Is anyone actually going to take accountability for this?

katorga

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

ZOS also needs to publish the vision and plan. Open communication is best so everyone knows where we are going and headed, and everyone can help keep the ship from drifting to far from their goal and vision for the future.

Literally, why publish a vision and plan? They cannot stick to their stated objectives in a single PTS cycle.

All I see are snarky tweets and and "waah waah waahs" about their customer base.

Necrotech_Master

katorga wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

ZOS also needs to publish the vision and plan. Open communication is best so everyone knows where we are going and headed, and everyone can help keep the ship from drifting to far from their goal and vision for the future.

Literally, why publish a vision and plan? They cannot stick to their stated objectives in a single PTS cycle.

All I see are snarky tweets and and "waah waah waahs" about their customer base.

they kind of did post a "vision/plan" earlier in the year, it suggested "no more major combat overhauls" and what do we have 4 months after that? extremely major combat overhaul lol

BahometZ

So many players I know have left, are leaving or plan to leave once this next patch goes live. Others are planning to step back from raiding, while others are cancelling eso+ in protest. All of them have expressed disappointment in the combat teams entire methodology, the lack of consistency, the way changes are half-cooked, disconnected from actually experience, then reverted when the obvious finally sinks in. People are genuinely perplexed at how the devs might actually kill the end game. Raid teams are falling apart and merging due to the way the game is being mishandled.

Does ZOS think this is an over the top reaction? Wait till you see player numbers next patch. You can point at spreadsheets all day, but perception is reality, and how people feel about the game will trump any calculations.

Jaraal

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

ZOS also needs to publish the vision and plan. Open communication is best so everyone knows where we are going and headed, and everyone can help keep the ship from drifting to far from their goal and vision for the future.

Literally, why publish a vision and plan? They cannot stick to their stated objectives in a single PTS cycle.

All I see are snarky tweets and and "waah waah waahs" about their customer base.

they kind of did post a "vision/plan" earlier in the year, it suggested "no more major combat overhauls" and what do we have 4 months after that? extremely major combat overhaul lol

It's like the little boy who cried wolf. So many obvious contradictions and direction changes, and yet we're expected to "trust the process?"

Elsonso

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I could go on, but the bottom line is, U35 is the way of the devs to tell me: Your past progress has been nothing but an unwanted side effect of our previous balancing mistakes, in actuality you are not good enough for any of this. Go decorate houses or something.

Maybe that is the ultimate reasoning behind ToT... have something else in the game for the people who can't do combat anymore?

Lady_Galadhiel

Just did read in my Craglorn trading guild that most plan to stay till U35 and then decide if they will take a break or not.
Some mentioned the unwanted side effect of the ones who didn't plan to leave or were unsure, after they will see more empty towns they might decide to leave too.

VaranisArano

Firstmep wrote: »

We essentially went full circle, a patch that's supposed to help accessibility essentially became a mass of disjointed random changes instead.
Big picture, no one is better off, no one is happy.
But they did make changes to, errr make changes? I guess.
At least I hope they can spend the next 2-3 updates untangling this mess, that was needlessly created.

And then after those 2-3 updates, they'll post something like "We heard your complaints about change fatigue, so we're slowing down the pace for this update."

shadyjane62

VaranisArano wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

We essentially went full circle, a patch that's supposed to help accessibility essentially became a mass of disjointed random changes instead.
Big picture, no one is better off, no one is happy.
But they did make changes to, errr make changes? I guess.
At least I hope they can spend the next 2-3 updates untangling this mess, that was needlessly created.

And then after those 2-3 updates, they'll post something like "We heard your complaints about change fatigue, so we're slowing down the pace for this update."

I won't listening by then.

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

We essentially went full circle, a patch that's supposed to help accessibility essentially became a mass of disjointed random changes instead.
Big picture, no one is better off, no one is happy.
But they did make changes to, errr make changes? I guess.
At least I hope they can spend the next 2-3 updates untangling this mess, that was needlessly created.

