Is ESO going into "Maintenance" mode soon?

xthrshx

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Endgame PVE got a trial and new dungeons at their regular release cadence, so no, that's not true of endgame PVE. Only pvp entered maintenance mode.

Like I said, end-game PVE is currently entering maintenance mode. It hasn’t been stuck there for years like PVP.

We got a trial right before the release of U35. However, VDSR (hard mode and trifecta) represents the catastrophic differences in vision and creative direction from the encounters team and the combat team. The trial was already prohibitively hard (again, end-game in view here, so hard mode and trifecta). It was clearly tuned for the top tier of ESO players. But then we were told top players do too much damage, and the result was across-the-board nerfs that gutted everyone’s damage (and heals). Clearly the combat team has a different audience in mind than the encounter team, and U35 makes it apparent whose vision is going to become corporate mandate.

Obviously ESO is not going to continue to release content for top-tier players. They made it clear those players do “obscene amounts of damage” and future releases will not be tuned to their skill level.

This is the clearest and most definitive shift in encounter/combat strategy, but it’s the culmination of changes that have been happening for years. How many dungeons have already been nerfed into oblivion?

The game is simply being tuned for lower skill players. Because the skill gap is so massive, this leaves very little room for real end-game content. Overland is already tuned for people doing like 10k DPS. Even Vet DLC are tuned to like 30k. Currently PB and SS are extreme outliers, and they do not align with the vision of the combat team.

Why would they create a trial achievement completed by less than 1% of their player base? In the past, there was a good answer to that: end-game players are crucial to the health of the overall community and responsible for all the content, build guides, teaching runs, and strategy help that occurs in the game world. (Not tutorials or branded guides.) But U35 makes it extremely clear they no longer value that. So what reason remains?

spartaxoxo

xthrshx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Endgame PVE got a trial and new dungeons at their regular release cadence, so no, that's not true of endgame PVE. Only pvp entered maintenance mode.

Like I said, end-game PVE is currently entering maintenance mode. It hasn’t been stuck there for years like PVP.

We got a trial right before the release of U35.

Disliking the balance of a patch is not what maintenance modes means. I disliked U35 too, but that is simply not what that phrase means. The trial and dungeons were both released at their normal time and tuned to respective levels of difficulty that is appropriate for the vet end of those pieces of content. That they exist at all shows that they aren't in maintenance mode.

Arthtur

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe not maintenance mode but Steadyeddy makes some really incisive points here about the decline of endgame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgidwlwpJBE

A lot of endgamers will hate me for saying it, but I think a major issue is the normal vet is too hard on a lot of the endgame trials, which demotivates people from truly trying before they start leading to an unhealthy rate of replacement. A lot of games I've played there was a PUG scene for this stuff. PUGS were garbage and vast majority of the the players who did them preferred raids. But, it was something that decently skilled people could stay up late with some cans of red bull to try and get done. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they fell apart. In another game I played I'd estimate the top 10% of players did them and the top 1% we're good enough to do leaderboards and sell carries and the likes. The equivalent to being done hard modes in this game.

Vet trials arent that hard. However... Ppl in this game have sooooo much problems with any mechanics. I cant tell how many times group was struggling just because 1 player didnt know anything and was wiping the group all the time.

You and your friend might be able to do it, but it's not everyone, it's most that cannot hit that kind of dps. It's like 1% of the playerbase. Top 10% is probably at like 50k DPS or something much lower than is standard for trials. But far, far more than the companions, which are tuned around the average damage output of the playerbase.

Thanks for not reading my entire post:
"And lets not start about that not everyone is able to it because of real life stuff. While its true, there are builds (HA ones) that are really simple and are good enough for vet trials. And if even HA builds are too hard then sorry but thats not a problem with the game."

In my post i talked how my friend got better when he got help. Before i met him vet DLC dungeons were for him too hard. And he is not the only one who felt that way. There is more players like him and some of them i helped too.
In my post i said that there are really easy ways to do good dps. And how at some point u cant blame everything on game difficulty.
And u ignored all of that. Whats the point of responding to me when u ignore what i say?

