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Templar underperforming

  • gariondavey
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    Circling back to not let this thread die.

    I suspect that the PTS is right around the corner. Hopefully it contains the needed fix to backlash and it's respective morphs

    Yes, and hopefully a fix to jabs/sweeps as well.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • mmtaniac
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    Yup this post must live plar need justice.
  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    Templars will be in the bottom with the devs focus on a new class. We may even see damage adjustment against us for Radiant Glory/Oppression. Templars do need love but I don't see it coming with the up coming updates.

  • TechMaybeHic
    TechMaybeHic
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    I think it's probably more goal aligned to make others start searching for a new class rather than get Templars satisfied with theirs
  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    Devs adjusted Burning Light and Purifying Light/Power of Light due to the high burst potential that templars had. The burst potential was based on the using Purifying Light or Power of Light first to get 10% spell damage buff, followed up by puncutre sweep or biting jabs, hitting the target within a set window would make burning light go off, and finally Purifying Light or Power of Light would explode and do a good amount of damage.

    NB are now the new templars in PVP for killing targets with burst damage. The difference is NB can do it range, land critical hits more often, better buffs, and can easily hide/run away.

    At least when Templar was a good melee bursting damage dealer NB had some niche builds for damage dealers which at least aligned to the NB class identity. Templars don't have the class identity right now, instead the class is now the holy damage dealer of afar. LOL...
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
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    I for one won't care if they touch plar anymore so long as Backlash just actually works. I'm confident they won't touch burning light or jabs, but atleast let the delayed burst ability do something more than 3k in pvp.

    I've had friends hit no higher than about 4k with 12,000 spell dmg in pvp. What more do they need to do just to make this right?
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • TechMaybeHic
    TechMaybeHic
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    I for one won't care if they touch plar anymore so long as Backlash just actually works. I'm confident they won't touch burning light or jabs, but atleast let the delayed burst ability do something more than 3k in pvp.

    I've had friends hit no higher than about 4k with 12,000 spell dmg in pvp. What more do they need to do just to make this right?

    Yeah, jabs isn't THAT bad right now, it's just not great. I keep saying POTL was the really overnerf. I'm hopeful because I think the new mechanic just didn't mesh with battle spirit and they didn't anticipate that.
  • Turtle_Bot
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    I for one won't care if they touch plar anymore so long as Backlash just actually works. I'm confident they won't touch burning light or jabs, but atleast let the delayed burst ability do something more than 3k in pvp.

    I've had friends hit no higher than about 4k with 12,000 spell dmg in pvp. What more do they need to do just to make this right?

    Yeah, jabs isn't THAT bad right now, it's just not great. I keep saying POTL was the really overnerf. I'm hopeful because I think the new mechanic just didn't mesh with battle spirit and they didn't anticipate that.

    Honestly, this could be said about so many of the nerfs and buffs that have happened to a lot of the classes lately. They just don't properly account for the interactions with battle spirit when adjusting skills, hence why a softer touch and not a sledge hammer approach is always needed when adjusting skill values.
  • Udrath
    Udrath
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    Burning light was like 5k for me pre nerf, and my combo was backlash into blazing spear/sweep/stun into jabs to get a alot of burning light procs.

    Now they changed it so it procs off all damage not just Aedric abilities which is nice, but It’s kinda crap now. And it doesn’t help all DOTs are garbage damage now too. A least blazing spear initial damage still hits decent
  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    I played my Warden for a bit this weekend. The Stamina Warden is better than a magplar or a stamplar was a year ago.

    Bird of Prey provides speed increase, soft CC Immunity and minor Berserk.
    Betty provides cleanse with Major Brutality/Sorcery
    Arctic Blas provides a good heal, HoT and does a hard CC and soft CC,
    Deep Fissure provides damage equal to our jabs in its first hit and provides major and minor breach.
    Frost Cloak last 5 seconds longer and provides minor protection
    Each animal companion ability slotted provides an increase in critical damage/healing.
    Minor Toughness on a heal

    After playing on my Stamden for about an hour this weekend I got on my Stamplar. I forgot to make some immovable pots which greatly hinder my Templar After 5 minutes I swapped to my support role on my Templar.

    I couldn't do much on my Templar unless I played range and most fights ended up melee with me being dead. Race against time didn't seem to work against a warden or DK roots. Than there was the healing issue where my BoL didn't hit me but hit other players causing my death or more wasted resources to get the heal. When I was under DoT pressure I again had to waste resources on ritual. It wasn't fun being on my Templar this weekend.

    When I was able to play range I got one kill before I was overrun and killed in melee range. Templar just isn't fun anymore to play.
  • Mansquito
    Mansquito
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    Templar has been gutted to the point where they may as well remove the class entirely. At least with regards to PvP.

    Power of the Light is pathetic and don't get me started on Purifying Light, it's completely obsolete. I've tried stacking spell damage to see what number I can hit with the *clears throat* 'burst' and it is hilariously bad. ~8k spell dmg results in a burst of between 2 and 4k, 4k if I am lucky. I've tried with crit builds and a mix of the two, completely offensive set up every time and it does nothing.

