High Isle is Jumping the Shark, not good

Call_of_Red_Mountain

I don't know what you mean. High Isle was great. Finally something interesting after 2 boring chapters. And beautiful zone. Yes.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

High Isle is absolutely tiny. The size alone is disgraceful to be called a "chapter"... Never mind adding nothing new but a card game (a card game which should have been added to the base game for free). It's laughable for how it's priced.

FluffWit

It's funny you mention the volcanic vents. I thought they were fine but really now that I think about it I guess that's just because they're not as awful as the Atols from last year were.

Beta sums them up well. Graphically they don't look finished. The audio- especially the women talking, doesn't sound finished. The boss fights feel half baked.

stevenyaub16_ESO

geekboy09 wrote: »

You do realize half the playerbase is leaving. ESO is not even in the top 5 populated mmos anymore, and here's the solid proof.https://mmo-population.com/

[edited to remove quote]

If you looked at the data there was a 40-50% population drop from 2021 for all the popular MMOs. ESO actually retained more % than the others

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

VS

https://mmo-population.com/activity

SerafinaWaterstar

Utterly disagree with OP.

High Isle is delightful. The scenery is gorgeous, I enjoyed riding round before starting the MQ - which was actually quite good - so much better than the last few years of ‘bad’ daedric princes being naughty / badly written female characters (and no princesses - yay) - am looking forward to how it is wound up.

The side quests are interesting; the new companions, especially Ember, are ones you want to play with (oooh shiny); the vents are different, as are the wbs.

The trial has really interesting mechs & is great fun.

And I even like the card game (and I *really* thought I would never ever say that) & play it for fun.

So, no. ESO has not ‘jumped the shark’ with High Isle - though I am not sure that the accusation makes any contextual sense……

Grizzbeorn

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no. ESO has not ‘jumped the shark’ with High Isle - though I am not sure that the accusation makes any contextual sense……

I mean, even the television series from which the reference is taken ('Happy Days') didn't "jump the shark;" it stayed at the top of television ratings for years after that episode aired.
So even the initial implication was faulty.

FlopsyPrince

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no. ESO has not ‘jumped the shark’ with High Isle - though I am not sure that the accusation makes any contextual sense……

I mean, even the television series from which the reference is taken ('Happy Days') didn't "jump the shark;" it stayed at the top of television ratings for years after that episode aired.
So even the initial implication was faulty.

For years? I guess 2 years would be "years" though, but I don't think it was really long.

spartaxoxo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no. ESO has not ‘jumped the shark’ with High Isle - though I am not sure that the accusation makes any contextual sense……

I mean, even the television series from which the reference is taken ('Happy Days') didn't "jump the shark;" it stayed at the top of television ratings for years after that episode aired.
So even the initial implication was faulty.

For years? I guess 2 years would be "years" though, but I don't think it was really long.

2 years is long for a cancelled show.

Grizzbeorn

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no. ESO has not ‘jumped the shark’ with High Isle - though I am not sure that the accusation makes any contextual sense……

I mean, even the television series from which the reference is taken ('Happy Days') didn't "jump the shark;" it stayed at the top of television ratings for years after that episode aired.
So even the initial implication was faulty.

For years? I guess 2 years would be "years" though, but I don't think it was really long.

Two years is an eternity in weekly television, even back in the '70s.

FlopsyPrince

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no. ESO has not ‘jumped the shark’ with High Isle - though I am not sure that the accusation makes any contextual sense……

I mean, even the television series from which the reference is taken ('Happy Days') didn't "jump the shark;" it stayed at the top of television ratings for years after that episode aired.
So even the initial implication was faulty.

For years? I guess 2 years would be "years" though, but I don't think it was really long.

Two years is an eternity in weekly television, even back in the '70s.

It may have been, it is still not the implied "years" which implies many more than just those few years.

The show should have ended earlier though, as it had its core purpose fulfilled.

