Unacceptable Damage

boi_anachronism_

Lol I'm the idiot who runs a full damage nb build right into the fray. I find it enjoyable but I definitely get hammered a fair bit. I need to try a brawler build. I don't think I'm designed to play stealth 😂

TheS1X

Caribou77 wrote: »

I 1v1’d an obnoxious nb ganker in a bg today who typifies the play style that gives other nbs a bad rap.

Chaosball, he’s hanging way back from the action on a cliff, waiting for players who are brawling over the ball to get low enough on health so that he can finish them off from 35m away.

End of the match he had by far the lowest score (350 or so) and also by far the best kill/death ratio.

I took time away from the ball to kill him 1v1 on my wussy MagDen. Nb bow gankers are… special.

You would be happy if he just runs into group of leaping DK's to get one hit death?

Caribou77

That’s an either/or fallacy.

There are myriad options between playing like a parasite and playing like a moron.

DrSlaughtr

This is a balorgs issue, imo. They likely hit you with a 300+ ultimate with that incap. That surprise attack and bow both crit.

Remember that a 500 balorgs gives you over 11k pen, on top of whatever you already have. Op's armor easily could have been completely negated, depending on the build, or at the very least significantly reduced.

NoSoup

fred4 wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well you are in luck because calurions is basically deleted from the game next patch and oaken is also nerfed. Just wait till next patch I suppose. Who knows what new and exciting thing our prey will come up with as an excuse for dying! Maybe the next best proc set? Isn't op today, but if it shows up in a recap after the patch releases it must be. Perhaps cloak will return to being the primary focus?
Never can tell what the newest cope will be, but regardless you will still get ganked next patch.

Oakensoul is adjusted to not be so overpowered. It isn't actually a nerf as most groups run someone that uses a set that provides major courage, so spell/weapon damage wise it is a buff. Some groups even run the horn in PVP making the oakensoul now even stronger. The bigger drop in damage will be from losing major berserk, but there is a set to give you that and now you can have both major and minor rather easily. As for major protection, just slot flare. The only buff really lost would be major heroism. That is if you play in a group.

As for calurions being adjusted, it is about time that gets put in line with other proc sets.

I realize my post was not very productive. I will tell you from experience that the hardest people to gank are not solely relying on passive defense from their sets to survive. Constantly be moving, blocking, and dodging even when no one else is around. Unless you are in your factions safe zone you should never stop being on guard or letting your buffs fall. The concealed weapon in your recap could have been dodged if you had reacted slightly faster and that is what ultimately sealed your fate. Personally I wouldn't rely on slippery to work, in my experience its slower then just breaking free yourself. I think its more designed for accessibility rather then being the fastest way to break free.

I didn’t have time to react. I was dead before I could even hit any buttons to react.

Yes, I'd say you didn't. You would only have had time to react with Miat's addon, on PC. Here's why, and why xxslam48xxb14_ESO's analysis is wrong: Ultimates have a 400ms delay. If you got stunned from Incap, then Caluurion and Concealed were both guaranteed hits in this particular combo. They hit 600ms after the Incap stun, but it would have taken 1000ms for Slippery or yourself to break free and for something like Zoal to counterstun the attacker. I'm not sure of how exactly Radiant Magelight acts, e.g. whether it only applies to the stun from out of crouch heavy attacks. I think it may be a specific counter only to that.

On the other hand, your time to react was when you got heavy attacked, before the stun. However the only way you would realistically do that - though you would do it fairly reliably - is with Miat's addon, on PC. This makes a sound and your reaction to that sound should be a dodge roll. After a while of using that addon, those dodge rolls become ingrained in your habits. You would have dodged Incap and Caluurion. Note also how Caluurion is dependent on the leading heavy attack. To coincide with the stun and proc Caluurion at all, the heavy attack was needed. This is ultimately the flaw of the attacker's combo. It won't work well against Miat-using targets on PC.

Being hit for 10K is high, but also not a complete surprise in the current patch. Probably a bunch of lucky crits. I have been hit for 15K Incap on my squishier builds. It's just that this patch has been extremely high damage. The previous patch was already high damage, then we got Oakensoul. Nightblades normally don't have all of those buffs upfront in a gank, or at all.