    We're slow, pathetically weak, kind of squidgy due to having to run all offense, and just offer nothing, no group utility and no solo ability. We're 3rd best healers, we're last in the line for damage output, we're not even close to being top tier for tanks. We've been relegated to a back of the zerg Jesus beam bot who's only utility is providing minor sorcery to your allies and maybe offering a Solar Prison.

    [snip]

    [Edited for Bashing]
    Edited by Psiion on February 6, 2023 4:15AM
  • TechMaybeHic
    TechMaybeHic
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    Mansquito wrote: »
    Templar has been gutted to the point where they may as well remove the class entirely. At least with regards to PvP.

    Power of the Light is pathetic and don't get me started on Purifying Light, it's completely obsolete. I've tried stacking spell damage to see what number I can hit with the *clears throat* 'burst' and it is hilariously bad. ~8k spell dmg results in a burst of between 2 and 4k, 4k if I am lucky. I've tried with crit builds and a mix of the two, completely offensive set up every time and it does nothing.

    We're slow, pathetically weak, kind of squidgy due to having to run all offense, and just offer nothing, no group utility and no solo ability. We're 3rd best healers, we're last in the line for damage output, we're not even close to being top tier for tanks. We've been relegated to a back of the zerg Jesus beam bot who's only utility is providing minor sorcery to your allies and maybe offering a Solar Prison.

    [snip]

    [Edited for Bashing]

    Yeah... we have some bad news about that...
    Edited by Psiion on February 6, 2023 4:15AM
  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    Mansquito wrote: »
    Templar has been gutted to the point where they may as well remove the class entirely. At least with regards to PvP.

    Power of the Light is pathetic and don't get me started on Purifying Light, it's completely obsolete. I've tried stacking spell damage to see what number I can hit with the *clears throat* 'burst' and it is hilariously bad. ~8k spell dmg results in a burst of between 2 and 4k, 4k if I am lucky. I've tried with crit builds and a mix of the two, completely offensive set up every time and it does nothing.

    We're slow, pathetically weak, kind of squidgy due to having to run all offense, and just offer nothing, no group utility and no solo ability. We're 3rd best healers, we're last in the line for damage output, we're not even close to being top tier for tanks. We've been relegated to a back of the zerg Jesus beam bot who's only utility is providing minor sorcery to your allies and maybe offering a Solar Prison.

    [snip]

    [Edited for Bashing]

    Yeah... we have some bad news about that...

    You mean the further nerf to purifying light. LOL...

    As for balance just go look at my list of buffs and debuff for Templar vs DK. It is easy to see why Templar fall behind. What DK offer are similar to what you get with a Warden and NB.

    Sorc, Templar and Necro are missing a few buffs.

    For Templar and Necro its access to major sorcery/brutality through a class ability for both Stamina and Magika resources. Right now templars only have it through Biting jabs and it last only 10 seconds. What a joke.

    For Sorc, Templar and Necro is other buffs such as berserker, expedition, etc...

    For Templar and Sorc we lack good debuffs.

    DK are a do it all type of class right now. Good healing, strong defensive tools, good CC, good resource management tools, great buffs and debuffs. It is why they are so good in PVP. Same can be said for NB and Wardens.

    Templars were good in PVP not because of the buffs or debuffs we had. It was because of the higher damage and healing we had from our abilities. With those being lowered templar felt the adjustments moreso than say a DK would due to a lack of buffs and debuffs available to the templar class.

    So what we got is a bigger decrease in damage and healing potential. Yet devs are like DK don't need two abilities with empower here so we will give you major berserk. :(


    Edited by Psiion on February 6, 2023 4:15AM
  • TechMaybeHic
    TechMaybeHic
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    Mansquito wrote: »
    Templar has been gutted to the point where they may as well remove the class entirely. At least with regards to PvP.

    Power of the Light is pathetic and don't get me started on Purifying Light, it's completely obsolete. I've tried stacking spell damage to see what number I can hit with the *clears throat* 'burst' and it is hilariously bad. ~8k spell dmg results in a burst of between 2 and 4k, 4k if I am lucky. I've tried with crit builds and a mix of the two, completely offensive set up every time and it does nothing.

    We're slow, pathetically weak, kind of squidgy due to having to run all offense, and just offer nothing, no group utility and no solo ability. We're 3rd best healers, we're last in the line for damage output, we're not even close to being top tier for tanks. We've been relegated to a back of the zerg Jesus beam bot who's only utility is providing minor sorcery to your allies and maybe offering a Solar Prison.

    [snip]

    [Edited for Bashing]

    Yeah... we have some bad news about that...

    You mean the further nerf to purifying light. LOL...

    As for balance just go look at my list of buffs and debuff for Templar vs DK. It is easy to see why Templar fall behind. What DK offer are similar to what you get with a Warden and NB.

    Sorc, Templar and Necro are missing a few buffs.

    For Templar and Necro its access to major sorcery/brutality through a class ability for both Stamina and Magika resources. Right now templars only have it through Biting jabs and it last only 10 seconds. What a joke.

