Where is the update for the necromancer???

Melzo

Why did you refactor one class?? Where are the others?? Why is a third of the abilities of the necromancer - nonsense ??? Where are the mechanics of this class?? Why does Nekros only have 1.5 offensive abilities?? Why can't the first and second skill branches be reworked? Why is this class without any of the normal working class mechanics?? Why ??? Why is 50% of abilities only for pve content??? Where is the variety where is the choice??? Is the number of builds in pvp the same as the number of toes on a ninja turtle's toe?(2). The class is simply dead, not even close to being on an equal footing with others??? Where are the necromancers with staffs??? Why did you make it so that necro only fights in melee??? It's a *** necromancer. Wizard that raises the dead. Why do I have to have a mace to kill someone?? Almost all abilities are focused on ranged combat, but we see that each nekros is fighting closely to the enemy?? Why should I fight melee when all abilities are for ranged combat??? What kind of gameplay is this where you press blastbones and spam spam spam... Is this a class mechanic?? Is this gameplay?? Are you joking??? You try to play without synergy using class skills. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

dinokstrunz

insightful, I hope the devs read this.

Melzo

I'm sorry if I messed up, but I was expecting at least something. But as we see from the nekros, only a bomber turns out. If you remove one skill of the necromancer blastbones or synergy, then the class becomes completely unplayable. If you remove the dk breath it will still be strong. But the nekros will die... The skills of the attackers are 1.5.... The 2nd branch of skills is needed only for the sake of armor...

I don't know what I was waiting for. Most of the players stopped paying attention to this class, so I probably should just delete the game. Is it better for you to rivet a bunch of useless sets than to balance the class?

FrankonPC

Melzo wrote: »

Why did you refactor one class?? Where are the others?? Why is a third of the abilities of the necromancer - nonsense ??? Where are the mechanics of this class?? Why does Nekros only have 1.5 offensive abilities?? Why can't the first and second skill branches be reworked? Why is this class without any of the normal working class mechanics?? Why ??? Why is 50% of abilities only for pve content??? Where is the variety where is the choice??? Is the number of builds in pvp the same as the number of toes on a ninja turtle's toe?(2). The class is simply dead, not even close to being on an equal footing with others??? Where are the necromancers with staffs??? Why did you make it so that necro only fights in melee??? It's a *** necromancer. Wizard that raises the dead. Why do I have to have a mace to kill someone?? Almost all abilities are focused on ranged combat, but we see that each nekros is fighting closely to the enemy?? Why should I fight melee when all abilities are for ranged combat??? What kind of gameplay is this where you press blastbones and spam spam spam... Is this a class mechanic?? Is this gameplay?? Are you joking??? You try to play without synergy using class skills. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Melzo

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.[/quote]

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Iron_Warrior

I'm dissapointed because they haven't done anything for the empowering grasp. Empower changes destroyed this skill. It used to be a unique utility that a necro support could bring to the table. With the addition of sets like turning tide or archdruid and then turning this skill into trash, i feel like they are slowly turning necro into a dd only class. The only unique thing left for necro supports is necrotic potency. ZOS, are you sure you don't want to nerf that too?

YandereGirlfriend

Based upon the Warden changes, I think that Necromancer should be happy that they were excluded from these notes.

FrankonPC

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

Melzo

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

Here is an example of your versatility. The Empowering Grasp ability grants the Empower buff. In PvE content, only healers used it. To strengthen their dd. But now the buff has been reworked and players no longer need a necromancer through heavy attacks, since they buff themselves and others no longer need the Empower buff. In pvp, this skill does not cause damage, but only strengthens your pets, but at the same time they weakened the skeleton mage greatly. As a result, this ability, whether in pvp or pve, is no longer needed by anyone. I don't know what versatility you're talking about. Of course, you can suggest builds where rarely used abilities will be useful, but in 99 percent of cases they are simply useless. Yes, you can use the siphon in pve. And I don't mind that a class has 1-2 abilities only for pve content but when you have half the skills and your choice between offensive skills is 1.5 abilities. This is not a class with interesting mechanics. This is ***. That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

notyuu

They are over there in next to the box containing stamplar class idenity

Melzo

notyuu wrote: »

They are over there in next to the box containing stamplar class idenity

Hahah you're wrong. The box with the stamplar is already all washed down. And the necromancer is not bad is a bomber. So I sympathize.

