Piercing Cold passive rework is excellent! Could we also get the same for sorc please? *-*

lQrukl

Piercing Cold: This passive now increases your damage done by 1/2% which increases to 5/10% while wielding an Ice Staff, rather than increasing your Magic and Frost Damage by 5/10%.

Sorcerer need same for Energized please!

Energized:
Increases your Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Increases your damage done by X/Y% which increases to Z/Q% while wielding a Storm Staff.

UPD:

lQrukl wrote: »

Ok, I was quick to rejoice. But after whole this time staff users have been ignored, I can't blame myself for that. Just a single piece of changes in which staff users were remembered blew my mind.

Azirius

Is it an excellent rework? xD Seems like I’m missing something, unless this is a “Woosh” moment xD

PrinceShroob

I am pretty sure this is just a nerf to a class that didn’t deserve one.

xDeusEJRx

Would rather they add back some passive buff to the class via a skill than change a class passive. Add something like how nightblade merciless/relentless focus once focused. NB bow used to give 3% crit damage and healing per stack(just throwing out number ideas), do something like this but except with crit chance and tie it to a skill giving the class more power without taking away existing power

robpr

Instead of leaving old pre u35 warden how it was, now again entire spec is practically dead. You ice mage lovers better be happy now.

lQrukl

Azirius wrote: »

Is it an excellent rework? xD Seems like I’m missing something, unless this is a “Woosh” moment xD

Whats wrong? Stamina will get value from this passive, magica will finally get viable Frost mage.
Several abilities such as Eternal Guardian will require some tweaking, but that's nothing compared to the fact that people can now play as cryomancers without crutches.

ESO_Nightingale

robpr wrote: »

Instead of leaving old pre u35 warden how it was, now again entire spec is practically dead. You ice mage lovers better be happy now.

this is not our fault. we didn't ask for this either.

acastanza_ESO

You're kidding right? Sorc doesn't need or want a nerf. It needs literally the opposite.

WuffyCerulei

Please...!!

Styxius

This is an overall dps nerf for frost wardens, this passive does not benefit stam unless they're running a frost staff, which they shouldn't be. And, frost staff users just got a damage reduction on top of their already hurt animal companions passive getting the worse benefit. Crit damage since the cap has lost a ton of value.

CaptainVenom

lQrukl wrote: »

Piercing Cold: This passive now increases your damage done by 1/2% which increases to 5/10% while wielding an Ice Staff, rather than increasing your Magic and Frost Damage by 5/10%.

Sorcerer need same for Energized please!

Energized:
Increases your Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Increases your damage done by 1/2% which increases to 5/10% while wielding a Storm Staff.

You really want to kill stamsorc, don't you?

MashmalloMan

This change is NOT good.. people don't realize how restrictive this is.

First. The damage bonus for Frost staff applies to all damage dealt, not just direct, not just aoe. So instead of creating a scenario where it's equal or slightly better than Shock/Flame staves. Frost staff already includes the minor brittle so this 10% to everything AND minor brittle makes Frost staff the only option a Warden should ever use. Hold a frost staff, slot non frost skills. OOoooo look at that Ice mage. /s

Secondly. The 3% crit damage just put any stamina warden out of business. The class already has 10% crit damage via chilled which is not exclusive to mag warden, it can be procced by anyone in a raid, stam wardens have an easy time proccing it with a frost enchant or just using WR and Arctic, what if you're a Khajiit Warden? The way the game is built right now, you can only have an additional 10-20% crit damage before you hit cap in a raid. Medium covers 10%, Kahjiit covers 12%. That means you now get no bonus from Advanced Species, you're already removing crit damage CP stars, no Shadow mundus (not like anyone really uses it)...

Third. Adding restrictions to an entire class that say "You get X when holding a Frost staff" are limiting to the class identity. Whether you think you need to hold it or not, you're now being told you're weaker, using less of the Warden's potential without using a frost staff. This goes for the new passive and Winter's Revenge. The previous bonus to frost damage was less restictive and interesting to build for, now the idea is hold 1/6 weapons, deal more damage with everything else. It makes no sense.

