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BETTER balance suggestion
JustAGoodPlayer
✭✭✭✭
A lot of players are dissapointed on current balance situation. It change the game in even more boring game play and make a big lose of damage, that even a lot of groups that farm some trials HMs are very dissapointed - because they lose that much damage that it becomes even impossible to pass for them. It do not solve any problem and make DPS gulf between players even bigger.
There are different players and different game styles people like to play. And if current tusk is make difference between different players less - current PTS changes are not even an option.
I play as main DK - and I am HA player. For a lot of last updates we get a lot of nerfs - that really change nothing in PVP for us, but we get heavy hits by our CP/sets - that we use in PVE (and some times PVP). HA builds exist for a long of time - and newer was concidered to strong before last updates. But for all this years nothing really changed - but exp players just play this build now
I start with - that: not all players like to do LA between skills. So make DPS difference less for LA+skill and not LA+skill players - is good idea.
But current realization is really bad ! You can not just nerf basic game mechanics to the ground. It is not even a option. It will make big lose of players damage and not really change anything.
The same time top DPS players will adapt using sources to up their LA again and will not lose too much damege - while other builds will be destroyed. So you not get what you plan to do.
Nerfing is not good way of doing thingth in a first place ! Better do not nerf any body - but buff more weak builds in DPS.
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If first idea was make difference of players who do no LA and only press skills not as much different from players who put LA between skills - yes the most obvious idea will be nerf LA - but it will not work. You punish all players not them. Players do not like to get unnesessary nerfs. But if you buff all players who do not press LA between skills - you make damage lose smaller.
LA = free damage between skills. And for META builds skills are first source of damage and LA second one.
Whyle you buff other players on numbers less than LA can do - META builds get no buff.
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Current META build on live can do about 120k DPS.
20k damage will be LA, so build with outt LA will do about 100k damage. I understand that LA proc enchants and some sets - but if we look on situation where this will be solved by some skills and sets - difference on just LA will be about 20k.
So build that just will press skills with no LA will make about 100k DPS. I understand that press LA between skills is harder than do not press it, but press LA+bash+skill is even harder - and DPS difference is less than 2-3k.
So i think if players who just press skills with no LA between it will get about 110k DPS it will be fair.
You can make it this way: If player do not do LA his skills damage is 10% more. So 100k DPS + 10% = 110k DPS.
The difference will not be too much and players will be more happy. LA players was from start in game - it is harder to do - so it is OK that their DPS is higher - but i think 10% difference is fair ammount.
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Other category of players are players who try put LA between skills - but some times lose it. it will not be fair if they will have damage less than players who just press only skills. Game have to motivate player to upgrade their play style. So their damage have to be buffed to and be between players who do no LA at all and les who do LA+Skill perfectly. It is the most fair option.
So we upgrade idea of buffing skills (If player do not do LA his skills damage is 10% more. So 100k DPS + 10% = 110k DPS.) to another -> if player do skill+skill his second skill that was pressed with skip of LA get +10% damage. If he press Skill+LA -> he lose buff to slill -> skill. LA damage more than 10% of skill, so META players will not get buff from it. Others players damage becomes closer to META players.
I think it is fair enough change too.
---
Some builds do not see their progression in just doing damage. So such builds prefer more sustain. To have good sustain and have option to support group or go to little more burst - making more damage but lose some sustain by using LA + skill - is idea of HA builds.
Such builds use HA and such thingth itself are a lose of damage for us. But with compensation of some sets and skills it becomes good spammable.
If as example you see LA + spammable in (LA + SKILL) builds - the same ammounts of damage HA builds do making by sets our HA attack as spammable and LA. So our HA = the same (LA+spammable) of other builds. Thats why it hit so much in parse. But by using it - HA players can not cast a lot of skills in rotation - i always cast about 7-8 skills + HA buff - that let me save 1-2 slots for helfull skills for support party.
