How to Fake Tank without Faking it!

FrancisCrawford

How is this expected to hold up to the Oakensoul nerfs?

How well could a second bar take the place of Oakensoul? Rune Focus and Ritual of Retribution (or the other morphs) seem pretty obvious to add. Ditto Reflective Light. But of course anything backbar could cut into the uptime for Sweeps.

svendf

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

Wanna avoid fake roles ? Then you have to avoid ESO xD. Pree made groups ? Sure, why not

More like, then you have to avoid MMOs? ESO is the only MMO I've ever played, but I assume this must be a common issue?

Hi sorry for late answere. I have to say, that the mmo I play now. You can´t fake role. That said both healers and tanks do damage also. They do have their role too, but if you got the experience you can do damage beside your main duty. It really depends on group.

ESO is actually the only mmo I know of, where you can fake role.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this expected to hold up to the Oakensoul nerfs?

How well could a second bar take the place of Oakensoul? Rune Focus and Ritual of Retribution (or the other morphs) seem pretty obvious to add. Ditto Reflective Light. But of course anything backbar could cut into the uptime for Sweeps.

@FrancisCrawford
I dont think we will be 100% sure until it goes live, but last time I read PTS, it was really more of a damage nerf than a mitigation nerf to oakensoul. The main focus of the nerfs was really aimed at PVP. Gankers and WWs are Broken OP at the moment. You may want to go from Destro Ult to Warhorn in better groups since we are definitely losing major force, although in bad groups, Destro Ult will still probably be better.

Last I looked, Major resolve was still on the ring, but please correct me if that has changed. It certainly should be there if this is supposed to be an accessibility item to raise the floor, less squishy pugs is a good thing, LOL. It's also precisely the type of back bar buff they should be trying to include. Assuming that's true, no need for rune focus. Sustain really isn't an issue on this build.

Ritual Of Retribution is a very solid skill. I was using it before I switched to Caltrops, and will still run if one of the DPS is running caltrops. But if it comes down to one or the other, caltrops is more damage because of AOE Major Breach. Its not a bad DOT either since hybridization. I really don't ever find I need a purge skill in this type of content.

One of the biggest issues with most fake tanks (DPS with a taunt, or maybe without), is that when a taunt is used, its almost always inner fire, so there is no source of Major Breach. Major Breach is pretty massive for damage. Its basically 1/3 of the pen necessary to get to the cap, so it really helps Group DPS, especially considering most pugs arent running enough pen to begin with. Whether or not you use this particular build, when fake tanking your should really slot both Inner Beast AND Caltrops. Its good for everyone, including your own parse.

Could you do better with a back bar and no ring? Probably, but I was really going for easymode here. Experienced players dont need my help with Random Normals, LOL. I cant overstate how easy this build is to play.

radiostar wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Kind of the linchpin to the whole operation. LOL.

omg THANK YOU for using the correct spelling of linchpin, versus the incorrect and offensive spelling that Z uses ingame.
It's almost like Z doesn't know English.

Your are welcome. Its amazing how often you see it the other way. It drives me mad.

Raammzzaa

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The title was a joke. It really is amazing. You try to post actual solutions to a problem on these forums, and people simply want to attack you.

I think the reason for the attacks is that most players think the solution is for people to queue for the appropriate roles in group finder, and to encourage more players to get interested in really tanking.

The question/concern that I have since your build appears, and you have clearly said, to have no trouble clearing random normals and non-DLC vets - what do you do when a vetDLC does come up? It seems like it would be frustrating for the whole group if anyone uses the vet queue with your build and a vDLC dungeon comes up. It definitely isn’t fun when the tank dies repeatedly, or just leaves right away since they know they’re in over their head.

DigiAngel

I will add that Dark Convergence and or Void Bash work wonders for grouping trash mobs and really speed up the entire process.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The title was a joke. It really is amazing. You try to post actual solutions to a problem on these forums, and people simply want to attack you.

I think the reason for the attacks is that most players think the solution is for people to queue for the appropriate roles in group finder, and to encourage more players to get interested in really tanking.

The question/concern that I have since your build appears, and you have clearly said, to have no trouble clearing random normals and non-DLC vets - what do you do when a vetDLC does come up? It seems like it would be frustrating for the whole group if anyone uses the vet queue with your build and a vDLC dungeon comes up. It definitely isn’t fun when the tank dies repeatedly, or just leaves right away since they know they’re in over their head.

When i run Vet DLCs, I almost always do with a pre-made. When I am in groupfinder, I usually play those as a DPS or bring a Proper Tank. I dont think Fake tanks are nearly as common in vet dungeons as they are in normal. I also realize even saying fake tank is going to cause people to get heated.

