To stop scroll trolling, should scrolls reset to home temple rather than last place seated?

EdmondDontes

There has been a disappointing and drastic increase in scroll trolling in recent months. Yesterday was the icing on the cake when a faction hopping guild trolled with their own color scroll for more than two hours. On one occasion they ran around with the scroll for so long it reset to their enemies faction. Than shortly there after they deliberately put their own factions scroll into the river so that it would reset to their enemies faction.

In addition, it's become more common for people to deposit scrolls into the river so it will reset to a more inconvenient location for their enemies rather than to actually take the scroll to their own faction and seat it in one of their own keeps.

This scroll trolling and taking scrolls just so they can essentially move an enemies scroll to a keep that will be more detrimental to the faction they took the scroll from rather than taking the scroll to their own home keep is unsportsmanlike and toxic.

To me, the obvious solution is to change the scroll mechanic so that if the scroll is dunked into the water or held so long that it resets an hour after it's taken is to have the scroll reset to it's home temple. That way nobody will take scrolls unless they are intending to actually keep them, and it will stop this toxic play style and tactic.

I do understand that this will encourage some to take their scrolls back from the enemy and run straight to the river to get a "free" reset to the scroll temple. But I feel that is better than having scrolls be trolled nearly every time they are taken out of a keep as most people are doing now days.

Should the scroll mechanic be changed so that scrolls reset to their home temples if they are trolled with for more than an hour or dunked into the water?

Oakenaxe

no

As much as I see how frustrating behaviours like those are, I don't think a temple reset would be a good workaround. Not only people would no longer have to run their scroll home, but we would also lose the strategy of dunking opponent's A scroll that was being held by opponent B, in order to make it reset further in B territory so we can keep A focused on B.
Reducing the reset timer would keep things more fluid though.

Last night I was there while EP scroll was being trolled by current (they change factions all the time) EP guilds. It is a selfish move, it isn't cool, but they were the ones who organized themselves, bursted Glademist and took it. They did it twice, the second time I even tried to grab it before them but didn't make it. It was close. If more EP had been there, we might have had it. I see no way to counter this rather than organizing and taking it ourselves before them or reporting such players for non fair-play (I don't think this is a think that ZOS cares about though).

Honestly? When this happens, just take the opportunity to advance further in the enemy territory while they are busy dealing with the trolls. Don't get stressed because of their actions. The game ebbs and flows, the score changes every time, every campaign is different. Ignore those trolls, don't give them the attention they crave. Chat got very toxic while all of that was happening, which is not cool to see, even though understandable.

xylena_lazarow

yes

Oakenaxe wrote: »

we would also lose the strategy of dunking opponent's A scroll that was being held by opponent B, in order to make it reset further in B territory so we can keep A focused on B

The best strategy should be to hold the scrolls. Players should be encouraged to try to win, not just avoid losing. I don't know what the best mechanical change would be here, but something feels really wrong to me that so many players are trying to avoid PvP and avoid the scrolls in Elder Scrolls.

EdmondDontes

yes

Oakenaxe wrote: »

As much as I see how frustrating behaviours like those are, I don't think a temple reset would be a good workaround. Not only people would no longer have to run their scroll home, but we would also lose the strategy of dunking opponent's A scroll that was being held by opponent B, in order to make it reset further in B territory so we can keep A focused on B.
Reducing the reset timer would keep things more fluid though.

Last night I was there while EP scroll was being trolled by current (they change factions all the time) EP guilds. It is a selfish move, it isn't cool, but they were the ones who organized themselves, bursted Glademist and took it. They did it twice, the second time I even tried to grab it before them but didn't make it. It was close. If more EP had been there, we might have had it. I see no way to counter this rather than organizing and taking it ourselves before them or reporting such players for non fair-play (I don't think this is a think that ZOS cares about though).

Honestly? When this happens, just take the opportunity to advance further in the enemy territory while they are busy dealing with the trolls. Don't get stressed because of their actions. The game ebbs and flows, the score changes every time, every campaign is different. Ignore those trolls, don't give them the attention they crave. Chat got very toxic while all of that was happening, which is not cool to see, even though understandable.

The "strategy" of dunking scrolls so they reset at a more inconvenient keep for the enemy is one of the primary reasons I think they should change the scroll reset mechanic. This is a toxic "strategy". It's the same as giving the enemy the ability to move a scroll from one keep to another just to make it harder. I seriously doubt ZOS intended for enemies to have the ability to move the scroll from one of their enemies keeps to a different enemies keep.

If a faction picks up a scroll they should either take it and seat it in one of their own keeps or lose it. They shouldn't get to move the scroll from one enemy keep to another enemy keep. This is not "strategy", it's poor sportsmanship.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

The current scroll mechanics are good.
You could make it so that the scroll will 'float' to the edge of water closest to it

Oakenaxe

no

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The best strategy should be to hold the scrolls. Players should be encouraged to try to win, not just avoid losing. I don't know what the best mechanical change would be here, but something feels really wrong to me that so many players are trying to avoid PvP and avoid the scrolls in Elder Scrolls.

How is it avoiding PvP? The whole point is to keep pushing instead of leaving battle and running it somewhere. It is about controlling an opponent's focus, forcing them to be where you want them to be. However, I do agree that holding scrolls should be more rewarding.