HA for US is a lose of damage - but we get some helpfull tools from it = we get more free slots and we get better sustain. But the same time we get weakening - we can not block whyle we cast HA (if we block we do not get resources from HA back) and we move slower.
Thats why i do not think we are to overpowered but our damage now is unreasonably small. The same time we use LA,HA and skills in our rotation. In 14 seconds rotation i use aboutt 8+10 buttons.
Nerfing DK unique skill (moltan armaments) is not a good option. Better take this class as standard for HA builds. Do not make to much empower sets becouse while other HA builds have same buff it will not be really usefull for them. because they will better take some proc set that will do the same amount of damage. The same time other classes empower skill can be combined with some DOT+buff skill. And its length can be bigger. as example for templar - make empower buff from 10 seconds to 20 seconds. The same for other classes. Do not give DK sources of empower - now he is good balanced with magick guide 3 second empower passive buff. Better do not change moltan armaments - because DK have not got a lot of passives or DPS buffs that will make HA build viable for him.
The same time people do not like that HA builds do to much damage in PVP by just HA. It is not really true but OK - buff our HA more is not an option than. So you can buff our damage by buffing HA the way: after you do HA all your next not HA damage is more for 15%.
Why 15% ? With current nerfs we get about 90-95 K damage. Before this live update we had about 100k damage - so you already nerf us ! To make this difference smaller we need our damage back - and if builds that only press skill skills have about 110 k DPS - we need this ammount to do just the same.
2 handed weapons have such skill - but only powering next attack as example. So it just need some more buff in length and little in power. If such skills already exist in PVP it will not be a problem - because on other weapons you have less attack so buffing next skill damage is not so OP.
The same time i think - that HA builds are very good balanced. But if players think that HA do to much damage to them - ADD CP star - the same that was before in OLD CP that will give 20-25% deffence from HA. So players will have a choise - they can protect from our HA damage or protect from other players and get more damage from our HA. I think it is fair - because if they just protect from us or our damage get nerf - you make our builds useless. So to chouse who they do not like more - US or classic builds - must be on their choise in CP system.
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Other builds are those who make LA their main spammable. Some wervolf and other builds can use such game play. If you just nerf LA = you kill them !!!
I do not know how much DPS current (LA spam + low skills add) builds do. But to buff their damage i think it is possible to buff LA on some ammount if it was made after another LA. I do not think that LA will be a problem in PVP - so just add the same 15-20% to it.
So if LA is pressed after LA it is buffed too 20% if you press skill-> skill second skill is buffed to 10%. If you press HA all damage (may be not HA damage) is buffed for 3 seconds for 15%.
It is possible to do becouse you already have the same working mechanics as example monster helmey Molag Kena/ Passives on HA from 2 handed weapon and etc.
Do not make any other changes to dots and unique skills. (At least bad changes)
PVP balancing and Sorc DPS nerf.
Current NB invis is too OP. the same goes to sorcs DPS on live - it do much more than other classes. The problem is his Crystal skill - that hit twice - it is too big DPS source. To make damage less you can make buff from it longer, but make it reload for more time. As example it hits 2 times but not one after another but with 2 seconds reload. So sorcs will need press more skills between it.
I just show this as a possible option - and i understand that sorcs may be do not like it - but than tell your own ideas how to make you damage the same as other classes have ?
As for NB - current invisiability is to OP. NB can stand in lava - burn - bleed - stay in all ground AOES - and ... you do not see him.
Do not you think yourself that it is marasmus ?
So i as idea I suggest - some effects on NB be vissible. As example bleeding and burning. It will not breake stealth, but from 15-20 meters such effects can be seen on them. And may be some other effects too. You can not hit them with single skill but exp player if he see such debuff effect can try hit that place with direct AOE hit or use detect skill to check is it some body there.
I think it is more logickal and fair. What do you think ?
The same time other classes want unique skills too.
I can not say for all classes - but DK skills like WINGS and Stone Giant needs buff or better rework !!!
