PvP will die...

Marcus_Justicia

This video fully explains why pvp is in danger

https://youtu.be/b_7BfF7ifFs

Firstmep

Funny thing is, they have addressed a lot of issue in terms of pvp balance from update 34, but then took like 10 steps backwards immediately.
I know many of the changes are pve focused, but even the pvp focused changes are problematic.
They decided to nerf resolving vigor, which might seem like a good idea if you think healing is too high in pvp.
But what's going to happen is that this will force players to fall back to their class based mostly all magicka costing healing skills, which is going to put stam users in a really wierd spot.
It is also going to force a lot of people back to rally which will once again limit weapon choices.
Like, we have been down that road before, can we not go back there?
The class changes are also really bad. Nightblades are getting pushed back to pure gank territory, templars main spammable hits like a wet noodle now etc..
It really looks like they just dont take pvp into account, or simple dont grasp the consequences of these changes.

ToRelax

Firstmep wrote: »

It really looks like they just dont take pvp into account, or simple dont grasp the consequences of these changes.

The latter, I'm pretty sure. It's less important whether an ability is as powerful as some other on paper than that it fills it's desired purpose in the build. So attempting to standardize everything the way they're doing merely leads to exactly one option being strictly better than the alternatives while building your character, rather than offering a different focus for your build.

MidniteOwl1913

Any form of dynamic (stickie) healing has been nerfed. It will cause more problems than it solves, but a lot of people have complained about "overhealing" for a long time and this is what they get.

Healers are going to struggle.

mmtaniac

Healing was too strong already , now they need focus on one thing not become universal. Current game is make as much universal build as you can. After patch focus on one thing. Solo pvp will die probably or people find way how to play it.

danthemann5

The death of ESO PvP has been predicted many times over the years, yet there are still hour-long queues to get into Cyrodiil.

Will this patch kill PvP? Almost certainly not.

Is this update good for PvP? Also almost certainly not.

The stated intent for this update was to make content more accessible for lower tier or casual players. Does this update further that goal? No.

For the last few years, I've watched casual PvP players get squeezed out of open world PvP. Right now, the main options for PvP are hardcore ball groups, tower *** "1vX" builds (which I have been informed is the only true and correct way to PvP in ESO), or faction stack zergs. Where does this leave the casual guy with a decent but not optimized build who wants to pop into Cyrodiil for a few hours a few days a week? Solo, he's gonna get mowed down by ball groups, zergs, or humpers. He can join the zerg and get farmed by ball groups, and being zergling #1002934 might not be the most fun way to play for many people. People want to feel like they're contributing something meaningful, which is hard to do in a faction stack. He could join a PUG or other organized group, but even an organized but not optimized casual PvP group is going to get crushed by the ball groups or zergs.

The bottom line is the space for casual PvP play is getting smaller and smaller with every update. Making it harder to stay alive isn't going to encourage casual players to PvP. Getting killed over and over with no recourse, no chance to fight back, and no way to stay alive isn't fun.

But PvP in ESO won't die until they switch off the servers for good.

xylena_lazarow

danthemann5 wrote: »

But PvP in ESO won't die until they switch off the servers for good.

It won't completely die, but there's a good chance the main server will start to look more like the off servers, completely dead for 18 hours a day outside a handful of prime time guilds that drive what's left of the action. I'd also wager the ball groups will stick around so long as casual pugs feed their power fantasy, but we'll see far fewer smallscale tower trolls.

Jeezye

danthemann5 wrote: »

The death of ESO PvP has been predicted many times over the years, yet there are still hour-long queues to get into Cyrodiil.

Will this patch kill PvP? Almost certainly not.

Is this update good for PvP? Also almost certainly not.

The stated intent for this update was to make content more accessible for lower tier or casual players. Does this update further that goal? No.

