ZOS : U35 - question about HA builds problems

SPR_of_HA_community

The same time on META sets you can do more damage even on HA now.

It completely kills games variability.

Rotation becomes harder than on LA builds and on LA you can get more DPS, damage on HA becomes to low.

Meta sets overperform HA sets on both HA and LA (the same time HA sets are not good on LA rotation)

It makes HA sets worse choise in PVE and PVP.

With 3 hits HA sets have not enough impact to make HA of HA sets be enough to overperform META sets that are both good on HA and LA, whyle HA sets are useless on LA rotation.

The same time sets have PVE only option and stats - and are not even good in PVE.

Storm master is only good because it have good PVE crit change stat.

But sets like undaunted infiltrator with bad stats and PVE only option are terrible.

Including to all this- lose of 1 HA hit (25% of scaling damage, lose of HA maelstorm staff bonus and lose of moltan armaments and empower in PVP)

If do not even talk about game comfort that becomes worse with U35 changes - and rotations with 10/14/15/18/20/24/35 seconds skills - this change in HA lightning staffs mechanics was not even announced.

The lose of 1 HA hot on lightning staffs is a bug.

Or in game bug or bug in patch notes.

So I try to get information about it. If it is patch notes bug (such change was not even anounced) it makes HA sets underperforming to META sets.

If it is in game bug - when will it be fixed ?

Lightning staffs has less damage than other weapons, if the same time even sets for that now are underperforming because of bug - Lightning staffs users lose to match damage.

It is double overnerf - both on type of weapon and on sets.

hrothbern

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

The same time on META sets you can do more damage even on HA now.

It completely kills games variability.

Rotation becomes harder than on LA builds with more DPS, damage becomes to low.

Meta sets overperform HA sets on both HA and LA (the same time HA sets are not good on LA rotation)

It makes HA sets worse choise in PVE and PVP.

With 3 hits HA sets have not enough impact to make HA of HA sets be enough to overperform META sets that are both good on HA and LA, whyle HA sets are useless on LA rotation.

The same time sets have PVE only option and stats - and are not even good in PVE.

Storm master is only good because it have good PVE crit change stat.

But sets like undaunted infiltrator with bad stats and PVE only option are terrible.

Including to all this- lose of 1 HA hit (25% of scaling damage, lose of HA maelstorm staff bonus and lose of moltan armaments and empower in PVP)

nm

SPR_of_HA_community

hrothbern wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

The same time on META sets you can do more damage even on HA now.

It completely kills games variability.

Rotation becomes harder than on LA builds with more DPS, damage becomes to low.

Meta sets overperform HA sets on both HA and LA (the same time HA sets are not good on LA rotation)

It makes HA sets worse choise in PVE and PVP.

With 3 hits HA sets have not enough impact to make HA of HA sets be enough to overperform META sets that are both good on HA and LA, whyle HA sets are useless on LA rotation.

The same time sets have PVE only option and stats - and are not even good in PVE.

Storm master is only good because it have good PVE crit change stat.

But sets like undaunted infiltrator with bad stats and PVE only option are terrible.

Including to all this- lose of 1 HA hit (25% of scaling damage, lose of HA maelstorm staff bonus and lose of moltan armaments and empower in PVP)

nm

May be for you it is not a problem. But for me buged and not working skills or sets are a problem.

If devs do change - and do not announce it, I think it is normal to at least give players an answer is this in game or patch notes bug.

We already have U36 PTS, but no answer on U35 bug problems.

It shows that it will not be fixed in U36 update, because the existence of bug = "do not even care" for devs.

Living_Tribunal

Come on devs! Give this poor fellow a response!

Androrix

Living_Tribunal wrote: »

Come on devs! Give this poor fellow a response!

Or just acknowledge the concern has been noted and passed on to the relevant team, then the thread can be moved to the bug report forum.

Eiregirl

The following is in the patch notes for U35 and it might answer your question. If not sorry but it is the best I can do in answering your question.

Good luck in getting your answer from a dev.


