Cadwell’s Silver—Why?

Quenzar

This quest to play through all the other factions’ quest lines seems like a bad idea. Why would I make an alt now?

SeaGtGruff

In the past, I've seen players in guild chats say that they skip the Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests, but if I'm not mistaken you can get Skill Points by completing zone questlines, so I think that's a good reason to do them.

On the other hand, I've also seen forum members say that there are more than enough Skill Points in the game from a variety of sources, such that there might not be much of a need for you to seek out additional Skill Points from things like skyshards, zone questlines, dungeon quests, etc.-- that is to say, depending on how many you've acquired from your preferred sources, it might not be necessary to acquire more from other sources that you feel disinclined to pursue.

So, as with so many things in this game-- to each their own. Personally, I've enjoyed doing Cadwell's Silver and Gold on my two mains, and feel like it's given them a better understanding of the citizens, soldiers, and leaders of each alliance. But attacking, and being attacked by, soldiers from one's own alliance can feel pretty awkward, to say the least.

Quenzar

I’m definitely not hurting for skill points. I have more than I can use. I think I have like 13 of them now with full bars on both sides and no available upgrades to passives atm.

What bothers me about Cadwell’s Silver is the fact that I’ve already started the other faction quest lines on other characters and am at varying degrees of completion.

Now to have a quest pop up that makes me do them over again and throw off my progress on my other characters is…disorienting to say the least.

I feel like I have to abandon the character I’m working on now, go play “legit” through the faction quests on their respective characters, and then come back and bulldoze my way through on this character jus my to finish the quest.

I don’t understand how the minds behind a game that is otherwise so narratively excellent and cohesive could have have thought this was a good idea.

Snamyap

And not everybody enjoys playing alts.

SeaGtGruff

Well, some players have a strong desire for completionism in TES games, and will try to do all of the content regardless of how much sense it makes to their characters' backstories and personalities.

Other players have a strong desire to avoid any content that they aren't comfortable with-- such as the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild questlines-- or that seems to go against their characters' backstories and personalities.

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

Quenzar

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

FluffyBird

If you don't want to do those quests - don't, no one is forcing you. Your personal inability to ignore a quest marker doesn't make the availability of that quest a bad decision.

dmnqwk

I did Cadwell's Silver and Gold on my main because I like skill points
Silver offers a motif design
Gold offers some pot on your head
Both offer me skill points so that my main, my crafter, doesn't have to waste an armory slot messing about just to craft.
I have the usual 120 odd skill points required to run a build, plus the 150 needed for crafting, plus scrying/excavation and other lines with full passives on the same char.

I'm on about 450 skill points atm, just need 9 more story and then 40 from alliance rank to max out skill points. I do have about 60 spare, so I think 400 would cover everything if you wanted to craft on your main plus do everything else.

SeaGtGruff

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

I don't think Cadwell pops up anywhere, does he? I mean, as far as I remember he stays put inside the Harborage-- which you should have no reason to reenter once you've completed the Main Quest in your character's chosen alliance. Are you seeing him pop up somewhere else? I mean, I guess he does reappear for certain chapter questlines-- but does he bring up Cadwell's Silver and Gold during those reappearances?

tmbrinks

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

It's that way, because when the game originally launched, you were only able to see/play with other players of your specific faction.

Your faction was the 0-50 leveling area. Cadwell's silver was the VR1-VR5 leveling areas (and mobs were leveled to these through the 5 zones). Cadwell's gold was the VR6-VR10 leveling area. Craglorn was VR11-12. Eventually One-tamriel came, battle leveled everything and opened it up so you could see all 3 factions at the same time in the same zones.

Also... characters used to be individual, with nothing shared (outside of gear and such), then CP was introduced that was accountwide... then the achievements were, and now our accounts are really just 1 character with 18 personalities. So I can see how this would be confusing doing it today, but at one time it actually made sense.

There's also a unique style you learn upon completing Cadwell's silver... and a "hat" you get when completing Cadwell's Gold.

Quenzar

FluffyBird wrote: »

If you don't want to do those quests - don't, no one is forcing you. Your personal inability to ignore a quest marker doesn't make the availability of that quest a bad decision

From a narrative design standpoint it does though. It kills any replay value for alts which is central to MMO’s and it forces your character—who is already committed to a faction—to go through and literally play for their enemies.

And this quest unlocks before one has even probably finished their own faction’s story.

It’s entirely nonsensical from any perspective other than wanting the rewards, in which case, I’d appreciate the option to abandon it until I’m ready.