This doesn't detract from recommendations, such as moving all the time, blocking, dodge rolling, throwing Revealing Flares, occasional Magelight, wearing Sentry, and so on. As a nightblade I think twice of very active players or ones that constantly cast detection. Even if they don't see me, it's a deterrent or I may mess up my gank.

Next patch is in a week (on PC). Many things are changing. Caluurion. Oakensoul. Light and heavy attacks. Concealed is getting a buff, but all of the rest adds up to some hefty nerfs. Just wait.

Didn't the notifications from Miat's get killed off like 2 years ago?

OnGodiDoDis

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well you are in luck because calurions is basically deleted from the game next patch and oaken is also nerfed. Just wait till next patch I suppose. Who knows what new and exciting thing our prey will come up with as an excuse for dying! Maybe the next best proc set? Isn't op today, but if it shows up in a recap after the patch releases it must be. Perhaps cloak will return to being the primary focus?
Never can tell what the newest cope will be, but regardless you will still get ganked next patch.

Hi, I'm from the future. I can assure you that I still get ganked. However, I don't get 1-shot anymore. I actually have time to react, time to counter a NB coming out of stealth. The Caluurion's nerf is the best thing to happen to PvP in years. NBs have to actually participate in combat now. I see more brawlers and less gankers.

DrSlaughtr

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well you are in luck because calurions is basically deleted from the game next patch and oaken is also nerfed. Just wait till next patch I suppose. Who knows what new and exciting thing our prey will come up with as an excuse for dying! Maybe the next best proc set? Isn't op today, but if it shows up in a recap after the patch releases it must be. Perhaps cloak will return to being the primary focus?
Never can tell what the newest cope will be, but regardless you will still get ganked next patch.

Hi, I'm from the future. I can assure you that I still get ganked. However, I don't get 1-shot anymore. I actually have time to react, time to counter a NB coming out of stealth. The Caluurion's nerf is the best thing to happen to PvP in years. NBs have to actually participate in combat now. I see more brawlers and less gankers.

Caluurions has nothing to do with this. Even if it wasn't halved, it still wouldn't matter. There are proc sets that do nearly the same damage and are not being used because it is ineffective. What is going on is players have been given every advantage to survive massive damage and heal. There are no real fights. It's just heal contests, stalemates, and dragged out ulti-dump tug-a-wars.

I understand some people like this. Some people also like mayo on french fries.

Caribou77

Way more NBs in battlegrounds on xbox NA now. Some of the stamblades are pretty deadly, but those same old gank n hide bowblades are still… pesky without being a true threat. They like to hide and watch you brawl til someone’s health gets low and then try to steal a kill.

Who are those guys? What do they do for a living?

DrSlaughtr

Caribou77 wrote: »

Way more NBs in battlegrounds on xbox NA now. Some of the stamblades are pretty deadly, but those same old gank n hide bowblades are still… pesky without being a true threat. They like to hide and watch you brawl til someone’s health gets low and then try to steal a kill.

Who are those guys? What do they do for a living?

It's easier to pew pew than melee gank 😆

TheS1X

I don't know man, I feel like NBs are still ***.
And I don't see much NBs at BGs at all, mostly DKs, Necros and templars and wardens, then sorcs and then maybe NBs.

Anyways, I don't see this game being ever balanced, it's just impossible. There are just too many skills and sets with special crap and there is always some class that will thrive because it can abuse some op combination.

I totally see why devs focus on PvE and not on PvP.

Zabulus

stam NB in Cyrodiil is still very weak. Not even speaking of magNB...
Playing since 2014, NB main.
Only pvping. (pve if it's needed to get stuff for pvp)

Can't play on CP campain : too much lag its unplayable.
On NoCP campain my opinion :
I build for max damage, no regen (1200 stam regen 400 helth , 700 mag) Vamp2, Order watch 2 ... +10% on all skills ...
If i kill a lowbie in 2 sec i'm fine.
I've stopped to waste my time on target +28Khp, on groups etc.

