Pet Sorcerer

Zodiarkslayer

KilianDermoth wrote: »

Maybe you should read the whole conversation before replying. It was about the backbar staff choice and explicitly about AOE fights...

Who uses Force Pulse or especially Crystal Frags on his backbar or in AOE fights!?
And who even activates Inner Light in PVE at all?
And the damage you loose on Flappy while on backbar doesnt matter that much.
And what is even an Bumpy?

While usually:
Instable wall of elements (most used destro backbar skill): AOE
Many DoTs (like a lightning form morph, a lightning splash morph, mystic orb): AOE
Volatile Familiar (activated effect): AOE
Initial hit of both Atros (even the greater one): AOE
(While dawnbreaker is very often front bared because of the extra 1% spell damage, the atro is often back bared and even the single target morph would gain extra damage from a lightning staff because of the initial hit if you switch to frontbar directly after the cast)

Conclusion: You probably just replyed without reading... 🙀

And btw. I tested both, flame and shock. In non optimized groups or even solo, the difference is neglectible, sometimes the shockstaff even yields better results. And because there is no clear winner in this scenario it is just a personal decision which one you choose.

Also for the frontbar staff choice, I just cite my self, 2 posts back:

KilianDermoth wrote: »

So front bar: flame staff!

Backbar choice is less impactful, like previously mentioned, since it is your goal to stay on the frontbar as long as possible, anyway. And damage is better on FB, because you have one more 4 and 5 piece bonus.
Also AoEs get updated to your frontbar stats and passives. Even the backbar glyph's magnitude gets updated, if you use Torugs Pact on the fronbar, for example.
So there are no Lightning Staff passives as soon as you are on the frontbar.

Debating backbar choices is only relevant, if you have synergies with set piece effects or passives. Examples are Elemental Catalyst, Burning Spellweave, or Warden's Glacial Presence.

And please keep community rules in mind.... 👍

KilianDermoth

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Zodiarkslayer

I'd like to stay on my frontbar, where I have more spell damage, more penetration, more crit chance, more crit damage, I have an additional 4 piece bonus, the powerful 5 piece bonus of my frontbarset and my most powerful abilities (that can include shields while I solo).

Obviously I cannot speak for all players, but I think the above mentioned are pretty good reasons to not stay on the backbar for too long.

Also, not speaking for all players, I choose my backbar weapons for their synergy with my sets and passives. And I would recommend that to anyone who asks, everytime.

If someone wants to seperate single target and AoE abilities by their bars, I would assume they know what they are doing. However, I would point out that there is a trade off (i.e. utility for power) and that this trade off might not be the best choice for everyone.

On a more personal note, I lament the current imbalance, that favours Inferno Staffs over Lightning Staffs in nearly all scenarios. I would love to have a viable shock themed sorcerer.
And we haven't even talked about animations, their canceling and how important that is for weaving and consequently for DPS, where the clear victor in all cases is, again, the Inferno Staff, even on the backbar.

KilianDermoth wrote: »

... no one, except you, was considering a lightning staff for front bar. No one...

Can I get a quote, please? I'd really like to clear up the misunderstanding.

And please keep community rules in mind.... 👍

Petoften

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If he isnt using expensive potions he will loose another slot because of mage light or camouflaged hunter. Because not doing so would highly criple the single target damage.

Currently, my frontbar is crystal fragments/daedric prey/empowered ward.

Backbar is unstable wall of fire/critical surge/boundless storm.

What would you suggest I adjust in that, for the above or at all?

I usually sort of hit each, and then spam crystal fragments, repeat in 20 or 30 sec, maybe heavy attacks for mana.

Zodiarkslayer

@KilianDermoth
Exactly! Couldn't agree more.

But to try and explain myself a little better, I want to say, that I like to keep a general perspective on the forums, as often as possible. In my opinion that helps readers to absorb not just specific information, but learn about the rationale behind it. If I find the correct words to say it, that is. ( 😔 Sry again, that one was on me...)
You know, get the reader to make the judgement call himself/herself the next time.
I also think this helps players deal with the constant combat changes and new META each patch. Changing information, but identical rationale behind it.