Also just to be sure, doing 10k dps is like pressing 1 button with basic gear. If thats the limt for someone then u cant do anything about it. No matter how much easier u will make the game. If ppl like that would be able to do trials it wouldnt be an endgame anymore.

spartaxoxo

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe not maintenance mode but Steadyeddy makes some really incisive points here about the decline of endgame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgidwlwpJBE

A lot of endgamers will hate me for saying it, but I think a major issue is the normal vet is too hard on a lot of the endgame trials, which demotivates people from truly trying before they start leading to an unhealthy rate of replacement. A lot of games I've played there was a PUG scene for this stuff. PUGS were garbage and vast majority of the the players who did them preferred raids. But, it was something that decently skilled people could stay up late with some cans of red bull to try and get done. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they fell apart. In another game I played I'd estimate the top 10% of players did them and the top 1% we're good enough to do leaderboards and sell carries and the likes. The equivalent to being done hard modes in this game.

Vet trials arent that hard. However... Ppl in this game have sooooo much problems with any mechanics. I cant tell how many times group was struggling just because 1 player didnt know anything and was wiping the group all the time.

You and your friend might be able to do it, but it's not everyone, it's most that cannot hit that kind of dps. It's like 1% of the playerbase. Top 10% is probably at like 50k DPS or something much lower than is standard for trials. But far, far more than the companions, which are tuned around the average damage output of the playerbase.

Thanks for not reading my entire post:
"And lets not start about that not everyone isn't able to it because of real life stuff. While

I did read the whole thing. I didn't respond because it's not true. Plenty of people hit like 50k on heavy attack builds. That is simply not the case that everyone can. The devs have flat out stated that a lot of people ARE trying and hitting walls and U35 was meant to (but failed catastrophically obviously) to target that issue.

You and your friend don't represent the playerbase at large. It's purely anecdotal. The numbers and the dev statements and constant massive overhauls trying to tackle these walls speak for the playerbase at large, and it's not happening. Most people cannot hit those numbers.

xthrshx

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Disliking the balance of a patch is not what maintenance modes means. I disliked U35 too, but that is simply not what that phrase means. The trial and dungeons were both released at their normal time and tuned to respective levels of difficulty that is appropriate for the vet end of those pieces of content. That they exist at all shows that they aren't in maintenance mode.

You’re misreading. I did not say ESO was in (end-game PVE) maintenance mode when DSR released. I said it’s entering maintenance mode (for end-game PVE), which is signaled by the disconnect between the development strategies of the encounters and combat teams.

By ZOS’ explicitly stated goals, no, VDSR HM and trifecta were not appropriately tuned. They were tuned for people who do “obscene amounts of damage” and whose damage must, according to ZOS, be mitigated. That means if you felt the trial was appropriately tuned as it was, then you are at odds with the vision shared by ZOS in communications around U35.

End-game players progging VDSR HM or SS (or the similarly difficult XS/PB) should therefore not expect new content with this level of difficulty. ZOS could not have been more clear about that.

ESO is now entering maintenance mode for end-game PVE because future releases will explicitly not cater to players doing “obscene” damage, aka organized groups, aka end-game players. For anyone who has been at the stage of trying trial trifectas or score pushing, end-game is 100% dead going forward.

spartaxoxo

xthrshx wrote: »

End-game players progging VDSR HM or SS (or the similarly difficult XS/PB) should therefore not expect new content with this level of difficulty. ZOS could not have been more clear about that.

I get you now. Still a pretty big leap.

They never stated it wasn't going to be tuned to endgame anymore. Bringing down the damage does not equal no more hard content. A boss at 200k hp with 100k damage does in two hits. Likewise, a boss with 100k hp dies to 50k damage in two hits. There is absolutely no indication that trials will not continue to be tuned towards the damage output of endgame players and it's quite easy to ensure the difficulty remains tuned to those players. They have nerfed damage in attempts to bring down high end damage in the past, and yet the trial design remained difficult and tuned to the endgame players of the time period.

This is just making a huge leap based off an entirely different goal, and the latest releases all serve as counter evidence to that leap.

Cireous

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey All, wanted to chime in quickly here. We are not going into maintenance mode. We've got more stuff on the horizon to keep everyone in Tamriel busy for some time. The team is excited to share more when we're ready, but until then, we have Firesong up next.

Hype

baltic1284

mhurston wrote: »

A few things that recently concerned me with the state of ESO.
1) Recent expansion was super light on content, maybe the card mini game took too much of the time away from adding story/quest content?