CaptainVenom

The way I see it, necromancer is in a weird position at the moment, after changes do Empower, mender nerfs and skeleton ninja nerfs. But It feels it's kinda easy to buff necro the right way.

First things first, to make Empowering Grasp work again, we could really use a simple change to Empower: 80% damage on HA for PvE and 10% damage on PvP. This way Empower can be used on both scenarios and Empowering Grasp can once again be used as a support skill.

Second, Skeletal Mage nerfs... I have no idea why they decided to ninja nerf this summon. Not the way they did. Skeletal Mage was nerfed to the point Arcanist is pretty useless right now and Archer is good on its final seconds where it managed to get 75% at least. I really find it hard to believe Skeletal Mage was overperforming before, or else we would have seen A LOT of whining posts on the forums.

And Spirit Mender... It's now a pure mitigation skill, and that's it, which is fine... for Guardian. For Intensive Mender, a healer morph option, it's hard to think someone would slot it when we have better healing (and auto-target) options such as Rapid Regeneration, even after the nerfs.

So yeah... some buffs here and there could make necromancer shine again.

FrankonPC

Melzo wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

Necromancer is a lot better than sorcerer in pvp and I kill sorcs all the time on my necromancer. Nightblade is harder with blastbones mechanics with cloak but not impossible. As far as battlegrounds go I know plenty of high mmr players that play necromancer because harmony is the way to go to kill other 4 man premades. You can also run non harmony options for more mag or stam based as well, which is what i do. It's also naturally the tankiest spec in the game with a great burst heal, great hots, and utility skills that give you major protection/ultigen. It's also arguably one of the best pvp healers for their group utility and survivability. All 3 ultimates are also good in pvp, providing unique playstyles to different specs.

It's a good class. It can definitely see some buffs in the dmg dealing department but relative to other classes it's extremely versatile.

Morwe_Haldkan

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

Necromancer is a lot better than sorcerer in pvp and I kill sorcs all the time on my necromancer. Nightblade is harder with blastbones mechanics with cloak but not impossible. As far as battlegrounds go I know plenty of high mmr players that play necromancer because harmony is the way to go to kill other 4 man premades. You can also run non harmony options for more mag or stam based as well, which is what i do. It's also naturally the tankiest spec in the game with a great burst heal, great hots, and utility skills that give you major protection/ultigen. It's also arguably one of the best pvp healers for their group utility and survivability. All 3 ultimates are also good in pvp, providing unique playstyles to different specs.

It's a good class. It can definitely see some buffs in the dmg dealing department but relative to other classes it's extremely versatile.

Definitely not a lot better, and in almost all cases I'd rate sorcerer higher than Necromancer with the exceptions being in dueling and certain group compositions.

Necromancer's lost a lot of healing power in U35 so surviving in outnumbered situations became harder, whereas sorcerers can still rely on kiting and going full damage (+ Rallying Cry) and have good damage still.

In groups (or anythnig) a Warden burst overshadows Necromancer's on Harmony, so you don't need to go into that. A sorcerer's negate will always be an incredibly valuable tool, along with the AoE Unblockable CC from streak.

The only credible build I've seen so far for Necromancer's is focused on Master DW + Gryphon Reprisal (Harmony) / Maarselok and focus on pressure.


Regarding BGs: 4 Stamden stack is too dominant right now for any group diversity. A Warden is also a far better healer than Necromancer or any healer in that case.

Urzigurumash

Strictly PvP comment: A Class source of Savagery or Brutality to me is top of the list, I don't think either would be likely to overpower the Class. I'd prefer Savagery if I had to pick, since Brutality is easier to get, and slotting Fighter's / Mage's Guild abilities seems unthematic to me on Necro.

I've thought it would be neat on Detonating Siphon, the skill itself isn't great in PvP (especially now that Azureblight doesn't proc off Poisons / Status Effects and Siphon's tick rate is reduced) but the 3% Damage Done plus Death Knell stack would give some nice identity over the Fighter's Guild Weapon Damage bonus. Especially if we only got it while Siphon was active, would force a bit more choice between offense/defense in whether to use a corpse for Tether / Siphon / Harvest. Could be a bad idea though.

As it is, during the last year or so where Death Knell was a bit weak, I was more likely to run Malacath on Necro than any other class, but now that it's been buffed Savagery pots are attractive. Of course I usually slot Camo Hunter, but again, it's unthematic, isn't it?

