about the quality. The just want to push content out to meet a silly cadence that looks good to their investors. There is no regard for creating something great and memorable for the player.

rpa

As I've done with last few new zones I did all Firesong side quests before tackling the main. I recall only one truly annoying and that was because at one point you are given task

Spoiler

to win a match of Tales of Tribute to proceed.

Spoiler

If you have not unlocked ToT or start a match and concede or lose to there is an alternate route.

It did not make main quest any better but gave some motivation to be done with it. A lot of running around with not much substance. (I also died plenty times in lava in pointless running around before final battle. Not sure if just confused but I was always too far from the "not die thing". The actual final battle was easy.)

Eric_Prince

Agree with almost everything above and just want to add my few cents about villains in general.

Honestly, I don't understand the love ZOS writers feel for stereotypical tyrants. Sure, they're easy to write. 'HAHAHA, I'm evil and I want to dominate/destroy the world! HAHAHA!". And sometimes it's okay...ish. When we talk about daedra lords or dragons, for instance. But villains can be much more interesting than this.

Speaking of epic stories and their villains. I don't really like 'Dark Heart of Skyrim', but I like main and 'Markarth' villains. They have at least some depth in them. I very much like secondary 'Summerset' villain, especially when you know her story from 'Morrowind'.

The only 'good' tyrants I can name would probably be 'Wrothgar' villains. And they aren't part of an epic story!

I think 'Legacy of the Bretons' main villain had a huge potential of being morally grey and very interesting character, [snip]

I hate empty criticism, so I tried to change the story to make its finale much better in my opinion without changing the whole story too drastically. So possile big spoilers ahead.

Spoiler

We can leave 'High Isle' as it is. And we just tweak a finale of 'Firesong' a bit. So, that evil achdruid with zero depth in her character steals all three seeds and tries to make herself a Druid King, like it was in the story.

But instead of just dying by our hand, she by her actions awakens the volcano and the spirit inside it (and makes suicide by Vestige, obviuosly). So, volcano will erupt, probably sooner than later. All circles are now doing their best to calm the spirit, but everyone understands: it won't go to sleep, the eruption is imminent, it's just the matter of time.

Then it's final quests time. Revealing of a 'grand' villain and so on. And this is what I would change the most. We start with the volcano starting to erupt. Earthquakes are getting more and more severe. Alliance's Leaders are preparing for the evacuation while we must deal with the Ascendant Order once and for all, because everyone are scared that the Order will try to kill leaders or something like that. So, we do our investigation and find out who the Ascendant lord really is. But at this very point druids find Vestige and ask us to help with the spirit of the volcano. Because no one else can keep it busy enough for druids to perform the ritual that will somehow make it go to sleep.

And so we go to the Firesong. With our good friends we fight through atronachs and other flaming monsters to finally meet the final boss that will be the spirit itself, not the Ascendant Lord in his Burning Man form. We fight, while druids and that cute nature spirit do their thing. Nature spirit takes place of the Firesong guardian, archipelago is saved.

And now it's time to bring the Lord to justice. And here lies the actual surprise. We see lord Bacaro and even some of the ascendant order goons helping people in Vastyr, devastated by the earthquake. He's cleaning the rubble, managing healers and so on. Obviously, he knows that we know his true identity. But he actually cares about helping people in need. And he just surrenders to us.

Final quest is the trial. Bacaro is standing before all three Alliance's leaders and having his last speech. He tells about war, countless dead and injured. He says that he swore to end the war by any means necessary. And so he did. He arranged everything from the start. Leaders were never suppose to die, but to work together and survive Amenos. To remember the days they were warriors, not kings and queens, start to trust each other. Also, he reveals that he wanted to crown new Druid King to create new powerful figure that will change the whole balance of things, be a neutral figure that can help leaders to negotiate. Yes, he made a mistake when he trusted that archdruid. Blood of countless people is on his hands. He is ready for any punishment he deserves. He just begs that leaders continue their peace talks and don't let all the death be in vain.

We leave the room when leaders are starting to think about Bacaro's fate.

Here. Obviously, it's work in progress, just a few raw ideas. But I think that would've been better than Bacaro becoming yet another evil tyrant.

[edited for bashing]

SilverIce58

TaSheen wrote: »

I - don't have any interest in the Daedric War stuff, or Wrothgar. So *shrug*. I'm happy with the last few years personally, excluding Greymoor/The Reach.

There's something for everyone in this game. You have your preferences, I have mine. I've been playing The Elder Scrolls since Arena released in 1994, so yeah, I have some serious years into this franchise.

I love ESO just the way it is, warts and all. Um. Other than the combat....

So just because you've played through every Elder Scrolls game since Arena, you know more? So have most people, and nobody's using it as their resume. This isn't the same as those games.

Edit: Maybe you should spend some time playing through the Daedric War and the Wrothgar storylines. You might learn what good stories are in comparison.

