Show us.

Wikter_Bravo

Everyone has heard of the new changes that are coming to ESO in the next patch. Despite the amount of valid dislike for the new changes, Zenimax still want to push these changes through. It is my and several others opinions that these new changes are too much for one patch. It is also a change that is 8 years too late, had these changes been made 3 or 4 years ago, it might have been acceptable, however it isn't. The game is what it is. Damage was obviously too high for anyone, but this high dps was brought in by Zenimax themselves. For that, they made content that scaled with this damage. Now those dungeons/trials will still have that requirement, but only a few people will be able to reach that, doing the opposite to what is intended. The point of this, is that Zenimax should live stream their own team doing the content they created, with the pts changes. Show us how your changes will close the gap between core players, casuals and new players. Because as it seems, it will only futher widen it.

MetallicMonk

Spoiler alert: They will not tell anybody anything, they will continue to have no transparency and be out of touch, and they will move forward with machine gunning out poorly thought out/bad game changes.

Wikter_Bravo

I know, but It would be interesting to see how much they enjoy it. Or if they can even do it.

Dayhjawk

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Spoiler alert: They will not tell anybody anything, they will continue to have no transparency and be out of touch, and they will move forward with machine gunning out poorly thought out/bad game changes.

We can't have transparency and talk with devs, long as ppl keep death threats, threats and overall toxic/hate towards them. Can't have both ways. Devs speak out try and communicte then they get hate speech, threats, death threats, makes them not want to engage with us again. Don't blame them. No one's fault but our own.

MetallicMonk

Dayhjawk wrote: »

We can't have transparency and talk with devs, long as ppl keep death threats, threats and overall toxic/hate towards them. Can't have both ways. Devs speak out try and communicte then they get hate speech, threats, death threats, makes them not want to engage with us again. Don't blame them. No one's fault but our own.

I don't condone death threats or baseless toxicity, but I have no problem disrespecting a company that hasn't shown any respect for their playerbase for years.

So no, I don't think I will blame myself, I think I will stick to blaming them.

Mr_Stach

Dayhjawk wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Spoiler alert: They will not tell anybody anything, they will continue to have no transparency and be out of touch, and they will move forward with machine gunning out poorly thought out/bad game changes.

We can't have transparency and talk with devs, long as ppl keep death threats, threats and overall toxic/hate towards them. Can't have both ways. Devs speak out try and communicte then they get hate speech, threats, death threats, makes them not want to engage with us again. Don't blame them. No one's fault but our own.

I get this sentiment definitely. Death threats, Hate Speech, Toxicity have no place. But really quick let talk how developers view communication. We want discourse here talking with them responding to feedback as we give it. We want a little more often than a 1-2 sentence blurp on a disjointed Dev Comment.

Then this is how zos sees communication:



It's all about setting expectations, I think the community is very clear on what they expect and what they want as far as communication. But Zos has yet to meet the community halfway. That's where the frustration comes in.

IZZEFlameLash

Dayhjawk wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Spoiler alert: They will not tell anybody anything, they will continue to have no transparency and be out of touch, and they will move forward with machine gunning out poorly thought out/bad game changes.

We can't have transparency and talk with devs, long as ppl keep death threats, threats and overall toxic/hate towards them. Can't have both ways. Devs speak out try and communicte then they get hate speech, threats, death threats, makes them not want to engage with us again. Don't blame them. No one's fault but our own.

Not the reason why they aren't having communication with us. They just don't want to be told what they thought is wrong. If one of their project leads even post tweet about how 'tiresome' user feedbacks are and identifies with another dev more or less complaining about paying customers, you can tell that they just don't want to be told that they are wrong by 'lowly people' and that they know better than actual end users that experience very changes they implement based on their 'stats'.

Naturally, because of far from reality changes from devs, people want to know prior to PTS what changes were talked about in dev team. Just so that users can provide feedbacks based on live game experience. That is all users are asking when asking for transparency. Would you trust closed kitchen over open kitchen restaurant where who knows what may happen in that closed kitchen such as unsanitary practices?

Also about death threats, this will happen regardless of them being transparent or not. You think there are no death threats made to the devs at this very moment over social medias right now because they are closed off? I think not.

Tigertron

Yes. Do a nHRC and let’s see if you can even complete it.

pklemming

Judging by the Live feeds, I am not sure they have many people to test upper end content. I'd be really interested in seeing them do the HM of the last two dungeons, or even a standard vet Dreadsail Reef with U35 in place.

I'd settle for a vCR (not even a +1).

ApoAlaia

Dayhjawk wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Spoiler alert: They will not tell anybody anything, they will continue to have no transparency and be out of touch, and they will move forward with machine gunning out poorly thought out/bad game changes.

We can't have transparency and talk with devs, long as ppl keep death threats, threats and overall toxic/hate towards them. Can't have both ways. Devs speak out try and communicte then they get hate speech, threats, death threats, makes them not want to engage with us again. Don't blame them. No one's fault but our own.

Where I do not condone that behaviour under any circumstances the opening salvo was Rich's tweet invalidating everyone's perfectly justified - and ultimately proven perfectly valid - misgivings and stopping just short of outright saying that we were just being ridiculous while making it all about him/his team.

Obviously that does not in any way justify personal attacks or the extremes some people take it to - which could very well be considered a felony in many justice systems; shock and horror I know that you cannot go around threatening people with impunity - however neither is a particularly good 'conversation starter' for discussing his/his team's work, which is the matter at hand here.

Personally, because there is a large disconnect between their words and their actions, I am much more interested on the latter than on the former therefore rather than waiting for the next tweet where I am reminded of how much of an inconvenience I am and how much better it would be for everyone if I just kept my opinions to myself I will just wait with bated breath for the next PTS iteration to see how much of the criticism of their work they have actually taken on board and how flexible are they prepared to be.