Zekka

CaptainVenom wrote: »

First things first, to make Empowering Grasp work again, we could really use a simple change to Empower: 80% damage on HA for PvE and 10% damage on PvP. This way Empower can be used on both scenarios and Empowering Grasp can once again be used as a support skill.

Stop with Empowering Grasp in PvP, it's not a garbage skill because Empower got changed into a PvE buff only, it was already bad for PvP before the change and it's garbage because it does its primary function very poorly: STUN, you can't stun *** with it.

Let Empowering Grasp be a PvE support skill and change the morph that has literally zero use, Ghostly Embrace, into a functional stun.

FrankonPC

Morwe_Haldkan wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

Necromancer is a lot better than sorcerer in pvp and I kill sorcs all the time on my necromancer. Nightblade is harder with blastbones mechanics with cloak but not impossible. As far as battlegrounds go I know plenty of high mmr players that play necromancer because harmony is the way to go to kill other 4 man premades. You can also run non harmony options for more mag or stam based as well, which is what i do. It's also naturally the tankiest spec in the game with a great burst heal, great hots, and utility skills that give you major protection/ultigen. It's also arguably one of the best pvp healers for their group utility and survivability. All 3 ultimates are also good in pvp, providing unique playstyles to different specs.

It's a good class. It can definitely see some buffs in the dmg dealing department but relative to other classes it's extremely versatile.

Definitely not a lot better, and in almost all cases I'd rate sorcerer higher than Necromancer with the exceptions being in dueling and certain group compositions.

Necromancer's lost a lot of healing power in U35 so surviving in outnumbered situations became harder, whereas sorcerers can still rely on kiting and going full damage (+ Rallying Cry) and have good damage still.

In groups (or anythnig) a Warden burst overshadows Necromancer's on Harmony, so you don't need to go into that. A sorcerer's negate will always be an incredibly valuable tool, along with the AoE Unblockable CC from streak.

The only credible build I've seen so far for Necromancer's is focused on Master DW + Gryphon Reprisal (Harmony) / Maarselok and focus on pressure.


Regarding BGs: 4 Stamden stack is too dominant right now for any group diversity. A Warden is also a far better healer than Necromancer or any healer in that case.

necromancer's healing is no longer as much of a carry as it used to be. resistant flesh is still arguably the best burst heal in the game with what it provides, mortal coil is still free and good, etc.

harmony builds are often used when you need more dmg due to the tankier nature of off heals. Being able to avoid the gcd system is often pretty valuable. warden's are good this patch but they don't come close to harmony/vulnerability blastbones as far as burst goes.

magicka sorcerer on the other hand is arguably the worst class in the game. Although stam sorc is good, you have one really bad spec and one good one, whereas either for necro are good. you don't have to believe me though, you can just see how many people don't play the class, or listen to a person that has mained and excelled at the class for years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0EUWsRYfU

So yeah, in summation I disagree with everything you've said here, from personal experience and just what the players are playing.

lonnml

FrankonPC wrote: »

Morwe_Haldkan wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

Necromancer is a lot better than sorcerer in pvp and I kill sorcs all the time on my necromancer. Nightblade is harder with blastbones mechanics with cloak but not impossible. As far as battlegrounds go I know plenty of high mmr players that play necromancer because harmony is the way to go to kill other 4 man premades. You can also run non harmony options for more mag or stam based as well, which is what i do. It's also naturally the tankiest spec in the game with a great burst heal, great hots, and utility skills that give you major protection/ultigen. It's also arguably one of the best pvp healers for their group utility and survivability. All 3 ultimates are also good in pvp, providing unique playstyles to different specs.

It's a good class. It can definitely see some buffs in the dmg dealing department but relative to other classes it's extremely versatile.

Definitely not a lot better, and in almost all cases I'd rate sorcerer higher than Necromancer with the exceptions being in dueling and certain group compositions.

Necromancer's lost a lot of healing power in U35 so surviving in outnumbered situations became harder, whereas sorcerers can still rely on kiting and going full damage (+ Rallying Cry) and have good damage still.

In groups (or anythnig) a Warden burst overshadows Necromancer's on Harmony, so you don't need to go into that. A sorcerer's negate will always be an incredibly valuable tool, along with the AoE Unblockable CC from streak.

