PSA - New broken set that will make you or your enemies unkillable.

TechMaybeHic

Holycannoli wrote: »

If there's no cooldown added it won't solve a thing, and it will keep Cyrodiil performance in the septic tank. I am convinced that the poor PC NA Cyrodiil performance is because of this set constantly being calculated over and over and over nonstop.

I feel like performance was degrading prior to the update. We were excusing it away as being from PTS being up. It only gets worse over time and we'll be right back to runberbanding, extreme position desync soon enough

Holycannoli

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

If there's no cooldown added it won't solve a thing, and it will keep Cyrodiil performance in the septic tank. I am convinced that the poor PC NA Cyrodiil performance is because of this set constantly being calculated over and over and over nonstop.

I feel like performance was degrading prior to the update. We were excusing it away as being from PTS being up. It only gets worse over time and we'll be right back to runberbanding, extreme position desync soon enough

It's so bad people are crashing now after the update, and that happens to coincide with the popularity of this new set that has no cooldown and procs continuously. Get a large enough battle in the same spot on the map and boom there goes performance and even your connection.

N00BxV1

rauyran wrote: »

It has an obvious counter: don't apply any status effects. Nirnhoned heavy attacks perhaps. My favorite is deadlands demolisher with a stun. 3 bashes a second with constant interrupts so they can't cast anything.

So what you're saying is don't equip any armor, weapons, enchants, poisons, skills, etc. and just go bare hands? Because almost everything can proc status/negative effects... Also the set says "negative effects", not just status effects.

All weapon types can proc status/negative effects. Weapon enchants can proc status/negative effects. CC including stun, slow, immobilize etc. are all negative effects. Debuffs including breach, maim, defile etc. are all negative effects...

[Edit for edit]

SaffronCitrusflower

Who could have predicted it? Oh, wait, check out the date the OP in this thread was made. (it was prior to the set going live)

U35 is so bad in too many ways to list. The numbers of players cancelling their subs and taking a break or quitting are real and for the most part justified; justified because there seems to be no end in sight for this kind of yo-yo updating if something like U35 actually goes live. It's just so frustrating for those of us that have loved and played this game for so many years to see it like this.

Necrotech_Master

N00BxV1 wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

It has an obvious counter: don't apply any status effects. Nirnhoned heavy attacks perhaps. My favorite is deadlands demolisher with a stun. 3 bashes a second with constant interrupts so they can't cast anything.

So what you're saying is don't equip any armor, weapons, enchants, poisons, skills, etc. and just go bare hands? Because almost everything can proc status/negative effects... Also the set says "negative effects", not just status effects.

All weapon types can proc status/negative effects. Weapon enchants can proc status/negative effects. CC including stun, slow, immobilize etc. are all negative effects. Debuffs including breach, maim, defile etc. are all negative effects...

[Edit for edit]

even unarmed combat i think technically does physical dmg, which still has a chance of applying sundered status effect

...in fact any dmg at all has a chance of applying status effects unless its straight up oblivion dmg

FrankonPC

logan_ESO wrote: »

Let's be honest, approaching PvP for a novice is a traumatic experience.
I think zos creates sets like Mara's, from time to time, to entice newbies to pvp.

If you're a newbie how do you find out about mara's? You beat your head against a wall dealing with it and find that the pvp is unenjoyable, so you leave.

A pvp with more balanced sets will always be better for new players. It's the overtuned and broken stuff that makes people not want to come back.

TechMaybeHic

So they said they are reducing the heal by half, which really misses the issue

taugrim

GarethDav wrote: »

Don't put it into the Rewards of the Worthy going forward until after the incremental patch. It should be as simple as removing it from the rng engine that grants Rewards for the Worthy.

Sure - there will be existing pieces still out there until then - so be it (can't believe those can be recalled and transmuted to something else from Rewards from the worth but sure the masses will revolt even more).

We just don't need any more of this shite out in the world until it is fixed.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

So they said they are reducing the heal by half, which really misses the issue

Yup.

The issue is that the proc scales based on the number of people attacking you, i.e. it's unlimited scaling. That's absurd. The proc needs a cooldown. That would bring it in line with other sets.

taugrim

rauyran wrote: »

It has an obvious counter: don't apply any status effects. Nirnhoned heavy attacks perhaps. My favorite is deadlands demolisher with a stun. 3 bashes a second with constant interrupts so they can't cast anything.

