Healing Is Out Of Control

sabresandiego_ESO

The game just isn’t very fun because it takes so long to kill anyone who’s receiving heals. Makes the game a slow paced snoozer.

The 10% nerf to resolving vigor is a good move, but it doesn’t change anything for when healers are stalemating fights into absolute boredom

MidniteOwl1913

Healing is so nerfed into the ground that I'm not sure I want to continue with my two healer mains. Maybe you should consider working on your damage skills. Healing is already nerfed!

ChunkyCat

healing in PvP is OP [snip]




*this post brought to you by the patron saint of acronyms
[edited for profanity bypass]

Troodon80

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Healing is so nerfed into the ground that I'm not sure I want to continue with my two healer mains. Maybe you should consider working on your damage skills. Healing is already nerfed!

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding between PvE and PvP here? I'm assuming you're referring to PvE while the original poster is likely referring to PvP?

While healing some PvE end game raids might seem out of reach for a lot of players, espcially the more recent hard modes, healing in PvP is absurd (obviously depending on the build, of which Mara's Balm has added). Echoing Vigor and Resolving Vigor didn't need to be touched (and shouldn't have been touched, to be honest) so far as PvE was concerned, but absolutely understandable for PvP. Similar could happen to Regeneration to prevent so much cross healing for large zergs and ball groups, but would horribly impact PvE in the process. If ZOS listened to half the people with bright ideas on how to fix cross healing in PvP, PvE would be unplayable.

This could simply be achieved via Battle Spirit; however, usually, as soon as a healing reduction is mentioned in relation to Battle Spirit people complain on the forum so little gets done on that end. The problem also comes down to ZOS's wrecking ball approach to changes, which gets understandable push back from the community. Instead of saying "we're adjusting the healing received bonus down by 2%," they say "10%, from 50% to 60% reduction." And then a couple patches later realise the time to kill (TTK) is "too damn high," and adjust the number down by 5% (back down to 55%). Instead of smashing things to pieces each update, they could do small tweaks until they find a nice balance. Increase if from 50% to 52%, look at the numbers over the next three months, and then increase it again if they felt the numbers weren't working out the way they wanted, rinse and repeat.

Additionally, they make these sorts of sweeping changes at the same time as reducing healing from abilities individually, which invariably results in a much more severe reduction to healing than was first, perhaps, intended. Instead of it being a 2% reduction (or a 10% reduction), it ends up with the effect of having a 20%+ reduction (also bearing in mind the difference between healing done and healing received), in similar fashion to the way they broadly nerfed damage in U35 but also changed the trial atronach so that people are "now getting way more damage than before," which is categorically untrue when one considers how many additional buffs the dummy has now compared to before (and that the developer comment for the change explicitly states that numbers may appear inflated). Everything they do skews the results, then they spend a patch or two adjusting stuff back up or down. Not that the outcome itself is hugely different, but the enjoyment factor shifts due to the approach. For example, there have been whole patches where I stopped doing Battlegrounds (I haven't done a Battleground for about a year), and entirely annual cycles or patches where I didn't even enter Cyrodiil or Imperial City due to changes.

If healing in PvE content needed to be addressed, ZOS could simply reduce the amount of damage an enemy deals without directly changing how potent a heal ability actually is. In reality, healing in PvE is based solely on how much incoming damage there is (e.g. why health scaling DoTs are abhorrent and lazy), so the damage factors can be addressed instead of the healing itself.

Dr_Con

this has been discussed many times. I want defile to be more effective, others disagree.

What makes sense and what most players seem to agree on is to nerf the number of sources of radiating regen and vigor stacks to be 2 with battle spirit active. For some reason this suggestion falls on deaf ears.

M0ntie

Healing is NOT OP in PVE. A change to make Vigor and Radiating regen only able to get 2 stacks on one player would be a good general fix for both PVP and PVE. Trials have max 2 healers.

Lalothen

M0ntie wrote: »

A change to make Vigor and Radiating regen only able to get 2 stacks on one player would be a good general fix for both PVP and PVE. Trials have max 2 healers.

Agree for PvP, disagree for PvE.

Stacking HoTs can make a significant difference for groups learning to handle rapid incoming groupwide damage, so limiting the maximum number of stacks per player in PvE would just be needlessly harming that mitigative technique on top of U35's healing changes.

Tommy_The_Gun

In PvP healing seems to be only problematic when it comes to ball groups that can pretty much "zero to 100" 24/7 with pretty much no effort. Some tanky individuals can also have enormous healing potential, but at least they trade sustain & damage for it.

As for the "average joe" zerg surf enjoyer it does not seem to be an issue as they die quite um... "regularly" shall we say.

ChunkyCat

ChunkyCat wrote: »

healing in PvP is OP [snip]




*this post brought to you by the patron saint of acronyms
[edited for profanity bypass]

seriously? I typed the letters A and F. how is that profanity?

Darkstorne

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The game just isn’t very fun because it takes so long to kill anyone who’s receiving heals. Makes the game a slow paced snoozer.

The 10% nerf to resolving vigor is a good move, but it doesn’t change anything for when healers are stalemating fights into absolute boredom

Oh, PVP?

If the guy you're fighting is getting healed so much that your damage is being negated, stop fighting that player and target his pocket healer instead.

BalticBlues

Healing is broken in ESO since DDs became the best healers in spring 2022.
Since this design change, ESO PVP IS BROKEN.

Tanks, DDs and Healers once were designed for a reason.
But In ESO PvP, we now only have DD Tanks with ultimate healing. This is BROKEN BY DESIGN.