The only credible build I've seen so far for Necromancer's is focused on Master DW + Gryphon Reprisal (Harmony) / Maarselok and focus on pressure.


Regarding BGs: 4 Stamden stack is too dominant right now for any group diversity. A Warden is also a far better healer than Necromancer or any healer in that case.

necromancer's healing is no longer as much of a carry as it used to be. resistant flesh is still arguably the best burst heal in the game with what it provides, mortal coil is still free and good, etc.

harmony builds are often needed in higher mmr bgs due to the tankier nature of off heals. warden's are good this patch but they don't come close to harmony/vulnerability blastbones as far as burst goes.

sorcerer on the other hand is arguably the worst class in the game. you don't have to believe me though, you can just see how many people don't play the class, or listen to a person that has mained and excelled at the class for years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0EUWsRYfU

So yeah, in summation I disagree with everything you've said here, from personal experience and just what the players are playing.

You mention high MMR BGs. I assume you aren’t on PC/NA because I don’t recognize your username. Stam sorcs are still very good and are still the best burst class in the game, the issue with sorcs this patch has just been healing because they lack it entirely. At least on PC/NA, there are still quite a bit of stam sorcs. Less so magsorcs but there is at least 1 per match

Very few people run harmony builds in high MMR BGs. Most people know how to block when DC procs. Do you play on console?

FrankonPC

lonnml wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Morwe_Haldkan wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

Necromancer is a lot better than sorcerer in pvp and I kill sorcs all the time on my necromancer. Nightblade is harder with blastbones mechanics with cloak but not impossible. As far as battlegrounds go I know plenty of high mmr players that play necromancer because harmony is the way to go to kill other 4 man premades. You can also run non harmony options for more mag or stam based as well, which is what i do. It's also naturally the tankiest spec in the game with a great burst heal, great hots, and utility skills that give you major protection/ultigen. It's also arguably one of the best pvp healers for their group utility and survivability. All 3 ultimates are also good in pvp, providing unique playstyles to different specs.

It's a good class. It can definitely see some buffs in the dmg dealing department but relative to other classes it's extremely versatile.

Definitely not a lot better, and in almost all cases I'd rate sorcerer higher than Necromancer with the exceptions being in dueling and certain group compositions.

Necromancer's lost a lot of healing power in U35 so surviving in outnumbered situations became harder, whereas sorcerers can still rely on kiting and going full damage (+ Rallying Cry) and have good damage still.

In groups (or anythnig) a Warden burst overshadows Necromancer's on Harmony, so you don't need to go into that. A sorcerer's negate will always be an incredibly valuable tool, along with the AoE Unblockable CC from streak.

The only credible build I've seen so far for Necromancer's is focused on Master DW + Gryphon Reprisal (Harmony) / Maarselok and focus on pressure.


Regarding BGs: 4 Stamden stack is too dominant right now for any group diversity. A Warden is also a far better healer than Necromancer or any healer in that case.

necromancer's healing is no longer as much of a carry as it used to be. resistant flesh is still arguably the best burst heal in the game with what it provides, mortal coil is still free and good, etc.

harmony builds are often needed in higher mmr bgs due to the tankier nature of off heals. warden's are good this patch but they don't come close to harmony/vulnerability blastbones as far as burst goes.

sorcerer on the other hand is arguably the worst class in the game. you don't have to believe me though, you can just see how many people don't play the class, or listen to a person that has mained and excelled at the class for years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0EUWsRYfU

So yeah, in summation I disagree with everything you've said here, from personal experience and just what the players are playing.

You mention high MMR BGs. I assume you aren’t on PC/NA because I don’t recognize your username. Stam sorcs are still very good and are still the best burst class in the game, the issue with sorcs this patch has just been healing because they lack it entirely. At least on PC/NA, there are still quite a bit of stam sorcs. Less so magsorcs but there is at least 1 per match

Very few people run harmony builds in high MMR BGs. Most people know how to block when DC procs. Do you play on console?

My reference on sorc was mag sorc, which is the video linked. Yes stam sorcs are good. I am on pc na

Zekka

FrankonPC wrote: »

necromancer's healing is no longer as much of a carry as it used to be. resistant flesh is still arguably the best burst heal in the game with what it provides, mortal coil is still free and good, etc.