Updated the damage scaling coefficients from fully charged Heavy Attacks to follow a streamlined model that looks at their total cast time, cooldown, and damage when paired with a “spammable” attack (such as Lava Whip), to help reduce the DPS loss seen when you utilize Heavy Attacks instead of Light Attacks. Their coefficient will now be a total of 1 per second rather than varying between 0.97 and 1.12. This will result in the following adjustments:
One Hand and Shield Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 1%
Two-Handed Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 1%
Dual Wield Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 28%
Inferno and Ice Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 26%.
Total cast time reduced to 1.8 seconds (identical to the total cast of Two-Handed weapons), down from 2.1 seconds.
Reduced resources to retain the same restore per second.
Restoration Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 15%
Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 2%
Bow Heavy Attacks: Damage increased by approximately 1%
Werewolf Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 14%
Volendrung Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced to 7500, down from 7560

SPR_of_HA_community

Eiregirl wrote: »

The following is in the patch notes for U35 and it might answer your question. If not sorry but it is the best I can do in answering your question.

Good luck in getting your answer from a dev.


Updated the damage scaling coefficients from fully charged Heavy Attacks to follow a streamlined model that looks at their total cast time, cooldown, and damage when paired with a “spammable” attack (such as Lava Whip), to help reduce the DPS loss seen when you utilize Heavy Attacks instead of Light Attacks. Their coefficient will now be a total of 1 per second rather than varying between 0.97 and 1.12. This will result in the following adjustments:
One Hand and Shield Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 1%
Two-Handed Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 1%
Dual Wield Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 28%
Inferno and Ice Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 26%.
Total cast time reduced to 1.8 seconds (identical to the total cast of Two-Handed weapons), down from 2.1 seconds.
Reduced resources to retain the same restore per second.
Restoration Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 15%
Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 2%
Bow Heavy Attacks: Damage increased by approximately 1%
Werewolf Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 14%
Volendrung Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced to 7500, down from 7560

The attack mechanism was changed.

It had 4 hits, now it is 3 hits. It make HA sets scaling 25% less.

So if you get 16hits per 10secobds before, now you get only 12 hits.

As you can see - such change was not even anounced in text you wright.

It was no information of it in patch notes.

They made one more restro staff from lightning staff.

So you can do more DPS on not HA sets than on HA sets with such changes. It even sounds silly. The same time - you can not do good DPS on LA with HA sets.

So it kills a lot of sets.

You now have only option play only META sets - other sets in game are just useless.

It kills the reason to play the game with a lot of different sets - because you only have few the real good options - that are always the same.

It is very bad and poor game balancing.

Living_Tribunal

Androrix wrote: »

Living_Tribunal wrote: »

Come on devs! Give this poor fellow a response!

Or just acknowledge the concern has been noted and passed on to the relevant team, then the thread can be moved to the bug report forum.

Which it hasn't or it wouldn't be here.

MidniteOwl1913

If it's not a bug then it's a pretty large undocumented nerf. Either way, a loss of damage this significant should deserve a dev comment.

SPR_of_HA_community

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_Adrikoth @ZOS_ConnorG @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam

HA builds get huge nerf in U35.
Unique HA buffs was deleted from DK,empower and some sets become PVE only (against monsters)

The same time you talk about "some love and better for US".

We do not see any better. A lot of good HA players stop playing.

Can you at least give information about changes you did not even announce ?

ZOS - it is not funny at all. You ignore me for a month+ already ?

This problem was on PTS and some players write about it.

Do not HA players at least deserve an answer ?

SPR_of_HA_community

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

If it's not a bug then it's a pretty large undocumented nerf. Either way, a loss of damage this significant should deserve a dev comment.

No answer was given from U35 PTS !

Some big blogers know about the problem the same time.

Why this problem is ignored, when the same time some little changes on U36 PTS get so much attention ?

Players with lightning staffs and HA players deserves more then this.

Lightning staffs are underperforming.
HA game play is underperforming.

The same time we get nerfs and new bugs and undocumented changes.

It was OK if ZOS the same time did not say about some "Love" and "better for us".

It looks more like build nerfs and DPS nerfs than love or any better.

No answers and no bugs fixed for a long period of time.

Even change in core mechanics was made by bug or in undocumented way.

What is it ?

Bugs do not fix for years, problems are ignored.

The same time - even old bug, that HA do not some time start - it was not fix right ?