Quenzar

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

I don't think Cadwell pops up anywhere, does he? I mean, as far as I remember he stays put inside the Harborage-- which you should have no reason to reenter once you've completed the Main Quest in your character's chosen alliance. Are you seeing him pop up somewhere else? I mean, I guess he does reappear for certain chapter questlines-- but does he bring up Cadwell's Silver and Gold during those reappearances?

He shows up any time you get near the Harborage int he same place that the Prophet used to.

SeaGtGruff

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

I don't think Cadwell pops up anywhere, does he? I mean, as far as I remember he stays put inside the Harborage-- which you should have no reason to reenter once you've completed the Main Quest in your character's chosen alliance. Are you seeing him pop up somewhere else? I mean, I guess he does reappear for certain chapter questlines-- but does he bring up Cadwell's Silver and Gold during those reappearances?

He shows up any time you get near the Harborage int he same place that the Prophet used to.

Ah, I don't remember that-- although I did accept his offer when I interacted with him in the Harborage, so I've never been in the position to run into that. It would definitely be annoying; I remember trying to avoid the Prophet and other MQ characters when entering town or visiting the FG or MG.

ChunkyCat

I completed Caldwell’s Silver and gold on three characters. 👁️👄👁️

Hapexamendios

I've done the gold on a few characters just because.

BlueRaven

tmbrinks wrote: »

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

It's that way, because when the game originally launched, you were only able to see/play with other players of your specific faction.

Your faction was the 0-50 leveling area. Cadwell's silver was the VR1-VR5 leveling areas (and mobs were leveled to these through the 5 zones). Cadwell's gold was the VR6-VR10 leveling area. Craglorn was VR11-12. Eventually One-tamriel came, battle leveled everything and opened it up so you could see all 3 factions at the same time in the same zones.

Also... characters used to be individual, with nothing shared (outside of gear and such), then CP was introduced that was accountwide... then the achievements were, and now our accounts are really just 1 character with 18 personalities. So I can see how this would be confusing doing it today, but at one time it actually made sense.

There's also a unique style you learn upon completing Cadwell's silver... and a "hat" you get when completing Cadwell's Gold.

This is correct. Back then I did Caldwells gold on four characters, and I was close to a fifth when one tamriel happened.

Although I have to say we did share a bank with all the characters like we did today.

Quenzar wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So I think it's good that the devs have allowed us to do the questlines for all three alliances on our characters if we want to, without making it a requirement (assuming we don't care about any rewards that we might be missing out on).

I’d agree with that if you could abandon the quest, but you can’t—and if you don’t accept it then Cadwell keeps popping up to pester you until you do.

It’s just such a turn-off and I can’t make any sense out of why it is the way it is.

You do realize there are people who just like to quest, right?

And I t was kind of fun to do high isle on a character that has Caldwells gold. All of the leaders know you, and it felt nice to have isobel with you when you talked with them. It gave me a real sense of accomplishment.

And it’s also nice to be on a character that knows everybody when recurring characters show up again. As opposed to being on an alt that has to go through a “who are you” type dialogue each time, even though as a player I have seen them a lot.

You don’t like Caldwells silver/gold, that is fine. But don’t act like your dislike of it is universal to all players.

kringled_1

Quenzar wrote: »

It’s entirely nonsensical from any perspective other than wanting the rewards, in which case, I’d appreciate the option to abandon it until I’m ready.

It's pretty much entirely ignorable though.
Visiting the harborage isn't common once you're done with the main quest, and in and of itself it doesnt put any markers on the map. I've had my main on gold for 4 years, not actively pursuing it, and I don't think I've run into Cadwell once.

ADarklore

There's nothing forcing you to talk to Cadwell and interact with the light of Meridia inside the harborage after you complete the final MSQ mission. I actually enjoy Silver and Gold because it does allow me to see the 'POV' of the opposing side, and as we get to interact with each leader at various points, it's nice to have some connection to each.

I've always been loyal to the AD, so every character I create is on the AD side... so Silver and Gold are the only ways I get to experience the other alliance quests.

As others have noted, this feature was introduced years ago when there was very little to do after you completed the main story and alliance side quests... so it was a way for players to keep playing the game instead of walking away. Today, there is SO MUCH to do, that it's really not necessary to do Silver and Gold, but for many people like myself, it is still nice to have the option.

FluffyBird

Quenzar wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

If you don't want to do those quests - don't, no one is forcing you. Your personal inability to ignore a quest marker doesn't make the availability of that quest a bad decision

From a narrative design standpoint it does though. It kills any replay value for alts which is central to MMO’s and it forces your character—who is already committed to a faction—to go through and literally play for their enemies.