If you feel NB is so strong : please feel free to contact me ingame : zabulus_sanguis no cp EU. I can't wait to hear you.

Kind regards

TheS1X

And that's the thing. NB builds all for damage to kill low health noobs ( mostly other NBs ) and because it focuses on damage it loses sustain and defense, so you play as paper.
I have now tried to build somewhat tanky NB with sustain and decent damage and I get rekt by DKs, Necros, Wardens and Templars - it actually feels like those classes are cheating because they do so much quick damage, their sustain is crazy and same time they are crazy tanky + healing their selves and others.
So, now as I tried to work my ass off to get melee NB working on BGs, I see how *** NBs are.
And stories about NBs roaming BGs is ***. I play against top players and there are no NBs and if there are, they usually hunt each other.
I can take bow ganker down with my melee build with 2 seconds but I can't do much against other classes.
I can only stay in group and steal last hits, kind of and trying to be alive middle of those leaps and dawnbreakers.
Now, as a bow ganker build, I feel like I can actually do a lot more for a team but it really depends on a map and playing as a paper man is a risky business and that's no joke. Whenever you get out from stealth you will be jumped on if you don't think things trough. - You die with few bombs for example and those are quick.

So, anyone who comes to talk about NBs doing too much damage while playing DK or some other official cheat class, go and git gud because NBs can take down only noobs.

PS: If u check total damage done at the end of BGs, NBs ususally are at bottom.

OBJnoob

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. Havent played much lately, and never was a good stealthblade.

I was a rather good brawler blade before they nerfed dark cloak though. It was a big nerf. A big annoying nerf. Now you still want to run it for the minor protection but the heal is trash so you just don't use it at all.

Anyway... The class has potential still, without invis, but it has become more of a debuff tank play style in my opinion. You can still build to win 1v1s, but in a group you're not going to secure the killing blows you once had. But that's okay right, as long as you're still being effective for your team.

Mass hysteria gives aoe major cowardice and power extraction gives minor cowardice. These are very powerful debuffs both to your targets damage and to their healing. Combine with soul tether and spin to win and you're overall a pretty useful teammate.

From a 1v1 perspective major+minor cowardice, major defile on ultimate, and some kind of cheesy cost increase poison is a pretty effective toolkit.

Just gotta adapt to the times.

Theignson

NB is still way OP. The skills have been way over buffed to fit together to a super combo.

The way you can tell something is OP in Zerodil is when suddenly everyone is running it.(This happened historically with the dot meta, the harmony necro meta, the initial dark convergence/ plaguebreak/Hrothgar, etc).

Now everyone i running the build that React/Pelican other streamers made. It is a crit based build , uses NMG and rallying cry, dw axes, ice staff-- on paper it doesnt look like much.

But it relies on NB skills that have been way overbuffed: Concealed weapon, refreshing path, and merciless resolve. If you combine these properly you see the 12k incap+ 20+K spectral bows.

1) Concealed weapon is way too strong. As a spammable it hits hard, that isnt the problem. It also sets enemies off balance-- this is key to the combo becuase they take extra damage. BUT it also provides10% damage bonus-- LOL-- give me a break-- this is ALWAYS up because of some bug with refreshing path. So used properly concealed weapon has 100% uptime of 10% damage boost-- absurd. BUT that is not all: concealed weapon gives Permanent 15% speed buff -- the SAME as ring of wild hunt!! Cmon ZOS. This means that with refreshing path (major expedition) the NB can do combo and then run away super fast if it doesnt kill.
2) Refreshing path is the key. The NB by going in and out of it gets 100% uptime to concealed weapon damage boost. Used to be to get minor force +minor expedition NB would use an entire set (gryphons)-- now just get it using OP skills. Oh yes, RP also gives major exp and heals!
3) Merciless resolve. This is insanely OP -- and you know boosters come and defend it-- but it is open and shut OP. This skill gives you 300 weapon damage just for light attacking. But then this NON utimate hits for 16-20k damage! So, you 1) use refreshing path to get your damage, 2) use concealed weapon to set of balance and get extra damage, then 3) BOOM 20k NON ultimate! OH but that isnt all-- you get HEALED for half by merciless resolve! Hahahah-- really insane-- so you can melee , deliver a huge hit and get rewarded with a 10k heal, then spring away with 45% speed boost.
4) so you land your 20k non ulti and the palyer isnt dead? Then just incap, your "weak" ulti" (compared to spectral bow) for 12k.