Overtime, yes content story and other aspects of the DLC and expiations have gotten very short on this department. Comare this one too Morrowind and past DLC and expansion's yes, they have gotten shorter and shorter and lacking more and more. Generally, not a sign on going into Maintenace but is a sign of devs and such ruining out of ideas, especially when the main selling point on this expansion was a card game no one asked for. Is the card game a novel idea yes but that could have been done in a separate light expansion and more focus on story and content been done in its place.

2) Twitch announcements on the site or from email are not listed on the Bethesda Twitch Schedule - see image here: https://imgur.com/Fg4DHN4
This is purely a lack of communication and action on part of Zenimax and the ESO staff that are responsible for it. Improvement definingly needs to be done here but again nothing personal not seeing a lot of action and correction on this. Doesn't mean the game is going into maintenance either is just bad internal communication to the proper personal to get the job done.

3) Zenimax's own website shows Greymoor images and lists Blackwood as the "latest chapter" - see image here: https://imgur.com/62TComw
See response from above falls under the same thing lack of communication internally to the right people to get the job done that simple.

I noticed this last expansion was very short compared to others. While Morrowind and Greymoor took me a good solid three weeks to play through the main story, side quests and 100% the map content. Blackwood was barely two weeks and now High Isle has taken me less than a week to complete the main story and all side quests and 100% the map.

UnabashedlyHonest

Tandor wrote: »

Whenever people talk about PvP, they only ever mention Cyrodiil.

How popular are Battlegrounds? Imperial City? Duelling?

Battlegrounds is not open world PvP. Battlegrounds focuses strictly on combat, and with the dumbing down of combat with U35, ZOS has greatly reduced the appeal of Battlegrounds.

Imperial City is a hybrid PvE/PvP zone, not strictly PvP.

Duelling is head to head PvE and not really PvP in the traditional sense.

And it's just sad that the devs refer to the card game as PvP when in reality it's just a card game. It's mystifying why dev time ever went into creating ToT in the first place.

UnabashedlyHonest

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe not maintenance mode but Steadyeddy makes some really incisive points here about the decline of endgame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgidwlwpJBE

A lot of endgamers will hate me for saying it, but I think a major issue is the normal vet is too hard on a lot of the endgame trials, which demotivates people from truly trying before they start leading to an unhealthy rate of replacement. A lot of games I've played there was a PUG scene for this stuff. PUGS were garbage and vast majority of the the players who did them preferred raids. But, it was something that decently skilled people could stay up late with some cans of red bull to try and get done. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they fell apart. In another game I played I'd estimate the top 10% of players did them and the top 1% we're good enough to do leaderboards and sell carries and the likes. The equivalent to being done hard modes in this game.

Vet trials arent that hard. However... Ppl in this game have sooooo much problems with any mechanics. I cant tell how many times group was struggling just because 1 player didnt know anything and was wiping the group all the time. And when u try to help and explain u get: Silence, "U Toxic Elitist", "Its tank's fault", "I dont care"... Maybe 1 player out of 10 will actually learn and thank you for help.
Like, u can see this in normal DLC dungeons. Ppl dont want to do them because there are mechs that u have to do and they dont want to learn about it on 3rd party website or video. I blame ZOS for that one because that falls under tutorial stuff.
I mean... what im supposed to do when after telling a DD to interrupt the boss i get "I dont have a space on a bar for that"? I can explain mechs, but basics of combat? In vet dungeons (as im not doing normal dungeons)? When this is even in overland? Is this content fault, or somebody is too lazy to actually learn about basics that takes maybe 5m?
The most crazy situation in trial i had was: i with my friend did more damage to the boss in vet trial than 7 other DDs together. And it was vHRC, its rather a simple parse boss. Is this trial fault? Mine? My friend? Or maybe bad tutorials? Players who refuse to even actually try?
My friend was doing around 40k dps when i started playing with him. After a week he hit 80k. All he did is some training about keeping his dots up, learning which skills and sets are good. Is this rly that hard? He got this all while playing the game with me.
And lets not start about that not everyone is able to it because of real life stuff. While its true, there are builds (HA ones) that are really simple and are good enough for vet trials. And if even HA builds are too hard then sorry but thats not a problem with the game.

