What purpose does Magicka night blade serve?

spacefracking

Lowest parse
2nd worst tanking class
2nd worst healing class
No reasonably important buffs
Completely dropped off the leaderboard for most content on eso-logs

What's the deal? There wasn't a single adjustment to it in this patch other than altering a healing ability.

It's becoming a joke because it's so bad. Hitting 10-20% lower than the majority of the other classes.

Surely it doesn't exist purely for the pretty-alright-i-guess Impale ability.

Smdh. Forlorn and forgotten in pve, and everything in pvp is cracked in pvp now anyway

Tannus15

Someone needs to dig up those antiquities for the your stamsorc.

Troodon80

spacefracking wrote: »

2nd worst healing class
No reasonably important buffs
Completely dropped off the leaderboard for most content on eso-logs

You've not seen the World's First Swashbuckler Supreme on EU by Unchained Animals, I assume? Or other scorepushing groups? Or just about any of the highest scoring groups not even aiming for world records?

Wipe on Reset and Unchained Animals on EU both have Nightblade healers. An NA group holding highest score in Rockgrove this patch has a Nightblade healer. Some of the highest scoring groups so far have Nightblade healers. I'm not sure why you consider them "second worst." *Shrug*

There's a reason why end game groups are moving over to Nightblade healing (partially because Templar healing is completely and utterly obsolete). That people are not actively chasing that meta doesn't mean not they're good; it's very much the opposite.

jecks33

spacefracking wrote: »

2nd worst tanking class

I have a tank for every class and Nightblade tank is by far the most complete and easy to use. He have the big mitigations in the game, incredible self healing, CC, costant stamina back even while blocking, speed buff.
The only lack is group utility that affect stamina dps chars only.

colossalvoids

Quite funny seeing NB healers called second grade this patch.

Also dd wise you shouldn't judge by parse at all, it's different metrics that have less to do with actual raiding experience.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

for me, the thing I hate about Mag NB is the cast speed cadence of Swallow Soul and Light Attack. It's not fun, and killed my enjoyment in my former main.

Why be a MagNB when I could me a Mag Templar, have that huge aoe ground heal, regardless of ring Effectively One Bar a build and still have amazing damage and self healing sustain.

The class will never get an overhaul so long as it has stealth, and its benefit used in pvp.

Just reroll already and turn your MagNB into a crafter.

DigiAngel

Bombblade.

iaminc

Dunno what your on about OP.

I heal tank dps and PvP all on one character , mag blade.

It’s solid tanking , great healing , very good burst in PvP and although it’s not the highest dummy whacker (like it matters in content) it’s nowhere near as bad as you make out.

Kalik_Gold

Ka-boom

Grianasteri

It is possible that at the elite end of the game, NB has less utility. Though I am not sure and plenty in the thread seem to suggest otherwise.

But personally I have several, both mag and stam and I have fun with them all.

PVP, stamina sniper.
PVP, magica bomber.
PVE, magica DPS.
PVE, stamina DPS.

Grandchamp1989

What makes the NB healer so superior now? Really curious here..

Troodon80

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

What makes the NB healer so superior now? Really curious here..

It comes down to optimisation. With the way hybridisation works now, it takes the higher of either weapon or spell damage and the higher of either weapon or spell critical. In other words, you need only a nightblade or a sorcerer in the group. Not specifically both. With the top groups essentially stacking on stamcros similar to when Elsweyr came out. There's no harm in having both, but both are not specifically needed.

With a DK tank in the group for Stagger and Igneous Weapons (also giving both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality) you don't need a templar, since you can either spec for Minor Sorcery with Spell Damage glyphs or for Minor Brutality with Weapon Damage glyphs, and with DK providing overall better benefits there's no real reason to spec toward Spell Damage in coordinated groups. You'll also see in some higher end groups where their "magicka" characters are using Weapon Damage. With Templar being made completely obsolete, the choice boils down to either sorcerer healer or nightblade healer, and since sorcerer has some really good single target damage this patch and Crystal Weapon is a must with people running more medium armour, it wouldn't serve you to relegate it to healer.

