Why LA is not an autoattack?

divnyi

If the problem is that it's hard to execute LAs each second for casual players, just make automatic light attacks on the last enemy you've hit by light attack.

This solution is better, because damage reduction solution doesn't account for light attack proc sets and light attack charging skills. Making autoattacks removes light attack gap completely, makes the combat experience better for everyone.

WrathOfInnos

That would have the same effect as removing light attacks entirely. It would make combat slow and dull. The GCD of one button press per second is not engaging enough for fast-paced action combat.

Sluggy

Apparently this is exactly how it worked originally during one of the very early betas (I played during the later betas so I never saw this in action) and removal of it led to the current behavior we have today as the result of what was originally an animation bug when this change occurred. And no this isn't to give credence to the argument that it is a bug now and should be removed. Many games have features that originally started as the result of some un-intended interaction.

Regardless I personally like it the way it is. I enjoy the extra bit of interaction it provides so I'm glad they made it this way. But hey... maybe they could re-enable it as an option you know? Maybe provide a slight extra incentive for doing it manually? Would raise the floor without actually hurting the skilled players at all, now would it?

divnyi

@WrathOfInnos we have one skill per second either way. LA weaving isn't a click, it's learned behavior you don't even think about.

Pevey

I like the idea. Implementing this would legitimately raise the floor. It would narrow the gap. It would make a few players unhappy. But would be a lot better solution than deleting the existing combat system we have on live and replacing it with the abomination that is on pts.

MostlyJustCats

The reason it seems like LA damage is a problem is because that is what you do first. But LA weaving is easy - you hit the LA as you press the button for the skill. The hard part is timing that interaction within milliseconds of the GCD, which the PTS changes not only don't address, but exacerbate.

LA weave damage is the buffer for bad weaving, not the reason damage at the tippy top is so high. Without it (and without high damage lower duration DoTs), there is no forgiveness for a slower or erratic weave. You just don't do damage.

WrathOfInnos

divnyi wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos we have one skill per second either way. LA weaving isn't a click, it's learned behavior you don't even think about.

Skills are also learned behavior you don't think about once you know a rotation. Especially the 25 spammables in a row we're all going to do next patch. Are those not clicks?

IMO 2 inputs per second feels more active than 1 or 0.

couriersix

While I do like LA weaving, I don't see much wrong with having an automated option for those who need it since wrist strain and repetitive injuries can make it difficult or even painful for some people. As long as it wasn't forced on every player to use.

DirtyDeeds765

I dont understand what's so hard about light attacking before every ability.. practice it for a week and it will become habit.

karekiz

I would more go for Built in Perfect Weave addon in options.

Zederok

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

That would have the same effect as removing light attacks entirely. It would make combat slow and dull. The GCD of one button press per second is not engaging enough for fast-paced action combat.

Almost every game in existence that features action combat like ARPG's and some MMO's have a 1 sec GCD or even a queue system and they all are pretty face paced. Removing Light Attack weaving will do nothing but increase the joy and unneeded complexity of ESO's combat.

Wing

divnyi wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos we have one skill per second either way. LA weaving isn't a click, it's learned behavior you don't even think about.

this

its hard to describe the act, because when you focus on the actual mouse click you trip up and slow down and spiral out of your rhythm, you just play, its muscle memory like any instrument or game i guess.

Tigertron

I like it as well. I say take it one step further and autoweave your spamable.

Make it optionable so I can do my own weaving and I good with it. Bingo. That’s all they need to do.

Suligost

There is something very wrong with ESO combat which casuses all that problems with balancing it. Autolight attack could be step towards and after that... more skills, cooldowns, more classic approach, impactful skills. Just there is so much weird, spamming.

Seriously this going back and forth is caused by lack of cooldowns, impact on combat outside of smashing heal or burst to outdamage heal that never ends due to how resources work. Where is proper combat? Why even 1vs1 feels like gang.

Chilly-McFreeze

Zederok wrote: »

Removing Light Attack weaving will do nothing but increase the joy and unneeded complexity of ESO's combat.

Talk for yourself. It wouldn't bring me nor many others joy to remove weaving. And neither is it "complex" to hit LMB after a skill, it's a rythm thing, not rocket science.

WrathOfInnos

Zederok wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

That would have the same effect as removing light attacks entirely. It would make combat slow and dull. The GCD of one button press per second is not engaging enough for fast-paced action combat.

Almost every game in existence that features action combat like ARPG's and some MMO's have a 1 sec GCD or even a queue system and they all are pretty face paced. Removing Light Attack weaving will do nothing but increase the joy and unneeded complexity of ESO's combat.