If we want to talk about number of players that is able to do this harder content... its not that its low. Its just... players who can do it leave all the time because of what ZOS is doing. Its hard to get more players for that content when u lose them 24/7.
It was said many times already tho.
Did u heard about Project Vitality? At some point there was over 200 trial leaders ready to help players get into vet trials. After U35 that number dropped to under... 70. There were some other reason for few but 90% of them resigned because of U35. How are we supposed to get ppl into harder content when ZOS is destroying everything players worked on? Is this content fault too?

Content difficulty is the lowest problem with lack of players in harder content. Even bugs are higher than that (ever heard about add in Stone Garden that can kill u after he died?).

I'm wondering who's going to take the time to learn and write the tutorials on any new vet trials, dungeons or PvP builds and content going forward. It seems like the vast majority of players who liked ESO for the combat and challenge have left the game already to me. In many ways they were driven away from the game by changes like U35, as is the case with Project Vitality.

The players that took the time to learn the mechanics and write the tutorials for the toughest content were a huge crutch for ESO in multiple regards, and most of them are gone now.

martinhpb16_ESO

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Endgame PVE got a trial and new dungeons at their regular release cadence, so no, that's not true of endgame PVE. Only pvp entered maintenance mode.

Like I said, end-game PVE is currently entering maintenance mode. It hasn’t been stuck there for years like PVP.

We got a trial right before the release of U35.

Disliking the balance of a patch is not what maintenance modes means. I disliked U35 too, but that is simply not what that phrase means. The trial and dungeons were both released at their normal time and tuned to respective levels of difficulty that is appropriate for the vet end of those pieces of content. That they exist at all shows that they aren't in maintenance mode.

You are being literal. The reality is more nuanced

spartaxoxo

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

And it's just sad that the devs refer to the card game as PvP when in reality it's just a card game.

The card game has both PvE and PvP matches. PvE matches are Player vs NPC, PvP are Player vs Player. PvP =/= PK. And all cards games on the market call their stuff PvP without literally any comment and nobody bats an eye. Some of them even have tournaments that people watch with large prizes.

This is the only game I've ever encountered where there's a subset a players that think Player vs Player content shouldn't be called Player vs Player content.

spartaxoxo

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Endgame PVE got a trial and new dungeons at their regular release cadence, so no, that's not true of endgame PVE. Only pvp entered maintenance mode.

Like I said, end-game PVE is currently entering maintenance mode. It hasn’t been stuck there for years like PVP.

We got a trial right before the release of U35.

Disliking the balance of a patch is not what maintenance modes means. I disliked U35 too, but that is simply not what that phrase means. The trial and dungeons were both released at their normal time and tuned to respective levels of difficulty that is appropriate for the vet end of those pieces of content. That they exist at all shows that they aren't in maintenance mode.

You are being literal. The reality is more nuanced

No. The reality is that the game isn't in maintenance mode. It has a literal definition that this game doesn't remotely meet. There is nothing wrong with using hyperbole for emphasis, and to better illustrate a real point that you're trying to make. The problem occurs when people try to insist that their hyperbole is the literal, actual thing that is happening. Facts matter. Truth matters. Somethings are a matter of opinion or speculation, and some things are a matter of fact.

Has this game declined in quality? Opinion.

Does this game have less players than it used to at this time last year? Point of fact. (The answer is that is the case on Steam, and this is probably the case on other platforms too).

Are the main quests satisfying? Opinion.

Is this game in maintenance mode? A point of fact. The answer is no.

moleculardrugs

Reverb wrote: »

I think they’re tired of working on it, and they can’t wait until everyone is tired of playing it. A few more updates like U35 should do the trick.

That is depressing to think about. This is a game and a community I truly love

martinhpb16_ESO

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Endgame PVE got a trial and new dungeons at their regular release cadence, so no, that's not true of endgame PVE. Only pvp entered maintenance mode.

Like I said, end-game PVE is currently entering maintenance mode. It hasn’t been stuck there for years like PVP.

We got a trial right before the release of U35.

Disliking the balance of a patch is not what maintenance modes means. I disliked U35 too, but that is simply not what that phrase means. The trial and dungeons were both released at their normal time and tuned to respective levels of difficulty that is appropriate for the vet end of those pieces of content. That they exist at all shows that they aren't in maintenance mode.