    For Sorc, Templar and Necro is other buffs such as berserker, expedition, etc...

    For Templar and Sorc we lack good debuffs.

    DK are a do it all type of class right now. Good healing, strong defensive tools, good CC, good resource management tools, great buffs and debuffs. It is why they are so good in PVP. Same can be said for NB and Wardens.

    Templars were good in PVP not because of the buffs or debuffs we had. It was because of the higher damage and healing we had from our abilities. With those being lowered templar felt the adjustments moreso than say a DK would due to a lack of buffs and debuffs available to the templar class.

    So what we got is a bigger decrease in damage and healing potential. Yet devs are like DK don't need two abilities with empower here so we will give you major berserk. :(


    No, I mean with the glyphs now hyridized for damage; minor sorcery is no longer needed if you get minor brutality from a DK
    Edited by Psiion on February 6, 2023 4:16AM
  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    Mansquito wrote: »
    Templar has been gutted to the point where they may as well remove the class entirely. At least with regards to PvP.

    Power of the Light is pathetic and don't get me started on Purifying Light, it's completely obsolete. I've tried stacking spell damage to see what number I can hit with the *clears throat* 'burst' and it is hilariously bad. ~8k spell dmg results in a burst of between 2 and 4k, 4k if I am lucky. I've tried with crit builds and a mix of the two, completely offensive set up every time and it does nothing.

    We're slow, pathetically weak, kind of squidgy due to having to run all offense, and just offer nothing, no group utility and no solo ability. We're 3rd best healers, we're last in the line for damage output, we're not even close to being top tier for tanks. We've been relegated to a back of the zerg Jesus beam bot who's only utility is providing minor sorcery to your allies and maybe offering a Solar Prison.

    [snip]

    [Edited for Bashing]

    Yeah... we have some bad news about that...

    You mean the further nerf to purifying light. LOL...

    As for balance just go look at my list of buffs and debuff for Templar vs DK. It is easy to see why Templar fall behind. What DK offer are similar to what you get with a Warden and NB.

    Sorc, Templar and Necro are missing a few buffs.

    For Templar and Necro its access to major sorcery/brutality through a class ability for both Stamina and Magika resources. Right now templars only have it through Biting jabs and it last only 10 seconds. What a joke.

    For Sorc, Templar and Necro is other buffs such as berserker, expedition, etc...

    For Templar and Sorc we lack good debuffs.

    DK are a do it all type of class right now. Good healing, strong defensive tools, good CC, good resource management tools, great buffs and debuffs. It is why they are so good in PVP. Same can be said for NB and Wardens.

    Templars were good in PVP not because of the buffs or debuffs we had. It was because of the higher damage and healing we had from our abilities. With those being lowered templar felt the adjustments moreso than say a DK would due to a lack of buffs and debuffs available to the templar class.

    So what we got is a bigger decrease in damage and healing potential. Yet devs are like DK don't need two abilities with empower here so we will give you major berserk. :(


    No, I mean with the glyphs now hyridized for damage; minor sorcery is no longer needed if you get minor brutality from a DK

    Spell / Weapon Damage at this point don't really matter given the changes. The only big difference now will be the resource you want to add for recovery.
    Edited by Psiion on February 6, 2023 4:16AM
  • Minno
    Minno
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    it's a shame to see such a push to hybridization instead of a more niche designed set of specs/weapon combos.

    Games lose their souls during these transitions.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • kyatos_binarini
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    surely class with the best (i would say OP) executable in the game needs a damage buff. not necros or sorcerers
  • Neoauspex
    Neoauspex
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    surely class with the best (i would say OP) executable in the game needs a damage buff. not necros or sorcerers

    Sorc execute is by far the best execute in PvP
  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    Neoauspex wrote: »
    surely class with the best (i would say OP) executable in the game needs a damage buff. not necros or sorcerers

    Sorc execute is by far the best execute in PvP

    I don't think so personally, it has its merits that it can be timed with burst but its also dodgeable I belive and doesn't ramp up all that well compared to other executes
  • TechMaybeHic
    TechMaybeHic
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    Neoauspex wrote: »
    surely class with the best (i would say OP) executable in the game needs a damage buff. not necros or sorcerers

    Sorc execute is by far the best execute in PvP

    I don't think so personally, it has its merits that it can be timed with burst but its also dodgeable I belive and doesn't ramp up all that well compared to other executes

    The positive of sorcs execute is you can pre cast before they hit execute range so then provide your own means to get them into that range and it works.

    The problem with Templars execute is you have to get their health down, but then when you hit it; there is a slight delay before it goes off where you could miss it. The thing is, rather than make it more responsive, they buffed the multiplier through the roof to where their health pool doesn't have to be very low. It's why it shines more from the back of a group or otherwise having pressure maintained while you hit it.

    It's stupid, but doesn't change the fact of where Templar stands. I mean I could dismiss sorc and Necro because they have actual delayed burst that at least works when it does do damage, but that would take a massive amount of bias
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