I run random normals for transmutes, and I run specific Normal DLCs for gear. That is really where this build evolved.

I wanted to be able to quickly and efficiently farm normal DLCs via groupfinder. This allows me to responsibly queue as a tank for fast queues, because as stated, I am more than doing everything reasonably required of a tank, and I can put out a LOT of damage so the dungeon itself is fast. Group DPS is much better than my old method of just slotting a taunt on a DPS, and the APMs required are significantly less. When I farm, I want Easy Mode.

Its funny, I have a proper tank with all the standard trial buff gear you could want. I can actually get through normal DLCs better with this build. My DPS with this build, more than outweighs the DPS gains from buffing pugs with my actual tank. LOL Now if you are telling me I am running with 3 other people that no what they are doing, then the opposite would be true, but that is NOT the group finder we live in.

FrancisCrawford

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this expected to hold up to the Oakensoul nerfs?

How well could a second bar take the place of Oakensoul? Rune Focus and Ritual of Retribution (or the other morphs) seem pretty obvious to add. Ditto Reflective Light. But of course anything backbar could cut into the uptime for Sweeps.

@FrancisCrawford
I dont think we will be 100% sure until it goes live, but last time I read PTS, it was really more of a damage nerf than a mitigation nerf to oakensoul. The main focus of the nerfs was really aimed at PVP. Gankers and WWs are Broken OP at the moment. You may want to go from Destro Ult to Warhorn in better groups since we are definitely losing major force, although in bad groups, Destro Ult will still probably be better.

Last I looked, Major resolve was still on the ring, but please correct me if that has changed. It certainly should be there if this is supposed to be an accessibility item to raise the floor, less squishy pugs is a good thing, LOL. It's also precisely the type of back bar buff they should be trying to include. Assuming that's true, no need for rune focus. Sustain really isn't an issue on this build.

Ritual Of Retribution is a very solid skill. I was using it before I switched to Caltrops, and will still run if one of the DPS is running caltrops. But if it comes down to one or the other, caltrops is more damage because of AOE Major Breach. Its not a bad DOT either since hybridization. I really don't ever find I need a purge skill in this type of content.

One of the biggest issues with most fake tanks (DPS with a taunt, or maybe without), is that when a taunt is used, its almost always inner fire, so there is no source of Major Breach. Major Breach is pretty massive for damage. Its basically 1/3 of the pen necessary to get to the cap, so it really helps Group DPS, especially considering most pugs arent running enough pen to begin with. Whether or not you use this particular build, when fake tanking your should really slot both Inner Beast AND Caltrops. Its good for everyone, including your own parse.

Could you do better with a back bar and no ring? Probably, but I was really going for easymode here. Experienced players dont need my help with Random Normals, LOL. I cant overstate how easy this build is to play.

radiostar wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Kind of the linchpin to the whole operation. LOL.

omg THANK YOU for using the correct spelling of linchpin, versus the incorrect and offensive spelling that Z uses ingame.
It's almost like Z doesn't know English.

Your are welcome. Its amazing how often you see it the other way. It drives me mad.

Thanks! That makes sense.

I'm an older player with questionable reflexes and situational awareness, but one thing I've never had an issue with is bar swapping. Logitech 300 series mice are cheap, and give 2-4 extra buttons that are easy to use (depending on one's personal perception of "easy"). The easiest button of all gets bar swap assigned to it.

Alchemical

Here's a detailed guide to 'convincingly pretending you are a tank without putting in any actual effort''

Tormentor 5 pc + Stampede 2-handed skill.

Kay that's it, end of guide.


Real talk though, we need to kill the stigma that someone is a 'bad' tank if they crutch on tormentors, because as we know the vast majority of 'tanks' in RDN queue aren't wearing optimized (or any) tanking gear either. It's a very accessible set that lets literally anyone capable of spamming AoEs hold aggro and it is more than adequate for random normals.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this expected to hold up to the Oakensoul nerfs?

How well could a second bar take the place of Oakensoul? Rune Focus and Ritual of Retribution (or the other morphs) seem pretty obvious to add. Ditto Reflective Light. But of course anything backbar could cut into the uptime for Sweeps.

@FrancisCrawford
I dont think we will be 100% sure until it goes live, but last time I read PTS, it was really more of a damage nerf than a mitigation nerf to oakensoul. The main focus of the nerfs was really aimed at PVP. Gankers and WWs are Broken OP at the moment. You may want to go from Destro Ult to Warhorn in better groups since we are definitely losing major force, although in bad groups, Destro Ult will still probably be better.