How do you like the idea to put stager with new animation of Stone Giant with out first cast to healer DKs and give DK stam whip with other morph ? May be with stager to ? So you will not need to change normal DK fire whip to some thing ... we see on pts.
Other classes needs buff to unique skills too. If i can clearly see that NB has invis and jump on shadow and sorc streak and pets - i do not see what unique skills have all others ??? So this moment have to be more upgraded.
PVE Balance changes:
The same time i do not see bows as a viable weapons in current builds to much. May be back bar bows need a buff - starting from maelstorm weapon ? The same time this weapons can be viable to tanks too ! Because i do not think that ground AOE made by tank in PVP will be a big problem ! And it let tanks not change to much gear for PVE. just take a vMA bow and put aoe to get some damage for overland content as example.
For now it is AL that i can remember - but i do not know other players Unique Builds and skills situation. So it will be much better to buff them based on idea of their build to - to not lose to much of DPS - on fair ammount.
I do not think that game really needs any other changes !!!
And one more - when you do such changes - calculate achivments the way that players with 20% from only skill rotation damage can pass it in time limit !!! Not less.
So if example players damage will be 110 k : 85-90k or even may be less must be enough to pass trifectas and any time achivments. yes it may be will be harder, slower - but possible to make.
Hear players with good builds ideas and make such builds playable by buffing their DPS to fair ammount !
DO NOT NERF PLAYERS !!!
And one more ! make CP stars you already nerf the same as before or at least make them cost less - to make more lower CP players use it.
TESO is MMO - it is OK that more leveled player is a little more powerfull ! But now exp is fast and better make CP stars cheaper than just nerf it !
The same time you can add usefull active skills that players can put on skill bars ! Thats for what you can make other CP for. As example skills with no a lot of DPs but some utility - like ranged skill that like crushn shock - stop enemys cast. But do small damage compared to crushen shock. And some cosmetic skills like PETS - as example fire atronach that do not make a lot of damage and even may be do not need both pannels to be active all the time - but like decor pet with little damage and some helpfull function as example !
Good luck to you. And as a player I hope for good PTS next changes.
Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 19, 2022 9:39PM There are different players and different game styles people like to play. And if current tusk is make difference between different players less - current PTS changes are not even an option.
I play as main DK - and I am HA player. For a lot of last updates we get a lot of nerfs - that really change nothing in PVP for us, but we get heavy hits by our CP/sets - that we use in PVE (and some times PVP). HA builds exist for a long of time - and newer was concidered to strong before last updates. But for all this years nothing really changed - but exp players just play this build now
I start with - that: not all players like to do LA between skills. So make DPS difference less for LA+skill and not LA+skill players - is good idea.
But current realization is really bad ! You can not just nerf basic game mechanics to the ground. It is not even a option. It will make big lose of players damage and not really change anything.
The same time top DPS players will adapt using sources to up their LA again and will not lose too much damege - while other builds will be destroyed. So you not get what you plan to do.
Nerfing is not good way of doing thingth in a first place ! Better do not nerf any body - but buff more weak builds in DPS.
---
If first idea was make difference of players who do no LA and only press skills not as much different from players who put LA between skills - yes the most obvious idea will be nerf LA - but it will not work. You punish all players not them. Players do not like to get unnesessary nerfs. But if you buff all players who do not press LA between skills - you make damage lose smaller.
LA = free damage between skills. And for META builds skills are first source of damage and LA second one.
Whyle you buff other players on numbers less than LA can do - META builds get no buff.
---
Current META build on live can do about 120k DPS.
20k damage will be LA, so build with outt LA will do about 100k damage. I understand that LA proc enchants and some sets - but if we look on situation where this will be solved by some skills and sets - difference on just LA will be about 20k.
So build that just will press skills with no LA will make about 100k DPS. I understand that press LA between skills is harder than do not press it, but press LA+bash+skill is even harder - and DPS difference is less than 2-3k.
So i think if players who just press skills with no LA between it will get about 110k DPS it will be fair.
