Cleanest fix for Broakensoul: have some of the buffs only apply when Battle Spirit is not present

taugrim

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

No, I form my own opinions based on playing tons of BGs.

EDITED: remove last sentence based on follow-up.

taugrim

iaminc wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

So one of the biggest selling points about ESO is build flexibility and diversity..

LoL That hasn’t been a thing for at least 3 years.

If all you do is watch streamers and do what others tell you, then sure.

taugrim

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

I wouldn't run that build. I'd swap Inner Light with either Breath or Flames of Obliv.

I was merely addressing the comment earlier.

Wolfpaw

taugrim wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

No, I form my own opinions based on playing tons of BGs.

Thanks for the condescension!

Well my response wasn't at you, and wasn't clear if that's what he/she meant.

BG's small scale, mostly uncoordinated randos, No CP, solo builds...not the way to balance PvP in ESO mmorpg that was built around large scale pvp vet/cp player group combat.

Even solo largescale pvp still has cp, xheals, buffs, etc...

GW2 bg's did it best imo, everyone had access to max everything at level 3, no special items.

taugrim

Wolfpaw wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

No, I form my own opinions based on playing tons of BGs.

Thanks for the condescension!

Well my response wasn't at you, and wasn't clear if that's what he/she meant.

BG's small scale, mostly uncoordinated randos, No CP, solo builds...not the way to balance PvP in ESO mmorpg that was built around large scale pvp vet/cp player group combat.

Even solo largescale pvp still has cp, xheals, buffs, etc...

GW2 bg's did it best imo, everyone had access to max everything at level 3, no special items.

Fair enough, appreciate the response.

Although from everything I've experienced, when things are notably broken in BGs those mechanics tend to be problematic in Cyro / IC as well.

Wolfpaw

taugrim wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

No, I form my own opinions based on playing tons of BGs.

Thanks for the condescension!

Well my response wasn't at you, and wasn't clear if that's what he/she meant.

BG's small scale, mostly uncoordinated randos, No CP, solo builds...not the way to balance PvP in ESO mmorpg that was built around large scale pvp vet/cp player group combat.

Even solo largescale pvp still has cp, xheals, buffs, etc...

GW2 bg's did it best imo, everyone had access to max everything at level 3, no special items.

Fair enough, appreciate the response.

Although from everything I've experienced, when things are notably broken in BGs those mechanics tend to be problematic in Cyro / IC as well.

Regardless what position we take I am going to assume some nerf is planned, but it wasn't going live pts pre release. & I can't imagine why the continued balance work for PvE, CPPvP, NoProc/NoCPPvP, & NoCPPvP without better systems in place.

Brrrofski

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

Bloodgroove

Fixing Oakensoul is pointless if Zos doesn't also address resto hot stacking and almost zero to full burst heals. Healing is overrtuned, burst windows are too short as a result, the ring helps with that. Today everyone's complaining about Oakensoul tomorrow it will still be unkillable face tanks or players you can't out deeps vs. Their healing stacks. Pick your poison people.

NordSwordnBoard

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Or they can group up with other players, like they already do to fight solo players or smaller groups. I'm not sure why these players feel like they need even more of an advantage when they already put themselves in an advantageous position.

Because they can finally kill the player they failed to become.

divnyi

Yet another "let's make 30 pages long battle spirit" thread.

DaisyRay

My god lol this conversation has taken up three whole forum posts. The developers will do whatever they think is best, no matter how we feel about it. I hope they don't change a thing, but even if they do I'll probably still use it. I'm mostly just curious to see what the outcome will be. Maybe they should just take buffs out of pvp all together then we'll all be required to just "focus on skills". lol

Holycannoli

taugrim wrote: »

So one of the biggest selling points about ESO is build flexibility and diversity. While there are meta sets and skills, there are plenty of viable options.

Oakensoul has vastly simplified builds to the point where that differentiated diversity is losing a meaningful amount of its value.

Hybridization did more to flexibility and diversity than Oakensoul did.

The great thing about Oakensoul is you don't need to waste slots and worry about bar swapping to get those buffs. It streamlines the game.