You would think that this build is a glass cannon? Not at all. Healthy offering is a huge heal, vigor is super boosted by the weaapon damage in the build, refreshing path heals, and you have the Huge burst heal from merciless resolve not to mention-- did we mention? you also use Phantasmal escape in this line up-- not only 20% reduction of AOE-- you get 100% reduction of dodge roll cost!
Hahaha-- the icing on the cake.
This is why when you gaze out upon the battle field these days, you see endless player rectangles on the ground-- that is refreshing path and yet another nB has watched twitch and adopted this build.

baselesschart

Theignson wrote: »

1) Concealed weapon is way too strong. As a spammable it hits hard, that isnt the problem. It also sets enemies off balance-- this is key to the combo becuase they take extra damage. BUT it also provides10% damage bonus-- LOL-- give me a break-- this is ALWAYS up because of some bug with refreshing path. So used properly concealed weapon has 100% uptime of 10% damage boost-- absurd. BUT that is not all: concealed weapon gives Permanent 15% speed buff -- the SAME as ring of wild hunt!! Cmon ZOS. This means that with refreshing path (major expedition) the NB can do combo and then run away super fast if it doesnt kill.

Concealed weapon in actuality doesn't hit that hard. I can get average of maybe 6-7k crits on it. There's another thing that allows nightblade to retreat from combat just as quick if not quicker. Its called shade, and its not overperforming in the slightest.

Theignson wrote: »

2) Refreshing path is the key. The NB by going in and out of it gets 100% uptime to concealed weapon damage boost. Used to be to get minor force +minor expedition NB would use an entire set (gryphons)-- now just get it using OP skills. Oh yes, RP also gives major exp and heals!

Concealed has always given minor expedition and you're just now complaining about it? Why would you use a set to get minor force when the best way to get it in PvP for a long time has been RaT. Honestly sounds like you're more frustrated with the ability to stack major and minor buffs than you actually are with refreshing path.

Theignson wrote: »

3) Merciless resolve. This is insanely OP -- and you know boosters come and defend it-- but it is open and shut OP. This skill gives you 300 weapon damage just for light attacking. But then this NON utimate hits for 16-20k damage! So, you 1) use refreshing path to get your damage, 2) use concealed weapon to set of balance and get extra damage, then 3) BOOM 20k NON ultimate! OH but that isnt all-- you get HEALED for half by merciless resolve! Hahahah-- really insane-- so you can melee , deliver a huge hit and get rewarded with a 10k heal, then spring away with 45% speed boost.

Yeah you get 300 for stacking light attacks but you lose it all when you go in for your big burst cause you end up using the spectral bow. Also to add, a few things need to come together in harmony for bow to hit those higher numbers. It needs to crit, you're likely going to need to have a balorgh proc off, your opponent will need to have lower crit resist, and it needs to actually land. If this was still the age of impen being meta, bow would not be hitting nearly as hard.

Theignson wrote: »

You would think that this build is a glass cannon? Not at all. Healthy offering is a huge heal, vigor is super boosted by the weaapon damage in the build, refreshing path heals, and you have the Huge burst heal from merciless resolve

It has good heals yes, but the overall damage mitigation is not that high. Maybe if zos didn't nerf dot damage, we wouldn't be in this position.

TheS1X

Geez!!! I just came from BG again... NBs suck! Again there was me and one other dude playing NB - BG with CP 2000 players.
We had lowest damage and we got rekt by sorcs and by everything else.
If something is OP, check other classes ffs...

Anyways, I'm off... gonna play something fun.