You can make it this way: If player do not do LA his skills damage is 10% more. So 100k DPS + 10% = 110k DPS.
The difference will not be too much and players will be more happy. LA players was from start in game - it is harder to do - so it is OK that their DPS is higher - but i think 10% difference is fair ammount.
---
Other category of players are players who try put LA between skills - but some times lose it. it will not be fair if they will have damage less than players who just press only skills. Game have to motivate player to upgrade their play style. So their damage have to be buffed to and be between players who do no LA at all and les who do LA+Skill perfectly. It is the most fair option.
So we upgrade idea of buffing skills (If player do not do LA his skills damage is 10% more. So 100k DPS + 10% = 110k DPS.) to another -> if player do skill+skill his second skill that was pressed with skip of LA get +10% damage. If he press Skill+LA -> he lose buff to slill -> skill. LA damage more than 10% of skill, so META players will not get buff from it. Others players damage becomes closer to META players.
I think it is fair enough change too.
---
Some builds do not see their progression in just doing damage. So such builds prefer more sustain. To have good sustain and have option to support group or go to little more burst - making more damage but lose some sustain by using LA + skill - is idea of HA builds.
Such builds use HA and such thingth itself are a lose of damage for us. But with compensation of some sets and skills it becomes good spammable.
If as example you see LA + spammable in (LA + SKILL) builds - the same ammounts of damage HA builds do making by sets our HA attack as spammable and LA. So our HA = the same (LA+spammable) of other builds. Thats why it hit so much in parse. But by using it - HA players can not cast a lot of skills in rotation - i always cast about 7-8 skills + HA buff - that let me save 1-2 slots for helfull skills for support party.
HA for US is a lose of damage - but we get some helpfull tools from it = we get more free slots and we get better sustain. But the same time we get weakening - we can not block whyle we cast HA (if we block we do not get resources from HA back) and we move slower.
Thats why i do not think we are to overpowered but our damage now is unreasonably small. The same time we use LA,HA and skills in our rotation. In 14 seconds rotation i use aboutt 8+10 buttons.
Nerfing DK unique skill (moltan armaments) is not a good option. Better take this class as standard for HA builds. Do not make to much empower sets becouse while other HA builds have same buff it will not be really usefull for them. because they will better take some proc set that will do the same amount of damage. The same time other classes empower skill can be combined with some DOT+buff skill. And its length can be bigger. as example for templar - make empower buff from 10 seconds to 20 seconds. The same for other classes. Do not give DK sources of empower - now he is good balanced with magick guide 3 second empower passive buff. Better do not change moltan armaments - because DK have not got a lot of passives or DPS buffs that will make HA build viable for him.
The same time people do not like that HA builds do to much damage in PVP by just HA. It is not really true but OK - buff our HA more is not an option than. So you can buff our damage by buffing HA the way: after you do HA all your next not HA damage is more for 15%.
Why 15% ? With current nerfs we get about 90-95 K damage. Before this live update we had about 100k damage - so you already nerf us ! To make this difference smaller we need our damage back - and if builds that only press skill skills have about 110 k DPS - we need this ammount to do just the same.
2 handed weapons have such skill - but only powering next attack as example. So it just need some more buff in length and little in power. If such skills already exist in PVP it will not be a problem - because on other weapons you have less attack so buffing next skill damage is not so OP.
The same time i think - that HA builds are very good balanced. But if players think that HA do to much damage to them - ADD CP star - the same that was before in OLD CP that will give 20-25% deffence from HA. So players will have a choise - they can protect from our HA damage or protect from other players and get more damage from our HA. I think it is fair - because if they just protect from us or our damage get nerf - you make our builds useless. So to chouse who they do not like more - US or classic builds - must be on their choise in CP system.
---
Other builds are those who make LA their main spammable. Some wervolf and other builds can use such game play. If you just nerf LA = you kill them !!!