A necro healer wouldn't really bring anything extra as you would have more than plenty colossus to go around and a spare warden healer is redundant. Going nightblade healer means they can parse a bit, too, since the whole point of going nightblade is a passive based on doing critical damage.

EozZoe1989

beacuse it does,, and its apart of the game why do people moan so much in the is game and moan at people for them having own thoughts and options on there own way playing let things be it is what it is lol

vivisectvib16_ESO

spacefracking wrote: »

2nd worst healing class

lmao no - refreshing path is one of the most powerful HOT's in the game.

Grandchamp1989

Troodon80 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

What makes the NB healer so superior now? Really curious here..

It comes down to optimisation. With the way hybridisation works now, it takes the higher of either weapon or spell damage and the higher of either weapon or spell critical. In other words, you need only a nightblade or a sorcerer in the group. Not specifically both. With the top groups essentially stacking on stamcros similar to when Elsweyr came out. There's no harm in having both, but both are not specifically needed.

With a DK tank in the group for Stagger and Igneous Weapons (also giving both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality) you don't need a templar, since you can either spec for Minor Sorcery with Spell Damage glyphs or for Minor Brutality with Weapon Damage glyphs, and with DK providing overall better benefits there's no real reason to spec toward Spell Damage in coordinated groups. You'll also see in some higher end groups where their "magicka" characters are using Weapon Damage. With Templar being made completely obsolete, the choice boils down to either sorcerer healer or nightblade healer, and since sorcerer has some really good single target damage this patch and Crystal Weapon is a must with people running more medium armour, it wouldn't serve you to relegate it to healer.

A necro healer wouldn't really bring anything extra as you would have more than plenty colossus to go around and a spare warden healer is redundant. Going nightblade healer means they can parse a bit, too, since the whole point of going nightblade is a passive based on doing critical damage.

That makes sense, appreciate the detailed answer.

xaraan

Troodon80 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

What makes the NB healer so superior now? Really curious here..

It comes down to optimisation. With the way hybridisation works now, it takes the higher of either weapon or spell damage and the higher of either weapon or spell critical. In other words, you need only a nightblade or a sorcerer in the group. Not specifically both. With the top groups essentially stacking on stamcros similar to when Elsweyr came out. There's no harm in having both, but both are not specifically needed.

With a DK tank in the group for Stagger and Igneous Weapons (also giving both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality) you don't need a templar, since you can either spec for Minor Sorcery with Spell Damage glyphs or for Minor Brutality with Weapon Damage glyphs, and with DK providing overall better benefits there's no real reason to spec toward Spell Damage in coordinated groups. You'll also see in some higher end groups where their "magicka" characters are using Weapon Damage. With Templar being made completely obsolete, the choice boils down to either sorcerer healer or nightblade healer, and since sorcerer has some really good single target damage this patch and Crystal Weapon is a must with people running more medium armour, it wouldn't serve you to relegate it to healer.

A necro healer wouldn't really bring anything extra as you would have more than plenty colossus to go around and a spare warden healer is redundant. Going nightblade healer means they can parse a bit, too, since the whole point of going nightblade is a passive based on doing critical damage.

1st off, this is a good write up IMO.

But, it does show a clear break between the top 1% of end gamer min/max players and everyone else.

Essentially this write up equates to: NB is the best healer b/c it can do some damage to also offer a passive to the group, not because it's actually the best healer in general. (I'm not dismissing the passive, buffing is part of the support job)

As a player that has run with some high end groups and some low end groups though, some of those details you went into matter very little to a low end group. Unfortunately there is a point where the actual healing (or pure survivability of a tank) starts to play a more important role than a buff they could offer - depending on the buff. When you are talking a 5% buff, those are usually the first that can go, especially when you think about the fact that buffing a top dps group 5% has a WAY bigger payoff than a low dps group.