I still think the game would have been better if they had never introduced the one ring to rule them all in the first place.

Wolfpaw

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

Alchimiste1

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

Holycannoli

Bloodgroove wrote: »

Fixing Oakensoul is pointless if Zos doesn't also address resto hot stacking and almost zero to full burst heals. Healing is overrtuned, burst windows are too short as a result, the ring helps with that. Today everyone's complaining about Oakensoul tomorrow it will still be unkillable face tanks or players you can't out deeps vs. Their healing stacks. Pick your poison people.

I think healing is the most unbalanced aspect of Cyrodiil. It's out of control.

Wolfpaw

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear<Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

Alchimiste1

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear>Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

nah, I'm going to ask for nerfs when its deserved. Good job at side stepping my argument though.

Magio_

Can start by replacing Major Berserk with Major Slayer.

Major Force has to go. Healers/Tanks will provide that in PvE group play anyway. In PvP, gankers had to sacrifice their Ultimate on Light's Champion to get Major Force when going in for a gank, which would also proc Balorgh. Now Oakensoul gives it to them permanently and allows them to use a damage Ultimate instead.

MEBengalsFan2001

I have a thought on how to resolve this issue that won't nerf oaken soul one bit in PVE...simply give all major buffs in PVP through battle spirit. Ta Da problem solved. You can now run 1 or 2 bar builds in PVP if you wanted to. The question now isn't about oakensoul being OP, it now goes back to our normal discussion about which classes need a nerf and which ones need a buff.

MEBengalsFan2001

Magio_ wrote: »

Can start by replacing Major Berserk with Major Slayer.

Major Force has to go. Healers/Tanks will provide that in PvE group play anyway. In PvP, gankers had to sacrifice their Ultimate on Light's Champion to get Major Force when going in for a gank, which would also proc Balorgh. Now Oakensoul gives it to them permanently and allows them to use a damage Ultimate instead.

Major protection for Major Aegis. This would reduce players defensive stats that wear the ring in PVP and if they want major protection they would be forced to use flare on a single bar.

Holycannoli

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear<Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

What about making a server that's only NoMythic? Keep CP and procs but no mythics?

Then we can see how popular and in demand a Cyrodiil without Oakensoul really is.

Wolfpaw

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear>Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

nah, I'm going to ask for nerfs when its deserved. Good job at side stepping my argument though.

ok, here's the non side step...you choose to play small scale in a gamemode that's built for 12 player groups for best results. You choose not to play this way, your loss. Even smallscale CP Cyrodiil you shouldn't have problems with this mythic, organize your group and cp better.

& why not BG/RW Cyrodiil that are No CP, No Mythic, & No Proc? You don't want a more balance to PvP w/o these up and down of meta/nerf? A sytem that leans towards gear<skill?....no you say you rather nerf?

Alchimiste1

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear>Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

nah, I'm going to ask for nerfs when its deserved. Good job at side stepping my argument though.

ok, here's the non side step...you choose to play small scale in a gamemode that's built for 12 player groups for best results. You choose not to play this way, your loss. Even smallscale CP Cyrodiil you shouldn't have problems with this mythic, organize your group and cp better.

& why not BG/RW Cyrodiil that are No CP, No Mythic, & No Proc? You don't want a more balance to PvP w/o these up and down of meta/nerf? A sytem that leans towards gear<skill?....no you say you rather nerf?

you are still side stepping my argument. I will say it again

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring?

Its NOT just solo players saying the ring is unbalanced. Its really just people that have played this game long enough to have learnt the mechanics of pvp well. Whether that be solo, small scale, large scale.

you also stated " why not BG/RW Cyrodiil that are No CP, No Mythic, & No Proc? "
did you know that oakensoul works in no proc/no cp cyro ?
it's actually funny, because in that campaign there is literally no other way to get some of the buffs that oakensoul gives
its probably even more of a balance issue there LOL

Brrrofski

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear>Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

nah, I'm going to ask for nerfs when its deserved. Good job at side stepping my argument though.

ok, here's the non side step...you choose to play small scale in a gamemode that's built for 12 player groups for best results. You choose not to play this way, your loss. Even smallscale CP Cyrodiil you shouldn't have problems with this mythic, organize your group and cp better.