I do not know how much DPS current (LA spam + low skills add) builds do. But to buff their damage i think it is possible to buff LA on some ammount if it was made after another LA. I do not think that LA will be a problem in PVP - so just add the same 15-20% to it.
So if LA is pressed after LA it is buffed too 20% if you press skill-> skill second skill is buffed to 10%. If you press HA all damage (may be not HA damage) is buffed for 3 seconds for 15%.
It is possible to do becouse you already have the same working mechanics as example monster helmey Molag Kena/ Passives on HA from 2 handed weapon and etc.
Do not make any other changes to dots and unique skills. (At least bad changes)
PVP balancing and Sorc DPS nerf.
Current NB invis is too OP. the same goes to sorcs DPS on live - it do much more than other classes. The problem is his Crystal skill - that hit twice - it is too big DPS source. To make damage less you can make buff from it longer, but make it reload for more time. As example it hits 2 times but not one after another but with 2 seconds reload. So sorcs will need press more skills between it.
I just show this as a possible option - and i understand that sorcs may be do not like it - but than tell your own ideas how to make you damage the same as other classes have ?
As for NB - current invisiability is to OP. NB can stand in lava - burn - bleed - stay in all ground AOES - and ... you do not see him.
Do not you think yourself that it is marasmus ?
So i as idea I suggest - some effects on NB be vissible. As example bleeding and burning. It will not breake stealth, but from 15-20 meters such effects can be seen on them. And may be some other effects too. You can not hit them with single skill but exp player if he see such debuff effect can try hit that place with direct AOE hit or use detect skill to check is it some body there.
I think it is more logickal and fair. What do you think ?
The same time other classes want unique skills too.
I can not say for all classes - but DK skills like WINGS and Stone Giant needs buff or better rework !!!
How do you like the idea to put stager with new animation of Stone Giant with out first cast to healer DKs and give DK stam whip with other morph ? May be with stager to ? So you will not need to change normal DK fire whip to some thing ... we see on pts.
Other classes needs buff to unique skills too. If i can clearly see that NB has invis and jump on shadow and sorc streak and pets - i do not see what unique skills have all others ??? So this moment have to be more upgraded.
PVE Balance changes:
The same time i do not see bows as a viable weapons in current builds to much. May be back bar bows need a buff - starting from maelstorm weapon ? The same time this weapons can be viable to tanks too ! Because i do not think that ground AOE made by tank in PVP will be a big problem ! And it let tanks not change to much gear for PVE. just take a vMA bow and put aoe to get some damage for overland content as example.
For now it is AL that i can remember - but i do not know other players Unique Builds and skills situation. So it will be much better to buff them based on idea of their build to - to not lose to much of DPS - on fair ammount.
I do not think that game really needs any other changes !!!
And one more - when you do such changes - calculate achivments the way that players with 20% from only skill rotation damage can pass it in time limit !!! Not less.
So if example players damage will be 110 k : 85-90k or even may be less must be enough to pass trifectas and any time achivments. yes it may be will be harder, slower - but possible to make.
Hear players with good builds ideas and make such builds playable by buffing their DPS to fair ammount !
DO NOT NERF PLAYERS !!!
And one more ! make CP stars you already nerf the same as before or at least make them cost less - to make more lower CP players use it.
TESO is MMO - it is OK that more leveled player is a little more powerfull ! But now exp is fast and better make CP stars cheaper than just nerf it !
The same time you can add usefull active skills that players can put on skill bars ! Thats for what you can make other CP for. As example skills with no a lot of DPs but some utility - like ranged skill that like crushn shock - stop enemys cast. But do small damage compared to crushen shock. And some cosmetic skills like PETS - as example fire atronach that do not make a lot of damage and even may be do not need both pannels to be active all the time - but like decor pet with little damage and some helpfull function as example !
Good luck to you. And as a player I hope for good PTS next changes.
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JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭ZOS as a player I am interested your balance creators at least read it.
May be at least next patch will not be such bad.0