Fourth: 2% damage done is a joke. Bare minimum it should of been 4% when you compare similar situations with other classes that get bonus damage, damage done, crit damage, dot damage, etc.

emilyhyoyeon

The source of destruction element imbalance comes from 1: ancient knowledge passive in destruction staff and 2: sets like encratis and skills like engulfing not having ice or shock counterparts and 3: fire staff morphs in destruction staff getting damage passives while ice and shock do not.

I don't know why they won't rework Ancient Knowledge and destruction staff elements in general instead of make all these weird unhelpful changes.

ESO_Nightingale

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This change is NOT good.. people don't realize how restrictive this is.

First. The damage bonus for Frost staff applies to all damage dealt, not just direct, not just aoe. So instead of creating a scenario where it's equal or slightly better than Shock/Flame staves. Frost staff already includes the minor brittle so this 10% to everything AND minor brittle makes Frost staff the only option a Warden should ever use. Hold a frost staff, slot non frost skills. OOoooo look at that Ice mage. /s

Secondly. The 3% crit damage just put any stamina warden out of business. The class already has 10% crit damage via chilled, what if you're a Khajiit Warden? The way the game is built right now, you can only have an additional 10-20% crit damage before you hit cap in a raid. Medium covers 10%, Kahjiit covers 12%. That means you now get no bonus from Advanced Species, you're already removing crit damage CP stars, no Shadow mundus (not like anyone really uses it)...

Third. Adding restrictions to an entire class that say "You get X when holding a Frost staff" are limiting to the class identity. Whether you think you need to hold it or not, you're now being told you're weaker, using less of the Warden's potential without using a frost staff. This goes for the new passive and Winter's Revenge.

Fourth: 2% damage done is a joke. Bare minimum it should of been 4% when you compare similar situations with other classes that get bonus damage, damage done, crit damage, dot damage, etc.

this change is absolutely catestrophic. it doesn't fix what they want it to fix and it creates so many more problems. i don't know how this even got through. NO-ONE wanted this.

dinokstrunz

Terrible idea, nobody wants this. What about people who don't use staves, do they just shafted?

Klingenlied

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This change is NOT good.. people don't realize how restrictive this is.

First. The damage bonus for Frost staff applies to all damage dealt, not just direct, not just aoe. So instead of creating a scenario where it's equal or slightly better than Shock/Flame staves. Frost staff already includes the minor brittle so this 10% to everything AND minor brittle makes Frost staff the only option a Warden should ever use. Hold a frost staff, slot non frost skills. OOoooo look at that Ice mage. /s

Secondly. The 3% crit damage just put any stamina warden out of business. The class already has 10% crit damage via chilled which is not exclusive to mag warden, it can be procced by anyone in a raid, stam wardens have an easy time proccing it with a frost enchant or just using WR and Arctic, what if you're a Khajiit Warden? The way the game is built right now, you can only have an additional 10-20% crit damage before you hit cap in a raid. Medium covers 10%, Kahjiit covers 12%. That means you now get no bonus from Advanced Species, you're already removing crit damage CP stars, no Shadow mundus (not like anyone really uses it)...

Third. Adding restrictions to an entire class that say "You get X when holding a Frost staff" are limiting to the class identity. Whether you think you need to hold it or not, you're now being told you're weaker, using less of the Warden's potential without using a frost staff. This goes for the new passive and Winter's Revenge.

Fourth: 2% damage done is a joke. Bare minimum it should of been 4% when you compare similar situations with other classes that get bonus damage, damage done, crit damage, dot damage, etc.

Finally someone who understands.

I mean I take it. The changes will actually help Magden deal more DPS. However - Stamden will suffer on both fronts. Magic and frost damage was part of Stamden kit - and not a minor one at that! So while armor pen was good for stamden, crit damage is less so. The reworked passive likely will result in Magden being the "way to go" for Warden. That's not bad, mind you - the opposite pretty much, Frost Warden is cool I think! However, I'd be going with a 2/5% to all damage and 5/10% to all damage with a frost staff equipped. And for the crit bonus, I would split it into crit chance and crit damage. Those changes alone would balance out Magden / Stamden very nicely I think. And, for the devs: Parse damage is not real damage. So while Stamden do outdps Magdens, Magdens have still a good time clearing content - as double bow stamden is .. still a rare sight. Not they they are not working, absolutely playable.

Overall however, this will not push up Warden dps by a lot.