& why not BG/RW Cyrodiil that are No CP, No Mythic, & No Proc? You don't want a more balance to PvP w/o these up and down of meta/nerf? A sytem that leans towards gear<skill?....no you say you rather nerf?

Everyone I know that PvPs a lot - solo, small group, ball groups, zerglings - think the ring is broken and too strong.

Next time you're in Cyro, pay attention to people you're fighting against and even friendlies near you and look at how many people aren't swapping bars.

It's insane how many people are using it.

People aren't just complaining because they're losing to it. It's killing build diversity.

Right now, for most classes and roles, it's the best way to play. By a long shot.

Wolfpaw

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear>Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

nah, I'm going to ask for nerfs when its deserved. Good job at side stepping my argument though.

ok, here's the non side step...you choose to play small scale in a gamemode that's built for 12 player groups for best results. You choose not to play this way, your loss. Even smallscale CP Cyrodiil you shouldn't have problems with this mythic, organize your group and cp better.

& why not BG/RW Cyrodiil that are No CP, No Mythic, & No Proc? You don't want a more balance to PvP w/o these up and down of meta/nerf? A sytem that leans towards gear<skill?....no you say you rather nerf?

Everyone I know that PvPs a lot - solo, small group, ball groups, zerglings - think the ring is broken and too strong.

Next time you're in Cyro, pay attention to people you're fighting against and even friendlies near you and look at how many people aren't swapping bars.

It's insane how many people are using it.

People aren't just complaining because they're losing to it. It's killing build diversity.

Right now, for most classes and roles, it's the best way to play. By a long shot.

It's a given a nerf is planned, just wasn't going to happen in pts pre release. It's the cries to nerf to the point it is hardly overland worthy is funny.

Build diversity? There's only a small portion out of all sets/skills in pvp that find the most use and success. Why? Because some players are always asking for Nerfs.

Now those past item(s) are nerfed into the ground, the new shiny item hits release, & the cycle starts all over again...yay.

So many players are using the new shiny? Well of course! What does anyone expect when everything else has been nerfed to the point it's banked? Thrassian, Malacath, etc...the list can go and on of sets, items, & skills.

Want real build diversity? Stop nerfing everything, & un nerf past item and sets, balance from there...like one to two times a year, maybe, by a little.

The ttk has been fun, Cyrodiil has become a little more dangerous.

Regardless, the cycle will continue.

maxjapank

Brrrofski wrote: »

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

I often see comments like this where one tries to validate their view because they think it is shared with others who are "experienced" or "anyone with experience." Perhaps those within your group feel the same. But there are others who are also experienced who do not share your view.

I have yet to be convinced that the sky is falling with this ring. So far, pvp has been pretty enjoyable in my opinion, more than it was before. As one commenter said in another post, people are dying now. There are some over-the-top builds that may need to be reined in. But I don't think this is because of this ring alone. Even without the ring, they are still a bit too strong.

The main thing about this ring is though it provides many buffs that we would normally put on our bars, it does limit the player to 5 skills and 1 ulti. And it really can be a hard choice having to choose those. It also makes it impossible to play a 5/5/monster/1+mythic. So you must miss out on either a monster or give up a 5p bonus.

Dem_kitkats1

maxjapank wrote: »

I often see comments like this where one tries to validate their view because they think it is shared with others who are "experienced" or "anyone with experience." Perhaps those within your group feel the same. But there are others who are also experienced who do not share your view.

I have yet to be convinced that the sky is falling with this ring. So far, pvp has been pretty enjoyable in my opinion, more than it was before. As one commenter said in another post, people are dying now. There are some over-the-top builds that may need to be reined in. But I don't think this is because of this ring alone. Even without the ring, they are still a bit too strong.

The main thing about this ring is though it provides many buffs that we would normally put on our bars, it does limit the player to 5 skills and 1 ulti. And it really can be a hard choice having to choose those. It also makes it impossible to play a 5/5/monster/1+mythic. So you must miss out on either a monster or give up a 5p bonus.