For the last few years, I've watched casual PvP players get squeezed out of open world PvP. Right now, the main options for PvP are hardcore ball groups, tower *** "1vX" builds (which I have been informed is the only true and correct way to PvP in ESO), or faction stack zergs. Where does this leave the casual guy with a decent but not optimized build who wants to pop into Cyrodiil for a few hours a few days a week? Solo, he's gonna get mowed down by ball groups, zergs, or humpers. He can join the zerg and get farmed by ball groups, and being zergling #1002934 might not be the most fun way to play for many people. People want to feel like they're contributing something meaningful, which is hard to do in a faction stack. He could join a PUG or other organized group, but even an organized but not optimized casual PvP group is going to get crushed by the ball groups or zergs.

The bottom line is the space for casual PvP play is getting smaller and smaller with every update. Making it harder to stay alive isn't going to encourage casual players to PvP. Getting killed over and over with no recourse, no chance to fight back, and no way to stay alive isn't fun.

But PvP in ESO won't die until they switch off the servers for good.

I haven't set foot into cyro for ages now, and instead prefer instant BG action over 30min cyrodiil riding exp. 1vX/open world pvp has been dead even before my absence more than a year ago. BGs are much more accessible, reliable fights, and include some sort of (weird) MRR to match oyu correctly.

So Cyrodiil might be dead (to me), but PvP certainly isnt.

weights44

The overall balance in pvp on PS5na is pathetic anyways. It’s normally 3 bars server zergs vs 1 bar keep after keep after keep. So these changes aren’t addressing how unbalanced populations are.

ebix_

PVP wont die but the quality of it will decline drastically after update 35 goes live.
new players always come but what is lost here is alot of veterans both in PVP and PVE and its not a good trade ZOS... all of your recent changes favoured new players over veterans. you gonna lose players that put hundreds of hours on your game and gain players that may or may not stay around after a week or two and if they stay and become veterans themselves they will realise how ZOS mistreats them and will leave as well.

MidniteOwl1913

SO if PVP dies will ZOS bring back Oakensoul?

BalticBlues

danthemann5 wrote: »

The death of ESO PvP has been predicted many times over the years, yet there are still hour-long queues to get into Cyrodiil.anymore.

This is because ZOS crippled the number of people allowed in Cyro due to the massive lags.

danthemann5 wrote: »

For the last few years, I've watched casual PvP players get squeezed out of open world PvP. Right now, the main options for PvP are hardcore ball groups, tower *** "1vX" builds (which I have been informed is the only true and correct way to PvP in ESO), or faction stack zergs.

Latest PvP Failures:
[*] Instead of reducing ball groups, OP sets like "Dark Conversion" made ball groups even stronger.
[*] DKs received so many buffs that most Battlegrounds only consist of DKs.
[*] Oakensoul finally brought PURE PTW to PvP to sell HighIsles.

These days, you are mostly playing PvP against OP sets, OP classes and OP mythics.
For good players this is frustrating - for casual players this is overwhelming.
PvP in ESO never have been worse than in 2022.

Finally in 2022, the biggest design failure of all was scaling healing with damage.
Now the best DDs also are the best healers - and pure healers are not needed anymore.
Also in PvE, even Vet HM Dungeons are done most efficiently now with 3 DDs plus Tank.

The 2021/2022 combat design team crippled ESO as it was originally designed.

tomfant

Isn't PVP already dead, more or less?

Mannjdyr

tomfant wrote: »

Isn't PVP already dead, more or less?

Ball group kill PvP...

starkerealm

ebix_ wrote: »

PVP wont die but the quality of it will decline drastically after update 35 goes live.
new players always come but what is lost here is alot of veterans both in PVP and PVE and its not a good trade ZOS... all of your recent changes favoured new players over veterans. you gonna lose players that put hundreds of hours on your game and gain players that may or may not stay around after a week or two and if they stay and become veterans themselves they will realise how ZOS mistreats them and will leave as well.

Honestly, with the way 35 feels in overland. I mean, yeah, new players will always come, but I seriously believe the volume will drop off sharply.

Something that I've seen barely mentioned on the boards, but the new player experience on the PTS is awful. Maybe the week 3 update fixed that, but I don't see how it could have based on the notes.

doesurmindglow

I mean those of us who organize and run in the ball groups have warned them repeatedly against buffs to our playstyle.