@Zederok I can happily say I've never played or heard of any ARPG's with a GCD of 1 sec or greater. Those don't sound like they could rightly be labeled "action". Do you have any examples? No combos? Mixed attack types? No ability to land two hits on an enemy within a single second?

I wouldn't compare ESO to other MMO's because combat in other MMO's is atrocious.

The closest I've seen would be FFXIV, but even that has numerous abilities off the GCD. Still was a little slow for my taste, like ESO with way more cast times.

ESO needs a certain level of combat complexity. Not too much to lock players out of content, and it should be taught better in game, but I firmly believe every player can weave moderately well with a little practice. It's easy, and it's fun to find that rhythm and feel the reward.

robofly

Honestly, just doing this instead of the changes they made would be better. In my opinion though, the best way to do it would be to implement this as a togglable option under either the Combat or Accessibility menus. That way it would actually raise the floor, and help people who physically can't LA weave, while also not killing the fun that endgame players have with the current combat system.

JustAGoodPlayer

In protection of LA - i as HA player can say:

Teso is not wow, it try to be more dinamick and it is good. Here you are limited with only 12 skills on panel and some action is not really bad, or game can be boring for some people.

It really take some concentration to do and some times it is even little fun, but not all the time and some times when server have hard lags - it do not make you happy.

The problem is, that now it is too big source of damage.

It is some players way of gameplay, as example there are even builds who only use LA, and it is interesting part of their gameplay.

For other players who do not like - it is a problem, because we lose to much DPS, but if we can avoid such big difference it will be OK.

I as example use HA as spammable between skills on lightning staff. And i like how it looks like, i like such game play. The same with LA players.

But for some reason for a long period of time they treat themselves as some elit group who promote their game style to all other players, who even was not interested. And they try to learn us from position of "as they are more exp".

But for exp player is not hard to do it, so a lot of players learn it easely per 1 day, it is not some hard thing to do - but a lot of people just do not like it.

Some players like combo, some just press skills in rotation, some like HA and casting abilitys with beam effect. So if any style be +- the same it will be better than promotion of some 1 thing.

LA needs more button be pressed, so if they get more DPS it is good, but if it will not be to much different from other play styles.

Do LA+Skill+bash is harder too, but they do not have much more damage than la+skill, so if just skill press rotation will be not far different in damage from just skill press it will be good change.

HA cast long and you can not press a lot of skills, you are more open to get damage, but you observe battle field, so it has + and - to.

HA works in a spammable in such builds and let you rotate camera 360 degrees, that is very important too to plan you next actions.

The same time LA is a way to activate a lot of effects in moment you need - so if it be automatick it will be a problem.

It is not a problem in LA, it is more problem that for some players they lose to much damage without it. Some players do not even like it. But some do.

So it just must not be to important to players who do not like to use it.

LA+skill is harder to do, but some times it can be interesting to do. If nothing happens around, just to press button fast to go some kind of burst attack.

In HA builds we use LA too, we observe situation but some times - we just press buttons fast when nothing happens.

And it is some thing, that is good in game - but it must not be "must have" and more important !!! - other players must not go and talk about "wiwing", you mist do "wiwing" and etc.

I think that the most part problem that LA players have now is because they already made all other players angry )))

So the most problem is even they than LA itself )))

But now it is too big source od META builds. So if some builds with 120-140 k dps lose damage from it it will be OK.

But other builds with 90-100 k dps must not be damaged. And it is not some easy way todo.

Just nerf LA will damage a lot of players build.

It have to be nerfed some more smart way. As example lose damage after some strikes with some time to get back in power.

If you just nerf it - as example werfolf feels pain, people with bad rotation feels pain.

But if as example 5 LA do normal damage than other 5 seconds you strike it weaker and wervolfs or some sets are unnefected to such weaknes - it can be better help.

If just nerf it - to much players will get damage to their builds - who must not get nerf, but they will get it

Amphithoe

I always feel that I have no idea if a LA actually registrars amidst all the horrible animations and ability effects.

JustAGoodPlayer

KnightsMentor wrote: »

I always feel that I have no idea if a LA actually registrars amidst all the horrible animations and ability effects.

Some players like such play.

A lot of them do not even do 100k + damage, so it will not be good if they get nerf.

Only players with 110- 120-140k dps have to get it. Because they are root of a problem )

DomstarX

I Like the idea but would rather make an option to fire an automated LA after every skill cast.
This targets either the closest enemy in range or your tap target.