FlopsyPrince

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

This game has been "jumping the shark" since the day it launched if you listen to some people.
But for real since Summerset.
And for really reals when Elsweyr hit.
And DEFINITELY when Greymoor launched.
And omg, Blackwood was somehow even worse than Greymoor, according to some people.

(all of which is to say, it isn't jumping the shark.)

Just like World of Warcraft was never going to lose its position!

Elsonso

Tesman85 wrote: »

I don't really understand this griping on High Isle. Personally I like the expansion very much and think it's very good. It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

End of the world? No. Buggy as ***? Yes.

Speaking of bugs... has anyone else noticed that they still have not fixed the Giant Clam harvesting animation from Summerset Isle?

It is way over priced. Content is not worth the price. Not sure it is worth sale prices, to be honest, but definitely don't pay full price.

Tesman85

Elsonso wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

I don't really understand this griping on High Isle. Personally I like the expansion very much and think it's very good. It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

End of the world? No. Buggy as ***? Yes.

Speaking of bugs... has anyone else noticed that they still have not fixed the Giant Clam harvesting animation from Summerset Isle?

It is way over priced. Content is not worth the price. Not sure it is worth sale prices, to be honest, but definitely don't pay full price.

The bugs definitely are the expansion's biggest flaw. Just yesterday I had two in a row: First killing the theurges bosses didn't update the daily quest, and then they didn't respawn. It was only by relogging in that they appeared. At least the useless waiting was somewhat fun, since I flashed emotes and mementos with a few other players. Still, things like this should have been spotted and corrected in the PTS phase at the latest.

Otherwise I disagree, since I deem to have gotten my money's worth.

Treselegant wrote: »

It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

Even outside the forums I've noticed that the reaction to High Isle has been on the whole quite muted and 'meh'. When Blackwood launched there was decent social media buzz about it with continued engagement after it released but with High Isle - not as much. What ESO content I'm seeing in the places I frequent online tends to be the same sort of thing as before its release (fashion/houses/screenshots) with not much variation. What praise I see seems pretty mild with particular focus on the environment being quite pretty. So, I'm seeing a lot of Sunflower pictures but not as much discussion about the story or characters for example. I don't think it's the end of the world but I think a lot of people have noticed that this expansion is somewhat lacking.

One has to take into account that there was an unprecedented anti-hype drive going on. Why, I saw just yesterday that there had been a thread titled "Is High Isle worth the money" or something like that - started in January when no one had played one second of the expansion! When something has been trashed so much in advance, the eventual reaction to it is bound to be coloured by that before-hand criticism. It's just basic psychology. See e.g. how the most mediocre things (about 80 % of all entertainment, for instance) are seen as best ever due to extensive marketing, and how laugh tracks in sitcoms make people think boring jokes are funny.

As for the motive for that campaign, I think some of the end-game hard-corists are the culprits. I concede that High Isle isn't the most exciting thing for them (meh sets, except maybe one of them for templars, no new skill lines/classes). But that doesn't warrant trashing the whole thing even before anyone's even played it.

FlopsyPrince

Tesman85 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

I don't really understand this griping on High Isle. Personally I like the expansion very much and think it's very good. It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

End of the world? No. Buggy as ***? Yes.

Speaking of bugs... has anyone else noticed that they still have not fixed the Giant Clam harvesting animation from Summerset Isle?

It is way over priced. Content is not worth the price. Not sure it is worth sale prices, to be honest, but definitely don't pay full price.

The bugs definitely are the expansion's biggest flaw. Just yesterday I had two in a row: First killing the theurges bosses didn't update the daily quest, and then they didn't respawn. It was only by relogging in that they appeared. At least the useless waiting was somewhat fun, since I flashed emotes and mementos with a few other players. Still, things like this should have been spotted and corrected in the PTS phase at the latest.

Otherwise I disagree, since I deem to have gotten my money's worth.