I'm not saying anything you wrote up was wrong though, I just want some players that aren't in that type of group to realize half of that really only helps you in that sort of situation where you have top dps all building the entire 12 man group together to min-max every aspect of their run. Often when you see a leaderboard where the top support is a certain class, doesn't always mean that class will just feel objectively the strongest in that role to a player personally, but more that it serves the meta of a completely mix-maxed group.

I'd say NB tank and healers are in an OK position. Definitely not the best (in a general sense), but not the worst. I actually feel better for them in support roles right now than DPS. MagNB-DPS is a bit 'meh' compared to other options right now and also in PvP they feel the weakest (to me personally) unless you are doing something like ganking or bombing (which isn't really a back and forth fight and tells you little of how they feel stacked up against someone in more of a brawl). But even with ganking, stamNB feels better. I'd also point out that, even though there are some great mNB dpsers out there, a more average player will get better results usually going into one of the more obvious (and easier to top out) DPS classes.

I wouldn't say the class is useless or anything of the sort however, but does need a little love.

EnerG

My magblade is still my highest parse, and my nightblade tank is starting to outweigh my DK in the fun factor (dk still better for trials but ive played 4k hours of dk, nb is giving me a joy to tanking back)

Theres a saying in gaming, that the fastest way to hate a game is to be efficient at it. Where is the fun, the enjoyment of the game for what it is when you play for numbers, and not for yourself.

Who cares if nb is the lowest parse, do you have fun? Do you enjoy how it feels to play reguardless of what numbers pop up? Can you still play content with your dps? If you answer yes too any of these you may need to step back and reevaluate your relationship with min/max because its not healthy to hate something you play for enjoyment.

Foxtrot39

Regarding NB healer just how far can one push healthy offering and refreshing path?

On a full tank build I hit around 2k HoT with path and around 8-9k with healthy offering (granted im using argonian so I get a little extra healing out)

Wondering if I would be better as healer than as tank as I haven't tried it yet (the big burts healing can be quite usefull when tank got a massive unpurgeable DoT stack)

Holycannoli

Anyone else find it ridiculous that a nightblade is a good healer? The stealthy assassin DPS class?

EnerG

Holycannoli wrote: »

Anyone else find it ridiculous that a nightblade is a good healer? The stealthy assassin DPS class?

Even assassins need their healers, ones that go on missions with them are best 💖

Gothrock

Holycannoli wrote: »

Anyone else find it ridiculous that a nightblade is a good healer? The stealthy assassin DPS class?

Nightblade is not a "The stealthy assassin DPS class"

Kahnak

spacefracking wrote: »

Lowest parse
2nd worst tanking class
2nd worst healing class
No reasonably important buffs
Completely dropped off the leaderboard for most content on eso-logs

What's the deal? There wasn't a single adjustment to it in this patch other than altering a healing ability.

It's becoming a joke because it's so bad. Hitting 10-20% lower than the majority of the other classes.

Surely it doesn't exist purely for the pretty-alright-i-guess Impale ability.

Smdh. Forlorn and forgotten in pve, and everything in pvp is cracked in pvp now anyway

Uh, pretty sure scorepushing groups were setting world records with Mag NB last chapter.

I see more threads complaining about NB than any other class, but it doesn't seem like any of you are actually playing NB, considering how well they do in practice. Seems more like a l2p issue from where I'm sitting.

Cadbury

Holycannoli wrote: »

Anyone else find it ridiculous that a nightblade is a good healer? The stealthy assassin DPS class?

Throughout history, assassins have been known to using healing as a way to offset their roles as killers.

Actual documented footage of a Nightblade healing a fallen comrade:

Casdha

I don't enjoy playing them so for me the answer is simple, a Mule, the same job mine has had for the last 6 years.

spacefracking

xaraan wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

What makes the NB healer so superior now? Really curious here..