This way you could keep your own pace and also stop doing LA If needed, like for certain encounters with damage stops.

Also you dont have perfect precision and timing with every LA If you dont follow the Skill GCD. So no effect on the endgame players but it helps new players to learn the rhythm and encourages them to use skills instead of just LAs.

divnyi

DomstarX wrote: »

I Like the idea but would rather make an option to fire an automated LA after every skill cast.

Being autos after you hit first give more control - you can hit LA in the air to stop, you can do several skills without LA if it is important (like next attack crit/damage boost).

Vaoh

So we’ll have Companions, powerful proc sets, and automatic light attacks. May as well use a macro to perform a rotation for you too.

The game is pretty much playing itself lol. Boring.

DomstarX

divnyi wrote: »

you can do several skills without LA if it is important (like next attack crit/damage boost).

I cant think of any basic Situation where you would rather cast multiple skills in a row than to LAW, except like pre-buffing. But this could be solved if the LA only fires during combat.


For beginner to mid level players i see no advantage in casting skills without LAW. Thats the reason this auto LA system would be implemented, right?

Elsonso

divnyi wrote: »

If the problem is that it's hard to execute LAs each second for casual players, just make automatic light attacks on the last enemy you've hit by light attack.

This solution is better, because damage reduction solution doesn't account for light attack proc sets and light attack charging skills. Making autoattacks removes light attack gap completely, makes the combat experience better for everyone.

Having played both, I prefer manual LA and not automatic LA. The automatic LA makes me feel like more of a button pressing expert and less like someone that is fighting a monster in a video game. This is one of the reasons I dislike WoW combat rather intensely.

JustAGoodPlayer

Manual LA is really better.

What is LA - free damage. We do not really need to nerf it at all. We can add other sources of it.

But if they add as example buff after skill - if you do no LA after skill next skill hit 10% more as example - the difference will not be to big and players just can use or not LA.

The same for HA - after HA buff all damage on 10-15% for some emmount of time as exampke 3-4seconds.

So you can use HA/LA or only skills and do normal damage, difference will not be too big.

So no players get damage. Top builds will get nothing from it and will have the same DPS and all be happy.

The same mechanick already existed in 2 handed weapon. It can be a little fixed for different weapons and all be fine i think.

divnyi

@Elsonso turn it off in settings then?

@Vaoh we had pets and sets for ages. Xbox bots are prime example of how easy is it to kill overland without taking aim. It doesn't change a thing in harder content, which is about mechanics and coordination.

JustAGoodPlayer

divnyi wrote: »

@Elsonso turn it off in settings then?

@Vaoh we had pets and sets for ages. Xbox bots are prime example of how easy is it to kill overland without taking aim. It doesn't change a thing in harder content, which is about mechanics and coordination.

It is not as simple. As exampke how will you block or do HA with this settingth on ?

And it can activate some set on big GCD, so it can even be a problem too.

But yes, to add some free sort of damage if you do no LA between skills can be a solve to problem.

LA is free damage so, we can just add another source of it, but not la as example. Thats why buff is the most simple thing i think.

No LA = some buff to all damage. Do LA lose buff.

HA is lose of damage itself, so HA give some buff of all damage too.

DomstarX

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

Manual LA is really better.

if you do no LA after skill next skill hit 10% more as example - the difference will not be to big and players just can use or not LA.

If you amplify a heavy hitting execute with 10% you could end Up doing more damage with No LAs vs someone who perfectly LAW. Feels not fair to me, If you can do more damage with less inputs. Plus the 140k dudes could abuse this and intentionally not LA at some points in there Rotation. Increasing the Skill ceilling even more.

divnyi

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

@Elsonso turn it off in settings then?

@Vaoh we had pets and sets for ages. Xbox bots are prime example of how easy is it to kill overland without taking aim. It doesn't change a thing in harder content, which is about mechanics and coordination.

It is not as simple. As exampke how will you block or do HA with this settingth on ?

Ez. LA fires every time it's possible to fire it, on a target that is highlighted after you performed first LA, unless you are in invisible/stealth state.

If you block, out of range, doing HA - it is not possible to fire LA.

If you don't do anything, LAs are performed at the fastest speed possible, as if you were mashing the button very fast.

divnyi

DomstarX wrote: »

For beginner to mid level players i see no advantage in casting skills without LAW. Thats the reason this auto LA system would be implemented, right?

I mean you need to hit LA on the boss once during the whole fight. It's not making the game lot harder.