You are being literal. The reality is more nuanced

No. The reality is that the game isn't in maintenance mode. It has a literal definition that this game doesn't remotely meet. There is nothing wrong with using hyperbole for emphasis, and to better illustrate a real point that you're trying to make. The problem occurs when people try to insist that their hyperbole is the literal, actual thing that is happening. Facts matter. Truth matters. Somethings are a matter of opinion or speculation, and some things are a matter of fact.

Has this game declined in quality? Opinion.

Does this game have less players than it used to at this time last year? Point of fact. (The answer is that is the case on Steam, and this is probably the case on other platforms too).

Are the main quests satisfying? Opinion.

Is this game in maintenance mode? A point of fact. The answer is no.

Like I said you are being literal. The issues are nuanced and far more interesting to discuss, which is what people are attempting to do, rather than your fixation on the literal meaning of the term 'maintenance mode'.

It's all about perspective, some people can see beyond black and white, and others don't. Doesn't mean that opinions should be shut-down by the lexicography police, especially when there are some interesting points being made here.

But hey feel free keep telling people they are wrong, it's your time. Was just trying to suggest maybe stepping back and looking at what people are saying about the game.

Take care.

Anhedonie

Maintanance mode means only bugfixes and balance patches, but no new content. Right now ESO provides new content, so it's not in MM.
But it is worth acknowledging that we used to get bigger zones, longer questlines, new classes and new fundamental mechanics. This hasn't been the case for a couple of years now. Nobody really cared for excavation or card game. Yet here we are.
While next year seems to have an expansion in mind, I expect eso to approach its MM period once Startfield releases. Because by the time TES6 comes out there will be a big dip in ESO population, possibly even a permanent one. And ZOS is already working on another project as far as I know.



Btw Kevin is the goat. Developer, community manager, does it all. Hats off. I hope he gets paid as much.

Kiralyn2000

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Like I said you are being literal. The issues are nuanced and far more interesting to discuss, which is what people are attempting to do, rather than your fixation on the literal meaning of the term 'maintenance mode'.

And that's where we're going to have to agree to disagree. "Maintenance mode" is a literal thing. Not a "I don't like the progression of the game" nuanced thing.

Tandor

spartaxoxo wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

And it's just sad that the devs refer to the card game as PvP when in reality it's just a card game.

The card game has both PvE and PvP matches. PvE matches are Player vs NPC, PvP are Player vs Player. PvP =/= PK. And all cards games on the market call their stuff PvP without literally any comment and nobody bats an eye. Some of them even have tournaments that people watch with large prizes.

This is the only game I've ever encountered where there's a subset a players that think Player vs Player content shouldn't be called Player vs Player content.

That's because, as you may have noticed in the rest of that quote, there are players in ESO who don't even believe that combat between players outside of Cyrodiil is PvP either.

spartaxoxo

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Endgame PVE got a trial and new dungeons at their regular release cadence, so no, that's not true of endgame PVE. Only pvp entered maintenance mode.

Like I said, end-game PVE is currently entering maintenance mode. It hasn’t been stuck there for years like PVP.

We got a trial right before the release of U35.

Disliking the balance of a patch is not what maintenance modes means. I disliked U35 too, but that is simply not what that phrase means. The trial and dungeons were both released at their normal time and tuned to respective levels of difficulty that is appropriate for the vet end of those pieces of content. That they exist at all shows that they aren't in maintenance mode.

You are being literal. The reality is more nuanced

No. The reality is that the game isn't in maintenance mode. It has a literal definition that this game doesn't remotely meet. There is nothing wrong with using hyperbole for emphasis, and to better illustrate a real point that you're trying to make. The problem occurs when people try to insist that their hyperbole is the literal, actual thing that is happening. Facts matter. Truth matters. Somethings are a matter of opinion or speculation, and some things are a matter of fact.

Has this game declined in quality? Opinion.

Does this game have less players than it used to at this time last year? Point of fact. (The answer is that is the case on Steam, and this is probably the case on other platforms too).

Are the main quests satisfying? Opinion.

Is this game in maintenance mode? A point of fact. The answer is no.

Like I said you are being literal. The issues are nuanced and far more interesting to discuss, which is what people are attempting to do, rather than your fixation on the literal meaning of the term 'maintenance mode'.

Whether or not the game is entering maintenance mode is the topic of the thread. So the truth of the matter is important here, as it what we're here to discuss.