It comes down to optimisation. With the way hybridisation works now, it takes the higher of either weapon or spell damage and the higher of either weapon or spell critical. In other words, you need only a nightblade or a sorcerer in the group. Not specifically both. With the top groups essentially stacking on stamcros similar to when Elsweyr came out. There's no harm in having both, but both are not specifically needed.

With a DK tank in the group for Stagger and Igneous Weapons (also giving both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality) you don't need a templar, since you can either spec for Minor Sorcery with Spell Damage glyphs or for Minor Brutality with Weapon Damage glyphs, and with DK providing overall better benefits there's no real reason to spec toward Spell Damage in coordinated groups. You'll also see in some higher end groups where their "magicka" characters are using Weapon Damage. With Templar being made completely obsolete, the choice boils down to either sorcerer healer or nightblade healer, and since sorcerer has some really good single target damage this patch and Crystal Weapon is a must with people running more medium armour, it wouldn't serve you to relegate it to healer.

A necro healer wouldn't really bring anything extra as you would have more than plenty colossus to go around and a spare warden healer is redundant. Going nightblade healer means they can parse a bit, too, since the whole point of going nightblade is a passive based on doing critical damage.

1st off, this is a good write up IMO.

But, it does show a clear break between the top 1% of end gamer min/max players and everyone else.

Essentially this write up equates to: NB is the best healer b/c it can do some damage to also offer a passive to the group, not because it's actually the best healer in general. (I'm not dismissing the passive, buffing is part of the support job)

As a player that has run with some high end groups and some low end groups though, some of those details you went into matter very little to a low end group. Unfortunately there is a point where the actual healing (or pure survivability of a tank) starts to play a more important role than a buff they could offer - depending on the buff. When you are talking a 5% buff, those are usually the first that can go, especially when you think about the fact that buffing a top dps group 5% has a WAY bigger payoff than a low dps group.

I'm not saying anything you wrote up was wrong though, I just want some players that aren't in that type of group to realize half of that really only helps you in that sort of situation where you have top dps all building the entire 12 man group together to min-max every aspect of their run. Often when you see a leaderboard where the top support is a certain class, doesn't always mean that class will just feel objectively the strongest in that role to a player personally, but more that it serves the meta of a completely mix-maxed group.

I'd say NB tank and healers are in an OK position. Definitely not the best (in a general sense), but not the worst. I actually feel better for them in support roles right now than DPS. MagNB-DPS is a bit 'meh' compared to other options right now and also in PvP they feel the weakest (to me personally) unless you are doing something like ganking or bombing (which isn't really a back and forth fight and tells you little of how they feel stacked up against someone in more of a brawl). But even with ganking, stamNB feels better. I'd also point out that, even though there are some great mNB dpsers out there, a more average player will get better results usually going into one of the more obvious (and easier to top out) DPS classes.

I wouldn't say the class is useless or anything of the sort however, but does need a little love.

This guy articulated my opinion much better than my original post.

I have no idea what other than vAS2 nb's ranked particularly high in. The guy above said the chart toppers were NBs all over the place at the top last patch. All I saw was about 15,000 dk's and also cros hitting the numbers.

And to those that are talking about how nb is an "op" healer class based on a single tweaked ability, with an untweaked (although admittedly very strong) dps morph. I am thoroughly confused as to how this fits into the class identity of a literal assassin. It may be a new utility for nb, and that is cool, but in the light of a waning dps potential, it doesn't seem to fit so well.

As far as dps score pushing I can't imagine how parsing doesn't translate to content for things like all 3 of the dragons of sunspire, and all of the trash pulls (the nb power really comes from destro staff abilities anyway).

I will admit, if you want to queue as a dps and carry a very sub-par pair of supports through hard 4 man content, and not die, night blade is pretty much tops.

Also, I run a lot of content. A LOT. I have only seen a NB tank once in any serious group in at least a year's memory.

Also night blade bombing isn't a thing anymore for several patches now, at least on PC/NA as there are several much superior options (also options that don't require lag to allow soul tether to go off before the player is on the floor). I mean, corrosive armor on a dk is one of several clear examples.