Oakenaxe

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

[snip]

There is spoiler alert in topic title, so I won't tag spoiler tag almost whole post, but I warn about it - there will a lot of spoilers:

1. There are something like 6-7 main quests which means that they are always rushed. I barely know names of people and there is final already. It was ridicoulous at Magus revealing identity, when he asked me if I know who is he (what a Scooby Doo moment!). Dude, I saw you only once at party, talked to you for 20 seconds (similiar thing for other noble dudes and dudinesses), so don't expect that I will some big conclucions at this stage. I barely started this adventure and you talk to me like some old arch-nemesis...

2. For many last dlc's first main quest have same structure - go to 3 places and gather some crap or look for something. It only shows how schematic it was. Same thing for evil groups and saving the world. This year was supposed to be more grounded and less about saving the world but at the end of course there was threat for whole Tamriel, again!

3. High Isle was PERFECT opportunity to make some "Game of thrones" plotline with politics, conspiracies, fighting for money and power, etc. Such a waste...

4. I don't know why, but this is most "strong woman" chapter ever. Normally I don't see a problem with this, but this year was ridicolous. Almost all important man are traitors, idiots, jesters or becames dead meat, with maybe only one exception for noble guy from Vastyr. In another side we have whole bunch of smart, strong and goodwill woman - druids, castle commanders, knights, Lady Arabelle, nobles, player companions, side quests characters, etc. Geez, it was like 1 good man for every 9 awesome woman.

5. Poison wine plot at the end, geez... it was so... I don't have words for it. First thing - so smart Lady Arabelle drink wine from ANONYMOUS fan, when there is Ascendand Order thread still going on. She should be more cautious in danger times, right? But best thing cames later. Bacaro tried to frame noble lady into poisoining and it almost works, but with his genius mind he also wanted to poison her with same wine, which was proof of her innocence and also bring us to his direction! And of course there is a journal in his evil lair where he reveal all his plans. Oh, a journal reveal [snip] and it's used A LOT in this game.

I wish some day to see more mature stories, for now it's PG-13 level, which reminds me all these superhero movies form Marvel and DC (of which I'm tired, because I want to experience somethng more than another fast-food story for kids)

Agreed! This childish "disney/marvel" vibe is exactly what I felt from this chapter. How did we get from Wrothgar/Clockwork City/Summerset to this? I sincerely hope they are taking notes from what people have been saying about the current writing. I have been very disappointed with the way ESO is going, and a lot of people feel the same. I hope things get better next year, right now I just don't feel motivated with this game.

[edited to remove quote]

TiaFrye

Oakenaxe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

[snip]

There is spoiler alert in topic title, so I won't tag spoiler tag almost whole post, but I warn about it - there will a lot of spoilers:

1. There are something like 6-7 main quests which means that they are always rushed. I barely know names of people and there is final already. It was ridicoulous at Magus revealing identity, when he asked me if I know who is he (what a Scooby Doo moment!). Dude, I saw you only once at party, talked to you for 20 seconds (similiar thing for other noble dudes and dudinesses), so don't expect that I will some big conclucions at this stage. I barely started this adventure and you talk to me like some old arch-nemesis...

2. For many last dlc's first main quest have same structure - go to 3 places and gather some crap or look for something. It only shows how schematic it was. Same thing for evil groups and saving the world. This year was supposed to be more grounded and less about saving the world but at the end of course there was threat for whole Tamriel, again!

3. High Isle was PERFECT opportunity to make some "Game of thrones" plotline with politics, conspiracies, fighting for money and power, etc. Such a waste...

4. I don't know why, but this is most "strong woman" chapter ever. Normally I don't see a problem with this, but this year was ridicolous. Almost all important man are traitors, idiots, jesters or becames dead meat, with maybe only one exception for noble guy from Vastyr. In another side we have whole bunch of smart, strong and goodwill woman - druids, castle commanders, knights, Lady Arabelle, nobles, player companions, side quests characters, etc. Geez, it was like 1 good man for every 9 awesome woman.

5. Poison wine plot at the end, geez... it was so... I don't have words for it. First thing - so smart Lady Arabelle drink wine from ANONYMOUS fan, when there is Ascendand Order thread still going on. She should be more cautious in danger times, right? But best thing cames later. Bacaro tried to frame noble lady into poisoining and it almost works, but with his genius mind he also wanted to poison her with same wine, which was proof of her innocence and also bring us to his direction! And of course there is a journal in his evil lair where he reveal all his plans. Oh, a journal reveal [snip] and it's used A LOT in this game.

I wish some day to see more mature stories, for now it's PG-13 level, which reminds me all these superhero movies form Marvel and DC (of which I'm tired, because I want to experience somethng more than another fast-food story for kids)

Agreed! This childish "disney/marvel" vibe is exactly what I felt from this chapter. How did we get from Wrothgar/Clockwork City/Summerset to this? I sincerely hope they are taking notes from what people have been saying about the current writing. I have been very disappointed with the way ESO is going, and a lot of people feel the same. I hope things get better next year, right now I just don't feel motivated with this game.

I mean they literally pulled out Endgame portal arrival sequence for Deadlands epilogue when people started comparing Summerset to Infinity War because of build up.
Saddest thing is there were no real friends on arrival, even Fyr and Valsirenn having quests didn't came.