"You should totally build around countering one very broken set" is essentially what you are recommending. And a lot of key skills for class kits and weapon kits have negative effects tied to them.

marius_buys

Can confirm, this set is beyond broken. Back to 20 players running behind 1 guy trying to kill him. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Jaraal

marius_buys wrote: »

Can confirm, this set is beyond broken. Back to 20 players running behind 1 guy trying to kill him. [snip]

They obviously love gankers, as this set attracts parsers like moths to a flame. 20 players focused on an unkillable target is ganker heaven. Got time to check out the entire flock, pick the lowest health target, and send them back to camp.

[edited to remove quote]

ToRelax

Sidereum wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know that we are planning to reduce the healing done from this item set in the next incremental patch, which is currently scheduled for the week of September 5.

Not enough, not soon enough. You were warned weeks in advance that this would be a problem, and it was ignored.

Try again.

[snip]

They were explicitly told, from the beginning, that the proposed change is the one thing they should not do - same as with Nocturnal's. Extending the cooldown in one case and decreasing the heal value in the other are the most obvious and simple changes available, but they fail to make the sets into something that can actually be balanced - they are either too powerful or not powerful enough. That is what we told them, and that is why people are upset when they see these exact band aid fixes happen regardless.

[edited to remove quote]

TragedyOA

So Mara's is fixed now right???

Rowjoh

How on earth this set made it onto PTS in the first place then STILL made it to live, is beyond comprehension.

This goes down alongside 'Mythic lead in Murkmire safeboxes' as yet another calamitous howler.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Jaraal wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Can confirm, this set is beyond broken. Back to 20 players running behind 1 guy trying to kill him. [snip]

They obviously love gankers, as this set attracts parsers like moths to a flame. 20 players focused on an unkillable target is ganker heaven. Got time to check out the entire flock, pick the lowest health target, and send them back to camp.

I've seen this tactic in action. 1 unkillable tank wearing the set, sitting on a resource as bait with a small team of gankers standing by. Of course the bait never takes the resource, they just keep it lit. Cryodiil is becoming stale and boring because of the way the set used now.

BTW, as per an earlier comment I made in this thread, I predicted PvP ball group would like this set. Correction, ball groups love it.

[edited to remove quote]

Elendir2am

I would add my comment, which has no relevance to OP. I see some comments on, how should anybody die quickly, if attacked by 10 enemies.

As bruiser, who do "pushing through breach". Cyro gameplay need such build to be possible. Group of 12 could defend keep against anybody otherwise.

So I am building to be able survive through any heat for 10, max 20 second. Sometime I am successful, that I occupy defender long enough, so my fraction-mates get inside. Sometime I die without success (often because lag).

Rowjoh

And another thing,

The devs have spent years trying to balance PVP with particular focus on providing counter measures to ball groups and highly organised zergs.(Plaguebreaker, Dark Convergence, Hrothgar etc)

So now they not only reduce damage and nerf all the best offensive stuff, they bring Mara's Balm out - the ultimate immortal set for everyone and especially suitable for ball groups and zergs. (the upcoming nerf wont make much difference - its the cooldown that is the problem).

I guess its a novelty for any player to be able to stand in the same spot and easily survive while 20 players and an assortment of lancers, meat bags and seiges are trained on you, but novelties wear off after a while and even the meta crowd will eventually join the rest of us who find PVP stale and stinks the place out right now.

barney2525

Doesn't the " This effect can occur once every 15 seconds " apply to the entire statement ?

Crom_CCCXVI

EVERY PATCH FOR 2 YEARS IS ANTI-DAMAGE

all this game does is take away ways to kill people and make it easier to run away.... If you find a way to do a combo for more than 20k, guaranteed next patch it will be nerfed.

(unless it is a garbage Dark Convergence Ball Group and you are in a zerg of 40 people hitting someone for 4k, then you'll be fine)

Roztlin45

Why was dark cheese.not just removed from pvp like mara's? Is it really not possible to restrict some sets.and mythic items to pve only? Wouldn't that make it much easier to balance?

Mayrael

PvP Sourced

Mara’s Balm: Reduced the healing of this set by approximately 50%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We are continuing to monitor this set’s interaction with frequently applied debuffs - such as snares from ticking abilities - and are attempting to find better overall solutions to ensure this set remains impactful when being afflicted with many incoming negative effects, but not over bearing in other cases.

ZOS missing the point of this whole topic.