DrSlaughtr

baselesschart wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

1) Concealed weapon is way too strong. As a spammable it hits hard, that isnt the problem. It also sets enemies off balance-- this is key to the combo becuase they take extra damage. BUT it also provides10% damage bonus-- LOL-- give me a break-- this is ALWAYS up because of some bug with refreshing path. So used properly concealed weapon has 100% uptime of 10% damage boost-- absurd. BUT that is not all: concealed weapon gives Permanent 15% speed buff -- the SAME as ring of wild hunt!! Cmon ZOS. This means that with refreshing path (major expedition) the NB can do combo and then run away super fast if it doesnt kill.

Concealed weapon in actuality doesn't hit that hard. I can get average of maybe 6-7k crits on it. There's another thing that allows nightblade to retreat from combat just as quick if not quicker. Its called shade, and its not overperforming in the slightest.

Theignson wrote: »

2) Refreshing path is the key. The NB by going in and out of it gets 100% uptime to concealed weapon damage boost. Used to be to get minor force +minor expedition NB would use an entire set (gryphons)-- now just get it using OP skills. Oh yes, RP also gives major exp and heals!

Concealed has always given minor expedition and you're just now complaining about it? Why would you use a set to get minor force when the best way to get it in PvP for a long time has been RaT. Honestly sounds like you're more frustrated with the ability to stack major and minor buffs than you actually are with refreshing path.

Theignson wrote: »

3) Merciless resolve. This is insanely OP -- and you know boosters come and defend it-- but it is open and shut OP. This skill gives you 300 weapon damage just for light attacking. But then this NON utimate hits for 16-20k damage! So, you 1) use refreshing path to get your damage, 2) use concealed weapon to set of balance and get extra damage, then 3) BOOM 20k NON ultimate! OH but that isnt all-- you get HEALED for half by merciless resolve! Hahahah-- really insane-- so you can melee , deliver a huge hit and get rewarded with a 10k heal, then spring away with 45% speed boost.

Yeah you get 300 for stacking light attacks but you lose it all when you go in for your big burst cause you end up using the spectral bow. Also to add, a few things need to come together in harmony for bow to hit those higher numbers. It needs to crit, you're likely going to need to have a balorgh proc off, your opponent will need to have lower crit resist, and it needs to actually land. If this was still the age of impen being meta, bow would not be hitting nearly as hard.

Theignson wrote: »

You would think that this build is a glass cannon? Not at all. Healthy offering is a huge heal, vigor is super boosted by the weaapon damage in the build, refreshing path heals, and you have the Huge burst heal from merciless resolve

It has good heals yes, but the overall damage mitigation is not that high. Maybe if zos didn't nerf dot damage, we wouldn't be in this position.

All of this.

If someone faces a top tier nightblade, no matter the build, and fails to defend, they will get overwhelmed with damage. That's how it's supposed to work.

Don't go chasing waterfalls. In this instance, nightblades are the waterfalls. On the other side it's a 500 balorgs tether and/or assassin's will.

TheS1X

This PvP is doomed...
I actually lost all hope for PvP.

I hope that they focus making PvE more interesting and maybe add VOIP to PC. - because this game feels most antisocial online game on PC.

Caribou77

Hmm, good perspectives. I appreciate this as I dont really play nb, just against them in bgs. There’s a guy named Laz on Xbox NA who does really well as a stamblade in bgs, switching between 2handed and bow. He’s the only one that really stands out. He’s super fast and hits really hard, and somehow isn’t squishy at all.

I play MagWarden mostly, so maybe I’m not a great judge of squishiness, as Magden has no execute. But I do pretty well in bgs and Laz usually finishes near the very top. No idea what build he runs but I will ask.

mmtaniac

I stopped pvp after jabs nerf, have different classes but templar is life.

Holycannoli

Theignson wrote: »

NB is still way OP. The skills have been way over buffed to fit together to a super combo.

The way you can tell something is OP in Zerodil is when suddenly everyone is running it.(This happened historically with the dot meta, the harmony necro meta, the initial dark convergence/ plaguebreak/Hrothgar, etc).

Now everyone i running the build that React/Pelican other streamers made. It is a crit based build , uses NMG and rallying cry, dw axes, ice staff-- on paper it doesnt look like much.

