As dd and healer, what do you want your Tank using in normal random dungeons?

DigiAngel

I play several tanks, all wearing Dark Convergence and Vatrashans sword/shield for the mob pulls, Tremor Scale for the oomph on taunt (also a handy indicator that yes, my taunt DID actually work ) and Ebonheart. Ebonheart has seemed....eh...I dunno maybe not helping the group as much. You folks like the 1000 extra health? Should I switch to a different heavy set? If so what are the recommends? Also, on the DC, I'm using ice staff....lightning better? Or stick to the shield for the group. Advice appreciated.

Elendir2am

Void Bash + Tremorscale + Yolnahkriin and you are tank god.
Last I would recommend Powerful Assault.

DigiAngel

Good call...my other tank I use for trials uses that...might as well give that a go thanks.

Jazraena

Yolnahkriin and/or Pearlescent Ward is definitely a good shout if available, as is Powerful Assault or similar buff sets.

But honestly, the only thing I really expect from a tank in a pug is to Taunt, Survive and provide Major Breach. I have complete understanding for any tank to gear more selfishly since they too have no idea who they group with and thus might bring a bit more self-reliance in both healing and damage.


As for Ebon Armoury, I assume you mean that, given the 1000 health comment, it's not as useful as it was back when health was lower, IMHO. DPS already bring 18k+ anyway.

Vevvev

A pull, a taunt, and hopefully if they're a DK, Talons.

Amottica

In normal dungeons, it does not matter. They can wear whatever they want. It is not the slightest bit important what gear they are wearing for a normal dungeon.

Heck, even in vet dungeons, if it is a random tank via the GF then be happy they are using a taunt.

Firstmep

I do rush of agony, much lower cd then DC, and war machine for slayer buff.

SkaraMinoc

Normal? Would rather have 4 dps with a taunt and some off heals.

This is the reality of Normal dungeons, even DLC.

DigiAngel

Thanks all...yea I don't have access to Rush of Agony sadly...that's why I added Vatrashans for the new DC cooldown My goal is really just to burn faster so...I think Yoln will help out the group and I have access to it. I would like to think that buffing the group as a tank is at least somewhat helpful

As for DPS with a taunt.....I'll try that as well.

SkaraMinoc

DigiAngel wrote: »

As for DPS with a taunt.....I'll try that as well.

Thank you for being open minded about this. Many tanks refuse to DPS even when it's mathematically superior on Normal.

Jazraena

In the end, as long as you maintain taunt and survive the boss without dragging it all over the place ...

FrancisCrawford

How about enchants?

Infused Crusher? Weakening? One-handed or two?

I've tended to bring Infused Weakening on my healers and assume the tank was bringing Infused Crusher. Is this correct? In PUGs, should I try talking about it for a few seconds first?

Similarly, should I bring Elemental Drain for the Major Breach just in case, or are alternate sources of Minor Magickasteal sufficiently prudent?

Jazraena

Infused Crusher certainly is a good idea, and the typical tank enchant. Not always there in pug's, but frequent enough when you do get an actual tank.

Most tanks will bring Major Breach already simply because it goes right with the usual taunt. As for Minor Magickasteal; personally I wouldn't sacrifice a bar slot just for that in random dungeon groups. I certainly don't count on it being there as DPS.

Porter_H

Try running Turning Tide..... major vulnerability really helps burn stuff faster if you don't have a necro in group (and CD is much, much shorter if you do).

I like frost staff because you can position a boss facing away from the group and actually hit party members with a frost shield from blockade. That's really handy with melee dps and AoE damage.

Elendir2am

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Normal? Would rather have 4 dps with a taunt and some off heals.

This is the reality of Normal dungeons, even DLC.

Tank with Void Bash and some buffs and debufs outperform 4th DD in every normal dungeons.
I am running it with my tank and it is super fun.
I have been lucky to get such tank for the first time few days ago. It was absolutely awesome. I hit 100-120K in every second trash fight, when he stuck them in the center and I burned them in 2 seconds. Other trash fights was in couldtime of sets proc so I did 3 time less damage.

DigiAngel

Eh...gave it a go with DD and taunt....felt wrong honestly. That and I kept thinking the Warden's blast would have one-shotted me if I was in that dungeon. I'll stick with true tank and Claw of Yoln I think

haelgaan

for a random normal tank - a taunt, a pull or other crowd control, and then anything you can to debuff target (Caltrops are great) and buff group, and to be safe a self heal

one thought - for RN content, avoid group buffs that are in Oakenshield, to avoid wasting your effort.

example - Yolnahkriin is wasted, if either DPS are running Oakenshield. You'd be better off using Powerful Assault or War Machine (heck, go for both)

chessalavakia_ESO

For normal dungeons all I am after in a tank is someone with a taunt that is more durable than I am.

p00tx

In normals? Damage skills.

Wolfchild07

Hopefully, they're a werewolf with rush of agony + tormentor. Or atleast tormentor.

MidniteOwl1913

I heal all most exclusively in normal. Normal dungeons have a wide range, for a lot of them, it s a speed run for high-level players and they don't really need a tank or a healer for that matter. But for most new players normal dungeons is where they start and where they learn. They need a tank who leads, who enters first, grabs agro, and holds the boss still. They need a healer who tops up the health bar and provides buffs and revives.

It's a disservice to those new players to say that for normal dungeons real tanks and healers aren't needed. It's dismissive of the help the support roles provide to the game even in the low-level content.