And then after those 2-3 updates, they'll post something like "We heard your complaints about change fatigue, so we're slowing down the pace for this update."

Yeah... sadly, the time for them to wake up to change fatigue, and take it seriously, was last year.

Ambrokid

Cancelled back in 2019. Heard some good things a few months ago and came back. But ‘Fool me once…fool me twice’. I feel bad for those at ZOS who are trying their best and listening but getting overruled, and I’m sure there are some. I feel bad for those players who have been loyal and stuck with them through the years and can’t anymore. The changes are so dramatic and misaligned, this game has always felt like it was in BETA. Want to hold them accountable? Only one way to hurt a business that doesn’t care about customer satisfaction: their wallets. Good luck all! I truly hope those who stick around enjoy the game. It’s just not for me anymore.

KMarble

Faulgor wrote: »

Just wait for Update 36 when they inevitably walk the previous update back, like they always do.

In the 3 months it will take for them to start to fix what they did, I'll become more proficient in another game and ESO will have an even smaller pull than it does now.

I started playing another game when AWA was on PTS*. I suspect that many of the people now trying to make the devs see the devastation U35 will cause at best didn't pay attention, and at worse, called many of us "gate keepers" back then. Many of the complaints about communication now were raised back then. The writing was on the wall and so I decided to spend my money on greener pastures.


* The main reason I did so was because I realized that even though fixes would be done to prevent only one char being able to fully go through all the stories in the game, the attitude of the devs wouldn't change. The refusal to listen, the bizarre blind spots, the eagerness to adopt ideas without thinking about potential backlash in adjacent systems... all of it is present again in this PTS cycle.

VaranisArano

shadyjane62 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

We essentially went full circle, a patch that's supposed to help accessibility essentially became a mass of disjointed random changes instead.
Big picture, no one is better off, no one is happy.
But they did make changes to, errr make changes? I guess.
At least I hope they can spend the next 2-3 updates untangling this mess, that was needlessly created.

And then after those 2-3 updates, they'll post something like "We heard your complaints about change fatigue, so we're slowing down the pace for this update."

I won't listening by then.

You probably won't be the only one. If they let this go Live over the strenuous objections of their attentive playerbase (and they probably will), and then start walking it back because of the blowback when it goes Live from the greater number of players who play but didn't pay attention to the hubbub, and then compound the problem by "standardizing" all the wild changes they've made to appease people like Empower over the next few updates, it's going to drive more players away.

It's a gamble they're making that if they can get over this hump, then most players who stick around past this update will have enough sunk cost to stick around while ZOS "fixes" what they broke this patch.

And the Devs might even be right about making that gamble. Just like there's a lot of players losing hope right now, there's still a lot of players who'll follow the carrot on a stick hoping this next Patch makes it better, and then the next patch after that, and the next patch after that. All the while, there will be new, naive players coming in who don't have change fatigue yet.

EmilyElizabethESO

I doubt anything will happen. It's always one step forward two steps back with them. It's just sad because we're only upset because we love the game so much but we're done with all the chaos.

Quethrosar

patches won't bother most people because it is what it is.
doubt many people will notice a difference. Only the stat watchers.

edward_frigidhands

Quethrosar wrote: »

patches won't bother most people because it is what it is.
doubt many people will notice a difference. Only the stat watchers.

It will bother you if your game experience changes, that will happen whether you watch your stats or not.

Faded

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I could go on, but the bottom line is, U35 is the way of the devs to tell me: Your past progress has been nothing but an unwanted side effect of our previous balancing mistakes, in actuality you are not good enough for any of this. Go decorate houses or something.

Got the message, loud and clear.

Ouch. I hope this message gets through.