For many, many years, ESO was my favorite PVP game.
However, since spring, I am forced to play other games for PvP with roles.

Now that Overwatch2 came out, I almost play nothing else for PvP:
Classes with almost perfect balance where DDs have to sacrifice Healing for Damage.

I still love ESO for the lore, world design and adventure - but PvP HAS BECOME NONSENSE.
Whoever is in charge of ESO PvP 2022 has violated the rules and killed the classic PVP game.

Galiferno

There needs to be a better solution than just healing nerfing even more. Make it part of battle spirit, we don't need even worse healing in vet trials to satisfy solely the pvp community.

Vulkunne

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The game just isn’t very fun because it takes so long to kill anyone who’s receiving heals. Makes the game a slow paced snoozer.

The 10% nerf to resolving vigor is a good move, but it doesn’t change anything for when healers are stalemating fights into absolute boredom

OP thank you for your thoughts on the matter of healing as it relates to PvP Combat.

Allow me to retort.

The experience that my Team and I have had, which includes many fights and heals/deaths that I have witnessed in PvP, indicates that nerfing healing globally any further is not really going to fix anything however it will exasperate healing deficit that we already have. So, not too long ago they nerfed healing globally and made a couple other changes with I believe the intention of tackling the insanely over-powered ball groups which have been known to be problematic to normal gameplay in PvP. Alas, healing was nerfed globally including specific healing nerfs along the way to various healing skills.

The result of these actions have not had any discernable effect on ball groups or elite tanky players that everyone loves to complain about. As stated on here as well as for some of them on their stream, they overcame all of these challenges to their power, specifically in this case healing power. The net effect instead was that solo casuals such as myself, as well as a couple NBs I know, all of us are now hard pressed, on the edge, with our backs up against the wall trying to heal *ourselves* let alone our Team. For example, the resto staff heals were nerfed, Rad Regen is useless, of these morphs Rapid Regen is the only heal still reliable, not as effective as before but it is only one that produces a satisfactory heal. Which is ironic because this morph was in their crosshairs to axe and now the nerf to Regen as well as Vigors has hit us so hard its the only thing worth using from the general heals kit. So in their rage to get at Rapid Regen they killed everything else and most players have said they only use Rapid now.

Additionally, I feel its worth mentioning the concept of healing is sorely overshadowed by the extreme dmg being dished out from things such as Occult Overload, Vicious Death, as well as other heavy hitting sets and damage types. The idea here is while healing traditionally was our second line of defense against damage, with mitigation being the first, now in many instances where groups or large numbers of players are gathered, I'm not certain where to draw the line on healing as its a mere positive effect rather than a traditional solution. I cannot out heal a bomber. I cannot out heal extreme siege damage, even for tall builds. My heals are not reliable against a fast moving ball groups, neither are they reliable against a large number of players. See the rules have changed and there is a larger picture here, one that has over-time worked healing largely out of PvP because no matter how hard I heal people will still die from other things. Death is laughing hard at all of us trying to protect or otherwise save others using heals and so if heals aren't relevant anymore then no need to keep nerfing them.

To close this reply, I'll say there are a couple heals that still work as intended however many of us feel, if they nerf these healing abilities any harder PvP will only be playable by groups and alot of us don't group, there is no need to force us into groups. Ball groups will again, keep on rollin' while everyone else gets the axe. Something has to give and it needs to start by getting away from this culture of blaming healing so much. Healing should only be nerfed again as a last resort because there are many other things that need to be taken into account first and potentially explained as to why the fix isn't inclusive to other skills yet healing alone with the focus. Yet, with the state of the game all things considered heals themselves aren't entirely relevant or reliable so I would severely question as well as be somewhat suspicious of any agenda seeking a broader nerf to healing abilities.

Skullstachio

Lalothen wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

A change to make Vigor and Radiating regen only able to get 2 stacks on one player would be a good general fix for both PVP and PVE. Trials have max 2 healers.

Agree for PvP, disagree for PvE.

Stacking HoTs can make a significant difference for groups learning to handle rapid incoming groupwide damage, so limiting the maximum number of stacks per player in PvE would just be needlessly harming that mitigative technique on top of U35's healing changes.

And this therein lies the problem: The Terrible Sandbox seperation of ESO that other game companies literally do a hundred times better than this with their own games.

TechMaybeHic

They keep nerfing damage abilities, and sets that boost damage of abilities don't match the defensive sets. They can keep making the rest of the HOTs pathetic, but it doesnt matter when the DOTs are already pathetic.

DrSlaughtr

I don't think PvE people understand that healing in pvp is boosted or nerfed via battle spirit. It has no effect on trials.

First we need to look at what is happening in cyrodiil.

On XB, a majority of players are building to do this: High health and defensive sets. Heal and avoid incoming damage until they get a 500 ultimate and then rely on balorgs to kill. They then rely on group damage stacking to win battles. They can do this because balorgs is so strong they can completely ignore doing base damage. It's all about just an ultimate burst.

They then tend to run in full groups because individually that cannot 1v1. Because they are essentially just 12 tanks focusing targets, it's ridiculously difficult to kill them unless you have 2 to 1 odds.

Healing and damage should both be lowered in battle spirit. Force people to make harder choices between survivability and damage.

The problem is they created this scenario on purpose. I assume it's working to plan because we're going into another update without any changes to reign in this meta. This leads me to believe that like oakensoul they think this helps new players compete better in pvp. The problem is the most toxic, sweaty people are using the same strat to roll over a map. You can't siege them. You can't bomb them. You can't fight them evenly. You need overwhelming numbers to win.