Core weapon mechanics of HA of lightning staff is now buged or nerfed.

It change work of different sets for HA.
It change how game play feels.

It change champion points impact we use. It change a lot !

Why not even answer ? This problem is starting from U35 PTS. Now we already have U36 PTS ! But even simple answers was not given !

SPR_of_HA_community

It is not really funny. No answer for more than a month ?

I know that you read it Just say some thing already )))

Dr_Con

How were they going to nerf everyone's dps by 25% without removing a tick from lightning HA though?

SPR_of_HA_community

Dr_Con wrote: »

How were they going to nerf everyone's dps by 25% without removing a tick from lightning HA though?

They do not nerf ha of lightning sttaffs by 25% in patch notes. The same time it hits less than other HAs.

But ok, it looks like it is not possible to get any answers about fixes and bugs from devs.

OK, it was the same answer after so long time too.

Problem ignored - devs do not care.

We get your message, thank you.

Androrix

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

How were they going to nerf everyone's dps by 25% without removing a tick from lightning HA though?

They do not nerf ha of lightning sttaffs by 25% in patch notes. The same time it hits less than other HAs.

But ok, it looks like it is not possible to get any answers about fixes and bugs from devs.

OK, it was the same answer after so long time too.

Problem ignored - devs do not care.

We get your message, thank you.

I have asked this before, but I assume you gave a bug report in game and entered the report in the chat part where you ask for a response. If they responded and said they got your report, then they are not ignoring you just because they don't provide a response to a forum thread. If they started responding to every bug report in the forum that is all we would see here. Also there is a bug report sub thread you should try.

I am not diminishing your concern. I understand it, and I am surprised nobody has dropped by to say "thank you for the report, we will pass it on to the team. Thread closed or moved to sub-forum".

I really hope this gets sorted for you. I can see you are frustrated. I would not take anything too personally.

Necrotech_Master

the only reason i can fathom they removed the tick is that they reduced the channel time of the heavy from 2.1 to 1.8 sec

4 hits over 2.1 sec means it was about .525 sec per tick
3 hits over 1.8 sec means its about .6 sec per tick

so the frequency of ticks is still roughly the same, less than 1/10th of a second difference

but now the attack fits within 2 global cooldowns instead of rolling into a 3rd global cooldown

so you can use a heavy attack + a skill every 2 sec, instead of 1 heavy attack and a skill in 3 sec

losing 1 tick of dmg from the lightning heavy also is not a flat 25% loss, because the dot ticks are weaker than the final hit, its only about 16.7% dmg loss, but this is only looking at the heavy attack, not the fact you can now reliably also fire a skill every 2 seconds which easily counteracts that dps loss

and as others have mentioned, because of oakensoul, heavy attack builds are very viable (at least outside of cloudrest trial because of the bar swap mechanic, this definitely can target oakensoul users based on testing from a friend)

SPR_of_HA_community

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only reason i can fathom they removed the tick is that they reduced the channel time of the heavy from 2.1 to 1.8 sec

4 hits over 2.1 sec means it was about .525 sec per tick
3 hits over 1.8 sec means its about .6 sec per tick

so the frequency of ticks is still roughly the same, less than 1/10th of a second difference

but now the attack fits within 2 global cooldowns instead of rolling into a 3rd global cooldown

so you can use a heavy attack + a skill every 2 sec, instead of 1 heavy attack and a skill in 3 sec

losing 1 tick of dmg from the lightning heavy also is not a flat 25% loss, because the dot ticks are weaker than the final hit, its only about 16.7% dmg loss, but this is only looking at the heavy attack, not the fact you can now reliably also fire a skill every 2 seconds which easily counteracts that dps loss

and as others have mentioned, because of oakensoul, heavy attack builds are very viable (at least outside of cloudrest trial because of the bar swap mechanic, this definitely can target oakensoul users based on testing from a friend)

In rotation - numbers of attacks feels in speed - the same as before but of it was about 16 per 10 seconds, now it is about 12.

The same with more hits numbers appearce more often and it looks much better, so it feels worse too - now.

Change looks as templars jabs change for them. Feels worse, scale worse.

The same time it makes HA set much worse than other sets even on HA - because of bad scalling.