This is actually why I repeated your statement about using the Inferno Staff for the frontbar. I felt it was the most important info from your previous posts, but it got drowned a little in all the other hands on very good information.
By putting it down in a condensed form, I tried to highlight it, not invalidate or even challenge it.

Now on the Lightning Staff backbar topic...
I get the impression, that with "AoE situations" you have a specific picture in mind. And I guess it is the AoE trash fights in Trials, normal and veteran. Or elite adwaves during Bossfights, where you can't swap abilities. Something you also rarely see outside of trials.
And to use a Lightning Staff on a dedicated bar seems to me the best way to go. Totally agree. In this case.

However, my own experience says that this case (difficult AoE situations, eg in Trials) is one of 5% to maybe 10% of all in game encounters, where the Lightning Staff clearly pulls ahead of Inferno;
In about 60% Inferno is the better choice; in about 30% they are so close, that swapping gear and abilities is often more effort than its worth. Or I would be gaining only one or two GCD by comparison, which isn't that much.

So generally I am leaning toward Inferno over Lightning.

Zodiarkslayer

Petoften wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If he isnt using expensive potions he will loose another slot because of mage light or camouflaged hunter. Because not doing so would highly criple the single target damage.

Currently, my frontbar is crystal fragments/daedric prey/empowered ward.

Backbar is unstable wall of fire/critical surge/boundless storm.

What would you suggest I adjust in that, for the above or at all?

I usually sort of hit each, and then spam crystal fragments, repeat in 20 or 30 sec, maybe heavy attacks for mana.

To recommend anything specific, we would need to know for what content.
Solo, Group, Arenas. Damage dealing, Support maybe?
Normal or Veteran difficulty?

And what do you feel where you are lacking or where you are strong. Survival, Sustain, Damage?

And best say what sets you decided to use, right now. That might open up some possibilities.

Petoften

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

To recommend anything specific, we would need to know for what content.
Solo, Group, Arenas. Damage dealing, Support maybe?
Normal or Veteran difficulty?

As a pet sorc, I think the role is damage. Maybe there's some design where they can play a support role in a group providing buffs to others, but I'm not familiar with it and it's not what I'm looking at.

I'd think I should plan for vet.

I see it as sort of escalating. I've been doing some vet dungeons including hard mode bosses, it goes well. What are next steps? Add in trials, vet trials, solo world bosses, or who knows what. Maybe at some point I use a different build for 'raids'.

And what do you feel where you are lacking or where you are strong. Survival, Sustain, Damage?

Not sure, all could be improved I think. Survivability isn't bad with pet heal but sometimes there are 1 shots.

And best say what sets you decided to use, right now. That might open up some possibilities.

That's what I'm looking at now. Set suggestions above are medium and heavy, I still think of a sorc as light armor. I started farming some Medusa, but notice the recommendations are basically all about crit.

So I had been looking at mad tinkerer's, then Medusa and tzosomething are suggested. Also looking at monster set.

Petoften

Hate how you can't edit on this forum.

Zodiarkslayer

Petoften wrote: »

Hate how you can't edit on this forum.

Forum Website has two versions, mobile and desktop.
For mobile view: There is this little cog symbol in the top right of your post. Hit it and the edit button pops up at the bottom of your screen.
For desktop view: The cog symbol is also at the top right of your posts, but the edit button pops up right underneath the cog.

Zodiarkslayer

Okay, so I am reading veteran group content as the goal here.

So with veteran group content I would always give out the goal to get normal trials gear for the body parts and a damage set for the frontbar, Maelstrom Staff backbar (Inferno or Lightning... 😉), one Mythic (ideally the Kilt) and a one piece Monster set on the helmet. And then later farm perfected.

But to start out I recommend to have Mother's Sorrow on the Body and Order's Wrath for the frontbar and jewellery. They are very easy to get and still powerful enough until you can farm normal trials gear and powerful dungeon gear with your progression group. There are a lot of other options, but those two do not involve hours of farming, just buying and crafting.