And this quest unlocks before one has even probably finished their own faction’s story.

It’s entirely nonsensical from any perspective other than wanting the rewards, in which case, I’d appreciate the option to abandon it until I’m ready.

ESO never had much replay value anyway, unless you manage to exercise unimaginable (/s) strength of will and skip some questlines, because there is a handful of moments where you can make a choice and out of those a tiny part has any consequences at all.

Cadwell's questlines even have (albeit a tad cheesy) lore explanation on how and why and when you end up with other alliances. It also can just sit in your journal as long as it needs to.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's only your opinion.

Kiralyn2000

Quenzar wrote: »

Why would I make an alt now?

Because you want to try different playstyles? Same reason people make alts in all sorts of games where you end up playing the same story/quests/etc.
I (and many others) have made piles of alts in MMOs that don't have divergent storylines to play through.

But it's a choice. /shrug

Quenzar wrote: »

From a narrative design standpoint it does though. It kills any replay value for alts which is central to MMO’s and it forces your character—who is already committed to a faction—to go through and literally play for their enemies.

Well, like I said - there's plenty of people who play many characters in MMOs, happily repeating content.

Narratively - well, back before they did the whole One Tamriel/scaling thing, you played through your chosen faction of leveled zones. Then you talked to Cadwell and Azura, who said "let's see what history would have looked like if you washed ashore in a different place!" So, they had a narrative explanation - it's an experience with an alternate timeline, brought about by a Daedric Prince.

Also, in the old leveled-zone system, you needed to play through Silver and Gold in order to level up from lv50 to lv50/Veteran Level 16 (which became CP 160 in One Tamriel's champion point system).


As for "forced to play for their enemies" - you realize that under the current scaled system, the instant you go to one of the other faction zones, they (and the local quests) are treating you as the local faction hero, right? This isn't like a 'proper' mutli-faction game, where if you take your Orc to an Alliance Zone, they locals try to kill you. If you're Daggerfall Covenant, and you go to a zone where the story has DC as the invaders, any DC npcs you run into will be hostile to you and attack. There's no narrative stability in the modern game - you can just back, forth, and sideways in the timeline and storyline just by going between wayshrines.


But again, nothing is "forcing" you to do anything.

DMuehlhausen

Quenzar wrote: »

This quest to play through all the other factions’ quest lines seems like a bad idea. Why would I make an alt now?

This was a ploy they used because they had no real end game when the game launched. So they made you play through the game 3 full times to hit max level. It was a different time with Veteran Ranks. The first play through would get you to about 48 or so. Then you would quickly hit Veteran Rank 1. Earn about 1 rank / zone to the max at launch i believe of VR14.

No I agree it's annoying and poor design and is why I stopped playing the first time I finished my factions story. I started going through the AD line. Running to I believe Southpoint in Grahtwood and said this is dumb and logged off and didn't come back till 1T launched.

MJ202

My from the beginning of ESO primary has completed both Caldwell's Silver and Gold. I have all the skill sets I want for this character filled out and refined. At the moment, I have about 72 unallocated skill points on her.

To be honest, this character does not include a full set of filled out crafting skills. I have another character which I built to focus on crafting, treasure maps, and harvesting. This second, "primary" character carries enough combat related skills to help him survive in the wilds while harvesting. He currently has a surplus of about 12 skill points.

As others mentioned, if you want to try other skill sets and builds, there are a multitude of sources for gaining skill points to build them up

tmbrinks

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Quenzar wrote: »

This quest to play through all the other factions’ quest lines seems like a bad idea. Why would I make an alt now?

This was a ploy they used because they had no real end game when the game launched. So they made you play through the game 3 full times to hit max level. It was a different time with Veteran Ranks. The first play through would get you to about 48 or so. Then you would quickly hit Veteran Rank 1. Earn about 1 rank / zone to the max at launch i believe of VR14.

No I agree it's annoying and poor design and is why I stopped playing the first time I finished my factions story. I started going through the AD line. Running to I believe Southpoint in Grahtwood and said this is dumb and logged off and didn't come back till 1T launched.

I think it was actually V10 at launch. Through Lower Craglorn it went through V12 for sure (the original versions of Vet Aetherian Archive and Hel-Ra Citadel were at V12 difficulty). Sanctum Ophidia was added with Upper Craglorn, and raised the cap to V14 (and was scaled to such), Dragonstar Arena was at V13 for "normal" and V14 for Vet. I had an old V13 (CP130) version of the lightning staff in BiS trait from running it on normal (long before transmutation).

When Imperial City was added that increased it to V16 (and was the only place to get rubedite level gear/materials either from trading tel-var or deconning drops).