Not even top 3 burst heal, Resistant Flesh has to be the most overrated skill in the game, it's not bad but just ok.
Nothing touches Coagulating Blood when it comes to self healing, Breath of Life and Shrewd Offering have the exact same scaling as RF and don't defile you when you use them, then there is the newly buffed Arctic Blast which has slightly lower scaling but still does so much more besides healing.

FrankonPC

Zekka wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

necromancer's healing is no longer as much of a carry as it used to be. resistant flesh is still arguably the best burst heal in the game with what it provides, mortal coil is still free and good, etc.

Not even top 3 burst heal, Resistant Flesh has to be the most overrated skill in the game, it's not bad but just ok.
Nothing touches Coagulating Blood when it comes to self healing, Breath of Life and Shrewd Offering have the exact same scaling as RF and don't defile you when you use them, then there is the newly buffed Arctic Blast which has slightly lower scaling but still does so much more besides healing.

I said resistant flesh is arguably the best burst heal and you bring up arctic blast which in your words, doesn't scale as well. ok

"Does so much more besides healing" with zero mention of the resistances you get with RF. At least include all of the pros and cons of skills like you did the others.

A crit resistant flesh often gives me 5k+ resistances for 3 seconds. The "defile" on resistant flesh is also ignoring that the "defile" is offset passively with curative curse, whereas shrewd offering is not. Coagulating blood is fantastic, as is hotd.

Zekka

FrankonPC wrote: »

I said resistant flesh is arguably the best burst heal and you bring up arctic blast which in your words, doesn't scale as well. ok

I'll take slightly lower healing output if it comes with a reliable stun, some passive damage and status effect.

FrankonPC wrote: »

"Does so much more besides healing" with zero mention of the resistances you get with RF. At least include all of the pros and cons of skills like you did the others.

A crit resistant flesh often gives me 5k+ resistances for 3 seconds.

I'm sure these resists help you against stuhns/balorgh wearing stamdens and corrosive DKs.

FrankonPC wrote: »

The "defile" on resistant flesh is also ignoring that the "defile" is offset passively with curative curse, whereas shrewd offering is not.

You don't need to defile yourself with your main heal for this passive to be triggered, you have negative effects applied to you as soon as you set foot to Cyro/BGs.
The health cost to Offering is just that, cost, that's why it has a ridiculously low mag cost to begin with and is spammable by even stamblades.
RF just isn't so good that it deserves a negative effect, especially now that Mender is no longer carrying necro's healing.

FrankonPC

Zekka wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

I said resistant flesh is arguably the best burst heal and you bring up arctic blast which in your words, doesn't scale as well. ok

I'll take slightly lower healing output if it comes with a reliable stun, some passive damage and status effect.

It doesn't make it a better burst heal, which is what I was talking about.

I'm sure these resists help you against stuhns/balorgh wearing stamdens and corrosive DKs.

Since no other burst heal provides anything of resistance value, it's a push vs a few specific builds and burst instances. So much more to open world than that though so yeah I find it helps a lot.

You don't need to defile yourself with your main heal for this passive to be triggered, you have negative effects applied to you as soon as you set foot to Cyro/BGs.

correct, but stating it has a negative effect when curative curse offsets it is silly. necromancers have arguably one of the best burst heals in the game and higher crit chance as their health gets lower, ensuring more crit heals and more resistances as you're pressured.

RF just isn't so good that it deserves a negative effect, especially now that Mender is no longer carrying necro's healing.

A negative effect that's offset passively isn't really a negative effect though. If you like other burst heals cool, I still think it's arguably one of the best.

Zekka

FrankonPC wrote: »

It doesn't make it a better burst heal, which is what I was talking about.

"Dude, RF's resistances bro!" but also "Yeah, I'm not talking about Arctic's great secondary effects", yeah okay...

FrankonPC wrote: »

Since no other burst heal provides anything of resistance value, it's a push vs a few specific builds and burst instances. So much more to open world than that though so yeah I find it helps a lot.

I don't even understand the point you're making here.

FrankonPC wrote: »

correct, but stating it has a negative effect when curative curse offsets it is silly. necromancers have arguably one of the best burst heals in the game and higher crit chance as their health gets lower, ensuring more crit heals and more resistances as you're pressured.

A negative effect that's offset passively isn't really a negative effect though. If you like other burst heals cool, I still think it's arguably one of the best.

You're literally negating an entire passive by using your main healing skill, that's a negative. Where is the -12% healing received for 3 sec after using Coagulating which would totally not be a negative because DKs get 12% healing received from the Burning Heart passive?