JustAGoodPlayer

For last 3 years they nerf US - HA and other builds with 100 and less DPS, they rework our unique skills - as exampke "Moltan Armamants" in this pts to make it STOP WORK !

But they are ok with META builds that do 120k+ dps.

So all this tails are just EMPTY words, to make META builds even more OP than others.

They even do not say, what they want to change again.

So it looks just like i say. They nerf US again and meta get even more DPS.

Like always.

Why is it META - because they nerf all other. Not because it is MOST EFFECTIVE - no one even compare. You get nerf before you even try !

Even builds of 6 years old get nerf each update !

But LA meta - noooo just lets make it more OP !

Wikter_Bravo

If you're sending death threats, then the problem is you. Why I want them to run content with their current changes, is that it will show that it will require a lot more than just combat changes. It is change at the core of the game. In my opinion, this is too late for a game this old. Yeah dps is high, yeah there are dps requirements that you gotta do. But this was all done by Zenimax. Having a dps requirement is both a good and bad thing. It's good to have a target to reach, not only do you learn to weave and animation cancel, but it help to quicken yourself for things like speed runs. On the other hand, it does make some content inaccessible. Yeah when Craglorn trials were released, dps was around 25k. But the game has evolved. In order to push these changes, you gotta look at the content.

Imnotsurewho

They want to make the game more accessible, likely so they can bring more people into the game to enjoy it. Fine. They're a business and its a business decision from how I see it. However, as so many people have stated already, these changes don't really accomplish what they were trying to do. In some cases, they will widen that gap so much further because at the end of the day, beginning players haven't spent the time to figure out what's going on in the game.

So train them. Update the tutorials. Force them to understand how to break free. Make them learn how to roll dodge. Show them how important it is not to stand in harmful AoE's, etc. And for love of Zeus, teach them how to weave. I believe the only time its mentioned is briefly in a loading screen (if you have a good computer and connection you won't even see that for long and beyond that if you're new it won't even make sense).

Long story short, give people a progression track they can work on to achieve mastery in this game. Currently you have to go outside of the game for meaningful answers to very complex mechanics of how the game works that aren't well explained otherwise. Put it in-game and train up the players that want to get better.

Also if you're worried about access to top-end content, provide a training simulator for groups for vet dungeons or vet trials to go into a mode that has achievements disabled, but will go straight to certain boss fights of the group's choice and can at least let the groups experiment and play around with the fights so they can improve. At best, have the mode be able to explain certain mechanics to the players more clearly. It can all be very easily made lore friendly as well by saying its some Psijic thing to simulate the possibility.

JustAGoodPlayer

They just can not bring more people to get fun, because when people try to get fun they are forced to put on stupid sets and go skip content, that they want to pass )))

What is current DPS requierments for vTrials ? )))

Casul

You know here's something I never considered.

Everyone always say "let's see the devs do a trifecta this or hardmode that."

But like... what if they can't. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to develop content for a group of players who are drastically better than you. How would you create an actual challenge given you won't be able to compete yourself.

It would be like trying to have a veteran PvPer vs a new PvPer try to propose PvP changes. The perspectives will be drastically different because of personal experiences and priorities.

Following that how should they make content accessible without making the content hopelessly easy (just look at the current discussion on overland content difficulty).

blktauna

Imnotsurewho wrote: »

They want to make the game more accessible, likely so they can bring more people into the game to enjoy it. Fine. They're a business and its a business decision from how I see it. However, as so many people have stated already, these changes don't really accomplish what they were trying to do. In some cases, they will widen that gap so much further because at the end of the day, beginning players haven't spent the time to figure out what's going on in the game.

So train them. Update the tutorials. Force them to understand how to break free. Make them learn how to roll dodge. Show them how important it is not to stand in harmful AoE's, etc. And for love of Zeus, teach them how to weave. I believe the only time its mentioned is briefly in a loading screen (if you have a good computer and connection you won't even see that for long and beyond that if you're new it won't even make sense). <snip>

Training/Tutorials were brought up several times in the livestream Q&A and Wheeler's reaction was an especially big DO NOT WANT. Everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea until he made it clear he was not for it in any way.

This leads me to think their stated reasons for these changes are not the real ones. I'm a retired software engineer, and when I see a lead react like that, there's something else going on.

Mr_Stach

BuildMan wrote: »

You know here's something I never considered.

Everyone always say "let's see the devs do a trifecta this or hardmode that."

But like... what if they can't. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to develop content for a group of players who are drastically better than you. How would you create an actual challenge given you won't be able to compete yourself.

It would be like trying to have a veteran PvPer vs a new PvPer try to propose PvP changes. The perspectives will be drastically different because of personal experiences and priorities.

Following that how should they make content accessible without making the content hopelessly easy (just look at the current discussion on overland content difficulty).

I think that's the point that's being made, the Developers are making changes that affect everyone basing it off of their "80 Hours of Testing" but we have no Idea of what that entails of what the test parameters are, the whole point of the Class Reps was to get insight to funnel feedback so Zos could stay Informed, that failed. Zos is disconnected, we don't expect them to be logging 80 hours a week of game time so they can make the best decisions, but they should listen to the feedback of the people to do log several hundred hours a month.

While I might not like Blizzard in General, their new president, Mike Ybarra, he actually plays, he does Mythic Keystones I can't say he's top tier or anything, but I appreciate that he's playing at all. Also I'm not saying that Blizz is ANY better at Communication than Zos, but on Blizz Forums both Community Managers and Game Designers respond to things.

Right now there's a giant disconnect because Zos chooses to Disconnect. I'd like them to rethink this.