PTS Update 36 - Feedback Thread for Galen (Firesong)

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Firesong and the new zone of Galen. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• How many quests did you complete?
• Which areas did you explore?
• What’s your favorite and least favorite content you encountered?
• Did you encounter one of the new wandering Executioners? If so, what did you think of them?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Synaryn

It's a little difficult clicking the right wayshrine with how small Galen is on the world map, I keep porting to Llashara instead of Vastyr.

chessalavakia_ESO

Initial Feedback:

I'll do another after a couple weeks but, it'll probably be too late to be of any use.


How many quests did you complete?

I've completed every quest except for two? of the secondary main quest line due to a bug that stops progress in the Ivory Throne. (I had to log out and log back in for one of the mote quests to progress)

My favorite quests in the DLC were the first new main quests and the delve quests.

I found the secondary main quest line and Raz's quest frustrating.

The Ascendant Lord's identity is too obvious with too little doubt which makes the search feel ridiculous. If you've got time/resources (I doubt you do as getting voice lines in multiple languages has to be a pain) seriously consider either implementing a female character that uses magic to sound and look male or another male character to muddy the waters about who the Ascendant Lord is. Raz's quest is asking you to destroy massive wealth to avoid the factions fighting over it. I don't think any of my characters believe in Raz enough to buy that approach if they had a choice which makes the lack of choice frustrating.

My least favorite quest by far was Quen's quest.

Each update, you only have the resources to make so many stories. I don't think it was a story that needed to be told when you have so few stories that you can tell. It comes off as both excessively horny and creepy. If my character had any choice they would have destroyed the item.

Which areas did you explore?

I've believe I've covered most of the map but, I may have missed some small sections. It generally felt like it was High Isle and Amenos 2.0 as it felt both like it was an improvement on them and a bit redundant because it followed directly after and has few different visuals from it's predecessors.

What’s your favorite and least favorite content you encountered?

I think my favorite part was either the new main quest or exploring the buildings in Vastyr and talking to the npc's/watching them interact.

Quen's quest was my least favorite content by far followed by the second main quest.

Did you encounter one of the new wandering Executioners? If so, what did you think of them?

I briefly interacted with one and it seemed fine. I wasn't curious enough about it at the time to take the time to kill it. I looked for one later when I was writing this but didn't find one.


Do you have any other general feedback?

House Mornard's armor really makes a case for added flaps as the yellow makes some of the armor look kinda bad imho.

The safebox quantity is quite nice.

It might be better to call the area Galen on the map. I went into it expecting Y'ffelon to be more like Amenos instead of being too small to have a wayshrine. Y'ffelon was still interesting but, the name setup made it kind of miss expectations.

It feels odd to enter the Cathedral District then be able to go into the gate leading to the Cathedral and then getting stopped by an invisible wall and then when you turn to leave the other gate doesn't open. You might want to lock the gate leading to the Cathedral if it isn't going to be accessible at all.

The mount variety at the stables was nice to see.

It would be nice to have a house for sale in Vastyr.

I found the thief in his manor amusing as well as the vampire in Vastyr.

The Spriggan kicking the guy into the lava was a nice touch.

I hadn't realized Spriggan's used bows.

Aliyavana

can we put galen in like a little circle near systres? its hard to target wayshrines with how tiny the island is and how close it is to high isle

Maitsukas

Aliyavana wrote: »

can we put galen in like a little circle near systres? its hard to target wayshrines with how tiny the island is and how close it is to high isle

The Accurate World Map add-on did this for High Isle's release already, but I recall seeing that the separate map for the Systres will be removed in the future. @Vylaera and @Thal_J could probably tell more about this, since they created that add-on.

BlissfulDeluge

The lorebook "Modern Day Bretons: Man or Mer?" contains the following passage:

"But, here is my hypothesis: the fact that we possess a hint of our Elven lineage at all is evidence that it is still prominent within us. There are a great many centuries between us and our very first Breton ancestors. Though our features have become more human over time, I think it is important to note that our Elven aspects have not vanished completely. After only being allowed to have children with humans from the very onset of the Bretons as a people, we should have very little mer left in us. The fact that it has survived this long and in such clear ways speaks to its strength."