[edited to remove quote]

kind_hero

I am glad that am not the only one feeling the same like those who commented in this thread. I am always interested in the main quest in MMOs or RPG styled games, because, most of the times, the developers take a lot of care to create that story. Many times, the game is shaped by the main quest, because the devs have to create specific places or events.

To me, the plot this year was a Scooby Doo style twist, like guess who is under that mask? This poor writting has became an issue for several years. I agree, why this love for stereotypical conquer the world villains? And jurnal reveals!

One thing that makes fantasy so fascinating is that it stems from mythology, which is like an early form of history. Why are we fascinated with the ancient peoples? Not only because of what we know about them, but because of what we do not know! That is what makes us wonder. What really happened, who was there, how many died at Troy?

Same goes for fantasy. Let people wonder and speculate, like we do in the case of the dwemer. We don't know what happened, they are this mystery.

Raz's quest is one that was ruined for me, because of the ending. I was really excited to see Varen's hoard. What did he put away, what clues did he left about his intentions, that kind of things. Instead we got to kill a miniboss just because she turned evil. Not saying why. There was no treasure to be seen, just kill the miniboss mob, collapse the cavern, that's it. It doesn't let the player with a mystery, like in a scenario where you get to see the treasure, but it's cursed. Next, it let's you wonder why Raz, a senior ranking agent of the Dominion would not secure the treasure for his alliance? He can't know how the talks would end.

I picked this example to show that ZOS is good at doing fun short quests, like saving cursed NPCs, but cuts corners when having to create a more elaborate story. Besides, I think that for the main quest there should be different writers, maybe turn to people who are known for engaging original stories.

Eric_Prince

kind_hero wrote: »

I picked this example to show that ZOS is good at doing fun short quests, like saving cursed NPCs, but cuts corners when having to create a more elaborate story. Besides, I think that for the main quest there should be different writers, maybe turn to people who are known for engaging original stories.

I can add a good example of a 'fun short quest' just from Firesong itself. The one in the maormer camp, who found an ancient druid relic which makes everyone... well, horny as hell. It's fun, silly and actually good. Which just proves your point.

Leave current ZOS writers with this kind of stuff, they're good at it! But for the main quest - return people who created Summerset for instance! I mean, Earl Leythen... what a man.

Dr_Con

It's the storyboarding that needs work, the writers are great but they are told to write/work around bad ideas, and you have to consider what the characters would say.

Also they have to treat the vestige like a big dumb dumb because there are people who move onto other things and come back and have zero context of what to do. In the Fargrave quests Lyranth actually grew more and more annoyed when you explored these options, but little Ms. I'm-Not-Investigator-Vale just smiles at you like a kindergarten teacher as she tells you everything you've done up to that point.

Miragent

I find ESO writing very mature and wise, both the serious and the comedy writing, especially in the older zones. I feel it somewhat captures TES 3 Morrowind vibe with TES 4 Oblivionlike presentation, but with a modern or in base game case sometimes ahead of time twist. Not necessarily always because of grimness (but that too contributes), wokeness or what people typically consider "mature" aka cringe topics, but because of their take on the explored topics. As I was questing, I would often exclaim to myself in awe: wow, those writers have seen some serious ***! Lately though, while (micro)writing remains great, it's often become snarky, judgemental, sarcastic, it no longer allows the player to think, form opinion and pass the verdict, whether in the quest dialogues or just in their own mind, it seems so biased. Maybe it's because writers are people too TM, and, as they age and see and maybe even experience more and more ***, they grow sarcastic, and it shows? At the same time, stories and storytelling lately become more and more cartoonish and, well, crowncraty? Apexmounty? Not sure if it's the creative choice or business decision. But I'm not upset or care much for the quality of main stories and plots. Traditionally main quest lines of TES games are way weaker than side quests and quest lines (except Morrowind), so in my book they're just keeping the tradition alive. Truly, side quests is where it's all at, in base game, older zones and the newer releases alike. People are missing out so much when they ignore those, as they chase skill points from main stories.

Not sure what I'm missing, am I blind? I loved everything about High Isle - the zone, main plot, side quests, NPCs. My only complaint is that it seemed too small and short for a chapter. And the creepy donuts. I haven't played Firesong yet though.

Mofasa

My personal view on the quality of the stories and how hard the main quests will be is going to continue to "decline". It will be more linear and easier to do the main story line.
Why?
Because there are many players today that are complaining that things are to hard, just look at the main page of the 'General ESO Discussion' and you will see several posts saying it's to hard to do this or to find that.
These players might leave eso if they can't find this or solve that, and eso will then lose customers.
We, who like having some challenges, will most likely stay even if the game becomes way too easy for us.

So one of the reasons eso is doing the quests and puzzles to easy is to keep as many customers as possible.
The other reason is that it's more easy for the devs to make simple linear story lines and puzzles..
Easy coding will result in fewer bugs.. just imagine the amount of bugs we would have if the quests had multiple ending depending on what "I" said to the NPC or if the puzzle is much more complex...

[snip]
[edited for conspiracy theory/misinformation]