Treselegant wrote: »

It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

Even outside the forums I've noticed that the reaction to High Isle has been on the whole quite muted and 'meh'. When Blackwood launched there was decent social media buzz about it with continued engagement after it released but with High Isle - not as much. What ESO content I'm seeing in the places I frequent online tends to be the same sort of thing as before its release (fashion/houses/screenshots) with not much variation. What praise I see seems pretty mild with particular focus on the environment being quite pretty. So, I'm seeing a lot of Sunflower pictures but not as much discussion about the story or characters for example. I don't think it's the end of the world but I think a lot of people have noticed that this expansion is somewhat lacking.

One has to take into account that there was an unprecedented anti-hype drive going on. Why, I saw just yesterday that there had been a thread titled "Is High Isle worth the money" or something like that - started in January when no one had played one second of the expansion! When something has been trashed so much in advance, the eventual reaction to it is bound to be coloured by that before-hand criticism. It's just basic psychology. See e.g. how the most mediocre things (about 80 % of all entertainment, for instance) are seen as best ever due to extensive marketing, and how laugh tracks in sitcoms make people think boring jokes are funny.

As for the motive for that campaign, I think some of the end-game hard-corists are the culprits. I concede that High Isle isn't the most exciting thing for them (meh sets, except maybe one of them for templars, no new skill lines/classes). But that doesn't warrant trashing the whole thing even before anyone's even played it.

The main "hype" for the chapter was a card game that is "meh" for many of us. Some more stuff and a new place, but not as engaging, if you aren't impressed with a CCG in your MMO.

Elsonso

Tesman85 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

I don't really understand this griping on High Isle. Personally I like the expansion very much and think it's very good. It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

End of the world? No. Buggy as ***? Yes.

Speaking of bugs... has anyone else noticed that they still have not fixed the Giant Clam harvesting animation from Summerset Isle?

It is way over priced. Content is not worth the price. Not sure it is worth sale prices, to be honest, but definitely don't pay full price.

The bugs definitely are the expansion's biggest flaw. Just yesterday I had two in a row: First killing the theurges bosses didn't update the daily quest, and then they didn't respawn. It was only by relogging in that they appeared. At least the useless waiting was somewhat fun, since I flashed emotes and mementos with a few other players. Still, things like this should have been spotted and corrected in the PTS phase at the latest.

Otherwise I disagree, since I deem to have gotten my money's worth.

Each person is free to assess value as they see fit. I do think that people enter into this eyes open and not be seduced by the marketing hype.

Relogging only works when you can log back into a different "instance" of the zone. In this way, you can find one where the boss is not stuck. Yet.

They need someone behind the curtain that can just say, "no, you aren't delivering this, back to work" and delay schedules until the developers and QA get it done. My opinion is that they are getting too lazy with quality and depending too much on the "ship now, fix later" mentality. Needs to stop. They aren't good at doing this.

Tesman85 wrote: »

Treselegant wrote: »

It's baffling how so many posters here moans like it's the end of the world.

Even outside the forums I've noticed that the reaction to High Isle has been on the whole quite muted and 'meh'. When Blackwood launched there was decent social media buzz about it with continued engagement after it released but with High Isle - not as much. What ESO content I'm seeing in the places I frequent online tends to be the same sort of thing as before its release (fashion/houses/screenshots) with not much variation. What praise I see seems pretty mild with particular focus on the environment being quite pretty. So, I'm seeing a lot of Sunflower pictures but not as much discussion about the story or characters for example. I don't think it's the end of the world but I think a lot of people have noticed that this expansion is somewhat lacking.

One has to take into account that there was an unprecedented anti-hype drive going on. Why, I saw just yesterday that there had been a thread titled "Is High Isle worth the money" or something like that - started in January when no one had played one second of the expansion!

The marketing team puts out hype in advance of product availability to get people to buy it sight unseen, without having played it for one second. To me, this is the same thing as someone saying "is it worth it", sight unseen.

Of course, the proper thing to do is to try it on PTS before buying it, but they hype is out long before that happens.

