Best Heavy Attack set-up

gariondavey

Thanks for your insight.
Now just to see what necrotech says about the video and my question.

Necrotech_Master

gariondavey wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-rKgAv1cM8g

This guy uses infallible aether + deadly strikes + maelstrom bb with pale order and 1 kragh.

Is the reason why, in parsing you get buffs but when you run a build like this solo you don't...so you want a minor slayer set?

Would this set up he runs (20 minute vet scalecaller peak trifecta solo) be stronger dropping infallible aether for storm master or noble duelist?

i would also say the run definitely didnt take them 20 min because there are a lot of parts are sped up until they got to the bosses

the minor vulnerability from infallible aether is good to increase uptime, but i wouldnt count it much because you get that naturally from shock dmg (concussed status effect)

the other parts though, minor slayer is +5% and deadly increases channeled dmg by 15% (which would be additional 20% increase, then +80% from empower + i think like 50% from enemy being off balance, not even accounting for CPs)

another note to mention is that a huge majority of a heavy attack build (far more important than the gear sets) is empower + off balance on enemies and using the CP which increases light/heavy dmg and dmg against off balance enemies

from what i can tell their primary set of attack was caltrops -> wall -> heavy attacks and finished enemy off with jesus beam

caltrops would also be debuffing the enemy as well

while i havent specifically run a heavy attack build, as a templar they have good access to healing while they are attacking, while an oaken sorc is limited on bar space but can parse 90k dps using storm master + sergeant, and we have had a few people using this setup in trials so there are quite a lot of potential ways to build a heavy attack setup depending on which class you are running

malistorr

I just pop crit surge, boundless storm, and WOE morph and heavy attack away. I didn't even use any pets. Then I slot Bound Aegis and Inner light for the stat/damage buffs or 1 of those and a heal like Dark Conversion. Mag sorc.

CGPsaint

malistorr wrote: »

I just pop crit surge, boundless storm, and WOE morph and heavy attack away. I didn't even use any pets. Then I slot Bound Aegis and Inner light for the stat/damage buffs or 1 of those and a heal like Dark Conversion. Mag sorc.

If you're using Oakensoul, then running Boundless Storm and Inner Light is a bit redundant. You're better off running something like Wall of Elements, Bound Aegis, Critical Surge, and 2 Fighter's Guild skills for the 6% increase to Spell/Weapon Damage. As for Dark Conversion, Critical Surge should be the only heal you need if you're keeping your damage up. I personally flex in Razor Caltrops if I'm running solo for the debuff or Matriarch if I'm running 4-man so that I can provide a burst heal for the group.

gariondavey

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-rKgAv1cM8g

This guy uses infallible aether + deadly strikes + maelstrom bb with pale order and 1 kragh.

Is the reason why, in parsing you get buffs but when you run a build like this solo you don't...so you want a minor slayer set?

Would this set up he runs (20 minute vet scalecaller peak trifecta solo) be stronger dropping infallible aether for storm master or noble duelist?

i would also say the run definitely didnt take them 20 min because there are a lot of parts are sped up until they got to the bosses

the minor vulnerability from infallible aether is good to increase uptime, but i wouldnt count it much because you get that naturally from shock dmg (concussed status effect)

the other parts though, minor slayer is +5% and deadly increases channeled dmg by 15% (which would be additional 20% increase, then +80% from empower + i think like 50% from enemy being off balance, not even accounting for CPs)

another note to mention is that a huge majority of a heavy attack build (far more important than the gear sets) is empower + off balance on enemies and using the CP which increases light/heavy dmg and dmg against off balance enemies

from what i can tell their primary set of attack was caltrops -> wall -> heavy attacks and finished enemy off with jesus beam

caltrops would also be debuffing the enemy as well

while i havent specifically run a heavy attack build, as a templar they have good access to healing while they are attacking, while an oaken sorc is limited on bar space but can parse 90k dps using storm master + sergeant, and we have had a few people using this setup in trials so there are quite a lot of potential ways to build a heavy attack setup depending on which class you are running

His record before was like 29 minutes and he made a new one with this, idk how long it would have been without the video speed up, but it is less than 29 minutes I'd imagine.
I think he builds for solo 18k pen.
With the parsing you guys did, you only have to build for 5k or whatever, right?

Necrotech_Master

gariondavey wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-rKgAv1cM8g

This guy uses infallible aether + deadly strikes + maelstrom bb with pale order and 1 kragh.

Is the reason why, in parsing you get buffs but when you run a build like this solo you don't...so you want a minor slayer set?