MashmalloMan

lQrukl wrote: »

Piercing Cold: This passive now increases your damage done by 1/2% which increases to 5/10% while wielding an Ice Staff, rather than increasing your Magic and Frost Damage by 5/10%.

Sorcerer need same for Energized please!

Energized:
Increases your Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Increases your damage done by X/Y% which increases to 5/10% while wielding a Storm Staff.

Your post shows you're not thinking of any other scenario than the build you're currently using. What about stam warden and stam sorc? What about the 5 other weapons? Why should a class feel the need to be pigeonholed into 1 out of the 6 weapon types. This is a truely awful change that completely goes against their mantra of play how you want.

It's more of a.. play how you want, but if you don't play it our way, the way the class is meant to be played, tough luck.

The idea of increasing shock/physical or flame/poison damage for Sorc/DK is the perfect middle ground of allowing players to choose those damage types and sets, without forcing them to use a singular weapon. It gets worse because the Warden passive is a flat boost just for holding the thing, you really have no benefit to using Frost related sets or skills, it's a buff stick.

lQrukl

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

this change is absolutely catestrophic. it doesn't fix what they want it to fix and it creates so many more problems. i don't know how this even got through. NO-ONE wanted this.

Ok, I was quick to rejoice. But after whole this time staff users have been ignored, I can't blame myself for that. Just a single piece of changes in which staff users were remembered blew my mind.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

The source of destruction element imbalance comes from 1: ancient knowledge passive in destruction staff and 2: sets like encratis and skills like engulfing not having ice or shock counterparts and 3: fire staff morphs in destruction staff getting damage passives while ice and shock do not.

I don't know why they won't rework Ancient Knowledge and destruction staff elements in general instead of make all these weird unhelpful changes.

I would suggest to add 10% for any destruction staff, since any destruction stuff is a DESTRUCTION stuff, not tank/support/trashpack stuff.

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Terrible idea, nobody wants this. What about people who don't use staves, do they just shafted?

And what about people who have wanted to use staves for last years? Daggers/2H meta go brrr further?

Nexxperumbra

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This change is NOT good.. people don't realize how restrictive this is.

First. The damage bonus for Frost staff applies to all damage dealt, not just direct, not just aoe. So instead of creating a scenario where it's equal or slightly better than Shock/Flame staves. Frost staff already includes the minor brittle so this 10% to everything AND minor brittle makes Frost staff the only option a Warden should ever use. Hold a frost staff, slot non frost skills. OOoooo look at that Ice mage. /s

Secondly. The 3% crit damage just put any stamina warden out of business. The class already has 10% crit damage via chilled which is not exclusive to mag warden, it can be procced by anyone in a raid, stam wardens have an easy time proccing it with a frost enchant or just using WR and Arctic, what if you're a Khajiit Warden? The way the game is built right now, you can only have an additional 10-20% crit damage before you hit cap in a raid. Medium covers 10%, Kahjiit covers 12%. That means you now get no bonus from Advanced Species, you're already removing crit damage CP stars, no Shadow mundus (not like anyone really uses it)...

Third. Adding restrictions to an entire class that say "You get X when holding a Frost staff" are limiting to the class identity. Whether you think you need to hold it or not, you're now being told you're weaker, using less of the Warden's potential without using a frost staff. This goes for the new passive and Winter's Revenge. The previous bonus to frost damage was less restictive and interesting to build for, now the idea is hold 1/6 weapons, deal more damage with everything else. It makes no sense.

Fourth: 2% damage done is a joke. Bare minimum it should of been 4% when you compare similar situations with other classes that get bonus damage, damage done, crit damage, dot damage, etc.

As he stated earlier, extra critical damage is a completely wasted passive, due to crit cap. Any halfway optimized group easily reaches cap critical damage. We're also now forced to run frost staves, which also have much higher costs to abilities than their destruction counterparts as well. You only ever need ONE person for brittle, so forcing every single warden into being a brittleden is just ridiculous. We've also lost 10% extra damage from magic/frost, which means sets such as whorl/kjalnar just received a 10% nerf to wardens. This entire thing about wardens being forced into specific weapon types is ridiculous, and we're the unfortunate class to be chosen for their restrictions. Sorcerer's have the highest PVE output, and they receive their dmg % from ANY class ability, yet a class that wasn't even in the top 3 had theirs removed. These changes should all be reverted to U34, and whoever determines how wardens should play should be fired. They take random bits of information, and then twist it into something negative. People asked for different morph damages to further benefit from their passive, not a ridiculous passive change that forces them into a singular play style. It's extremely obvious at this point that they can't let the players have good ideas of their own implemented, they have to twist it into something of "their own", which is literally always worse than what was asked for. Find a way to get the playerbase to cancel subs at the same time, in mass. That'll be the only way this company ever properly listens to their playerbase.