FrankonPC

Zekka wrote: »

"Dude, RF's resistances bro!" but also "Yeah, I'm not talking about Arctic's great secondary effects", yeah okay...

I was talking about burst heals. There are some that scale similarly and you compare secondary effects. There are some that do not and therefore if you're comparing BURST heals, they're not even mentionable when comparing burst heals. Arctic falls in this category. You're bringing up the worse morph too, which is a different story but still.

I don't even understand the point you're making here.

The point is that I'm not getting rid of 5k+ resistances when I need them the most because one class eliminates it entirely for a certain amount of time, especially when every other class faces the exact same issue. I find that outnumbered I'm running across a lot more than corrosive dks and vs almost everyone else having resistances greater than zero is valuable.

You're literally negating an entire passive by using your main healing skill, that's a negative. Where is the -12% healing received for 3 sec after using Coagulating which would totally not be a negative because DKs get 12% healing received from the Burning Heart passive?

So are you arguing that necromancer's heal is too low then? I don't get what you're trying to prove here. Getting minor defile of your burst heal is offset, meaning it's not a negative effect. The negative of the skill is the cost of the ability.


Resistant flesh is high healing with resistances for 3 seconds with a higher cost heal as a penalty. you can heal other people.

Coag is even more healing at lower health at a higher cost heal as a penalty, and you cannot heal other people.

honor the dead's additional effect is a lower cost of the skill relative to how low your health is. you can heal other people.

Offering is more healing at the cost of a dot on your health bar and you can heal other people.

If i were to make adjustments for necro I'd look at changing/adjusting the skulls spammable to make it viable, rework fear totem and provide a damage over time effect that's better in a pvp environment, i.e. not stationary or a pet, just to name a few.

CameraBeardThePirate

The way I see it, necros are far from underpowered. However, what they really lack is flavor. Necromancer has a lot of really powerful passives but only a handful of powerful skills. You can make a lot of different builds on necro, but you have to leverage far more non-class skills than most of the other classes. They have a fantastic burst heal skill, and an even better burst damage kit, but a lot of the other class skills are lacking in function, usability, and effectiveness.

Many of the skills in the Bone Tyrant tree are situational at best - the Ruinous Scythe change was a great step in the right direction, and Potency is a fantastic ult gen tool, but skills like Bone Totem and Grave Grasp feel a little cobbled together. They look great, but lack in power.

In the Grave Lord tree, their spammable needs a lot of help and has been discussed to death (heh). The nerf to the Arcanist and Archer leaves them pretty useless in PvP as the damage is now underwhelming (as well as not being able to proc sets, counting as direct damage on a DoT based class, and having poorer corpse creation than before thanks to the longer timer). The damage tether has good damage but is a little unreliable in PvP, however the buff to the resource regen helped things. Graveyard and Blastbones are both fantastic abilities, but if you don't wish to run a harmony build you're somewhat limited in terms of class damage abilities.

The Living Death tree is probably Necromancer's strongest. All of the abilities here are good at worst, and a lot of them are great. The ghost nerfs were needed, but with nerfs to HoTs across the board, the combo of Ghost, Tether, and Resistant Flesh still make for one of the stronger self healing kits out there.

Necro skills aren't really bad necessarily, I just think that they end up lacking in flavor since they have to pull a bit more from other lines for their offense and buffs. Skulls really needs an update, and some of the more headscratching abilities could use a total rework, but you can absolutely still ha e success on a necromancer thanks to their passives and how reliable their burst is.

FrankonPC

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necro skills aren't really bad necessarily, I just think that they end up lacking in flavor since they have to pull a bit more from other lines for their offense and buffs. Skulls really needs an update, and some of the more headscratching abilities could use a total rework, but you can absolutely still ha e success on a necromancer thanks to their passives and how reliable their burst is.

Agree with this. I feel like a lot of their offensive class kit is lacking, whereas their defensive and utility kit is very, very good as well as their ultimates.

IAmIcehouse

I'm confused, this is a post complaining about Necros being underpowered in PvP? Okay, maybe right now, they aren't #1 on the list, compared to prior years of dominance, but necros are incredibly wrong right now and are one of the few classes that actually has some sort of class identity in PvP. High burst damage, sustained pressure, so much build diversity at their disposal. Ranged, Scythe, Dswing, all super viable. Best burst heal in the game for PvP. Necro is in such a good spot right now where it's not oppressive but still strong. Model class IMO.