Necrotech_Master

EmilyElizabethESO wrote: »

I doubt anything will happen. It's always one step forward two steps back with them. It's just sad because we're only upset because we love the game so much but we're done with all the chaos.

this patch feels more like 2 steps backwards and then sliding down a cliff, and the only reason we didnt hit the bottom was the few good parts of this update lol

IZZEFlameLash

Quethrosar wrote: »

patches won't bother most people because it is what it is.
doubt many people will notice a difference. Only the stat watchers.

Yeah no. Even the average light attack spamming bow users will definitely notice that they die far more often than usual and the boss not dying fast enough.

katorga

Quethrosar wrote: »

patches won't bother most people because it is what it is.
doubt many people will notice a difference. Only the stat watchers.

omg, do some PUG RND's after the patch drops. The majority of the players have no idea what changes take place each patch, and flail around trying to figure out why nothing works like it did the night before.

When ZOS did noProc tests in PVP, the first week I was running into players still wearing their proc builds

JerBearESO

the changes made this patch are very...low IQ. the direction it takes things makes no sense.

like cutting dive applies a bleed straight up but oh no not while the enemy is off balance fwew thats important somehow. its not, it does nothing and means nothing; theres not even a way to twist it into having meaning.

also the obvious DontPlayBlade architype where you heal more by not moving. this is rediculously stupid. no one wanted that ability touched. everyone wants the shadow ult reworked.

and so on....

THE REALITY:
the design team's leadership roles need to be looked at. the people in charge of design leadership are responsible for this mess. its that simple. they have been... its not even enough to say dropping the ball. theyve loaded the ball into a spudgun and fired it straight through the ground and into its grave where it now resides.

maybe instead of constantly reworking the game in undesired ways, ZoS should rework theyre design team

YandereGirlfriend

Faulgor wrote: »

Just wait for Update 36 when they inevitably walk the previous update back, like they always do.

This is likely true but it will take longer than one patch cycle (so bon voyage to MagDens - maybe we'll see you again after Update 40, FeelsBadMan).

An easy example of this was the giga-nerf of the Necromancer Death Knell passive from 10% per skill to 4% that happened a year or so ago.

Everyone and their bantam guar pet knew (and provided empirical evidence) that the nerf was WAY too heavy-handed but they went ahead and rammed it through anyway.

And now, lo and behold, it's getting buffed back up to 8%, which is right around where it should have been when it was adjusted a year ago.

So, if it feels like most of these Updates are just exercises in digging holes only to fill them back in again... it's because they largely are. And we should all have solidarity with those classes that get caught up in the process.

Necrotech_Master

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Just wait for Update 36 when they inevitably walk the previous update back, like they always do.

This is likely true but it will take longer than one patch cycle (so bon voyage to MagDens - maybe we'll see you again after Update 40, FeelsBadMan).

An easy example of this was the giga-nerf of the Necromancer Death Knell passive from 10% per skill to 4% that happened a year or so ago.

Everyone and their bantam guar pet knew (and provided empirical evidence) that the nerf was WAY too heavy-handed but they went ahead and rammed it through anyway.

And now, lo and behold, it's getting buffed back up to 8%, which is right around where it should have been when it was adjusted a year ago.

So, if it feels like most of these Updates are just exercises in digging holes only to fill them back in again... it's because they largely are. And we should all have solidarity with those classes that get caught up in the process.

its possible they could still somehow make warden worse than what it is now, the same could be said for any class lol

honestly though if they really wanted to see "smaller numbers", should have gone back to the time of the game where "high" hp was 3000-3500 lol (you know before they scaled all the numbers way up, but it didnt actually change much effectiveness in the game lol)

boi_anachronism_

Quethrosar wrote: »

patches won't bother most people because it is what it is.
doubt many people will notice a difference. Only the stat watchers.