But it relies on NB skills that have been way overbuffed: Concealed weapon, refreshing path, and merciless resolve. If you combine these properly you see the 12k incap+ 20+K spectral bows.

1) Concealed weapon is way too strong. As a spammable it hits hard, that isnt the problem. It also sets enemies off balance-- this is key to the combo becuase they take extra damage. BUT it also provides10% damage bonus-- LOL-- give me a break-- this is ALWAYS up because of some bug with refreshing path. So used properly concealed weapon has 100% uptime of 10% damage boost-- absurd. BUT that is not all: concealed weapon gives Permanent 15% speed buff -- the SAME as ring of wild hunt!! Cmon ZOS. This means that with refreshing path (major expedition) the NB can do combo and then run away super fast if it doesnt kill.
2) Refreshing path is the key. The NB by going in and out of it gets 100% uptime to concealed weapon damage boost. Used to be to get minor force +minor expedition NB would use an entire set (gryphons)-- now just get it using OP skills. Oh yes, RP also gives major exp and heals!
3) Merciless resolve. This is insanely OP -- and you know boosters come and defend it-- but it is open and shut OP. This skill gives you 300 weapon damage just for light attacking. But then this NON utimate hits for 16-20k damage! So, you 1) use refreshing path to get your damage, 2) use concealed weapon to set of balance and get extra damage, then 3) BOOM 20k NON ultimate! OH but that isnt all-- you get HEALED for half by merciless resolve! Hahahah-- really insane-- so you can melee , deliver a huge hit and get rewarded with a 10k heal, then spring away with 45% speed boost.
4) so you land your 20k non ulti and the palyer isnt dead? Then just incap, your "weak" ulti" (compared to spectral bow) for 12k.

You would think that this build is a glass cannon? Not at all. Healthy offering is a huge heal, vigor is super boosted by the weaapon damage in the build, refreshing path heals, and you have the Huge burst heal from merciless resolve not to mention-- did we mention? you also use Phantasmal escape in this line up-- not only 20% reduction of AOE-- you get 100% reduction of dodge roll cost!
Hahaha-- the icing on the cake.
This is why when you gaze out upon the battle field these days, you see endless player rectangles on the ground-- that is refreshing path and yet another nB has watched twitch and adopted this build.

Ahh so is that why I keep seeing Refreshing Path when it's an underwhelming skill?

DrSlaughtr

Holycannoli wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

NB is still way OP. The skills have been way over buffed to fit together to a super combo.

The way you can tell something is OP in Zerodil is when suddenly everyone is running it.(This happened historically with the dot meta, the harmony necro meta, the initial dark convergence/ plaguebreak/Hrothgar, etc).

Now everyone i running the build that React/Pelican other streamers made. It is a crit based build , uses NMG and rallying cry, dw axes, ice staff-- on paper it doesnt look like much.

But it relies on NB skills that have been way overbuffed: Concealed weapon, refreshing path, and merciless resolve. If you combine these properly you see the 12k incap+ 20+K spectral bows.

1) Concealed weapon is way too strong. As a spammable it hits hard, that isnt the problem. It also sets enemies off balance-- this is key to the combo becuase they take extra damage. BUT it also provides10% damage bonus-- LOL-- give me a break-- this is ALWAYS up because of some bug with refreshing path. So used properly concealed weapon has 100% uptime of 10% damage boost-- absurd. BUT that is not all: concealed weapon gives Permanent 15% speed buff -- the SAME as ring of wild hunt!! Cmon ZOS. This means that with refreshing path (major expedition) the NB can do combo and then run away super fast if it doesnt kill.
2) Refreshing path is the key. The NB by going in and out of it gets 100% uptime to concealed weapon damage boost. Used to be to get minor force +minor expedition NB would use an entire set (gryphons)-- now just get it using OP skills. Oh yes, RP also gives major exp and heals!
3) Merciless resolve. This is insanely OP -- and you know boosters come and defend it-- but it is open and shut OP. This skill gives you 300 weapon damage just for light attacking. But then this NON utimate hits for 16-20k damage! So, you 1) use refreshing path to get your damage, 2) use concealed weapon to set of balance and get extra damage, then 3) BOOM 20k NON ultimate! OH but that isnt all-- you get HEALED for half by merciless resolve! Hahahah-- really insane-- so you can melee , deliver a huge hit and get rewarded with a 10k heal, then spring away with 45% speed boost.
4) so you land your 20k non ulti and the palyer isnt dead? Then just incap, your "weak" ulti" (compared to spectral bow) for 12k.