The lorebook should note and reference their magical abilities, as well, as their magical talent and magical resistance have both been acknowledged in lore, before. One would think that a lorebook exploring the Bretons' identity, and whether they are Man or Mer, would touch upon their most profound Elven traits. Furthermore, this lorebook is also a good opportunity to explore Breton lifespans (or their aging process) to explain the quote "Only half Elven, he aged like a Breton."

Also, "Mer" should be capitalized.

Vylaera

Maitsukas wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

can we put galen in like a little circle near systres? its hard to target wayshrines with how tiny the island is and how close it is to high isle

The Accurate World Map add-on did this for High Isle's release already, but I recall seeing that the separate map for the Systres will be removed in the future. @Vylaera and @Thal_J could probably tell more about this, since they created that add-on.

Our solution, since the map for V2 is going to have a larger crop to place the Systres in the correct place on the same map as Tamriel, is simply to increase the zoom capability of the map, so you can zoom in much farther than you can on the vanilla map. Also so you can see how detailed the map is

Work in progress render of Accurate World Map V2

I think a good solution for ZOS would be to update and fix the map and increase its resolution and detail, like I've done for AWM, so that it can be zoomed in on more to avoid that ugly cluttered wayshrine spam, especially if new zones will have smaller scaling in the future. The map is in dire need of work not only to fix its lore mistakes, but also to increase its functionality for the game as it is in 2022 and going forward, as well as to bring it up to par with the kind of quality and detail players expect from the game in 2022.

Soarora

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Initial Feedback:

[...]

I found the secondary main quest line and Raz's quest frustrating.

The Ascendant Lord's identity is too obvious with too little doubt which makes the search feel ridiculous. If you've got time/resources (I doubt you do as getting voice lines in multiple languages has to be a pain) seriously consider either implementing a female character that uses magic to sound and look male or another male character to muddy the waters about who the Ascendant Lord is. Raz's quest is asking you to destroy massive wealth to avoid the factions fighting over it. I don't think any of my characters believe in Raz enough to buy that approach if they had a choice which makes the lack of choice frustrating.

My least favorite quest by far was Quen's quest.

Each update, you only have the resources to make so many stories. I don't think it was a story that needed to be told when you have so few stories that you can tell. It comes off as both excessively horny and creepy. If my character had any choice they would have destroyed the item.

[...]

Do you have any other general feedback?

House Mornard's armor really makes a case for added flaps as the yellow makes some of the armor look kinda bad imho.

The safebox quantity is quite nice.
[...]
It feels odd to enter the Cathedral District then be able to go into the gate leading to the Cathedral and then getting stopped by an invisible wall and then when you turn to leave the other gate doesn't open. You might want to lock the gate leading to the Cathedral if it isn't going to be accessible at all.
[...]

These excerpts share a lot of my views as well, especially considering the quests, which left me unhappy.

Main Q:

I liked the goose chase towards the beginning of the secret 3rd questline, it really made me feel unsure in who the Ascendent Lord was, but one thing rang clear, if it was [who it ended up being] then it was way too obvious. People already guessed by the Chapter. The NPC was in both content while no other NPC was and the Ascendent Lord isn't around at all during Firesong, reinforcing the guess. The plot twist felt more of why he was the Ascendent Lord rather than who the Ascendent Lord was when both pieces could've been a surprise if someone else was chosen. Looking back, the cinematics also match this choice but could've matched other choices as well...

Quen:

Quen's quest made me feel a lot of things. Uncomfortable, amused, shocked, etc. I would've been fine with the quest itself in the end (And actually, it could've been an interesting time to throw some asexual representation into the game by having an npc be clearly unaffected! Maybe the one who was making the cloth? One could argue the sea witch was unaffected but it wasn't very clear like other representation is if that is the case.) but the story behind the totem is highly questionable. Just like the delve quest in High Isle regarding a man and his sheep, the implications are uncomfortable and even illegal (the quest has absolutely no mention of consent since being under the influence of anything doesn't count and no ones consenting to the influence either...). I feel like the writing has overall taken a sharp turn towards the creepily sexual to the point that I found myself skipping a lot of dialogue during the High Isle main quest just to feel less uncomfortable. I hope this does not continue.

Main Q (positive):

I think the deaths were well written and I'm glad to see meaningful deaths again. There was enough time to get to know the characters I think and even without really feeling much connection personally, the anguish of our friendly living npcs made me sad anyway. I loved this and missed meaningful deaths like

Summerset

had.

owaindraig

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Initial Feedback:

I'll do another after a couple weeks but, it'll probably be too late to be of any use.


