Dont take stun from Surprise Attack ability, it will be disaster.

Falcon_of_light

First of all this change with once per 4 sec guaranteed crit will do nothing, in pve every nb have already really high crit chance, so its will be something like +3% to dps in bis gear, but pvp stamblades will literally die and i will tell you why.
1. This "buff" will do NOTHING good in pvp, most "procs" of 100% crit it will be guted by another guarantee crit from cloack or crit chance itself.
2. Stamblade are not facetanking another classes, its just doesnt work like this, so it will make a chain of nerf for pvp stamblade -> cc is mandatory so you will give up execute ability to get cc -> cc what u can get what somehow usable for nb is nb class fear -> now your already manathirsty stamina class (cloack and clone) will need now not a defencive\buff backbar but sustaine one = nb losing all damage AND execute damage to finish something AND survivability.
Its not a hurr-durr whine, its straight up killing the class and its playstile, u will be needed to buff something else to hilariously broken state in next, because nothing normal will not save absolutelly broken class in pvp after this change what will affect drastically pvp and pve balance (cause u will not admit that u just did huge misatke and will not revert changes if this abomination of a class change will go in live server, i know you). Or you just forget this class and make thousands of nb mains just want to quite the game, because this will be a really huge istake and absolutelly undeserved nerf.

Jaimeh

Yup, the stun was basically carrying the gank, without it the punch it packs is nothing. It's not just this class, without CC a lot of playstyles become obsolete, but the problem with stamnb is that it doesn't have any other avenues. They are killing the class for pvp if this goes through. Imo, SA is fine as it is on live, they just needed to buff some magicka-based skills, to bring magNB on par, and that would be fine. Why they can't tweak in small changes and have to completely stomp over something is anyone's guess. Please leave the stun in SA, it was what made the skill unique and one of the most useful tools in NB's kit @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Hotdog_23

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

Falcon_of_light

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

No problem, give nightblade streak, will call it shadow jump and sorcs can have this overpowered once per nothing from the moon guarantee crit, deal?

Falcon_of_light

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

And buff the heck of nb so they can facetank other classes what can other do... Nb was balanced around SA, [snip] its just doesnt work without cc spamable. If u just dont want see nightblades in pvp - just admit it, dont make this [snip] statesments. And you know that this change just will make nb absolutelly trash who will cant do anything in pvp except bombing.

[edited for rude/insulting comments]

p4l4mu7

This skill was overloaded, give it any buff you'd like but that stun needs to go, it is melee spammable almost hits as hard as dizzy if not harder, it has no cast time and it stuns you on cooldown. Tooltip says attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy however this isn't working as intended nbs attacking me infront of me facing me and I still get stunned, if the stun is going to stay they have to adjust flank window for pvp so it doesn't have a 360 degree window.

Ash_ShadowDragon

As a Stamblade main I actually like the change. The stun on surprise attack was essentially random, removing it allows me to time my burst with a well timed stun. Sure this removes my execute, but I have not felt I needed an execute the last couple patches so I dropped it months ago!

Dagobertfuk

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

Supriseattack always had a stun from invisibility. It wasnt added, it was always there.

Vetixio

Surprise attack is already the hardest hitting spammable and currently one of the most overloaded skills atm, removing the stun will improve counterplay. All other classes have to slot a CC now Nightblades will have to do that rather than having the strongest spammable with a stun attached to it.

Ash_ShadowDragon

Falcon_of_light wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

And buff the heck of nb so they can facetank other classes what can other do... Nb was balanced around SA, [snip] its just doesnt work without cc spamable. If u just dont want see nightblades in pvp - just admit it, dont make this [snip] statesments. And you know that this change just will make nb absolutelly trash who will cant do anything in pvp except bombing.

[edited for rude/insulting comments]

From stealth you get a guaranteed stun unless someone has mage light one there bar… but who does these days?

Removing the stun allows for a proper timed stun in a burst window, this change is amazing. If you disagree then I can only assume you’re looking at this change from a gankers point of view.

gariondavey

Still sets off balance
When target is off balance you just medium weave and stun them. It is way more unpredictable. This is a good change if you are good on nb.

Tommy_The_Gun

Some people say it is a nerf, some it is a buff. I am a NB main and personally I think it is both. It is a huge nerf, for pretty much every NB build out there (PvE & PvP), unless you run NB PvP ganker build. Then it is a buff. It is wierd that they nerfed it in places where it wasn't actually causing NB to overperform.

The thing I find kinda concerning is that in update 35, NB is getting pushed more & more into ganking spec. It all happens at the expense of every orher type of NB playstyle. In order to use the full potential of the NB class in PvP - you will have to gank or bomb.

NB received a lot of nice & long awaited changes in U35, but I get the feeling that it is all overshadowed by "Surprise Attack Drama".

Currently it is one of the best spamables in the game. There are other good spamable skills, but there are also terrible ones that should be brought up (buffed). Imho touching Veiled Strike & morphs was a mistake.

