Mara's Balm

neo7185

So is nothing else being done to this set? Are we doomed to spend another cycle with this set making pvp sad?

Lughlongarm

Now its just a very very strong set, but its not broken anymore.

neo7185

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Now its just a very very strong set, but its not broken anymore.

Just because it's not broken anymore doesn't mean it doesn't need a nerf lol. When 70-80% of your routine PvPers are all wearing the same set that's usually a strong indication.

FirmamentOfStars

Its only really useful, if you wear it on the body now. Meaning you sacrifice quite a bit to use it. Also i do not see it that often anymore, a few soloers, who refuse to die use it. But they do not deal damage either. Also I would say, that currently people are more usinh rallying cry than maras balm.

neo7185

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Its only really useful, if you wear it on the body now. Meaning you sacrifice quite a bit to use it. Also i do not see it that often anymore, a few soloers, who refuse to die use it. But they do not deal damage either. Also I would say, that currently people are more usinh rallying cry than maras balm.

No, it's more than useful just running it on the backbar. You can still run bis set-ups easily.

Granted, I'm on xbox and across the board xbox is a bit more "try hard" because the community is smaller. But the stat lines alone, combined with how the refresh works, this set is a problem. The only reason people aren't still complaining about it like they did weeks ago is because they're all now running it lol. Which admittedly I fall into that category now out of necessity.

PDarkBHood

Hello,

It seems this set is great in PVP. Before I 'invest' in this set, how is Mara's Balm in PVE, does it offer any advantages?

Lughlongarm

neo7185 wrote: »

show previous quotes

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Its only really useful, if you wear it on the body now. Meaning you sacrifice quite a bit to use it. Also i do not see it that often anymore, a few soloers, who refuse to die use it. But they do not deal damage either. Also I would say, that currently people are more usinh rallying cry than maras balm.

No, it's more than useful just running it on the backbar. You can still run bis set-ups easily.

Granted, I'm on xbox and across the board xbox is a bit more "try hard" because the community is smaller. But the stat lines alone, combined with how the refresh works, this set is a problem. The only reason people aren't still complaining about it like they did weeks ago is because they're all now running it lol. Which admittedly I fall into that category now out of necessity.

Being very good is not enough, we have like 10 sets which are very stat dense and are being rotated based on Meta.
As a back bar set, It competes with "Rallying Cry"/Alchemist etc.. and you miss on the passive healing.
Don't think I will use it in the upcoming patch but its great for some builds.

Syiccal

I actually use rally on front and mara on back on my plar with balorgs and coil..maras back barred allows me to swap extended ritual for another skill as I can time and use the mara clense by swapping bars alot of the time for a nice heal. While on the defensive the passive heal is still very usefull combined with vigor, rune and HtD.

xDeusEJRx

There are no broken procs in Elder Scrolls Online. Zenimax balanced them a year ago by making them scale off your stat sheet.

React

It is pretty clear that the set needs another adjustment.

The issue before was the lack of a cooldown, but this was addressed. The issue now is that the cooldown on the purge + burst heal mechanic is far too low. With only a 15 second cooldown, this is available far too frequently. When this procs it effectively negates everything that was done to the wearer in the past 6-10 seconds, and makes any semi competent player unkillable without outnumbering them.

It is by far the strongest defensive set in the game, still. While it is okay for it to be the strongest, it still needs to be brought down in power to be nearly in line with the sets that are behind it. This set is hist sap and wyrd tree combined into one, with better proc conditions than both of those sets.

There are two options for fixing this set, while keeping it relevant as one of, if not the strongest defensive set in the game.

1) Increase the cooldown on the purge + burst heal effect to 25-30 seconds. The set will still have the heal over time and the purge+burst heal, but it will be on a longer cooldown so that there is an adequate counterplay window between the "full reset" effect this purge has.

2) Keep the purge on a 15s cooldown and keep the heal over time, but remove the "burst heal" effect from the purge. The set keeps its heal over time and keeps its short duration purge, but loses it's problematic burst heal.