Treselegant

As for the motive for that campaign, I think some of the end-game hard-corists are the culprits. I concede that High Isle isn't the most exciting thing for them (meh sets, except maybe one of them for templars, no new skill lines/classes). But that doesn't warrant trashing the whole thing even before anyone's even played it.

The player reactions I have seen are definitely not 'end-game hard corists'. Casual players aren't that into it either - believe me, the social media places I frequent are hardly the haunts of hard core gamers. There were lots of sunflower pictures following release but not much else and engagement seems low compared to Blackwood. I, personally, am someone who enjoys a good story and likes to solo role-play and for me High Isle was disappointing. The writing just wasn't that great and while the environment is nice, once you've trotted your horse around a bit what else is there really? Lots of players have no interest in a card game so once they have filled in the map there just isnt much to do.

The two main reactions I saw following the reveal in January, in the casual spaces I spend time in, were: why a card game and why only female companions? I don't think end game difficulty was even on the radar. Since then I've seen low levels of interest around ESO in general. If you enjoyed the expansion that's great but to write off the reaction to High Isle as a reaction by 'hard core-ist' gamers seems reductive.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn

I've just finished the main quest... in all honesty -

I loved it!

There are bugs, I can get past those. The whole chapter for me was very fulfilling.

I just hope U35 can get sorted so we don't have to see it. But, as for High Isle so far, I'm very happy with the story and the chapter as a whole.

So happy to see those old characters back again.

Geldauran

Treselegant wrote: »

As for the motive for that campaign, I think some of the end-game hard-corists are the culprits. I concede that High Isle isn't the most exciting thing for them (meh sets, except maybe one of them for templars, no new skill lines/classes). But that doesn't warrant trashing the whole thing even before anyone's even played it.

The player reactions I have seen are definitely not 'end-game hard corists'. Casual players aren't that into it either - believe me, the social media places I frequent are hardly the haunts of hard core gamers. There were lots of sunflower pictures following release but not much else and engagement seems low compared to Blackwood. I, personally, am someone who enjoys a good story and likes to solo role-play and for me High Isle was disappointing. The writing just wasn't that great and while the environment is nice, once you've trotted your horse around a bit what else is there really? Lots of players have no interest in a card game so once they have filled in the map there just isnt much to do.

The two main reactions I saw following the reveal in January, in the casual spaces I spend time in, were: why a card game and why only female companions? I don't think end game difficulty was even on the radar. Since then I've seen low levels of interest around ESO in general. If you enjoyed the expansion that's great but to write off the reaction to High Isle as a reaction by 'hard core-ist' gamers seems reductive.

Yeah, when High Isles and its features were 1st announced that was the general reaction that I saw too. On top of that many wondered why the the Isles and many thought it was just making up places, but apparently its mentioned in some lore in an older ES game? While I like Bretons and their lore (I play one myself), many of the fandom think Bretons are one of the more boring races

blktauna

I did most of High Isle on the PTS as soon as it hit.

It really is gorgeous. I enjoyed Ember's quest, it was nice to explore... I too thought it was unfinished. It was very empty. Those invisible walls drive me crazy. The story was kinda meh but I like doing the quests so thats not really too important. But there was nothing... like nothing. It seemed dead in spots. It was more creepy than Blackreach because it was so sterile seeming.

Then there's the card game. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ no thanks. Then I looked at the price. Def no thanks.

btw I'm not a 'hard core-ist' gamer

Tesman85

Treselegant wrote: »

As for the motive for that campaign, I think some of the end-game hard-corists are the culprits. I concede that High Isle isn't the most exciting thing for them (meh sets, except maybe one of them for templars, no new skill lines/classes). But that doesn't warrant trashing the whole thing even before anyone's even played it.

The player reactions I have seen are definitely not 'end-game hard corists'. Casual players aren't that into it either - believe me, the social media places I frequent are hardly the haunts of hard core gamers. There were lots of sunflower pictures following release but not much else and engagement seems low compared to Blackwood. I, personally, am someone who enjoys a good story and likes to solo role-play and for me High Isle was disappointing. The writing just wasn't that great and while the environment is nice, once you've trotted your horse around a bit what else is there really? Lots of players have no interest in a card game so once they have filled in the map there just isnt much to do.