I have no idea what platforms some of the participants in this thread play on, but I do know that magblade being toast as a dps is the talk of town.

Not to mention that to do nearly anything outside of ganking with a magblade, the rotation is by far the most complicated.

People can face-roll a templar or sorc to some pretty insane heights, whereas nbs can't even find space for inner light, camo hunter, race against time, fighters guild abilities for passive wd/sd buffs. And the reward for being able to do such a thing, as a thematic assassin, is extremely mediocre damage. Outside of shadowy disguise, the class would be better named "jiu jitsu master", which is just way off the mark for the idea of what one would expect of something called a night blade.

And to several participants in this thread, we must be playing on very different platforms and/or dimensions, as this gimping really is the talk of town. It took effort to get a parse over 100k without using 4 stamina abilities, the slim and stealthy profile of a _greatsword_, and "stampede" of all things (a word that is on the top ten list of words communicating "not stealthy").

Anyway, I believe that the class identity is on the verge of being lost, if trying to play it optimally in group content. Patch notes after patch notes my hopes for magblade have been dashed again (in this case, on the rocky shores of high isle).

Troodon80

xaraan wrote: »

1st off, this is a good write up IMO.

But, it does show a clear break between the top 1% of end gamer min/max players and everyone else.

Essentially this write up equates to: NB is the best healer b/c it can do some damage to also offer a passive to the group, not because it's actually the best healer in general. (I'm not dismissing the passive, buffing is part of the support job)

While I don't disagree, the numbers I'm generally seeing in terms of raw HPS are equally as powerful as Templar or Warden. When it comes to the role, it's easily up to the player as much as the class itself. If we take a look at this public log, you can see that the Nighblade healer has overall higher HPS than the Warden on Xalvakka. And if you look at raw HPS, they have close to 100k versus the Warden's 65k. People throw around "NB healer is second to worst" -- and it's not just OP -- without fully understanding just how good it actually is or can be, especially now.

And you can look at the other fights in that log as well; the Nightblade healer is getting over 100k raw HPS on Bahsei versus the Warden's 62k, who is Nightblade second worst to again? I'm confused?

Troodon80

spacefracking wrote: »

I have no idea what other than vAS2 nb's ranked particularly high in. The guy above said the chart toppers were NBs all over the place at the top last patch. All I saw was about 15,000 dk's and also cros hitting the numbers.

To clarify some potential confusion here. The person here:

Kahnak wrote: »

Uh, pretty sure scorepushing groups were setting world records with Mag NB last chapter.

Said last chapter, not last patch. Last chapter was Blackwood. And you can see some of the groups pushing scores in Kyne's Aegis or Rockgrove, for example. Most of the top groups had at least two Nightblades, if not more.

You're absolutely right in that last patch was a DK meta. And this patch is shaping up to be a Necro meta. But I wanted to clarify a potential misunderstanding there.

spacefracking

Troodon80 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

1st off, this is a good write up IMO.

But, it does show a clear break between the top 1% of end gamer min/max players and everyone else.

Essentially this write up equates to: NB is the best healer b/c it can do some damage to also offer a passive to the group, not because it's actually the best healer in general. (I'm not dismissing the passive, buffing is part of the support job)

While I don't disagree, the numbers I'm generally seeing in terms of raw HPS are equally as powerful as Templar or Warden. When it comes to the role, it's easily up to the player as much as the class itself. If we take a look at this public log, you can see that the Nighblade healer has overall higher HPS than the Warden on Xalvakka. And if you look at raw HPS, they have close to 100k versus the Warden's 65k. People throw around "NB healer is second to worst" -- and it's not just OP -- without fully understanding just how good it actually is or can be, especially now.

And you can look at the other fights in that log as well; the Nightblade healer is getting over 100k raw HPS on Bahsei versus the Warden's 62k, who is Nightblade second worst to again? I'm confused?