ForumBully

Mayrael wrote: »

PvP Sourced

Mara’s Balm: Reduced the healing of this set by approximately 50%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We are continuing to monitor this set’s interaction with frequently applied debuffs - such as snares from ticking abilities - and are attempting to find better overall solutions to ensure this set remains impactful when being afflicted with many incoming negative effects, but not over bearing in other cases.

ZOS missing the point of this whole topic.

More palms needed for an adequate face-palm. I'll wonder how many months of monitoring will be required for them to discover what anyone who plays the game knew as soon as they read the first PTS notes months ago?

TechMaybeHic

" attempting to find better overall solutions"

Like; a cooldown of 1 second? Or current value, half a second? Literally the code is there in Living Dark

Actually; I think we make it hard on them because they for some reason just cannot do whatever players suggest, no matter what. Just can't happen

ForumBully

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

" attempting to find better overall solutions"

Like; a cooldown of 1 second? Or current value, half a second? Literally the code is there in Living Dark

Actually; I think we make it hard on them because they for some reason just cannot do whatever players suggest, no matter what. Just can't happen

All the evidence needed is the slow evolution of stam whip...now it's even cost split between stamina and magicka since that's really the last half step they can take without simply doing what's been requested for years.

IZZEFlameLash

Now that you are done with this 'experimentation', can we now get a hotfix to add 1-2 seconds cooldown please, ZOS? It can heal for 300 in Cyrodiil and it will still be pretty much OP in any circumstances because as you apparently have forgotten, nearly every attack if not all attacks in this game does some sort of negative effect. These sorts of things are only controllable by cooldowns. Can you not see how it can scale to be OP in your spreadsheets?

Ralamil

We are continuing to monitor this set’s interaction with frequently applied debuffs - such as snares from ticking abilities - and are attempting to find better overall solutions to ensure this set remains impactful when being afflicted with many incoming negative effects, but not over bearing in other cases.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

[snip]

We are continuing to monitor this set’s interaction with frequently applied debuffs

[snip] Why the should we believe anything you say at this point when you consistently ignore the player base, [snip] and then shrug and go "No one could have predicted this would happen!"

and are attempting to find better overall solutions to ensure this set remains impactful when being afflicted with many incoming negative effects, but not over bearing in other cases

You mean like the suggestions folks have been giving out on the forums? Where even a 1s cooldown on the heal mechanic would still leave this as one of the most powerful - if not THE most powerful - defensive set in the game?

So what, are we going to have to suffer through a few months of this [snip]

[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Holycannoli

Ralamil wrote: »

So what, are we going to have to suffer through a few months of this [snip]

Basically yes, and the conclusion will be it needs a cooldown.

[edited to remove quote]

ForumBully

Ralamil wrote: »

We are continuing to monitor this set’s interaction with frequently applied debuffs - such as snares from ticking abilities - and are attempting to find better overall solutions to ensure this set remains impactful when being afflicted with many incoming negative effects, but not over bearing in other cases.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

[snip]

We are continuing to monitor this set’s interaction with frequently applied debuffs

[snip] Why the should we believe anything you say at this point when you consistently ignore the player base, [snip] and then shrug and go "No one could have predicted this would happen!"

and are attempting to find better overall solutions to ensure this set remains impactful when being afflicted with many incoming negative effects, but not over bearing in other cases

You mean like the suggestions folks have been giving out on the forums? Where even a 1s cooldown on the heal mechanic would still leave this as one of the most powerful - if not THE most powerful - defensive set in the game?

So what, are we going to have to suffer through a few months of this [snip]

Well, they can't just look at a set that has limitless potential healing per second due to the fact that they've attached disabling effects and statuses to countless abilities and somehow detect that it might be a problem?
This is the sort of thing that needs a lot of study. Gonna start a whole new spreadsheet for this baby.

[edited to remove quote]

kurbbie_s

MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »

If burst is king, and the proc only occurs every 15 seconds, I guess I'm wondering how impactful it really is? Couldn't you just...idk, trigger the set, open your 15 second window, and go ham?

it procs on any skill, or damage you send, there is no cooldown. set has ruined pvp.

kurbbie_s

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Well; hopefully players see that before going and golding out a set. Not because I don't want them to waste their time and get upset when its nerfed; I'lll laugh at that. But because I don't want to see this ridiculousness for even a very short bit

nothing they do to the set will help. Nerf the heal? Will still be overpowered. Add a cooldown to the heal? will make the set useless.
There is no positive outcome unless the change the set mechanically where it doesnt proc in every debuff and skill.