You would think that this build is a glass cannon? Not at all. Healthy offering is a huge heal, vigor is super boosted by the weaapon damage in the build, refreshing path heals, and you have the Huge burst heal from merciless resolve not to mention-- did we mention? you also use Phantasmal escape in this line up-- not only 20% reduction of AOE-- you get 100% reduction of dodge roll cost!
Hahaha-- the icing on the cake.
This is why when you gaze out upon the battle field these days, you see endless player rectangles on the ground-- that is refreshing path and yet another nB has watched twitch and adopted this build.

Ahh so is that why I keep seeing Refreshing Path when it's an underwhelming skill?

They are only saying that because this is the easiest way to keep the concealed weapon buff active if you aren't running cloak. It isn't nearly as efficient as running cloak, IMO, but it works perfectly well.

The funny thing is, damage wise, concealed weapon doesn't seem to hit much harder for me than surprise attack, if at all, but I don't have a way to CMX on XB to be sure. I use both back and forth between two different characters that are otherwise identical set and bar wise.

baselesschart

ninjagank wrote: »

They are only saying that because this is the easiest way to keep the concealed weapon buff active if you aren't running cloak. It isn't nearly as efficient as running cloak, IMO, but it works perfectly well.

The funny thing is, damage wise, concealed weapon doesn't seem to hit much harder for me than surprise attack, if at all, but I don't have a way to CMX on XB to be sure. I use both back and forth between two different characters that are otherwise identical set and bar wise.

Looking at some of my clips, I roughly average 5-6k on surprise attacks, and those are relatively tanky targets. Squishy targets I usually hit for 8k+. This is before a balorgh proc as well. So I don't really feel like i'm missing out on that much damage by not running concealed weapon.

DrSlaughtr

baselesschart wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

They are only saying that because this is the easiest way to keep the concealed weapon buff active if you aren't running cloak. It isn't nearly as efficient as running cloak, IMO, but it works perfectly well.

The funny thing is, damage wise, concealed weapon doesn't seem to hit much harder for me than surprise attack, if at all, but I don't have a way to CMX on XB to be sure. I use both back and forth between two different characters that are otherwise identical set and bar wise.

Looking at some of my clips, I roughly average 5-6k on surprise attacks, and those are relatively tanky targets. Squishy targets I usually hit for 8k+. This is before a balorgh proc as well. So I don't really feel like i'm missing out on that much damage by not running concealed weapon.

You aren't. Consider how much a 10% damage boost is to your tooltips BEFORE any other modifiers are added and also before battle spirit eats away at your outgoing damage. It's not very much, and switching back and forth between concealed and surprise attack doesn't show me personally any major difference. It's just another thing to complain about by complainers.

MEBengalsFan2001

For those stating lag hit me you are wrong. I don't get lag all that often. In the past 6 months I only get lag when an event pulls in a lot of players. It doesn't seem to matter what zone those players are playing in as the server still seems to lag out. All other players who I run with see the same issue. So lag isn't a big issue on my end.

Secondly, my resistance starts off at 30K before Pariah and I also have quite a bit of damage reduction from abilities. Normally it takes 2+ players chasing me down to kill me. The NB who killed me simply got me and I can accept that for what it is.

Going against a NB yesterday on my tanky templar he could rip through my defenses like nothing (30k+ resistance and another 20% damage reduction. Yet he was tanky where I used both major and minor breach and had myself buff to over 20k pen and 8k weapon damage from balorgh and my hardest hitting ability was hitting him for 1K which usually can hit 10K+ on other tanky targets.

Here are ways I would balance the game out in PVP.