When Maw of Lorkhaj trial launched, you could actually scale it based on the "leader" of the group so there was such as thing as running "Baby Maw" where you had a level 10 character set the difficulty of the instance.

When Wrothgar dropped, it was the first "battle-leveled" zone, so the materials dropped were at your level, the mobs were scaled to your level, and everybody could "play" together there.

They then used that as the template when they launched One-Tamriel, applying the battle scaling to all zones.

JKorr

Way back in the beginning, people wanted to be able to do all the factions, but did not want to make an alt. So ZOS, who never ever listens to players according to some people, created Cadwell's Silver and Gold. Your original character didn't have to switch factions to do the main faction quests for the other two you didn't pick at first.

I've done or am in the process of doing Silver and Gold for all 18 characters on one account, and 7 on my second. I also do not grind anchors or undead to level fast because simply doing the quests works for me.

DMuehlhausen

JKorr wrote: »

Way back in the beginning, people wanted to be able to do all the factions, but did not want to make an alt. So ZOS, who never ever listens to players according to some people, created Cadwell's Silver and Gold. Your original character didn't have to switch factions to do the main faction quests for the other two you didn't pick at first.

I've done or am in the process of doing Silver and Gold for all 18 characters on one account, and 7 on my second. I also do not grind anchors or undead to level fast because simply doing the quests works for me.

No, Cadwell's was in the game at launch. Had nothing to do with people not wanting to create alts. Not even sure there was a major update before I got there and stopped playing. No that was a design from the very beginning.

whitecrow

Back when I did Silver and Gold, I had no intention of creating more characters. I appreciated the point of view of the other factions.

Tandor

ADarklore wrote: »

There's nothing forcing you to talk to Cadwell and interact with the light of Meridia inside the harborage after you complete the final MSQ mission. I actually enjoy Silver and Gold because it does allow me to see the 'POV' of the opposing side, and as we get to interact with each leader at various points, it's nice to have some connection to each.

I've always been loyal to the AD, so every character I create is on the AD side... so Silver and Gold are the only ways I get to experience the other alliance quests.

As others have noted, this feature was introduced years ago when there was very little to do after you completed the main story and alliance side quests... so it was a way for players to keep playing the game instead of walking away. Today, there is SO MUCH to do, that it's really not necessary to do Silver and Gold, but for many people like myself, it is still nice to have the option.

I think it was originally more to do with the fact that if you only played one character then you only got to see and do one third of the game. In order to play the whole game you had to have three characters. That caused so much unrest in Beta that ZOS hastily introduced Cadwell's quests to allow full access to the game on a single character.

wolfie1.0.

Quenzar wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

If you don't want to do those quests - don't, no one is forcing you. Your personal inability to ignore a quest marker doesn't make the availability of that quest a bad decision

From a narrative design standpoint it does though. It kills any replay value for alts which is central to MMO’s and it forces your character—who is already committed to a faction—to go through and literally play for their enemies.

And this quest unlocks before one has even probably finished their own faction’s story.

It’s entirely nonsensical from any perspective other than wanting the rewards, in which case, I’d appreciate the option to abandon it until I’m ready.

Zos killed the majority of replay value of ESO when they killed character specific achievements.

Quest completion is what remains for specific characters. Be satisfied with it. This is apparently what we ALL wanted.

Blinx

The only thing that really bothers me about Cadwells Silver/Gold is the fact that you have to kill people of your starting faction, I only did this once on my main, because he has to see everything PVE related .

Skill points are in an abundance in this game, so this isn't really required, I'm currently at 165 unused points, and unless we get new skills or something to use them on, they will only grow in number

kaushad

Is it so much to ask to be able to abandon the quest? X, ding and I don't have that arrow pointing to Auridon at all times. And if in a few years time, I change my mind and decide that I would like to commit treason for the experience that I already had with alts and can have my other alts, I can take my character back to the Harborage and speak to Cadwell again.

That that goes for the Hooded Figure too.

How players like it Sorinne Gaerard put the Tales of Tribute starting quest in their journals, whether they wanted it or not?

Amottica

Quenzar wrote: »

This quest to play through all the other factions’ quest lines seems like a bad idea. Why would I make an alt now?

I think the idea was that someone did not have to play an alt to see the other factions. Also, the original design split us into factions where we could not group cross-faction as we can now. Hence, it was best to create all alts in the same alliance as your guild and friends unless wanting to partake in Cyrodiil on different alliance teams.

As for making an alt, it is to play the different classes. They do play a little differently, even though we have access to many of the same skills.