Because now we have a skill that can proc off-balance and can automatically critically strike every 4 seconds, but it has the "flanking" condition on top of all that. So in order to take advatage of the guaranted crit, you need to somehow position yourself so that every 4 seconds you need to be behind the target & hope server will register that.

Now if you played as a NB, then you probably realise how hard SA is to land more than one time. In order to have 2 or 3 hits in a row, your target must be CC-ed or else they will dodge it, as SA is well telegraphed. Without a stun, this means that you will actually have to use different CC (or even the initial hit will be dodged), or you need to approach stealthed / invisible.

And now the most important point. SA received guaranteed crit instead of stun to compensate (I guess) for the stun removal. Harder to land, but it gets more damage if you land it. But now that the crit part has 4 seconds cooldown, it kinda defeats the purpose. NB can still have guaranteed crit strike with cloak, and if you have a build that has like 37% crit chance (most NBs have higher crit chance to take advatage of class passives), then SA simply put - has a "dead weight" effect, as you won't notice the "guaranteed crit" part anyways. All you will notice is that everyone is dodging it.

Tldr:
Here is what I think is going to happen:
Almost every NB (PvE, PvP, does not matter) will most likely switch to either Dizzying Swing (if they are pure stamina based) or they will switch to Concealed Weapon, as it does everything better & is more universal. You won't notice that you are missing Sundered effect as every non-LA/HA physical dmg can proc it. You won't notice that you can not have guaranteed crit as you still have it with cloak.

I think that for real this time mag NB may actually be better than stam NB at pretty much everything (but I fear that stam NB stigma will remain for a long time as people don't tend to update their opinions patch per patch).

Surprise Attack will still remain decent spamable, but... but decent and nothing more. By any means it won't remain amongst "the best spamables in the game". It will move one or two tiers lower.

Runkorko

Its a good change. If you want a CC, slot a CC skill like rest of the classes.
With time NB got all toold other classes have, i see no need to have stun added to his spammable skill. Stun you can apply on demand, Its so easy to flank someone, even more on servers outside pc NA.
Glad stun is gone. They can let it be in pve, i dont care.

xDeusEJRx

Runkorko wrote: »

Its a good change. If you want a CC, slot a CC skill like rest of the classes.
With time NB got all toold other classes have, i see no need to have stun added to his spammable skill. Stun you can apply on demand, Its so easy to flank someone, even more on servers outside pc NA.
Glad stun is gone. They can let it be in pve, i dont care.

I disagree. it's a buff to gankblades but a blatant nerf to any nightblade who uses dark cloak because most of them can't hide in order to combo on people so getting a stun on someone is considerably more difficult for non-cloak nightblades

And the reason most nighblades don't use our class CC is because fear doesn't synergize with our clunky burst combo because incap/soul harvest > merciless resolve/relentless focus both have a cast/travel time attached so EVEN if you CC them prior there's no guarantee that lands due to the animations to even fire both abilities off

It's going to help gankblades because they don't have to care since they can medium weave out of invisibility, but hurt nightblades who can't crutch on shadowy disguise.

MetallicMonk

Now the mass majority of NB players who exclusively gank and are incapable of healing themselves when taking damage will look massively different than the few good NB players in PvP, what a tragedy really.

shadyjane62

Any nerf to NB's is welcome.

Looking at you gankers after two weeks of being stabbed in the back while I turn in a writ.

I am rank 39 not a noob, but I do not appreciate low life gankers.

xDeusEJRx

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Any nerf to NB's is welcome.

Looking at you gankers after two weeks of being stabbed in the back while I turn in a writ.

I am rank 39 not a noob, but I do not appreciate low life gankers.

I hate to break it to you, this will hardly affect gankers. They can just incap you from stealth as incap is guaranteed to stun with 120 ultimate. Then they follow up with concealed weapon with its now 10% damage done modifier. If gankers are your problem, they will be stronger now. It's just a nerf to non-ganker nightblades.

Lady_Galadhiel

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Any nerf to NB's is welcome.

Looking at you gankers after two weeks of being stabbed in the back while I turn in a writ.

I am rank 39 not a noob, but I do not appreciate low life gankers.

Gankers are just a bunch of wannabe Pvp'ers who can't survive real fights. I have seen Pve'ers with more backbone than any ganker.

Naftal

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Any nerf to NB's is welcome.

Looking at you gankers after two weeks of being stabbed in the back while I turn in a writ.

I am rank 39 not a noob, but I do not appreciate low life gankers.

Gankers are just a bunch of wannabe Pvp'ers who can't survive real fights. I have seen Pve'ers with more backbone than any ganker.

True. Also tankers. They need their tanky builds with snb and still run away around towers and boxes.

Where are all the real players who can survive without ganking or tanking?

shadyjane62

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Any nerf to NB's is welcome.

Looking at you gankers after two weeks of being stabbed in the back while I turn in a writ.