So many "necro OP" remarks, I'm thrown off by this post.

Zekka

FrankonPC wrote: »

So are you arguing that necromancer's heal is too low then? I don't get what you're trying to prove here. Getting minor defile of your burst heal is offset, meaning it's not a negative effect. The negative of the skill is the cost of the ability.

I think necro's healing is about where it should be but no longer the GOD MODE OP people still claim it to still be. Tether has been toned down and Mender, the main reason for the class ridiculous healing output, nuked and I'm arguing that RF is not the best burst heal skill.
So the healing got nerfed which is relatively fine but it never received anything in terms of reliable offense or crowd control to make up for it which I knew would happen, even the sets you could crutch on for single target pressure like Draugrkin and Savage Werewolf got nerfed, there is the build @Morwe_Haldkan talked about which is very strong but more a of a dueling spec.
The class doesn't have a reliable class ult, Goliath is just a "leave me alone" button and you need either Dark Convergence or a buddy on a class with actual good CC tools for Colossus. Its CC tools are laughable, Totem and Grave Grasp are terrible and Beckoning Armor works against you half the time. Its burst is based on the clunkiest mechanic in the game: synergy from a ground based dot which works when the server decides if it wants to let you deploy the graveyard and let you synergize.

Honestly, I would just outright delete Dark Convergence and give Harmony another nerf (or just repurpose it altogether, it's just not fun to get hit with 9k Ignites by a ball group designated synergy monkey), then rework the class offensive kit to make it based on corpse consuming skills, Animate Blastbones is already halfway there, also make Flaming Skull worth slotting and unfuck its animation.

FrankonPC

Zekka wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

So are you arguing that necromancer's heal is too low then? I don't get what you're trying to prove here. Getting minor defile of your burst heal is offset, meaning it's not a negative effect. The negative of the skill is the cost of the ability.

I think necro's healing is about where it should be but no longer the GOD MODE OP people still claim it to still be. Tether has been toned down and Mender, the main reason for the class ridiculous healing output, nuked and I'm arguing that RF is not the best burst heal skill.
So the healing got nerfed which is relatively fine but it never received anything in terms of reliable offense or crowd control to make up for it which I knew would happen, even the sets you could crutch on for single target pressure like Draugrkin and Savage Werewolf got nerfed, there is the build @Morwe_Haldkan talked about which is very strong but more a of a dueling spec.
The class doesn't have a reliable class ult, Goliath is just a "leave me alone" button and you need either Dark Convergence or a buddy on a class with actual good CC tools for Colossus. Its CC tools are laughable, Totem and Grave Grasp are terrible and Beckoning Armor works against you half the time. Its burst is based on the clunkiest mechanic in the game: synergy from a ground based dot which works when the server decides if it wants to let you deploy the graveyard and let you synergize.

Honestly, I would just outright delete Dark Convergence and give Harmony another nerf (or just repurpose it altogether, it's just not fun to get hit with 9k Ignites by a ball group designated synergy monkey), then rework the class offensive kit to make it based on corpse consuming skills, Animate Blastbones is already halfway there, also make Flaming Skull worth slotting and unfuck its animation.

Agree with most of this. I wish more of their offensive skills were usable in pvp as well. I was pretty excited for the archer changes until it was ninja nerfed the last few weeks.

Morwe_Haldkan

FrankonPC wrote: »

Morwe_Haldkan wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

do we play the same class? Some skills like skulls need a rework/more dmg but necro is more versatile than just about every class in the game rn.

Do you like Siphon? Or a skeleton mage?? Or controlling a necromancer?? Have you used these abilities at least once? Tried to kill the enemy using mostly class abilities??? Have you tried long distance? Where your gameplay is blastbones and spam spam spam. Where your spam does no more than 3k damage. Necromancer DPS... 6k blastobns 3k *spam twice... Without a finisher without other powerful abilities, all you need to do is grab a bomber or melee weapon and play melee.

A plar in the distance is stronger than a necromancer... Just think about it. He corny has a procast and the necromancer does not. A class that was intended for ranged combat only fights in close combat....

Siphon is a pve skill, skeleton mage was going to be good this last patch until,dots were nerfed across the board. Most dots are bad and necro is no exception. When I play magcro all I play is ranged so yes.