Melzo

This set is strong due to the nerfed dot damage. When a DK puts dot damage on you for 24 seconds and a set resets debuffs every 15 seconds... The advantage of this set is that it gives a different type of protection, unlike armor. I saw a plaar and varden nb penetrating 35-40 armor .... Armor has ceased to be something that gives high protection. Against players with high burst damage, a large amount of armor does not help. Especially with neklens snakes. In a 1 vs 1 battle, the player with burst damage wins even if you have 40k armor. Armor and other old defensive sets have become frankly crap. nerfed and destroyed so many good sets. [snip] I keep gold rings from the Ironblood set in my chest. Protective set from lady thorn. With each update, I throw off the old sets in the chest like ordinary garbage. To impose only new sets and destroy the old ones for which you literally gave money and then sweated to knock out.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

TechMaybeHic

React wrote: »

It is pretty clear that the set needs another adjustment.

The issue before was the lack of a cooldown, but this was addressed. The issue now is that the cooldown on the purge + burst heal mechanic is far too low. With only a 15 second cooldown, this is available far too frequently. When this procs it effectively negates everything that was done to the wearer in the past 6-10 seconds, and makes any semi competent player unkillable without outnumbering them.

It is by far the strongest defensive set in the game, still. While it is okay for it to be the strongest, it still needs to be brought down in power to be nearly in line with the sets that are behind it. This set is hist sap and wyrd tree combined into one, with better proc conditions than both of those sets.

There are two options for fixing this set, while keeping it relevant as one of, if not the strongest defensive set in the game.

1) Increase the cooldown on the purge + burst heal effect to 25-30 seconds. The set will still have the heal over time and the purge+burst heal, but it will be on a longer cooldown so that there is an adequate counterplay window between the "full reset" effect this purge has.

2) Keep the purge on a 15s cooldown and keep the heal over time, but remove the "burst heal" effect from the purge. The set keeps its heal over time and keeps its short duration purge, but loses it's problematic burst heal.

I've seen you out there. YOU need an adjustment. lol

You are right here though. We've gone through offensive proc sets that outperform stat sets and doing offense yourself. Now we are doing healing sets that outperform what stat sets boost active heals and defense combined

Dr_Con

this set probably helps cut down on server load, but limiting heal stacking and removing battle spirit's nerf on HOTs would do more for server health.

DrSlaughtr

Melzo wrote: »

This set is strong due to the nerfed dot damage. When a DK puts dot damage on you for 24 seconds and a set resets debuffs every 15 seconds... The advantage of this set is that it gives a different type of protection, unlike armor. I saw a plaar and varden nb penetrating 35-40 armor .... Armor has ceased to be something that gives high protection. Against players with high burst damage, a large amount of armor does not help. Especially with neklens snakes. In a 1 vs 1 battle, the player with burst damage wins even if you have 40k armor. Armor and other old defensive sets have become frankly crap. nerfed and destroyed so many good sets. [snip] I keep gold rings from the Ironblood set in my chest. Protective set from lady thorn. With each update, I throw off the old sets in the chest like ordinary garbage. To impose only new sets and destroy the old ones for which you literally gave money and then sweated to knock out.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

I get what you're saying but consider this.

A tank's weakness IS burst damage. The ability to hit you hard as hell in under a few seconds overwhelms your defenses and if you're caught slipping, you're dead. It's easy to heal and block through dots.

If your 40k tank tries to stand in front of a NB or DK that can chain together 2 to 4 high burst skills in quick order, odds are good you'll be killed. This is functioning correctly.

The issue with maras is that it tips the balance too far the other way. I can't control that every attack I throw triggers the mara proc, meaning there is no way around it, whether it's the constant heal purge or, worse, they back bar it to sit on their negative effects until they have enough for the massive burst heal right around the corner when they were almost certainly dead.