Would this set up he runs (20 minute vet scalecaller peak trifecta solo) be stronger dropping infallible aether for storm master or noble duelist?

i would also say the run definitely didnt take them 20 min because there are a lot of parts are sped up until they got to the bosses

the minor vulnerability from infallible aether is good to increase uptime, but i wouldnt count it much because you get that naturally from shock dmg (concussed status effect)

the other parts though, minor slayer is +5% and deadly increases channeled dmg by 15% (which would be additional 20% increase, then +80% from empower + i think like 50% from enemy being off balance, not even accounting for CPs)

another note to mention is that a huge majority of a heavy attack build (far more important than the gear sets) is empower + off balance on enemies and using the CP which increases light/heavy dmg and dmg against off balance enemies

from what i can tell their primary set of attack was caltrops -> wall -> heavy attacks and finished enemy off with jesus beam

caltrops would also be debuffing the enemy as well

while i havent specifically run a heavy attack build, as a templar they have good access to healing while they are attacking, while an oaken sorc is limited on bar space but can parse 90k dps using storm master + sergeant, and we have had a few people using this setup in trials so there are quite a lot of potential ways to build a heavy attack setup depending on which class you are running

His record before was like 29 minutes and he made a new one with this, idk how long it would have been without the video speed up, but it is less than 29 minutes I'd imagine.
I think he builds for solo 18k pen.
With the parsing you guys did, you only have to build for 5k or whatever, right?

the parses ive seen have been on the target dummy, so more meant for group/trial play than solo play as that is going to need a little bit different setup

CGPsaint

gariondavey wrote: »

His record before was like 29 minutes and he made a new one with this, idk how long it would have been without the video speed up, but it is less than 29 minutes I'd imagine.
I think he builds for solo 18k pen.
With the parsing you guys did, you only have to build for 5k or whatever, right?

This is why I don't run Sergeant's Mail and Storm Master together when running solo or 4-man content, because I don't want to bring sub 1K Penetration, and in order to bring that up I would still need to sacrifice Crit from Mundus or weapon trait.

gariondavey

CGPsaint wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

His record before was like 29 minutes and he made a new one with this, idk how long it would have been without the video speed up, but it is less than 29 minutes I'd imagine.
I think he builds for solo 18k pen.
With the parsing you guys did, you only have to build for 5k or whatever, right?

This is why I don't run Sergeant's Mail and Storm Master together when running solo or 4-man content, because I don't want to bring sub 1K Penetration, and in order to bring that up I would still need to sacrifice Crit from Mundus or weapon trait.

Yeah his set up is 6 light + major breach + 7 divines with lover mundas + cp, so I believe that works out to be around 17k?
I've been using the set up in the video but adding templar shards front bar instead of the sun shield, and then swapping ritual of retribution for extended ritual, and swapping out flare for honor the dead.
I do this as a healer in 4 man random normals/vets. More than enough healing, and then just absolute melting of everything in the dungeon with probably 60k dps on the bosses? Something like that I imagine (I'd need to test a parse on a 6m dummy or something).
Bottom line...random dps doing low damage is no problem! Carry those dungeons!

BasP

Though this thread has been mostly about sorcs, it did make me want to try and turn my Magden into a Heavy Attack build to see what that'd be like for soloing. And it cruised through vVH. So thank you, everyone that posted their builds and/or commented.



I used the first setup with the Maelstrom Ice Staff on the back bar (though with Ice Fortress slotted instead of Elemental Susceptibility) for the above run, so I didn't really benefit from Off Balance sadly. But the extra survivability from the shield might've been nice.

I'll probably give vVH another shot with a Maelstrom Lightning Staff and the Exploiter CP next. On a 3M dummy I apparently do 45K DPS with that setup (vs. 41.5K with the Frost Staff and Thaumaturge), so I can imagine It'll work out nicely too.

Molydeus

CGPsaint wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

I just pop crit surge, boundless storm, and WOE morph and heavy attack away. I didn't even use any pets. Then I slot Bound Aegis and Inner light for the stat/damage buffs or 1 of those and a heal like Dark Conversion. Mag sorc.

If you're using Oakensoul, then running Boundless Storm and Inner Light is a bit redundant. You're better off running something like Wall of Elements, Bound Aegis, Critical Surge, and 2 Fighter's Guild skills for the 6% increase to Spell/Weapon Damage. As for Dark Conversion, Critical Surge should be the only heal you need if you're keeping your damage up. I personally flex in Razor Caltrops if I'm running solo for the debuff or Matriarch if I'm running 4-man so that I can provide a burst heal for the group.