How many quests did you complete?

I've completed every quest except for two? of the secondary main quest line due to a bug that stops progress in the Ivory Throne. (I had to log out and log back in for one of the mote quests to progress)

My favorite quests in the DLC were the first new main quests and the delve quests.

I found the secondary main quest line and Raz's quest frustrating.

The Ascendant Lord's identity is too obvious with too little doubt which makes the search feel ridiculous. If you've got time/resources (I doubt you do as getting voice lines in multiple languages has to be a pain) seriously consider either implementing a female character that uses magic to sound and look male or another male character to muddy the waters about who the Ascendant Lord is. Raz's quest is asking you to destroy massive wealth to avoid the factions fighting over it. I don't think any of my characters believe in Raz enough to buy that approach if they had a choice which makes the lack of choice frustrating.

My least favorite quest by far was Quen's quest.

Each update, you only have the resources to make so many stories. I don't think it was a story that needed to be told when you have so few stories that you can tell. It comes off as both excessively horny and creepy. If my character had any choice they would have destroyed the item.

Which areas did you explore?

I've believe I've covered most of the map but, I may have missed some small sections. It generally felt like it was High Isle and Amenos 2.0 as it felt both like it was an improvement on them and a bit redundant because it followed directly after and has few different visuals from it's predecessors.

What’s your favorite and least favorite content you encountered?

I think my favorite part was either the new main quest or exploring the buildings in Vastyr and talking to the npc's/watching them interact.

Quen's quest was my least favorite content by far followed by the second main quest.

Did you encounter one of the new wandering Executioners? If so, what did you think of them?

I briefly interacted with one and it seemed fine. I wasn't curious enough about it at the time to take the time to kill it. I looked for one later when I was writing this but didn't find one.


Do you have any other general feedback?

House Mornard's armor really makes a case for added flaps as the yellow makes some of the armor look kinda bad imho.

The safebox quantity is quite nice.

It might be better to call the area Galen on the map. I went into it expecting Y'ffelon to be more like Amenos instead of being too small to have a wayshrine. Y'ffelon was still interesting but, the name setup made it kind of miss expectations.

It feels odd to enter the Cathedral District then be able to go into the gate leading to the Cathedral and then getting stopped by an invisible wall and then when you turn to leave the other gate doesn't open. You might want to lock the gate leading to the Cathedral if it isn't going to be accessible at all.

The mount variety at the stables was nice to see.

It would be nice to have a house for sale in Vastyr.

I found the thief in his manor amusing as well as the vampire in Vastyr.

The Spriggan kicking the guy into the lava was a nice touch.

I hadn't realized Spriggan's used bows.

Hi did you manage to finish the second main quest? Everyone seems stuck on the Ivy Throne. How did you get past the bug reading the carvings?

chessalavakia_ESO

owaindraig wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Initial Feedback:

I'll do another after a couple weeks but, it'll probably be too late to be of any use.


How many quests did you complete?

I've completed every quest except for two? of the secondary main quest line due to a bug that stops progress in the Ivory Throne. (I had to log out and log back in for one of the mote quests to progress)

My favorite quests in the DLC were the first new main quests and the delve quests.

I found the secondary main quest line and Raz's quest frustrating.

The Ascendant Lord's identity is too obvious with too little doubt which makes the search feel ridiculous. If you've got time/resources (I doubt you do as getting voice lines in multiple languages has to be a pain) seriously consider either implementing a female character that uses magic to sound and look male or another male character to muddy the waters about who the Ascendant Lord is. Raz's quest is asking you to destroy massive wealth to avoid the factions fighting over it. I don't think any of my characters believe in Raz enough to buy that approach if they had a choice which makes the lack of choice frustrating.

My least favorite quest by far was Quen's quest.

Each update, you only have the resources to make so many stories. I don't think it was a story that needed to be told when you have so few stories that you can tell. It comes off as both excessively horny and creepy. If my character had any choice they would have destroyed the item.

Which areas did you explore?

I've believe I've covered most of the map but, I may have missed some small sections. It generally felt like it was High Isle and Amenos 2.0 as it felt both like it was an improvement on them and a bit redundant because it followed directly after and has few different visuals from it's predecessors.

What’s your favorite and least favorite content you encountered?

I think my favorite part was either the new main quest or exploring the buildings in Vastyr and talking to the npc's/watching them interact.