I am rank 39 not a noob, but I do not appreciate low life gankers.

I hate to break it to you, this will hardly affect gankers. They can just incap you from stealth as incap is guaranteed to stun with 120 ultimate. Then they follow up with concealed weapon with its now 10% damage done modifier. If gankers are your problem, they will be stronger now. It's just a nerf to non-ganker nightblades.

Doesn't matter what they do after two weeks I won't be here except for 20 minutes in the morning.

I really wish I hadn't subbed for year.

katorga

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

Not only that but the Dev's specifically said that. ZOS specifically nerfed dizzy swing, Crystal Frags, and other skills with stuns. Then they turned around, violated their own statement and added one to Surprise Attack.

Ankael07

Falcon_of_light wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

No problem, give nightblade streak, will call it shadow jump and sorcs can have this overpowered once per nothing from the moon guarantee crit, deal?

I was curious as to when this post would be about nerfing sorcerers

MashmalloMan

Ankael07 wrote: »

Falcon_of_light wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Must disagree, no spammable should had a stun attached to it. It was an mistake when they added it to SA in the first place.

Stay safe

No problem, give nightblade streak, will call it shadow jump and sorcs can have this overpowered once per nothing from the moon guarantee crit, deal?

I was curious as to when this post would be about nerfing sorcerers

Most of their comments have been about stealing Sorc skills, seems they're playing the wrong class.

master_vanargand

Streak has stun.
Surprise Attack does not have stun.
Why? where is the game balance?

Everaen

I don't do a lot of PVP, but I will say I've loved this ability in PVE.

It's great crowd control. Taking on big packs of enemies and juggling stuns and damage to dice them all down. And being able to peel/stun mobs off friendlies in a dungeon just feels... fun.

Now it will just do more damage, I guess. The crit change is weird to me. Almost feels more like a placebo to make a player feel like they're getting something rather than losing something. My NB's crit is already so high, I feel like it's pretty rare that I don't crit with this ability in live today.

More damage can be fun too, I suppose. Just seems like NB lost a unique aspect of its playstyle with this change. I'll miss it.

MashmalloMan

master_vanargand wrote: »

Streak has stun.
Surprise Attack does not have stun.
Why? where is the game balance?

You're comparing a spammable to a utility skill. They're not remotely the same. Are you being sarcastic?

CameraBeardThePirate

Sorry but surprise attack not stunning is a buff if you know what you're doing. It still applies off balance, which means you can now control your stun instead of having it attached to your spammable. Nightblade also still has access to two other on demand stuns, which is a whole 2 more than other classes.

Falcon_of_light

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

This skill was overloaded, give it any buff you'd like but that stun needs to go, it is melee spammable almost hits as hard as dizzy if not harder, it has no cast time and it stuns you on cooldown. Tooltip says attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy however this isn't working as intended nbs attacking me infront of me facing me and I still get stunned, if the stun is going to stay they have to adjust flank window for pvp so it doesn't have a 360 degree window.

1. its hard 20% less then dizzying so you lie.
2. Just a lie, it wasnt work stun in face, u let s0meone go behind your back because you are bad.
3. This skill is overloaded yes, but other skills of nb just doesnt work like ambush or pure *** - like everything else.
4. So maybe nb get tankiness of dk after this path? or maybe Sorc best in the gamegapcloser+nonbloackable+stun+aoe+ not targetable? - no. Nb was balanced around 3 spells - cloack, SA and clone - one of this spells are guted, so now nb in weakest position to other classes. And you know it, u just like it because u are fatfinger baddy...

Falcon_of_light

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sorry but surprise attack not stunning is a buff if you know what you're doing. It still applies off balance, which means you can now control your stun instead of having it attached to your spammable. Nightblade also still has access to two other on demand stuns, which is a whole 2 more than other classes.

ZSorry but nb have worst in the game gapcloser who is slowest in the game and doesnt work in 80% of the time and dont follow enemy like other one, and nb cant facetank like other classes can etc etc etc. nb was balanced around sa, and off balance have 15 sec imune, you hypicrite. No problem sorcs can have SA but instead nb get streak, and dk can have consuming darkness but give nb dragon leap and corrosive armor, deal?

Dagobertfuk

Funny how all people write that the stun is to strong on supriseattack blablabla. Other classes need a extra cc ability, while nb got it in his main spammable blablabla. But nobody of them loses a word about that the stun can happen all 15 or 17 seconds and if some other target got offbalance cd from someone else it also doesnt work.[snip]

[edited for bashing]

Falcon_of_light

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

Funny how all people write that the stun is to strong on supriseattack blablabla. Other classes need a extra cc ability, while nb got it in his main spammable blablabla. But nobody of them loses a word about that the stun can happen all 15 or 17 seconds and if some other target got offbalance cd from someone else it also doesnt work. [snip]

Yea, dk can have useless nb fear, and we got Shattering Rocks what are cc, damage and heal?