If you have a healer in a 4 man group then why do you need Matriarch?

gariondavey

Molydeus wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

I just pop crit surge, boundless storm, and WOE morph and heavy attack away. I didn't even use any pets. Then I slot Bound Aegis and Inner light for the stat/damage buffs or 1 of those and a heal like Dark Conversion. Mag sorc.

If you're using Oakensoul, then running Boundless Storm and Inner Light is a bit redundant. You're better off running something like Wall of Elements, Bound Aegis, Critical Surge, and 2 Fighter's Guild skills for the 6% increase to Spell/Weapon Damage. As for Dark Conversion, Critical Surge should be the only heal you need if you're keeping your damage up. I personally flex in Razor Caltrops if I'm running solo for the debuff or Matriarch if I'm running 4-man so that I can provide a burst heal for the group.

If you have a healer in a 4 man group then why do you need Matriarch?

Queue as the healer...matriarch is all you need in virtually all 4 man content on a sorc (maybe an aoe hot like echoing vigor). Then you have 3 dps + a tank (even 4 dps if the tank plays as a tanky dps with a taunt).

CGPsaint

gariondavey wrote: »

Queue as the healer...matriarch is all you need in virtually all 4 man content on a sorc (maybe an aoe hot like echoing vigor). Then you have 3 dps + a tank (even 4 dps if the tank plays as a tanky dps with a taunt).

I don't generally queue, however I will use the Matriarch with my pre-made 4-man group if we're running HM content where a burst heal might come in handy. We generally run with a tank and 3 DPS and use orbs and Matriarch for healing as needed.

FrancisCrawford

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Sparrachion wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

You have storm master on the body, so it is on at all times. It has a decently long CD so I argue that it could move to be front bar only (maelstrom lightning back bar still). Then you could run infallible aether to be on at all times (body + some jewels).
My question, though was if you kept everything exactly the same as it currently is, but swapped out the sergeant for infallible aether. To my understanding, it, like storm master, are the strongest increase to heavy attack damage (undaunted sets + sergeant are weaker, I believe).

So either storm master fb, maelstrom bb, infallible aether on at all times, kilt, 1 pc kragh or slimecraw

Or

Infallible aether fb, maelstrom bb, storm master on at all times, kilt, 1 pc kragh or slimecraw

I'm game to try that! I reconstructed a set of IM jewels and staff (good thing I have a ton of gold LOL) and for me Sergeant clearly out performed IM:

95k with Storm Master and Infallible Mage:


99k with Storm Master and Sergeant's Mail (even with a slightly scuff rotation):


I did those runs back to back (and also did runs with Backstabber instead of Exploiter where Sergeant outperformed as well but both parses were lower than with Exploiter).

Thanks for doing the test.
The results confuse me...I'm not sure why sergeant does more than infallible aether. Hopefully someone else can figure that one out and explain it here.

the bonus to the heavy attack is much higher on sergeant (its only like 800-900 for infallible aether but like 2350 for sergeant)

infallible also applies minor vulnerability, which likely may or may not even be showing since concussed status effect is also minor vulnerability (which you should be getting a lot of with a lightning staff and wall of elements)

so just on the 5 pc effect, infallible is both weaker than sergeant, and minor vulnerability is probably not applying because thats what lightning staves already do fairly well

Infallible aether provides an increase to damage though, not an increase to weapon/spell damage FOR heavy attacks, though, I believe.

Back when the undaunted sets + the maelstrom staff were strong, it was because they increased light attack damage by a set amount.
And lighting heavy is 3 light attack ticks + 1 end tick (or at least it was then) so you'd get 1500 x3 increase on the undaunted set, 1500 x3 on the other, and then 2k x3 or whatever on the staff.