Quen's quest was my least favorite content by far followed by the second main quest.

Did you encounter one of the new wandering Executioners? If so, what did you think of them?

I briefly interacted with one and it seemed fine. I wasn't curious enough about it at the time to take the time to kill it. I looked for one later when I was writing this but didn't find one.


Do you have any other general feedback?

House Mornard's armor really makes a case for added flaps as the yellow makes some of the armor look kinda bad imho.

The safebox quantity is quite nice.

It might be better to call the area Galen on the map. I went into it expecting Y'ffelon to be more like Amenos instead of being too small to have a wayshrine. Y'ffelon was still interesting but, the name setup made it kind of miss expectations.

It feels odd to enter the Cathedral District then be able to go into the gate leading to the Cathedral and then getting stopped by an invisible wall and then when you turn to leave the other gate doesn't open. You might want to lock the gate leading to the Cathedral if it isn't going to be accessible at all.

The mount variety at the stables was nice to see.

It would be nice to have a house for sale in Vastyr.

I found the thief in his manor amusing as well as the vampire in Vastyr.

The Spriggan kicking the guy into the lava was a nice touch.

I hadn't realized Spriggan's used bows.

Hi did you manage to finish the second main quest? Everyone seems stuck on the Ivy Throne. How did you get past the bug reading the carvings?

No, I'm stuck on the Ivy Throne as well. My guess is we'll probably be waiting till at least next week for that to be fixed.

I was just thinking about something else at the same time and typed Ivory Throne instead of Ivy Throne.

I believe the Epilogue is

The Hidden Lord - The Ivy Throne - And Now, Perhaps, Peace

OolongSnakeTea

The actual content and blanket use of SA to 'make the bad guys seem really extra bad" (because the writers are weak and can't write a villain any better than to do the absolute baseline 'evil')-- of some of the quests are not great- and the writing has been very dry. A lack of diverse characters, and just hammed in 'returning characters' to try to carry the weak narrative has left this whole year of storytelling very 'meh' at best.

Details on the SA/violence:

https://twitter.com/NaemonAldmeri/status/1572544025491828739

Stncold

I don't think the complete removal of all the dialogue mentioned in the above post was the correct course of action. Removing it dilutes the world and makes the Elder Scrolls universe seem less gritty and crapsack than it is. Hell this is a universe that is even notorious for just how miserable it is to live in.
I do actually agree with the above that just sprinkling it in there like that is just a cheap method of making them mustache twirling villains but completely removing it without at least an attempt to make it impactful and treating the subject with the care it deserves also sucks. You guys could have possibly been lauded for writing something that would have stuck with people as a rare bit of brilliant writing on your part and possibly even inspired actual SA victims but you chose the route of weakness and cowardice instead.

This all ties back into a common complaint with the writing the past few chapters. You guys just don't take RISKS anymore. And anytime it looks like you're going to then you just retract it. You rely on the same old formula time and time again to be safe and it's getting old. Nobody I talk to likes it and you only have to look at the forums and social media for that. If you have a miss every now and then? Fine. But at least you tried.

You still have a month before Firesong is out. I beg you guys to reconsider and rewrite the quest. Do something that will get your players talking about your writing in a positive way. Or at least try to.

Aliyavana

Why did yall remove those lines on R***? Its not like the topic of the R word has not been explored before. Molag Bal is literally known as the King of the R***, not the King of Consent. Additionally, this isn't the first time that it has been implied. Lamae Bal was defiled by Molag and became the first vampire. Base game quests also have the concept

Nyxenwhite

Read on PTS notes (sept 26th) under “templates” section:
Mythic Items containers no longer have a level requirement.
Does that mean mythic items will be able to be used sub cp lvl or is “container” specific to acquiring them on the pts for testing purposes?

BlissfulDeluge

It is disheartening to see ZOS cave to the mob. While the removed dialogue was poorly written, removing it instead of rewriting it just waters down the setting completely, when these lines of dialogue and text are what someone who at all pays attention to the games would expect.

TES and TESO are both full of F'ed up lore. If you are concerned about a reaction from a handful of people on Twitter, just add an "Explicit" setting where those who have it enabled get to see and read all the darker stuff, while those who have it disabled can experience a more benign and comfortable Elder Scrolls experience.