We can talk hps, sure, but when it comes to buffs, where did the night blade lay before the slightly altered refreshing path? Hps, except in select content is much less a priority than buffs, colo's etc. etc. wardens are buff machines.

spacefracking

Troodon80 wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

I have no idea what other than vAS2 nb's ranked particularly high in. The guy above said the chart toppers were NBs all over the place at the top last patch. All I saw was about 15,000 dk's and also cros hitting the numbers.

To clarify some potential confusion here. The person here:

Kahnak wrote: »

Uh, pretty sure scorepushing groups were setting world records with Mag NB last chapter.

Said last chapter, not last patch. Last chapter was Blackwood. And you can see some of the groups pushing scores in Kyne's Aegis or Rockgrove, for example. Most of the top groups had at least two Nightblades, if not more.

You're absolutely right in that last patch was a DK meta. And this patch is shaping up to be a Necro meta. But I wanted to clarify a potential misunderstanding there.

Ah, I've never heard of people speak about metas that many patches back before outside of nostalgia. And I agree, I am VERY nostalgic of what magblade once was, and it's current state this chapter. It feels robbed of its identity as a strong, and primarily, dps class.

Troodon80

spacefracking wrote: »

We can talk hps, sure, but when it comes to buffs, where did the night blade lay before the slightly altered refreshing path? Hps, except in select content is much less a priority than buffs, colo's etc. etc. wardens are buff machines.

The person I replied to specifically talked about groups outside of the top 1%, in terms of survival and actual healing. Nightblade is on top this patch, and quite possibly was for many patches but people didn't see it because it wasn't meta. Which also shows the impact that meta has on the collective mindset toward certain classes in certain roles.

In terms of what else they bring.

• AoE Major Projection from the Consuming Darkness/morphs ultimate.
• Superior sustain (only for the user, of course) via Incapacitating Strike being slotted or by using either of the two preferred Siphoning Strikes morphs.
• Hemorrhage's Minor Savagery.
• Major Expedition, Minor Endurance, and Minor Intellect from Refreshing Path (the latter two are the same as Warden, but Warden is a targeted conal heal where Refreshing Path is a persistent AoE heal and affects anyone who steps into it after being cast).
• Debilitate giving guaranteed Minor Magickasteal; it's not huge given that most higher end groups are leaning toward stamina now, but there are a number of magicka skills being used and sustain is still important. Looking outside those groups, a lot of people are still predominantly magicka. With Elemental Drain not really being needed now due to the number of sources of Major Breach, Debilitate serves a purpose here, as well as also doing damage.

That's just naming the most important. Warden is indeed a machine when it comes to buffs, but Nightblade is basically next in line. Second from the top is better than being second from the bottom. Though I would argue every class has a place depending on your group composition.

In more recent content where HPS is important, Nightblade excels. In groups which are not the top 1% where survival is paramount because players don't know mechanics or don't know how much damage they'll take from certain abilities, Nightblade excels. Even more so since those same groups would tend to be on the lower DPS side. Nightblade can also add to DPS and HPS simultaneously in a way that other classes wouldn't normally be able to though abilities like Funnel Health (single target) or Sap Essence (AoE).

Holycannoli

Gothrock wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Anyone else find it ridiculous that a nightblade is a good healer? The stealthy assassin DPS class?

Nightblade is not a "The stealthy assassin DPS class"

It's supposed to be. That was its original intention, just like sorcerers were summons and elemental DPS, templars excelled at healing and DKs were meant to be the best tanks. I'm talking beta days, the very very beginning of this game. It's why the classes are named as they are.

What's even the point of classes when all classes can do everything? Elder Scrolls never had classes anyway, but ESO did.

Too much homogenization now. We shouldn't have a nightblade join our group and say to ourselves "ooh good we have some heals now". What's the nightblade's defining role? What sets it apart from the other classes?

I'm very much a traditionalist when it comes to MMORPGs. Very defined classes with very defined roles and weaknesses, and let me tell you the classes that had stealth were not invited to groups for their healing abilities lol, or mages to tank or knights for their DPS.