1) Battle Spirit stat adjustments and stat capsy by roles
2) No mythic
3) Update the game CC mechanics
4) Update abilities to have PVE and PVP specific damage/usage
5) Update gear to have PVE sets that cannot be used in PVP and PVP sets that cannot be used in PVE (including monster helms), and finally crafted gear can be used in both PVE and PVP. .

jtm1018

ninjagank wrote: »

This is a balorgs issue, imo. They likely hit you with a 300+ ultimate with that incap. That surprise attack and bow both crit.

Remember that a 500 balorgs gives you over 11k pen, on top of whatever you already have. Op's armor easily could have been completely negated, depending on the build, or at the very least significantly reduced.

This, exactly this.
As the nightblade says.
Hail Sithis!!!

MEBengalsFan2001

jtm1018 wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

This is a balorgs issue, imo. They likely hit you with a 300+ ultimate with that incap. That surprise attack and bow both crit.

Remember that a 500 balorgs gives you over 11k pen, on top of whatever you already have. Op's armor easily could have been completely negated, depending on the build, or at the very least significantly reduced.

This, exactly this.
As the nightblade says.
Hail Sithis!!!

The issue seems more around gear sets like monster, mythical etc... limiting what players can or can't use in PVP is one way to really help improve the PVP experience.

But at the same time, having all the various gear sets to use can allow some players to create very unique and fun builds though most don't. So maybe it is time to adjust what can and can't be used in PVP for gear sets.

DrSlaughtr

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

jtm1018 wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

This is a balorgs issue, imo. They likely hit you with a 300+ ultimate with that incap. That surprise attack and bow both crit.

Remember that a 500 balorgs gives you over 11k pen, on top of whatever you already have. Op's armor easily could have been completely negated, depending on the build, or at the very least significantly reduced.

This, exactly this.
As the nightblade says.
Hail Sithis!!!

The issue seems more around gear sets like monster, mythical etc... limiting what players can or can't use in PVP is one way to really help improve the PVP experience.

But at the same time, having all the various gear sets to use can allow some players to create very unique and fun builds though most don't. So maybe it is time to adjust what can and can't be used in PVP for gear sets.

They are running Marykyn ring, which only gives you 200 extra damage and some armor. 200 extra damage is less than a thousand on a tooltip. What killed you was a combination of balorgs and a critical strike from assassin's will. If balorgs' pen buff was cut in half, I think you'd see a lot of issues in Cyrodiil get fixed, imo, and I say that as someone who runs balorgs. So many builds are relying on this one set to cover 75%+ of their total penetration, which is why they do everything they can to build to as close to 500 ultimate as possible. Then you hit assassin's will and ultimate and rejoice.

Another issue you are running into is we aren't so much in a "tank" meta as we are in a heal meta. Pariah isn't really being used by many people. By the time it kicks in at full force, you're nearly dead, and if they have 20k to 25k penetration, it's not going to mean much. Honestly you'd be better off with Juggernaut or even Trial by Fire over Pariah. Another thing you could try is buffing your crit resist.

MalakithAlamahdi

Good to see there is still no reason to come back. Some things will never change I guess.

EmEm_Oh

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Wearing pariah and buffer of the swift and in one second I get killed by this. This type of damage is unacceptable. I have 2500 crit resistance and 33k resistance without anything else. I also had major protection and swift on and yet all of these damage mitigation did nothing. I also got stunned when the NB came out of stealth and I also have radiant light on my build so how did his heavy attack stun me. Slippery didn’t even trigger as well to break me free.

First thing in the morning and there is absolutely no lag.

This type of experience is bad enough for an experienced player but if it was someone new, this is why new players don’t stick around to play pvp. It’s not fun. Even when they are setup as a tank build.

I'm not completely sure, but maybe this was mostly a crit attack, and since you only had 2500, you still got hit hard (could have had 50K non-crit resistance and it wouldn't have mattered). This is another reason why I don't worry about attacks like this because no matter what a person wears or their stats, there's always somebody who can bypass them. In this case, the NB who hit you might have been upwards of near 100% crit dmg.