I'd warn them again, as I believe the nerf to Radiating Regeneration will dramatically buff ball groups, as it is, according to our logs, generally the only heal most of our opponents are using, while optimized groups have a lot more diversified HOT profile and so on and so forth.

But no one ever listens to us about any of this at all. No one cares what the actual data are. Everyone, including ZOS and too many of the players advising them, all have their minds made up. I'd tell them limiting stacks of a HOTs from a single ability is a much better way to go about this than a straight across-the-board nerf; and while it won't work either, at least it's something more in the realm of "not obviously the opposite of what's intended."

But honestly though, what's the point? We're shouting at a wall.

Ragnaroek93

Will? I have reduced my ESO playtime by more than 90% since Necro got released because that was the turning point when the game truly went downhill. The balance (both between classes AND items is laughable), performance is horrible and the combat feels clunky and awful with cast times, min travel times and skills firing on key on release instead of key on press. My friendlist is dead except of maybe 3-5 people. Steam charts are on par with 2018.

Devs don't focus to improve on the current situation, they focus on creating entirely new situations (which often end up being even worse).

xylena_lazarow

doesurmindglow wrote: »

I'd warn them again, as I believe the nerf to Radiating Regeneration will dramatically buff ball groups, as it is, according to our logs, generally the only heal most of our opponents are using, while optimized groups have a lot more diversified HOT profile and so on and so forth.

Since you like paradoxes: buffing ball groups' ability to kill pugs and decisively end fights will dramatically reduce the amount of ball group complaints, which are mostly brought forth because hour-long lap running heal stack stalemates are extremely boring and pointless for their opponents. Win and move to the next objective, and so will everyone else.

For what it's worth, the RR nerf will not much affect the zergs who only ever relied on numbers, nor the high-tier ball groups who always easily adapt. It will hit the smaller or mid-tier ball groups who really can't bomb anyone or even hold a flag, but have figured out how to stack mobile healing and run around to stalemate fights. The fact that those guys will be easier to kill makes it easier to roll your eyes and ignore elite groups dangling faction objectives trying to goad casuals.

The damage nerfs and new busted sets will stalemate a lot of smaller fights. Casual randoms will still chase and then die in towers and behind rocks, but any conceivable form of competitive small scale is looking pretty miserable.

TechMaybeHic

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

SO if PVP dies will ZOS bring back Oakensoul?

tomfant wrote: »

Isn't PVP already dead, more or less?

Nope

Amottica

I thought PvP was mostly dead already. I have heard stories of multiple campaigns being filled on weekdays during prime time and that the pop caps were significantly higher than they are now. Now it takes an event that might get as many people into various smaller campaigns. That is not a good reflection on the current health of this game segment.

Sylosi

Unless you have really, really low standards then PvP has already been dead a long time.

Take last time I went into Cyrodil for example, I played about an hour to get tier 1 for the transmute crystals, I ended with about 35k AP and was 228th on the leaderboard. That was 16 days in to the campaign on the "busiest" campaign (Gray Host), to be in 228th after 1 hour of play 16 days into the "busiest" campaign means the number of players who are actually playing on a regular basis ("PvP" players) is already absolutely minuscule.

Then you have the population caps, at the start of this game it was 600 per faction, 1800 for the entire map, now it is allegedly under 100 per faction, which is why sometimes for a couple of hours you can have a "queue". Which is also why even if you have a pop locked campaign the map can be laughably dead, because even pop-locked you have barely any players on a map that was designed for 1800 players rather than your "full" campaign of 300 (at best) players these days.

And let's not even go into how it is down to 3 campaigns, one of which is a ghost town, and the others are normally pitiful outside of primetime.

IC has been a ghost town outside of events for years. And BGs the population is so low the devs stated there is not the population to split queues more. Even with just the one split of group/solo, the low population means you have players playing in the same match that would never be in the same match in a MOBA, team based shooter, fight game, etc, even at primetime. (granted I am sure the laughable "MMR" does not help in that regard)