Then they changed those 2 undaunted sets + the sergeant set to give an increase in weapon and spell damage towards heavy attacks.
The maelstrom staff changed to flat increase to each tick of wall.
Storm master and infallible aether are all that remains (to my knowledge) of flat amount increases.
And to my understanding, this increases damage much more than the spell damage increase versions.
Also, infallible aether has minor slayer on top of the minor vulnerability, hence my confusion as to it underperforming sergeant.

sergeant, undaunted unweaver and infiltrator were all reverted to grant fixed bonuses again with U35, because one of the changes they were intending to make in U35 was "fixed" dmg light and heavy attacks, but that change itself was never pushed live, just the light and heavy dmg nerfs

I didn't realize they were back to flat. That's wild.
So 2x undaunted set + maelstrom + kilt isn't anywhere near as strong as these other set ups you've been using, eh?

i personally dont have any heavy attack setups, but common ones i see are sergeant + storm master + oakensoul (for the buffs and perma empower) + 1 filler item

there are likely other ways you could make it work depending on how you want to play (the 1 bar oaken build generally works best on sorc because very little bar management along with the bonus dmg to shock dmg, which is actually good for lightning staff heavy build)

empower + off balance heavily contribute to your dmg done with a heavy attack build and generally required to go along with the flat dmg increases

So run Wall of Element for the off-balance even if you don't use a Maelstrom staff? (And in a Oakensoul build you won't be.)

CGPsaint

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So run Wall of Element for the off-balance even if you don't use a Maelstrom staff? (And in a Oakensoul build you won't be.)

Yes. Run a lightning staff in Precise or Charged with a shock enchant and heavy attack enemies in your WOE.

UnassumingNoob

Has anyone tried deadly with these Heavy attack builds? Have a full set from my deceased dps plar. Would it be significantly behind?

gariondavey

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Has anyone tried deadly with these Heavy attack builds? Have a full set from my deceased dps plar. Would it be significantly behind?

Scroll back in this thread and see the video I linked
The guy who made a new record for solo vet scp trifecta runs deadly fb + maelstrom bb + ia body + pale order

MidniteOwl1913

Molydeus wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

I just pop crit surge, boundless storm, and WOE morph and heavy attack away. I didn't even use any pets. Then I slot Bound Aegis and Inner light for the stat/damage buffs or 1 of those and a heal like Dark Conversion. Mag sorc.

If you're using Oakensoul, then running Boundless Storm and Inner Light is a bit redundant. You're better off running something like Wall of Elements, Bound Aegis, Critical Surge, and 2 Fighter's Guild skills for the 6% increase to Spell/Weapon Damage. As for Dark Conversion, Critical Surge should be the only heal you need if you're keeping your damage up. I personally flex in Razor Caltrops if I'm running solo for the debuff or Matriarch if I'm running 4-man so that I can provide a burst heal for the group.

If you have a healer in a 4 man group then why do you need Matriarch?

Depends on the 4-man group. Sadly fake healers are a thing and many slot a heal just in case. I mainly play healers, but when I do pug with my DPS and fake healers shows up. I always think, bah, now I know why DPS feel the need to have heals. My sorc is very squishy and I really feel the fake heals... :-(

andriks

BasP wrote: »

Though this thread has been mostly about sorcs, it did make me want to try and turn my Magden into a Heavy Attack build to see what that'd be like for soloing. And it cruised through vVH. So thank you, everyone that posted their builds and/or commented.



I used the first setup with the Maelstrom Ice Staff on the back bar (though with Ice Fortress slotted instead of Elemental Susceptibility) for the above run, so I didn't really benefit from Off Balance sadly. But the extra survivability from the shield might've been nice.

I'll probably give vVH another shot with a Maelstrom Lightning Staff and the Exploiter CP next. On a 3M dummy I apparently do 45K DPS with that setup (vs. 41.5K with the Frost Staff and Thaumaturge), so I can imagine It'll work out nicely too.

Glad to find another Magden. Just rolled one and currently farming Storm Master and Sergeants Mail. Have you updated your build since this post?

gariondavey

Just thinking more about this and wondering if
Undaunted light set (1645 damage increase) with the bonus of all that penetration from light armor passives, if that would be better than storm master (1542 damage increase)? (If you are solo or in dungeon or arena, rather than a raid (no big buffs)

@Sparrachion @malistorr

You do lose 657 crit x2 and 129 wd from 234 set bonuses, but you do gain 5k pen, lose 10 percent spell damage, lose 12 percent crit damage but gain light armor crit rating

Edit, this would be with sergeant front bar, maelstrom back bar, on a templar who gets empower. Mythic probably wouldn't be kilt...would be pale order for solo and even group (as I queue as healer)
Currently I'm running infallible aether body + deadly strikes front bar/jewels/1 chest and back bar maelstrom

Armanie

It seems Sorcerer is the most popular class for HA builds. Why is that? I've never played sorcerer so I have no idea. is it because they get 5% shock damage? Free DPS from pets? In this case Warden could be a good fit too?