Last I looked, Major resolve was still on the ring, but please correct me if that has changed. It certainly should be there if this is supposed to be an accessibility item to raise the floor, less squishy pugs is a good thing, LOL. It's also precisely the type of back bar buff they should be trying to include. Assuming that's true, no need for rune focus. Sustain really isn't an issue on this build.

Ritual Of Retribution is a very solid skill. I was using it before I switched to Caltrops, and will still run if one of the DPS is running caltrops. But if it comes down to one or the other, caltrops is more damage because of AOE Major Breach. Its not a bad DOT either since hybridization. I really don't ever find I need a purge skill in this type of content.

One of the biggest issues with most fake tanks (DPS with a taunt, or maybe without), is that when a taunt is used, its almost always inner fire, so there is no source of Major Breach. Major Breach is pretty massive for damage. Its basically 1/3 of the pen necessary to get to the cap, so it really helps Group DPS, especially considering most pugs arent running enough pen to begin with. Whether or not you use this particular build, when fake tanking your should really slot both Inner Beast AND Caltrops. Its good for everyone, including your own parse.

Could you do better with a back bar and no ring? Probably, but I was really going for easymode here. Experienced players dont need my help with Random Normals, LOL. I cant overstate how easy this build is to play.

radiostar wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Kind of the linchpin to the whole operation. LOL.

omg THANK YOU for using the correct spelling of linchpin, versus the incorrect and offensive spelling that Z uses ingame.
It's almost like Z doesn't know English.

Your are welcome. Its amazing how often you see it the other way. It drives me mad.

Thanks! That makes sense.

I'm an older player with questionable reflexes and situational awareness, but one thing I've never had an issue with is bar swapping. Logitech 300 series mice are cheap, and give 2-4 extra buttons that are easy to use (depending on one's personal perception of "easy"). The easiest button of all gets bar swap assigned to it.

Also, looks like I was wrong about the nerfs being focused only on damage. It does appear that Major Protection is becoming Minor Protection (Templars already get Minor Protection). We still get Major resolve, so no real need for something like Rune Focus, but losing Major protection will hurt this build for sure. Will be a little less tanky when spamming sweeps. Probably wont matter in Normals, but it will make it less optimal for easier Vets. I do always carry a classic heavy armor tank setup when I queue as a tank, but I almost never need it with this build.

drsalvation

AvalonRanger wrote: »

"How to Fake Tank without Faking it! "

?????? I can't understand purpose of this thread.

Tank is the tank. No other things except it.
If you queue with your non tank build character as tank, then it's just cheating.
You're simply bad player.

ESO can have multiple characters, and also can exchange items with your other characters
through the your bank storage. Just build decent Tank character instead of cheating.

There's nothing in this game that motivates players to make a great tank build, or healing build, it's all about DPS, that's why there's just DPS dummies and why solo arenas like vateshran have DPS checks. So why would anybody want to make a fun tank build when you can just DPS and queue as tank and blast through all dungeons (at least vanilla or normal dlc)?

One would think Armory would fix that, have a tank build and then switch to the important build (DPS), but nope.
Now it's just a slot for PvE DPS, and PvP DD.

Veinblood1965

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Didnt realize the title would be so controversial. It was a joke, lol.

These forums are filled with complaints about "fake tanks" AKA, DPS that queue as a tank to skip the queue, but usually are ill suited for the role of tank. The point is, this build is a good way to do that without causing rage threads. Its a build that is a blend of a DPS (for those that want to put out high damage and ensure the dungeon doesnt take an hour), but also to satisfy the essential functions of a tank (Dont Die, Taunt/chain bosses and adds, and give a lot of group penetration).

In other words, its a very easy to play Tank/DPS hybrid build that should never cause issues if you queue as a tank. You will be miles ahead of your average tank with the debuffs you are providing, and you will pull more DPS than 95% of people that you encounter in GF, with an absurdly easy rotation.

It's not a problem with the player, who wants to wait 30 minutes in a queue? It's a problem with the game design when a non-tank role character can perform better than the actual role.

FrancisCrawford

Alchemical wrote: »

Here's a detailed guide to 'convincingly pretending you are a tank without putting in any actual effort''

Tormentor 5 pc + Stampede 2-handed skill.

Kay that's it, end of guide.


Real talk though, we need to kill the stigma that someone is a 'bad' tank if they crutch on tormentors, because as we know the vast majority of 'tanks' in RDN queue aren't wearing optimized (or any) tanking gear either. It's a very accessible set that lets literally anyone capable of spamming AoEs hold aggro and it is more than adequate for random normals.

Speaking of Tormentor's -- there are several AoE options: The one you mentioned (all classes), plus I think one each for Templar and Nightblade.

Is there any major difference in the options' efficacy -- radius or whatever?