dinokstrunz

lQrukl wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

this change is absolutely catestrophic. it doesn't fix what they want it to fix and it creates so many more problems. i don't know how this even got through. NO-ONE wanted this.

Ok, I was quick to rejoice. But after whole this time staff users have been ignored, I can't blame myself for that. Just a single piece of changes in which staff users were remembered blew my mind.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

The source of destruction element imbalance comes from 1: ancient knowledge passive in destruction staff and 2: sets like encratis and skills like engulfing not having ice or shock counterparts and 3: fire staff morphs in destruction staff getting damage passives while ice and shock do not.

I don't know why they won't rework Ancient Knowledge and destruction staff elements in general instead of make all these weird unhelpful changes.

I would suggest to add 10% for any destruction staff, since any destruction stuff is a DESTRUCTION stuff, not tank/support/trashpack stuff.

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Terrible idea, nobody wants this. What about people who don't use staves, do they just shafted?

And what about people who have wanted to use staves for last years? Daggers/2H meta go brrr further?

Nobody forces you to play dagger/2H. The difference is not that huge you know right?

MashmalloMan

dinokstrunz wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

this change is absolutely catestrophic. it doesn't fix what they want it to fix and it creates so many more problems. i don't know how this even got through. NO-ONE wanted this.

Ok, I was quick to rejoice. But after whole this time staff users have been ignored, I can't blame myself for that. Just a single piece of changes in which staff users were remembered blew my mind.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

The source of destruction element imbalance comes from 1: ancient knowledge passive in destruction staff and 2: sets like encratis and skills like engulfing not having ice or shock counterparts and 3: fire staff morphs in destruction staff getting damage passives while ice and shock do not.

I don't know why they won't rework Ancient Knowledge and destruction staff elements in general instead of make all these weird unhelpful changes.

I would suggest to add 10% for any destruction staff, since any destruction stuff is a DESTRUCTION stuff, not tank/support/trashpack stuff.

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Terrible idea, nobody wants this. What about people who don't use staves, do they just shafted?

And what about people who have wanted to use staves for last years? Daggers/2H meta go brrr further?

Nobody forces you to play dagger/2H. The difference is not that huge you know right?

Also, the amount of versatility and range you lose evens the 3-5% dps you earn on a dummy. It's not worth it a lot of the time, this is completely different.

lQrukl

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Nobody forces you to play dagger/2H. The difference is not that huge you know right?

Nobody force you to play Ice Staves next patch. 8% is not that huge you know right?

Jokes aside, but wardens, necros and dks cannot deal significant damage with staves, since their damage is heavily split between single and aoe.
But you probably didn't even think about it before this moment, did you?
Plars, nbs and sorcs can play with inferno only, by maximizing singe-target damage, but other staves have been just a trash dd weapon for years. And staff option would be still worse than a melee meta. Also, with mele you still can maximize cleave damage, what really matter at (e.g.) vRH HMs.

YandereGirlfriend

I'm trying to wrap my head around how badly Deep Fissure has been nerfed over the last two patch cycles.

-24% base damage in direct morph nerfs for the first (and only useful) tick of the skill
Rhythm of the skill completely annihilated by the final tick at 9 seconds
Raw Damage from Animal Companions ultimately transmuted into a microscopic amount of Critical Damage
-8% base damage if not using a Frost Staff due to Piercing Cold changes

Why is there such a vendetta against this skill?

warich

Do you realize how restrictive this is for the class builds and diversity? The damage is laughable and the overall change is a further nerf to warden dps.
edit: fixed a typo

MashmalloMan

lQrukl wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Nobody forces you to play dagger/2H. The difference is not that huge you know right?

Nobody force you to play Ice Staves next patch. 8% is not that huge you know right?