I can't parse more than 70k on my HA magplar, and that's with very little penetration so it's probably even worse in real combat.

haelgaan

Yeah, auto damage from pets and the shock boost, afaik. I also found warden to be good as a HA lightning staff build.

Zodiarkslayer

It's the class kit of utility and passive abilities. Combined with passive power from several class passives (not just energized passive for 5% shock damage), the sorcerer looses the least action per minute of all classes, when playing as a heavy attack build.

Or in other words, the Sorcerer deals with the downsides of a heavy attack build the best.

Neoauspex

Armanie wrote: »

It seems Sorcerer is the most popular class for HA builds. Why is that? I've never played sorcerer so I have no idea. is it because they get 5% shock damage? Free DPS from pets? In this case Warden could be a good fit too?

I can't parse more than 70k on my HA magplar, and that's with very little penetration so it's probably even worse in real combat.

I run it on a Necro and queue up blast bones in between HAs

CGPsaint

Armanie wrote: »

It seems Sorcerer is the most popular class for HA builds. Why is that? I've never played sorcerer so I have no idea. is it because they get 5% shock damage? Free DPS from pets? In this case Warden could be a good fit too?

I can't parse more than 70k on my HA magplar, and that's with very little penetration so it's probably even worse in real combat.

My Heavy Attack OakenSorc uses Unstable WOE and Razor Caltrops as active skills that are up during heavy attacking. My Heavy Attack Warden is similar, however swapping out Razor Caltrops for Shalks is a pretty hefty DPS increase. I'm hitting higher numbers on my Warden, but my MagSorc is much hardier thanks to Crit Surge. That being said, I generally pick which one I'm going to run based on the content that my group is doing.

JulLeBarge

Sorry to necro that post but I'm thinking about switching to a Heavy Attack build for my Sorcerer, only to tun 4-men PUG dungeons. But I don't have any mythic items, and I don't have access to them right now (no ESO+).
What would be a good setup for that purpose ? Storm Master/Sergeant's Mail/Maw of the Infernal with vMA back-bar staff ?

BXR_Lonestar

I'm using the oakensoul build with Seargants mail, Storm Master, and 1 piece slimecraw and I pull about 72k DPS without even trying hard. Its the easiest DPS setup I have ever seen, and I'm guessing a lot of people already have all of the pieces for this setup in their collections.

JulLeBarge

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm using the oakensoul build with Seargants mail, Storm Master, and 1 piece slimecraw and I pull about 72k DPS without even trying hard. Its the easiest DPS setup I have ever seen, and I'm guessing a lot of people already have all of the pieces for this setup in their collections.

Thanks but if I don't have Oakensoul ring, what monster set can I use ?

KlauthWarthog

JulLeBarge wrote: »

Thanks but if I don't have Oakensoul ring, what monster set can I use ?

You could use 1-piece Valkyn Skoria and 1-piece Slimecraw to get some penetration and crit.

BasP

JulLeBarge wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm using the oakensoul build with Seargants mail, Storm Master, and 1 piece slimecraw and I pull about 72k DPS without even trying hard. Its the easiest DPS setup I have ever seen, and I'm guessing a lot of people already have all of the pieces for this setup in their collections.

Thanks but if I don't have Oakensoul ring, what monster set can I use ?

If I were you, I'd probably go with something like this if you want a HA build without any Mythics:

Magicka Setup with Pillar of Nirn: 94206 DPS (used the wrong trait for the Maelstrom Staff)

Stamina Setup with Pillar of Nirn: 95426 DPS

Stamina Setup with Relequen: 102443 DPS

The biggest difference between those setups is one skill on the front bar by the way (Bound Armaments for the Stam setup and Crystal Fragments for the Mag setup).

Now I don't use a build like this on the live server, so there might be better options out there, but the DPS seems okay for a two bar Heavy Attack build.

I'd try the Maw of the Infernal monster set by the way, as I did in those parses on the PTS, as I believe its damage is increased by Daedric Prey too. It might be better than 1pc Slimecraw and another 1pc.

Edit: Ah, I see you mentioned Maw yourself too in an earlier post. If you want to do (mostly) dungeons with the build, I'd try to get Noble Duelist and use that set with Sergeant's Mail. The additional penetration from Light Armor will be nice to have, and I think that the long duration of the buff to Heavy Attacks (as well as the easy proc condition) seems especially nice for a Two Bar build, as you'll spend less time Heavy Attacking compared to an Oakensoul build (you'll preferably weave Light Attacks on your back bar when you refresh those skills, otherwise your uptime on Daedric Prey will fall off).