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The "strategy" of dunking scrolls so they reset at a more inconvenient keep for the enemy is one of the primary reasons I think they should change the scroll reset mechanic. This is a toxic "strategy". It's the same as giving the enemy the ability to move a scroll from one keep to another just to make it harder. I seriously doubt ZOS intended for enemies to have the ability to move the scroll from one of their enemies keeps to a different enemies keep.

If a faction picks up a scroll they should either take it and seat it in one of their own keeps or lose it. They shouldn't get to move the scroll from one enemy keep to another enemy keep. This is not "strategy", it's poor sportsmanship.

I really don't see how it is toxic or poor sportsmanship, I think you are using those terms with levity; it is a pretty valid strategy. Forcing your opponent to be where you want them to be is smart. Maybe if we gained more rewards for holding scrolls people would think twice before applying this strategy. For example, it has to be really worth keeping scrolls from both factions if you know they both will be focusing you.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The current scroll mechanics are good.
You could make it so that the scroll will 'float' to the edge of water closest to it

Making the scroll return to the last "safe" spot (away from slaughterfish/lava) it was before getting dunked sounds good to me. It would kill the strategy mentioned before but it would also kill troll dunking, a fair trade imo. Better than returning it straight to the temple.

Holycannoli

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The best strategy should be to hold the scrolls. Players should be encouraged to try to win, not just avoid losing. I don't know what the best mechanical change would be here, but something feels really wrong to me that so many players are trying to avoid PvP and avoid the scrolls in Elder Scrolls.

Hold as in store and defend, not hold in your hands and run around with it. We see that happen too often.

Kamchuk

no

In my opinion, dunking a scroll to the slaughterfish is a valid tactic, for those playing the game for the score, (i.e. Grayhost). It is a crude way to try to enforce double teaming. For example, If DC has AD’s scroll at Ales, and EP takes it, then it benefits EP to dunk it. Idealistically, It keeps AD focused on DC since the scroll will respawn at a DC keep. (Although this strategy doesn’t always work out since I think AD just loves to fight EP regardless of score and scrolls. We love to fight you too, especially at Alessia Bridge 😊. Those are usually epic fights).

But the Scroll trolls are those I don’t comprehend. Especially those that take the scroll and then just run around tormenting the faction they are currently playing in. It’s one thing to take the scroll and run it back to their Guild’s faction but holding it to keep any faction from benefiting from the score advantage associated with owning the scroll is just unsportsmanlike.

I don’t agree though that it should return to the temple. I would be in favor of the ability to chat with the opposing factions, outside of through a Guild, and offer a mercenary fee to someone to come in and kill the troll. I’m pretty sure EP players would love to escort the “Frenemy” from the other faction, and then pay them after they killed the troll, whatever their asking price. This would be a hilarious addition to the game and open up a mercenary aspect to the game. The mercenary possibilities are endless, especially for the gankers. An open Cyrodill cross faction chat capability would need to be created by the Devs though.

EdmondDontes

yes

Does anyone actually believe that the game designers actually intended for people to have the ability to move a scroll in an enemy keep to a different enemy keep?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/612590/did-devs-intend-the-ability-to-move-scroll-from-one-enemy-keep-to-different-enemy-keep

Does anyone actually believe this behavior/tactic is legitimate and sportsmanlike?

xylena_lazarow

yes

Kamchuk wrote: »

In my opinion, dunking a scroll to the slaughterfish is a valid tactic

It's completely random whether it "forces the double team" like so many think it magically does, or just ends up a functional handoff to the 1st place faction, like all those times the DC scroll respawned at KC for the fast easy PvDoor. It seems like a massive design failure to me that avoiding the scrolls would ever be seen as a "better" strat than holding them.

Amottica

no

At first glance, it can seem as though the suggestion is a great solution. However, the unintended consequences are not being taken into consideration, such as a home alliance for the scroll would no longer have actually to get the scroll across the map and can use the exploits and force the scroll to reset at its home location instead.

This is the main reason the suggestion is not a good idea.

It would be better to find a solution that actually removes the exploits such as dunking than implement a workaround that removes actual strategy and makes aspects of the game rather simplistic.

DaisyRay

no

I would say yes, but if someone dropped it in the water purposely to avoid an enemy faction getting it that would just make the whole scroll chase pointless. Instead of people trolling, they would use it to cheat so they don't have to take the scroll all the way home.

biminirwb17_ESO

The scroll should just reset to the keep it was last placed in, even if another faction holds it. That way there is no benefit in dunking it. It also forces a fight at the keep it was placed in by all three factions.

EdmondDontes

yes

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The scroll should just reset to the keep it was last placed in, even if another faction holds it. That way there is no benefit in dunking it. It also forces a fight at the keep it was placed in by all three factions.

This is a good and fair adjustment to the mechanic IMO as well.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Oakenaxe

no

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The scroll should just reset to the keep it was last placed in, even if another faction holds it. That way there is no benefit in dunking it. It also forces a fight at the keep it was placed in by all three factions.

Still wouldn't stop trolls, only the strategy. Returning to the last safe spot is a better solution imo.