Teach/Train the Lower Skilled Players

mmtaniac

I play Destiny 2 recently and after 520 hours of playing i was first time interested in patch notes what was changed or buffed nerfed ,many players think similiar only after some time investment in game they start to see things like this weapon are stronger or something. When you start game you not think about things like that you just play game , if game is clunky ,too hard or you not feel satisfied you just leave it and go to another. Not every player is soulslike games players "I must focus, roll dodge here and there" , most of the time is " This place look nice and why this mob kills me easy i just started game". Learning game should be mandatory but we live in weird world where people hate reading and learning, most learn by doing not learning, they become interested in reading later in game after they become addicted to game they want to learn more and they read, and learn more about game. Main thing is to make them addicted to game, if game creator can't do that ,than we have problem.

BretonMage

BlueRaven wrote: »

There are many problems with implementing a “training” quest (or whatever) in eso.

When do you give it?
You can’t give it to new players. What are they weaving? Molten armor and LA’s? Surprise attacks and LA’s?

Before their first vet dungeon. Normal dungeons are fine for newer players to get in and figure out if they enjoy that sort of activity. Vet dungeons is usually when they get serious about group content.

Is it mandatory?
Do I have to do it? What if a player does not want to? Can they still do dungeons if they don’t want to do it? If it’s optional, and the majority of players skip it, was it wasted development money?
If it’s not optional, and a player can’t do weaving, then what? Are they then excluded from content? What if they can but don’t like it, did zos just create an angry customer who may have had no internet in dungeons in the first place?

They could bribe players with a box of rewards every time they complete a tier of training. Completing the entire training programme gets players a sizeable reward like a glowy mount/house/dye/skin/whatever.

I would also like a training dummy which gives you feedback and recommendations based on your combat, so players can keep returning to the training dummy/programme to practise and improve.

What if they change combat substantially?
Combat changes in the game all the time. Imagine all of the class abilities in U36 stayed the same. AND all the armor etc. what if the big combat change was the elimination of light attacks all together. So weaving is completely gone. Would a training quest be adaptable to this heavy of a change? Would it be even needed?

Significant changes will necessitate a tweaked training programme, otherwise there'd be no need.

Casdha

IMHO, The biggest thing that makes this game money is not that it is the best MMO around,, or heck even that it is an MMO at all, it is because of the IP.

Your assumption is that the majority of players want to get better. I would almost bet the majority of players could care less what is said about the game on these forums, they came here because it is an Elder Scrolls game, and the longer it takes for the next one to come out the more of the die hard noes are going to become I'll tries. That is a 60 million+ pool to pull from.


The reason folks perceive "it" as a lack of training is because "it" was never meant to be considered skill in the first place. That skill ( and it does take skill to pull it off) were tricks and bugs that players figured out how to combine and put together to raise DPS and then passed along to one another and ZOS didn't know what to do other than go along with it.

You will never see training for what players figure out for themselves other than from other players that know and are willing to share..

Imnotsurewho

Casdha wrote: »

You're assuming the majority of players want to get better.

edited to you're to fix grammar

If by "you're" you mean me, then no I'm not assuming that as I've mentioned multiple times players may not want to get better and that's 100% fine.

If by "you're" you mean the devs when they refer to the need to increase accessibility, then that's a fair point. Maybe players don't want to have their accessibility increased, which is fine. The devs just need to take that into consideration I suppose. But it can depend on why these players don't want to do this kind of content. Do they not want to do it because they think its out of their reach or do they just legitimately not have any interest in that kind of content?

Casdha wrote: »

You will never see training for what players figure out for themselves other than from other players that know and are willing to share

That's actually not entirely true, as the devs do acknowledge weaving in game in one loading screen tip if I recall. So, yes it was unintended, but they've come to sort of embrace it as a mechanic. This can happen in game design, where you unintentionally make something more interesting than what you originally intended.

Casdha

Imnotsurewho wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

You're assuming the majority of players want to get better.

edited to you're to fix grammar

If by "you're" you mean me, then no I'm not assuming that as I've mentioned multiple times players may not want to get better and that's 100% fine.

If by "you're" you mean the devs when they refer to the need to increase accessibility, then that's a fair point. Maybe players don't want to have their accessibility increased, which is fine. The devs just need to take that into consideration I suppose. But it can depend on why these players don't want to do this kind of content. Do they not want to do it because they think its out of their reach or do they just legitimately not have any interest in that kind of content?

Casdha wrote: »

You will never see training for what players figure out for themselves other than from other players that know and are willing to share

That's actually not entirely true, as the devs do acknowledge weaving in game in one loading screen tip if I recall. So, yes it was unintended, but they've come to sort of embrace it as a mechanic. This can happen in game design, where you unintentionally make something more interesting than what you originally intended.

Thanks for pointing that out, sometimes I think one thing and type another. I believe it is fixed now.

Edit: and to clarify, I was directing my comments to readers in general that believe ZOS would ever spend time on developing tutorials for how many of these skills work in combination with one another. All someone has to do is look at this patch and its direction and all of the comments trying to ask for changes and then wait to see if any come about to see if my opinion/theory holds any weight.

MostlyJustCats

All they need to do is bake in combat metronome and make a door in the fighters' guild in each major city take you to an instance with a training dummy and an NPC that explains the bare basics. Then provide an "after action" report that's a stripped down version of cmx that gives you the basic information you need to know - how many LAs did you miss, and how far off pace from the GCD were you? Everything but the voice acting is already done and available.

Weaving is very straightforward and easier to get the hang of as long as you start with the basics. LA, then hit a skill immediately after (there is no cast time or channel on LAs, so really - immediately after), and do that every actual single second. That's it.

The biggest challenge (aside from narrowing the GCD pace) usually is waiting long enough to hit the little combo - not spamming as fast as humanly possible. A good weave is rather slow, deliberate, and each keypress is with intent.

Typing at 40wpm is significantly more challenging from a mechanical perspective, it's just more intuitive. Not that legitimate disabilities don't exist, but weaving and doing decent damage does not require joint busting speed or ADHD, it just requires starting from the beginning.

Demystify weaving instead of gutting what is otherwise a satisfying, rewarding, and unique MMO combat system.

JustAGoodPlayer

The best way to "Teach/Train the Lower Skilled Players" - is take players that want to go with you and go some where )))