Abilities: Depends. Generally (for pugging).

• drop empowered ward and use Inner Light instead.
• Once you start Trials Spell Power Pots are mandatory. That spot would be a "sticky DoT", like Consuming Trap, Degeneration or Mystic Orb for example.
• Use the Tormentor Pet, it is more damage, albeit not much anymore, but it adds up on Boss fights.
• Crit Surge and Blood Magic combined are enough for self healing in Pugs, even if the healer fakes healing or is just plainly bad.
• Frontbar Ultimate should be a Dawnbreaker morph for all fighters guild passives, whatever you fancy.
• Boundless Storm is unideal for group content. In Trials you get the Buff from your friendly neighbourhood's Warden and the DoT has only 5m range. You want to stay away from enemies, more than just 5m. No damage from this ability. IF you stay that close however, we are already talking about being hybrid sorc or stam sorc with melee weapons.
• Instead you should run more AoE DoTs to raise your AoE damage. I use lightning flood, but not everybody likes it. Some use Razor Caltrops, because as a Stam ability it eases your Mag consumption.
• Keep Crit Surge for group dungeons. In Trials that spot should be a AoE or sticky DoT, whatever you can sustain or the Trial demands.
• the minor Force buff is a must in Trials you will need to find a way to squeeze it in when the time comes.

KilianDermoth

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Zodiarkslayer

No. No. You misunderstand.

I am understanding OP that he wants to progress towards doing Trials and then later (maybe?) try veteran Trials.

So my recommendations are not focused on how you optimize as a vet Raider. I imagine the Raidlead is going to have a word or two to say as well. I see no use discussing that here.
But how to get there is what I think the op has as a goal. @Petoften should correct me here, if I am wrong.

So, I say aquire strong easy to get gear and then work yourself from there.
Do some Pug Trials to get your preferred Trial set. Whorl of the depths is looking really sexy at the moment, others are great too.
Normal Claudrest is one of the most requested Pugs out of Belkarth and it isn't that difficult. If you are lucky the others are throwing their Siroria pieces at you. Probably the best choice next patch, anyways.

And the Trial gear would replace the weaker of the two starter gears, on the body, in my case Mother's Sorrow. Of course, if you take a look at ONLY MS+OW, then it is completly right to put MS on the frontbar. But that's not the goal, as I understand it. The goal is to replace MS as fast as possible. I wouldn't even uprade MS to gold level, to be honest.

At that point you have a really strong setup for almost anything that comes next. Which is to find the most suitable frontbar set and farm that completly, to have all weapon options.

So optimizing the Monster set, getting a good Mythic, or two, or three..

And of course, now you can optimise your front bar set. That can be Tzogvin or Medusa, if you have no bar space for Barbed Trap and want to stay at range.
Kinras or Pillar of Nirn, if you find a spot for a minor Force ability. But in that case you would be better off to put away the Staff away and use Daggers, because you now have to stay in melee range.

Maybe even consider farming all...

Zodiarkslayer

An open question to the floor:
Why am I supposed to stay in melee range as a ranged DD with a ranged Weapon, ranged Spammable, Pets doing ranged Damage, etc.?
Because I do not get it. As long as I stay between the Healer and the Boss, I should be totally fine, shouldn't I?

Edit: Was the debuff for ranged Light Attacks or specifically Staff and Bow Light Attacks? Can you get full melee LA damage, when you are in melee range with a Staff?

KilianDermoth

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Zodiarkslayer

KilianDermoth wrote: »

... Whether kinras nor pillars of nirn force you to stay in melee. Both work perfectly at range...

Of course! The condition I set was:

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

... Tzogvin or Medusa, if you have no bar space for Barbed Trap and want to stay at range.
Kinras or Pillar of Nirn, if you find a spot for a minor Force ability ...

[snip]

And getting into melee for that one second to cast Barbed Trap is a suuuuper advanced technique. Keeping up weaving while moving is really difficult. I'd never suggest that to anyone without extensive experience.