I'ma disagree with this. Some patches- yes casual players didn't notice but this patch there are so many major changes it is impossible not to. Even when someone has been playing a month they will say "hang on a tick, why is my 10sec skill now 20?". I can say that with confidence as someone who can in not too long ago from Skyrim and had never played an MMO before. I would absolutely notice. Then I'd go on the interwebs and search it and then inevitably end up here or another message board. Regardless of what people think of the patch new folks will not be encouraged when the first thing you discover is that a company doesn't care about player retention. If I had known that back when I likely would have quit a month In.

renne

It's hard enough to get a raid team together on my timezone as is (east coast Australia evening/night, PS-NA), it'll be impossible after this patch goes live. I've already quit raiding - and very nearly the entire game - because of I don't have the energy to get knee deep on a prog just for this to be the prog's future, and I definitely won't be going back to raiding on the new patch.

Change to improve the game is good.

Change for the sake of change sucks. Wholesale nerfs have never been for the betterment of any game.

edward_frigidhands

JerBearESO wrote: »

THE REALITY:
the design team's leadership roles need to be looked at. the people in charge of design leadership are responsible for this mess. its that simple. they have been... its not even enough to say dropping the ball. theyve loaded the ball into a spudgun and fired it straight through the ground and into its grave where it now resides.

maybe instead of constantly reworking the game in undesired ways, ZoS should rework theyre design team

I rarely agree with comments like this but I have to say this fits the bill and what most people are feeling right about now.

This is not a player issue or a game issue.

This is a leadership issue. And I am wondering where it is right now because I certainly did not see leadership when the patch notes were released for 8.1.0 and I still don't.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

They don't need to take accountability for something they're doing and have set in motion.

Wile it might be yours, mine, or others that think they're heading in the wrong direction. That doesn't mean they owe you an apology or need to take accountability.

It's their game, their vision and you can like it or leave it. That's the nature of reality.

Your only recourse is to make an informed choice about how you want to spend your time.

Enundr

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

They don't need to take accountability for something they're doing and have set in motion.

Wile it might be yours, mine, or others that think they're heading in the wrong direction. That doesn't mean they owe you an apology or need to take accountability.

It's their game, their vision and you can like it or leave it. That's the nature of reality.

Your only recourse is to make an informed choice about how you want to spend your time.

both correct and incorrect , if you need an example on why your incorrect i will point you to Cyberpunk 2077 and alot of the blame (ie accountability) was put towards the management. an apology not so much , but even in a business , someone is ALWAYS made to take accountable when things go wrong. that is the nature of reality as well as we can take it or leave it , which at this rate will be leave it with how much negativity this update is getting. Businesses always do this , accountability , putting the blame on someone(s) , throwing someone under the bus , whatever you want to call it , its all the same.

ApoAlaia

Elsonso wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I could go on, but the bottom line is, U35 is the way of the devs to tell me: Your past progress has been nothing but an unwanted side effect of our previous balancing mistakes, in actuality you are not good enough for any of this. Go decorate houses or something.

Maybe that is the ultimate reasoning behind ToT... have something else in the game for the people who can't do combat anymore?

Guess I will find out.

The way things are looking now, with those pesky HMs not hogging my energy anymore once U35 hits, there will be plenty of opportunity to explore ToT.

I gave it a shot when it was released but for the most part felt like time that would be best spent elsewhere however with 'elsewhere' no longer being an option... who knows.

Minalan

The fundamentals of business haven’t magically changed because Wheeler said so. If the player base is cut in half or less, there will be layoffs at ZOS. Eventually this will directly affect the people making these terrible decisions. Uninstall. Don’t pay. Don’t play.

Microsoft will not put up with a loss leader forever.

Ragnarok0130

VaranisArano wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

We essentially went full circle, a patch that's supposed to help accessibility essentially became a mass of disjointed random changes instead.
Big picture, no one is better off, no one is happy.
But they did make changes to, errr make changes? I guess.
At least I hope they can spend the next 2-3 updates untangling this mess, that was needlessly created.

And then after those 2-3 updates, they'll post something like "We heard your complaints about change fatigue, so we're slowing down the pace for this update."

Indeed, and then they'll slow roll exactly one patch and the patch after that here's another major combat overhaul again. Honestly I'll never trust this combat team ever again.