The two main reactions I saw following the reveal in January, in the casual spaces I spend time in, were: why a card game and why only female companions? I don't think end game difficulty was even on the radar. Since then I've seen low levels of interest around ESO in general. If you enjoyed the expansion that's great but to write off the reaction to High Isle as a reaction by 'hard core-ist' gamers seems reductive.

Okay, I might have been wrong as regards to the origin of the anti-hype (I mainly read this forum for ESO discussion). But it still is excessive. "What else is there really?" That question could be leveled at any zone, and the answer is the same: Side quests, world bosses, the dolmen-equivalents, antiquity hunting and so on. These are present in High Isle. Or, what more does for instance Blackwood offer after the main story?

I'd even go so far as to assert that e.g. the world bosses in High Isle are quite good from what I've seen of them. At least they aren't nearly so easily soloable as in original zones. And side quests are easily the same quality than in other expansions. So when people go on like it's all trash it's just perplexing. It does look like some bandwagon phenomenon more than valid criticism.

Geldauran wrote: »

While I like Bretons and their lore (I play one myself), many of the fandom think Bretons are one of the more boring races

That might be one reason for the excessive dislike. I'm a Breton fan too, but admittedly e.g. the beast races and the Dunmer are much more popular and compared to them the Bretons can seem somewhat too much vanilla.

Treselegant

"What else is there really?" That question could be leveled at any zone, and the answer is the same: Side quests, world bosses, the dolmen-equivalents, antiquity hunting and so on. These are present in High Isle. Or, what more does for instance Blackwood offer after the main story?

I managed to fill in the entire map and solo all the bosses in about a week. I'm not exactly a high tier player with moster dps either. I didn't mean the main quest when said "what else?", I meant all the quests/map points. Blackwood actually had a similar problem in that a lot of players completed the area and never came back. A lot of people think the problem with content quality actually started with Blackwood. However, Blackwood did have more player engagement despite its flaws.

I think the difference is that a lot of players saw what was being offered in High Isle and found nothing of interest to them. Even those who did buy it have found it underwhelming and I think the lack of social media engagement is a symptom of that. Places like Tumblr would normally be all over characters like Isobel for example but there just arn't many people posting about ESO anymore and that's striking to me.

FlopsyPrince

blktauna wrote: »

I did most of High Isle on the PTS as soon as it hit.

It really is gorgeous. I enjoyed Ember's quest, it was nice to explore... I too thought it was unfinished. It was very empty. Those invisible walls drive me crazy. The story was kinda meh but I like doing the quests so thats not really too important. But there was nothing... like nothing. It seemed dead in spots. It was more creepy than Blackreach because it was so sterile seeming.

Then there's the card game. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ no thanks. Then I looked at the price. Def no thanks.

btw I'm not a 'hard core-ist' gamer

I agree. Walls like those are very annoying! Especially when it is not obvious why I cannot go over a small jump. Though Blackwood had some of those too.

Why can't I swim completely around any island? Summerset has this problem too.

I suspect the card game was easier to make that other features so was pumped as a "next great thing" to make it seem like something worthwhile was being delivered when it is a useless feature for many of us.

And I am definitely not a hard core gamer! I play a lot, but I am not that skilled!

Treselegant wrote: »

"What else is there really?" That question could be leveled at any zone, and the answer is the same: Side quests, world bosses, the dolmen-equivalents, antiquity hunting and so on. These are present in High Isle. Or, what more does for instance Blackwood offer after the main story?

I managed to fill in the entire map and solo all the bosses in about a week. I'm not exactly a high tier player with moster dps either. I didn't mean the main quest when said "what else?", I meant all the quests/map points. Blackwood actually had a similar problem in that a lot of players completed the area and never came back. A lot of people think the problem with content quality actually started with Blackwood. However, Blackwood did have more player engagement despite its flaws.