Necro can play harmony and non harmony. Skills like archer and dots in general could see an adjustment, but siphon in its current state won't be a pvp skill and that's ok. Skull needs an adjustment for sure.

The point is if you're mad at necro versatility, they're more versatile than most classes rn. They have issues ofc but they have more useful skills in pvp than most classes.

That is why this class is not played as often as NB, sorcerer DK ... In 8 hours of playing on BG I see a bunch of NB and two or three necromancers. In each patch there is a build that will be good in pvp. But if you watch YouTube you will see that all necromancers use the same thing and you will rarely see a necromancer kill a sorcerer or nb. This is a whole challenge to get these two classes with a necromancer. Unless, of course, noobs are against you.

Necromancer is a lot better than sorcerer in pvp and I kill sorcs all the time on my necromancer. Nightblade is harder with blastbones mechanics with cloak but not impossible. As far as battlegrounds go I know plenty of high mmr players that play necromancer because harmony is the way to go to kill other 4 man premades. You can also run non harmony options for more mag or stam based as well, which is what i do. It's also naturally the tankiest spec in the game with a great burst heal, great hots, and utility skills that give you major protection/ultigen. It's also arguably one of the best pvp healers for their group utility and survivability. All 3 ultimates are also good in pvp, providing unique playstyles to different specs.

It's a good class. It can definitely see some buffs in the dmg dealing department but relative to other classes it's extremely versatile.

Definitely not a lot better, and in almost all cases I'd rate sorcerer higher than Necromancer with the exceptions being in dueling and certain group compositions.

Necromancer's lost a lot of healing power in U35 so surviving in outnumbered situations became harder, whereas sorcerers can still rely on kiting and going full damage (+ Rallying Cry) and have good damage still.

In groups (or anythnig) a Warden burst overshadows Necromancer's on Harmony, so you don't need to go into that. A sorcerer's negate will always be an incredibly valuable tool, along with the AoE Unblockable CC from streak.

The only credible build I've seen so far for Necromancer's is focused on Master DW + Gryphon Reprisal (Harmony) / Maarselok and focus on pressure.


Regarding BGs: 4 Stamden stack is too dominant right now for any group diversity. A Warden is also a far better healer than Necromancer or any healer in that case.

necromancer's healing is no longer as much of a carry as it used to be. resistant flesh is still arguably the best burst heal in the game with what it provides, mortal coil is still free and good, etc.

harmony builds are often used when you need more dmg due to the tankier nature of off heals. Being able to avoid the gcd system is often pretty valuable. warden's are good this patch but they don't come close to harmony/vulnerability blastbones as far as burst goes.

magicka sorcerer on the other hand is arguably the worst class in the game. Although stam sorc is good, you have one really bad spec and one good one, whereas either for necro are good. you don't have to believe me though, you can just see how many people don't play the class, or listen to a person that has mained and excelled at the class for years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0EUWsRYfU

So yeah, in summation I disagree with everything you've said here, from personal experience and just what the players are playing.

The sorcerer part is true, pretty obvious and everyone knows that. Using the popularity of a class isn't a good way of saying a class is good or bad either per say, and the 2 classes talked about are the perfect example. People are always playing Magsorc because it is the traditional ''mage'' class. Whereas Necromancers are the least popular class in the game, even if they are the meta. Stamcro was the most common in Alik'r when they were meta, but on the broad scene of PvP they weren't popular.

The Warden burst VS the Necromancer (harmony) burst debate has more nuance, if you'd only look at the tooltips and everything aligns perfectly (blastbones is messy) the Necromancer burst would be higher on paper if you'd argue Dawnbreaker, Graveyard and Blastbones as the combo. A Necromancer in full damage gear would however be far more susceptible to die in a group compared to a Warden so it would lose damage from there, and the damage is far more telegraphed with blastbones.

Dizzy + (2nd) Shalks + Dawnbreaker beats Graveyard + Blastbones / Blastbones + Dawnbreaker. Against good players you can't hit all 3 (Blastbones, Dawnbreaker & Graveyard) without 1 being blocked. People will insantly block and spam Polar Wind after burst.

This argument is only based on the burst damage itself, if we take other things into consideration Warden is leagues ahead of burst Necromancer because it does not rely on other classes for more synergies for group comps, it has worse crosshealing, easier to kill, harder to time burst etc.