Adding buffs to dummy over and over is not a good idea

Lykeion

In this 8.1.4 PTS update dev has added the Elemental Catalyst buff to dummies. This is a common buff that many teams will use in the Trials. But it brings some problems. Giving too many buffs to dummies makes it difficult to compare damage between versions. Adding buffs makes it difficult to compare damage between versions, and one needs to convert to deduce the damage value on the original dummy from the new dummy.

Also, assuming I'm a Khajiit stamblade (which I am), I don't need to slot a single crit damage CP to achieve 125% crit damage on a live dummy with the help of the medium armor passive skill. And after the dummy adds the elemental catalyst buff, I can't benefit from it at all, because no matter how I adjust the outfit, the crit damage it increases will be seriously more than 125%. This part of the damage is completely wasted. Data overflow problems prevents Khajiit stamblade (and other classes in the future maybe) from getting real and valid analysis data, and puts it at a disadvantage when comparing parses.

Devs have been adding various buffs to the dummy, most of which will be used in the actual trial. But devs can not ignore a problem: in the actual combat situation buff often can not achieve 100% coverage. In the previous patch, zos added Major Slayer for the dummy. Currently, the source of the Major Slayer is usually from RO. But even with the help of Jor, the theoretical maximum coverage of Major Slayer is only about 76%. The same is true for Elemental Catalyst. The difference in coverage between an unskilled user and a skilled user is huge, and even when used by a skilled user, the coverage does not reach 100%. In the case of these buffs not reaching 100% coverage, I think that controlling the number of buffs can better reflect the real combat situation.

In short, I think dev should reduce and keep the number of buffs given by dummies in the long-term in order to help players get more accurate and sustainable analysis. And should also avoid data overflow problems, as Khajiit stamblade now encountered.

INM

I'm convinced that it was done ONLY to soften the feelings of nerfs and complicate comparastion. People even now directly compare numbers on the atro with numbers we had in 2016 on non-buffed dummies. Even the atro isn't exactly the same as it used to be in the introduction.

Tannus15

i'm totally fine with it, though i wish it was more carefully thought through which buffs we get and don't get.

i think major slayer is a terrible buff to put on the dummy as there are a bunch of dps sets which apply this buff and adding it to the dummy will make it very difficult to check if those sets are worthwhile (master architect, lokkestiez, etc)

major and minor courage, major and minor breach are pretty much guaranteed from every trials group regardless of experience level.
I think all the crit damage buffs should be there since there is a cap on that so it's pretty easy for a trials group to max that stat and otherwise people might mistakenly thing the shadow is a good mundus

FantasticFreddie

The only reason to add a buff to week 4 of the pts is to muddy the waters and further complicate comparisons between pts parses and live.

Tannus15

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

The only reason to add a buff to week 4 of the pts is to muddy the waters and further complicate comparisons between pts parses and live.

no, skinny cheeks literally requested it to be added in his video a week or 2 ago.

he specifically requested for EC to be added to the dummy so that light armour setups can be more fairly compared to medium armour setups

FantasticFreddie

Tannus15 wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

The only reason to add a buff to week 4 of the pts is to muddy the waters and further complicate comparisons between pts parses and live.

no, skinny cheeks literally requested it to be added in his video a week or 2 ago.

he specifically requested for EC to be added to the dummy so that light armour setups can be more fairly compared to medium armour setups

And dozens of people have requested they update the dummy on live for it to be a fair comparison with PTS. We know they will stealth nerf stuff on live, heck they even do it outside of a pts cycle (rip lifesteal proccing SPC), so why not do that?

Treeshka

Maybe this dummy should be reworked and players should be able to select buffs through a menu and then parse. Like if someone does not want to parse without Elemental Catalyst effect then player can easily deselect it and parse.

gariondavey

Treeshka wrote: »

Maybe this dummy should be reworked and players should be able to select buffs through a menu and then parse. Like if someone does not want to parse without Elemental Catalyst effect then player can easily deselect it and parse.

Now this is a good idea

Donlup

Imo it is very important to keep the dummy up to date with the newest buffs and debuffs there among the used sets in optimized trial settings, the idea of getting to toggle stuff on and off its appealing to say the least but there is a very simple overlooked option that should be on papir very easy to implement.

When something is changed the pts should include a legacy dummy that is as is on live and the new updated one.
In the cause with update 35 it would then be a legacy update 34 and a week 1 and week 4 variant it can even use the same model and so on with a different name.

The main issue with updating the dummy is that it makes comparing parses from patch to patch very hard often muddying the waters ppl are reaching 130k again now but that is with major slayer at 100% and EC at 3 stacks at 100% so it would be very safe to assume that 130k on week 4 pts is nowhere near 130k on live even given the changes to light attacks, weapon sets and skills.

Everest_Lionheart

Parsing on the dummy is nothing more than a mini game. Yes it’s good to practice and get comfortable on a rotation, or to test your sustain if that is even a thing anymore.

When most players get to a trial and start switching sets and skills and start dealing with actual mechanics all of that time spent on the dummy only translates to weaving. The skills may need to hit in a different order. The fight may be mobile and certain dots need to be refreshed at a new location while sticky dots will remain. Stacks on certain sets may drop and need to be built up again.

Content is nothing like the dummy, yet the game keeps getting balanced around the dummy.

Donlup

While this is correct this is not the subject of the thread please dont derail it