[edited for baiting]

Petoften

Lot of info, thank you for the effort. I'm looking at it.

I had done a little trial some time ago and have at least three pieces, one infallibl mage and two mantle of sirroria.

FlopsyPrince

I have been running Necropotence and something else for years on my Pet Sorc main.

I do cringe at the thought of being nerfed even more though, with the latest patch coming shortly.

They already took away my favorite Crystal Blast (with stun!) for a Stamina ability I have not found worthwhile, even on my stamsorc.

I still enjoy/enjoyed playing my main, but this could be enough to stop that if DPS goes down as much as I am cringing to hear.

Ideally, decide what you want to do in the game. I don't do Trials nor much in Veteran Dungeons, so being the perfect top has never been important for me. I suck at PvP and would likely continue to suck even if I had the best PvP set since my twitch skills are not wonderful.

I do use a lightning staff on both bars because it is much easier to play and heavy attack. I miss too many shots with a flame staff, though a couple of my alts do use one.

I just hope they don't make the game unfun!

I would really love a WoW-like Hunter class, with true fighting pet options, but I don't see that coming.

Petoften

What trait(s) should I get on the armor (same on all or mixed?) Divines?

Zodiarkslayer

Petoften wrote: »

What trait(s) should I get on the armor (same on all or mixed?) Divines?

Yes. All Divines. All Max Magicka enchants. Thief Mundus.
By the way, what food do you use now?

And have you had a chance to test the build and take it into a vet group dungeon perhaps.

I'd like to hear what you think of how it plays. 😊

Petoften

What trait on the inferno staff(s)? Probably precise or sharpened?

Petoften

I'm about to make order's wrath armor, but having three pieces of trial armor makes me wonder if I should reconsider order's wrath as jewelry instead.

Petoften

Zodiark, I'm picking pieces to do, haven't tried much yet, vet dungeons were going ok. Wasn't using food much but when I did, it was some max magicka food from the old pet design. About to try the order's wrath armor.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Petoften

Well, the switch to currently Order's wrath/Necropotence while I pick a second set has lost over 2500 mana and gained 7% crit.

daemondamian

I'm running Order's Wrath, Bahsei's Mania, Sea-Serpent's Coil & 1 piece Slimecraw for dps normal trials & dungeons but I only use the volatile familiar & I also use a crit potion with ravage health (& swift on jewellery to counter the snare) to have a higher uptime on Major Berserk but you either need to have a heal slotted or a competent healer in group.

FlopsyPrince

I read it above, but can someone note what would be better that is achievable by a casual player (some dungeons, but not a lot, though I do buy helms in Cyrodiil as they come up).

I am using Mother's Sorrow and Necropotence now on my pet sorc.

Zodiarkslayer

Petoften wrote: »

What trait on the inferno staff(s)? Probably precise or sharpened?

Depends. Normally, Precise is best. In groups with a Tank and support it always is.

Personally, I have a table where I calculate all my character's penetration. So I know exactly where I stand in a dungeon with faketanks, for example.
Thats why I have at least two weapons on every character. It's easy to switch in case I need more pen. Easier than teleporting to a starter zone and switch to the Lover Mundus, anyway. 😉

Petoften

So, I've got my Order's Wrath Armor, and the maw monster set per recommendations. Now for the jewelry and weapon...

Quethrosar

you know what i don't understand from all this talk and people's videos?
parses where the skill sais 10k dps but the skill never procs that high. and i have 73% crit rate and minor force.
shard, the biggest hit i remember is in the 40ks, most of the time it's in the 30s. but I can see videos where this was over 50k. Maybe they are old videos.
All i know is it feels like even though i run good stuff, the correct stats, blood thirsty, spell damage enchants, divines, etc...
skiils seem to never be as good as you see in the videos.

in vet dungeons i can be anywhere from 30 to 50% of dps.
in nss trial i was either 9 - 12% depending on which of the 3 times i went.

i don't use daedric prey or haunting curse because i use the dot that heals me, forget the name since most of my life is pug.

Remathilis

This thread has been a good source of advice on respeccing my magsorc. Thank you