Jokes aside, but wardens, necros and dks cannot deal significant damage with staves, since their damage is heavily split between single and aoe.
But you probably didn't even think about it before this moment, did you?
Plars, nbs and sorcs can play with inferno only, by maximizing singe-target damage, but other staves have been just a trash dd weapon for years. And staff option would be still worse than a melee meta. Also, with mele you still can maximize cleave damage, what really matter at (e.g.) vRH HMs.

The difference between melee or ranged is a legit choice. You're giving up range to put yourself in further dranger for a minor boost to dps of like 5% max, while losing the range that helps you fight when your target isn't always available within 5m of you. I'd say the difference is fairly balanced.

Locking frost staves as the best possible front bar option on warden isn't a choice. It's also not very interesting because it doesn't incetivise the player to actually use Frost skills, just to hold the weapon. It's entirely backwards.

The previous frost passive effectively did the same thing, it boosted the light/heavy's for frost, it increased damage of frost skills that usually underperform. This does nothing but lock non frost staff users out.

lQrukl

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The difference between melee or ranged is a legit choice. You're giving up range to put yourself in further dranger for a minor boost to dps of like 5% max, while losing the range that helps you fight when your target isn't always available within 5m of you. I'd say the difference is fairly balanced.

No, it is not. Daggers at necro or dk are not an option, but must have. Looks like you didnt read.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Locking frost staves as the best possible front bar option on warden isn't a choice. It's also not very interesting because it doesn't incetivise the player to actually use Frost skills, just to hold the weapon. It's entirely backwards.

How does this relate to my theses?
Anyway, daggers are still better option then 8% raw damage, becase of 2 enchant procs and % crit.
Sorcs can prove. Daggers > +10% to almost every sorcerer skill by Inferno staff.
Why do you also forget that Frost staff doesn't have any damage passives?

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The previous frost passive effectively did the same thing, it boosted the light/heavy's for frost, it increased damage of frost skills that usually underperform. This does nothing but lock non frost staff users out.

But flame was still better anyway. Because of Encratis, Engulfing, etc.

I do not support general nerf, but I think they could just add Ice staff's bonus additionally, without touching other builds, or change it to ~5-6% and +8% with Ice Staff.
It wouldn't break anything at all.

Dangranma_Burgrukgad

Play as you want but not if you are a Warden.
Gonna change my main class hoping the combat team is not gonna destroy others.

merpins

It's a joke of a change honestly. Both of the warden changes.

Nser

Some people idont know how they think.. zos just now destroyed all magicka warden build with this change of piercing Cold passive change .. tyed ice staff with the class .. what a stupid idea ..

I been always using mele magicka warden now this change effected everyone using mele magicka warden build.

Why u dont think of others before do this changes..

I suggest to reverse piercing cold passive to % done done or penetration
Its need to effected all of builds not just specific play style

This chnage is nerf to warden not buff IT IS HUG NERF TO WARDEN CLASS

MurkyWetWolf198

lQrukl wrote: »

Azirius wrote: »

Is it an excellent rework? xD Seems like I’m missing something, unless this is a “Woosh” moment xD

Whats wrong? Stamina will get value from this passive, magica will finally get viable Frost mage.
Several abilities such as Eternal Guardian will require some tweaking, but that's nothing compared to the fact that people can now play as cryomancers without crutches.

Honestly man, I was little excited at first too, before I saw the numbers. I do really like the idea of a frost mage. But, 2 things; I think the numbers should be different. The base increase should help put Wardens on an even footing with other classes, making it something like +6% or +8%. Then, have the unique damage with Frost Staff be another 6% or 8%. That would still let Frost mages get a nice solid buff, but would help wardens in general be more competitive. Maybe even make the base number higher, idk.
However, more than changes to passives, I’d really like an Ice Damage spammable. Like, if I’m a frost build, my only options for a spammable are a reptilian bird thing (Dive) or using an ability that does 1/3 frost damage but also fire and shock (force pulse). Like, it just doesn’t feel right

Mr_Stach

Tying weapons to passives or skills is a terrible direction, you shouldn't be required to run ANY weapon to get the full value of class feature.

This especially hurts people who don't want to use Ice Staff but will feel forced to get the full value.

Make Ice Staff desirable inside the Destro Tree instead of this weird Frankenstein Change.