Jazraena

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I heal all most exclusively in normal. Normal dungeons have a wide range, for a lot of them, it s a speed run for high-level players and they don't really need a tank or a healer for that matter. But for most new players normal dungeons is where they start and where they learn. They need a tank who leads, who enters first, grabs agro, and holds the boss still. They need a healer who tops up the health bar and provides buffs and revives.

It's a disservice to those new players to say that for normal dungeons real tanks and healers aren't needed. It's dismissive of the help the support roles provide to the game even in the low-level content.

Yes and no. I agree with your general sentiment, but one should differ between 'a tank isn't needed' and 'a real tank isn't needed'. It's a fair assessment that for most normals you don't need an actual high end tank; anyone sturdier with a taunt and Major Breach that can survive and keep bosses in place will certainly do, which is what most in here posit.

MidniteOwl1913

Jazraena wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I heal all most exclusively in normal. Normal dungeons have a wide range, for a lot of them, it s a speed run for high-level players and they don't really need a tank or a healer for that matter. But for most new players normal dungeons is where they start and where they learn. They need a tank who leads, who enters first, grabs agro, and holds the boss still. They need a healer who tops up the health bar and provides buffs and revives.

It's a disservice to those new players to say that for normal dungeons real tanks and healers aren't needed. It's dismissive of the help the support roles provide to the game even in the low-level content.

Yes and no. I agree with your general sentiment, but one should differ between 'a tank isn't needed' and 'a real tank isn't needed'. It's a fair assessment that for most normals you don't need an actual high end tank; anyone sturdier with a taunt and Major Breach that can survive and keep bosses in place will certainly do, which is what most in here posit.

Any tank who is making an effort to tank, i.e. taunting and not being the first to die, staying with the party, is fine with me. If I have to revive the "tank" after the first big mob or minor boss I know it going to be a long dungeon...

Dr_Con

people cry about ebon armory and offer their armchair expert advice about it, but i think it's perfectly fine to help with group survivability, especially when you have people at 16k hp who refuse to use food buffs even if you offer them some sugar skulls and they still keep dying.

Yoln is fine, you taunt and the team gets more dps (except on oaken builds). Ebon is fine, you exist and the team gets more hp. Powerful assault is also nice on the backbar but a healer could be running that instead.

Klingenlied

Taunt and don't die in normal dungeons so even if you are in a newbie party with low CP only, no one needs to because bosses roam free.

For vet stuff? Go with what you need to make sure you stay alive - pretty much everything is viable here still.
People will love you most however if you manage as much buffs / debuffs as possible and manage to group enemies as efficiently as possible.

For HM & Trifecta? Work out something that synergizes with your group. Because that kind of content, you won't be running with random people.

DigiAngel

Great thoughts all thank you.

Jazraena

Dr_Con wrote: »

people cry about ebon armory and offer their armchair expert advice about it, but i think it's perfectly fine to help with group survivability, especially when you have people at 16k hp who refuse to use food buffs even if you offer them some sugar skulls and they still keep dying.

Yoln is fine, you taunt and the team gets more dps (except on oaken builds). Ebon is fine, you exist and the team gets more hp. Powerful assault is also nice on the backbar but a healer could be running that instead.

Nobody is 'crying and offering armchair advice'.

Ebon Armoury objectively lost value after every character received more base health. As a reminder, unbuffed health used to be around ~10,5k, not 16 as it's now. The same change is also precisely why most people don't run health food anymore outside of PvP - and in most cases, why would you after all? We're now unbuffed where we used to be buffed and most content didn't get harder.

Now, whether it's still good enough to run... IMHO it isn't. For the same reason I don't run health buff food anymore.

Panachudo

For normal dungeons I stack weapon and spell damage with heavy sets that scale off of it. For my sorc tank it's Thunderbugs, Shadowrend (scales off health but whatever), and Storm Knight. Glyphs are crusher and weakening. Run an ice staff on the back bar with elemental blockade, razer caltrops, and lightning flood. Front bar is sword and shield with piece armor, heroic slash, and hurricane. Buffed up she has 5500 spell damage and pulls anywhere from 20 to 24k DPS. It certainly speeds up the dungeon. On my warden its Ice Furnace, Domihaus, and Winterborn. Same idea as the sorc with aoe's and glyphs. Champion points go into weapon and spell damage as well. All works well. Fun builds too as they are thematically based. Which is a bonus for me.

DLC vets are a completely different story though.

jle30303

I'm running my tank in Leeching Plate and Yolnakriins. Yolna because I recently managed to get my hands on a full set of it and it's supposed to be hands down one of the best tanking sets, and Leeching Plate because frankly with PUGS, it kicks all kinds of tail because it's very good at keeping you alive if the healer is fake and the DPS (including the healer) incompetent. And if what you've got is a large melee trash pack and they're all hitting you, *all* of them provide a poison cloud which heals you and hurts them, and the poison clouds stack surprisingly well to provide more anti-trashpack damage than you'd expect from a tank. I just can't die to trash even if I walk away and go get a cup of tea in normal dungeons, or even veteran base-game (vet DLC is another matter).

At one stage I was running the tank in that Leeching Plate and a set of heavy Bahrahas, but I've finally retired the Bahrahas set.

Thecompton73

A DD character instead

redspecter23

At the bare minimum, some sort of taunt to hold bosses in place. Anything else might be nice, but not something that I would expect.