It's all about perspective, some people can see beyond black and white, and others don't. Doesn't mean that opinions should be shut-down by the lexicography police, especially when there are some interesting points being made here.

If someone's conclusion relies on a false premise, and shutting down that false premise upsets their entire argument, then they should either reconsider their conclusion or find some better supporting evidence to strengthen the soundness of that conclusion. It shouldn't be a big deal to be able to concede some point, while staying true to your overall opinion. Many have in the form of something like "I know the game is not literally in maintenance mode, but there's a serious decline that is worrisome because of XYZ, that's why it feels like the devs don't care and we may as well be in maintenance mode'" is a common response and very sound opinion building. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to not be called names or other derogatory things. They aren't entitled to everyone agreeing with them, or to have people treat obvious exaggeration as truth in service of their argument. Disagreement is a normal part of debate. Clarification on points of fact are a normal part of a good debate.

martinhpb16_ESO

spartaxoxo wrote: »

If someone's conclusion relies on a false premise, and shutting down that false premise upsets their entire argument, then they should either reconsider their conclusion or find some better supporting evidence to strengthen the soundness of that conclusion. It shouldn't be a big deal to be able to concede some point, while staying true to your overall opinion. Many have in the form of something like "I know the game is not literally in maintenance mode, but there's a serious decline that is worrisome because of XYZ, that's why it feels like the devs don't care and we may as well be in maintenance mode'" is a common response and very sound opinion building. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to not be called names or other derogatory things. They aren't entitled to everyone agreeing with them, or to have people treat obvious exaggeration as truth in service of their argument. Disagreement is a normal part of debate. Clarification on points of fact are a normal part of a good debate.

Cool, we have established that in the literal sense the game is not in maintenance mode. Any chance we can all move on and listen / discuss about what people have to say about their experience of the game without having to return to the literal meaning of maintenance mode, or the meaning of truth every time someone says something, before this thread gets nerfed? Pretty please

BahometZ

I feel like this happens a lot when certain people post. The discussion turns into a technical point of order, rather than tackle the crux of the issue, which is the disappointing direction of the game.

TaSheen

Hmm. I don't find the direction of the game disappointing. I'm sorry that you do.

SerafinaWaterstar

What is it with people who love to come on here & talk the game down? Do you not have anything better to do?!

Mine will not be a popular opinion, finding Update 35 fine - in 2 vet trials prog groups, making good progress.

And I like High Isle - good zone, good quests. Even like the card game, is fun to play a hand or two. Took me a while to complete. Perhaps because I was not raging through doing all the quests superquick so I could then complain about the lack of content. 🫤

SerafinaWaterstar

Reverb wrote: »

I think they’re tired of working on it, and they can’t wait until everyone is tired of playing it. A few more updates like U35 should do the trick.

So, this is a game making them money, and they want to stop working on it as they are ‘tired’? And they want players to tire of playing it so - they can do what? Be out of a job?

Your business aptitude is amazing. Stunning.

(And Update 35 was not the death blow you think - oh I know that what many have claimed before flouncing off, but it’s just not.)

Seminolegirl1992

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe not maintenance mode but Steadyeddy makes some really incisive points here about the decline of endgame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgidwlwpJBE

A lot of endgamers will hate me for saying it, but I think a major issue is the normal vet is too hard on a lot of the endgame trials, which demotivates people from truly trying before they start leading to an unhealthy rate of replacement. A lot of games I've played there was a PUG scene for this stuff. PUGS were garbage and vast majority of the the players who did them preferred raids. But, it was something that decently skilled people could stay up late with some cans of red bull to try and get done. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they fell apart. In another game I played I'd estimate the top 10% of players did them and the top 1% we're good enough to do leaderboards and sell carries and the likes. The equivalent to being done hard modes in this game.

Vet trials arent that hard. However... Ppl in this game have sooooo much problems with any mechanics. I cant tell how many times group was struggling just because 1 player didnt know anything and was wiping the group all the time.

You and your friend might be able to do it, but it's not everyone, it's most that cannot hit that kind of dps. It's like 1% of the playerbase. Top 10% is probably at like 50k DPS or something much lower than is standard for trials. But far, far more than the companions, which are tuned around the average damage output of the playerbase.