Soarora

Aliyavana wrote: »

Why did yall remove those lines on R***? Its not like the topic of the R word has not been explored before. Molag Bal is literally known as the King of the R***, not the King of Consent. Additionally, this isn't the first time that it has been implied. Lamae Bal was defiled by Molag and became the first vampire. Base game quests also have the concept

I think the difference is that with Molag Bal it's implied in concept rather than anything occurring right in front of you. I know many people use elder scrolls, particularly ESO, as an escape from reality, so I think it's a good change to remove the scene from a main quest (since it's one of the more common triggers). I am not a SA victim myself though so take my opinion with some salt.

Aliyavana

The book, "Legacy of the Bretons", implies that the druids came after Bretondom first emerged with the line "The natural magic of the druids might be the first truly Breton creation after their first community gathered in High Rock not long after the appearance of the Bretons." This contradicts the book "Modern Day Bretons: Man or Mer?", as well as the line from the first Elder Scrolls Game "Thy race is descended from the ancient Druids of Galen."

This mistake appears to stem from the book "Wyrd and Druid", which has the line "During this early period, there were no druids or wyrds. There were only Bretons, seeking to find their way—the True Way—in a harsh yet beautiful world." Keep in mind that Leamon Tuttle had this book previously revised for having references to Manmer too early, and noted this as an being an example of imprecise writing (The Imperial Library has the earlier version archived for reference).

Bill Slavisek said in the in the latest Firesong stream (ESO Live at Home | Firesong DLC & Update 36 Preview time stamp 17:09-17:36) that the Druids of Galen led the Bretons when they first emerged, perhaps link this reign for Bretons adopting druidism and turning it into their own thing, a Breto-nedic art.

BahometZ

Disappointing to see people want to erase anything coarse and uncomfortable from a mature age game. TES has always had an element of the more confronting fantasy, slavery, sexual assault, cannibalism, etc. It's something that stands out from the more bland and infantilising fantasy games that have existed. It also one of the more friendly places for same sex representation, and positive and touching interracial relationships, which is a good thing. There is progressiveness and regressiveness. Ignoring one undermines the duality of life.

I get that people have experiences in the real world that they want to escape, but narratives that appeal to gamers kind of need to reflect real world experiences or else they pass through us meaning little, forgotten quickly.

Now if the issues aren't portrayed with nuance and understanding, or the tone is way off, and insulting, i can get on board with people's complaints. But TES games shouldn't shy away and censor confronting concepts.

Aliyavana

BahometZ wrote: »

Disappointing to see people want to erase anything coarse and uncomfortable from a mature age game. TES has always had an element of the more confronting fantasy, slavery, sexual assault, cannibalism, etc. It's something that stands out from the more bland and infantilising fantasy games that have existed. It also one of the more friendly places for same sex representation, and positive and touching interracial relationships, which is a good thing. There is progressiveness and regressiveness. Ignoring one undermines the duality of life.

I get that people have experiences in the real world that they want to escape, but narratives that appeal to gamers kind of need to reflect real world experiences or else they pass through us meaning little, forgotten quickly.

Now if the issues aren't portrayed with nuance and understanding, or the tone is way off, and insulting, i can get on board with people's complaints. But TES games shouldn't shy away and censor confronting concepts.

agreed

Stncold

I get that Raz is well-liked and he's a writer's pet character, but it's absolutely pitiful that he has a presence in a Covenant race expansion while Dariah, who hasn't shown up once since base game, doesn't. We just get a random passing mention of her from Emeric, which naturally led to debate as to whether she is literally an ogrim.

Why do the Ring of Daggers and Hidden Armigers even exist at this point when the Eyes of the Queen get 50x more story presence than they do? Why occasionally mention them if you will never use them? Goes back on my earlier posts about how you guys do jack all new stuff in your writing and just rely on the same old shtick over and over.

Grizzbeorn

- Fixed an issue wherein there was no player house available in the Firesong DLC

When is this patch note gonna show up?

Katheriah

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

- Fixed an issue wherein there was no player house available in the Firesong DLC

When is this patch note gonna show up?

It's gonna show up in a crown store showcase.

Aliyavana

The Spirit of Mount Firesong is such a generic name. The name shoulda been Arius, a volcano god mentioned in Arena's Character Creation. Considering the Firesong Circle has a dark past with the Allwither, the Spirit of Mount Firesong would fit with the sacrifice theme and the backstory of the primatives living on an island