I think the difference is that a lot of players saw what was being offered in High Isle and found nothing of interest to them. Even those who did buy it have found it underwhelming and I think the lack of social media engagement is a symptom of that. Places like Tumblr would normally be all over characters like Isobel for example but there just arn't many people posting about ESO anymore and that's striking to me.

I bet some areas of High Isle will become ghost towns very soon. Try doing those fiery portals in Blackwood now. Almost impossible for most of us. Yeah I know a few will likely to reply you can do those alone with your feet while eating lunch, but many of us cannot and need others to do things there. I cannot however, so that part is worthless now. Same with killing dragons if others are not there for some reason.

karekiz

geekboy09 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AwakeOhSleeper wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

This game has been "jumping the shark" since the day it launched if you listen to some people.
But for real since Summerset.
And for really reals when Elsweyr hit.
And DEFINITELY when Greymoor launched.
And omg, Blackwood was somehow even worse than Greymoor, according to some people.

(all of which is to say, it isn't jumping the shark.)

[snip]

[snip]

You do realize half the playerbase is leaving. ESO is not even in the top 5 populated mmos anymore, and here's the solid proof.https://mmo-population.com/

[edited to remove quote]

TOTAL PLAYERS
30.22K
EverQuest Online Adventures is estimated to have 30,220 total players or subscribers.

I don't trust that website simply because of this. EQOA is both a canceled <shutdown 2012 which is 3 years before their data is listed> PS2 only MMO that requires some legwork to get an emulator to work that really isn't even functional at all. No way does it have

DAILY PLAYERS:
EverQuest Online Adventures is estimated to have 574 players per day this month.

Hell even this:

DAILY PLAYERS
2,478
EverQuest Next is estimated to have 2,478 players per day this month.

That doesn't even HAVE a functional emulator and you can't play it anymore <IIRC>. So uhhh how is 2.4K this month?

barney2525

I dunno about that ' Universally disliked combat challenges' thing.

Couple guys I talked to on Neptune said they were cool.

shadyjane62

barney2525 wrote: »

I dunno about that ' Universally disliked combat challenges' thing.

Couple guys I talked to on Neptune said they were cool.

Is Neptune still a planet?

Elsonso

shadyjane62 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

I dunno about that ' Universally disliked combat challenges' thing.

Couple guys I talked to on Neptune said they were cool.

Is Neptune still a planet?

Neptune wanted to be a "really big dwarf planet", as "dwarf planet" is currently the popular thing to be, but the application was rejected.

As for whether the changes are universally disliked, I agree with the guys on Neptune. Although, the average surface temperature is around -200 degrees C, and that might be the real reason they are cool.

My feeling is that it does not help to exaggerate the impact. ZOS will see this and my fear is that they will immediately dismiss the comment due to that.

That said, I do have significant concerns. Even if the discomfort does not rise to the point of leaving the game, or picketing here in the forum, my feeling is that there will be discomfort across a much larger swath of players than an Update normally hits. I can't understand why people inside ZOS want to do this to the players.

EdmondDontes

I went out and read the link to the ToT stats from the launcher. They are referring to ToT as if it's legitimate PvP, not just a card game. Sure it's one player against another player, but it's not combat or PvP in any traditional sense. I don't know whether to laugh or cry now.

Túrin_Vidsmidr

At this point I'm sure they must drop this "another year another chapter in 4 steps" schedule.
The quality of their content is really suffering from this forced *** deadlines upon deadlines rush and they just release half done stuff now.

Truupe

Túrin_Vidsmidr wrote: »

At this point I'm sure they must drop this "another year another chapter in 4 steps" schedule.
The quality of their content is really suffering from this forced *** deadlines upon deadlines rush and they just release half done stuff now.

+1 was gonna say this. Slowing down the release of new zones/DLCs, etc in favor of adding to existing zones or just running events (perhaps more PvP events in parallel with PvE events) would be enough in my book.