Necrotech_Master

PDarkBHood wrote: »

Hello,

It seems this set is great in PVP. Before I 'invest' in this set, how is Mara's Balm in PVE, does it offer any advantages?

its effectively not useful in pve as NPCs dont usually apply many status effects

CameraBeardThePirate

Gonna be honest, I think a lot of people are overestimating the amount of players actually running Mara's anymore. I've gotten a handful of whispers saying things along the lines of "nice Mara cheese" and I'm not even wearing it. It's a very strong defensive set, but far from the broken mess it was.

kapachia

ninjagank wrote: »

show previous quotes

Melzo wrote: »

This set is strong due to the nerfed dot damage. When a DK puts dot damage on you for 24 seconds and a set resets debuffs every 15 seconds... The advantage of this set is that it gives a different type of protection, unlike armor. I saw a plaar and varden nb penetrating 35-40 armor .... Armor has ceased to be something that gives high protection. Against players with high burst damage, a large amount of armor does not help. Especially with neklens snakes. In a 1 vs 1 battle, the player with burst damage wins even if you have 40k armor. Armor and other old defensive sets have become frankly crap. nerfed and destroyed so many good sets. [snip] I keep gold rings from the Ironblood set in my chest. Protective set from lady thorn. With each update, I throw off the old sets in the chest like ordinary garbage. To impose only new sets and destroy the old ones for which you literally gave money and then sweated to knock out.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

I get what you're saying but consider this.

A tank's weakness IS burst damage. The ability to hit you hard as hell in under a few seconds overwhelms your defenses and if you're caught slipping, you're dead. It's easy to heal and block through dots.

If your 40k tank tries to stand in front of a NB or DK that can chain together 2 to 4 high burst skills in quick order, odds are good you'll be killed. This is functioning correctly.

The issue with maras is that it tips the balance too far the other way. I can't control that every attack I throw triggers the mara proc, meaning there is no way around it, whether it's the constant heal purge or, worse, they back bar it to sit on their negative effects until they have enough for the massive burst heal right around the corner when they were almost certainly dead.

There are plenty of well known nearly unkillable tanks in NA PC Gray Host that requires more than couple groups to bring down. They exist simply to burn down siege weapons, to troll, and to pull group in for bombers. Even ball groups ignore those guys and move on. So single NB or DK cannot bring them down.

DrSlaughtr

kapachia wrote: »

show previous quotes

ninjagank wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

This set is strong due to the nerfed dot damage. When a DK puts dot damage on you for 24 seconds and a set resets debuffs every 15 seconds... The advantage of this set is that it gives a different type of protection, unlike armor. I saw a plaar and varden nb penetrating 35-40 armor .... Armor has ceased to be something that gives high protection. Against players with high burst damage, a large amount of armor does not help. Especially with neklens snakes. In a 1 vs 1 battle, the player with burst damage wins even if you have 40k armor. Armor and other old defensive sets have become frankly crap. nerfed and destroyed so many good sets. [snip] I keep gold rings from the Ironblood set in my chest. Protective set from lady thorn. With each update, I throw off the old sets in the chest like ordinary garbage. To impose only new sets and destroy the old ones for which you literally gave money and then sweated to knock out.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

I get what you're saying but consider this.

A tank's weakness IS burst damage. The ability to hit you hard as hell in under a few seconds overwhelms your defenses and if you're caught slipping, you're dead. It's easy to heal and block through dots.

If your 40k tank tries to stand in front of a NB or DK that can chain together 2 to 4 high burst skills in quick order, odds are good you'll be killed. This is functioning correctly.

The issue with maras is that it tips the balance too far the other way. I can't control that every attack I throw triggers the mara proc, meaning there is no way around it, whether it's the constant heal purge or, worse, they back bar it to sit on their negative effects until they have enough for the massive burst heal right around the corner when they were almost certainly dead.

There are plenty of well known nearly unkillable tanks in NA PC Gray Host that requires more than couple groups to bring down. They exist simply to burn down siege weapons, to troll, and to pull group in for bombers. Even ball groups ignore those guys and move on. So single NB or DK cannot bring them down.

Well, yes, but that wasn't the conversation.

SPR_of_HA_community

Well - ha players fight tanky players before.

Now we have HA builds nerfed and no HA players in PVP.

It is so good, everybody likes tanky enemy players

mmtaniac

Too many mitigation damage options are in game right now , major, minor prot, vampire ,sea serpent + 33k armor + mara and person can be almost unkillable , maybe good gank can kill that kind person.

Major, minor protection + armor are only balanced defense mechanics other are counter to play as you want definition.
Those stat can be reduced other not.

edward_frigidhands

What does the heal on MB scale with?