Thanks for not reading my entire post:
"And lets not start about that not everyone isn't able to it because of real life stuff. While

I did read the whole thing. I didn't respond because it's not true. Plenty of people hit like 50k on heavy attack builds. That is simply not the case that everyone can. The devs have flat out stated that a lot of people ARE trying and hitting walls and U35 was meant to (but failed catastrophically obviously) to target that issue.

You and your friend don't represent the playerbase at large. It's purely anecdotal. The numbers and the dev statements and constant massive overhauls trying to tackle these walls speak for the playerbase at large, and it's not happening. Most people cannot hit those numbers.

I think it's largely because the game fails to teach players how to actually play their game more effectively, so unless players are interested in seeking build and parse guides, they will continue to hit walls as you said.

DMuehlhausen

Jaraal wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

the most played MMO in the world

https://steamdb.info/graph/?category=20

This means nothing to me as I, and the vast majority of pop, play on PC through the Bethesda launcher.

Jaraal

Can you link your source for this?

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Yes cause the most played MMO in the world is going to go to Maintenance mode. Honestly where do these people come from.

spartaxoxo

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe not maintenance mode but Steadyeddy makes some really incisive points here about the decline of endgame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgidwlwpJBE

A lot of endgamers will hate me for saying it, but I think a major issue is the normal vet is too hard on a lot of the endgame trials, which demotivates people from truly trying before they start leading to an unhealthy rate of replacement. A lot of games I've played there was a PUG scene for this stuff. PUGS were garbage and vast majority of the the players who did them preferred raids. But, it was something that decently skilled people could stay up late with some cans of red bull to try and get done. Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they fell apart. In another game I played I'd estimate the top 10% of players did them and the top 1% we're good enough to do leaderboards and sell carries and the likes. The equivalent to being done hard modes in this game.

Vet trials arent that hard. However... Ppl in this game have sooooo much problems with any mechanics. I cant tell how many times group was struggling just because 1 player didnt know anything and was wiping the group all the time.

You and your friend might be able to do it, but it's not everyone, it's most that cannot hit that kind of dps. It's like 1% of the playerbase. Top 10% is probably at like 50k DPS or something much lower than is standard for trials. But far, far more than the companions, which are tuned around the average damage output of the playerbase.

Thanks for not reading my entire post:
"And lets not start about that not everyone isn't able to it because of real life stuff. While

I did read the whole thing. I didn't respond because it's not true. Plenty of people hit like 50k on heavy attack builds. That is simply not the case that everyone can. The devs have flat out stated that a lot of people ARE trying and hitting walls and U35 was meant to (but failed catastrophically obviously) to target that issue.

You and your friend don't represent the playerbase at large. It's purely anecdotal. The numbers and the dev statements and constant massive overhauls trying to tackle these walls speak for the playerbase at large, and it's not happening. Most people cannot hit those numbers.

I think it's largely because the game fails to teach players how to actually play their game more effectively, so unless players are interested in seeking build and parse guides, they will continue to hit walls as you said.

Even if they do seek those out, they can find themselves running into trouble on that end, as they may have trouble getting the timing of things down.

SaffronCitrusflower

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

the most played MMO in the world

https://steamdb.info/graph/?category=20

This means nothing to me as I, and the vast majority of pop, play on PC through the Bethesda launcher.

True. But ZOS will never post any statistics on the player population. While steam does, so those are the numbers we have to work with . A poll elsewhere on the forum showed that roughly 1/3rd of players play through steam, so steam trends do include a large enough sample of the player base to draw accurate conclusions from.

spartaxoxo

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

the most played MMO in the world

https://steamdb.info/graph/?category=20

This means nothing to me as I, and the vast majority of pop, play on PC through the Bethesda launcher.

True. But ZOS will never post any statistics on the player population. While steam does, so those are the numbers we have to work with . A poll elsewhere on the forum showed that roughly 1/3rd of players play through steam, so steam trends do include a large enough sample of the player base to draw accurate conclusions from.

You can't just go by population size, you also have to have a non- biased sample, generally best with a random sample of all the population groups. Given that Steam has more competition available than say XBOX or PS, it's very plausible and even likely that a Steam player is more likely to leave for a different MMO than XBOX or PS player, for example. I think it's likely that other populations also saw a decrease too, but probably not on the same level as Steam.