I suppose that was one way of inadvertently dealing with h.o.ts. Just encourage players to drop resto staffs altogether. Still some of the buffs are excessive IMO.

auz

maxjapank wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

I often see comments like this where one tries to validate their view because they think it is shared with others who are "experienced" or "anyone with experience." Perhaps those within your group feel the same. But there are others who are also experienced who do not share your view.

I have yet to be convinced that the sky is falling with this ring. So far, pvp has been pretty enjoyable in my opinion, more than it was before. As one commenter said in another post, people are dying now. There are some over-the-top builds that may need to be reined in. But I don't think this is because of this ring alone. Even without the ring, they are still a bit too strong.

The main thing about this ring is though it provides many buffs that we would normally put on our bars, it does limit the player to 5 skills and 1 ulti. And it really can be a hard choice having to choose those. It also makes it impossible to play a 5/5/monster/1+mythic. So you must miss out on either a monster or give up a 5p bonus.

There isn't a monster set or 5pce I wouldn't drop to have 100% uptime on major force, courage heroism. You are sacrificing a back bar. Not a 5pce set or a monster set. No monster or 5 pce comes even close to the same power as the mythic. Having said that, losing a back bar is a big sacrifice. Losing the ability to run a defensive or offensive weapon is huge. You lose probably multiple heals and or utility skills. But you gain a lot. A lot of buffs you would not be able to source in pvp or would have very low uptimes. Plus you gain the gcds that would normally go into refreshing your buffs and debuffs and heals. It allows a lot more time to be offensive. And if built right, a lot more uptime on ultimate abilities that were designed to be used sporadically.

I would be happy if they just took heroism and force off it. 100% uptime on 20% crit damage just makes for ***/ toxic gameplay.

maxjapank

auz wrote: »

There isn't a monster set or 5pce I wouldn't drop to have 100% uptime on major force, courage heroism. You are sacrificing a back bar. Not a 5pce set or a monster set. No monster or 5 pce comes even close to the same power as the mythic. Having said that, losing a back bar is a big sacrifice. Losing the ability to run a defensive or offensive weapon is huge. You lose probably multiple heals and or utility skills. But you gain a lot. A lot of buffs you would not be able to source in pvp or would have very low uptimes. Plus you gain the gcds that would normally go into refreshing your buffs and debuffs and heals. It allows a lot more time to be offensive. And if built right, a lot more uptime on ultimate abilities that were designed to be used sporadically.

I would be happy if they just took heroism and force off it. 100% uptime on 20% crit damage just makes for ***/ toxic gameplay.

Monster sets are not strictly for damage. Monster sets offer a lot of utility and some even have ulti regen. And while not everyone uses a 5/5/monster/1p+trainee, there are other setups that use a 5/5/monster/arena weapon. To say that there is no monster or 5p that comes close to the power of this mythic is true. But by using this mythic, you do have to give up a 5p or a monster or an arena weapon, which can be giving up very powerful choices.

And..as you acknowledge, losing multiple heals and utility skills can be huge when you must choose only 5 skills and 1 ulti.

The main thing that everyone also keeps overlooking is that quite a few of these buffs are normally provided within groups. A few in my group may not need Major Courage because of Oaken. But not everyone is using it, so we still need to provide Major Courage. And the Major Courage provided doesn't make the Oaken wearer any bit stronger as they already have it.

In the case of a Magplar, maybe I don't really need to use Channeled Focus as Oaken will already give me Major Resolve. But I am missing out on the magicka return form Channeled Focus and the heal as well. Having to choose 5 skills is really tough.

Brrrofski

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

You do realise though, that they're people who play the game a lot and have experience.

And a lot of the time, their views are shared by a lot of othee experienced players.

Anyone with any experience in PvP comments on how broken the item is.

People who think it isn't are either not very skilled in PvP, or want to keep the ring strong for pve. Which is fine, I'm happy with it being strong in pve. It just needs adjustments for that. Take away major force and major beserk and give it major slayer in that case. Still very strong in pve, but loses a lot of appeal in PvP.

And by your reasoning, people should avoid YouTube videos showing pve builds too? Because according to you, they're making builds for views.

No, of course nor. Many of those people's wore is taking as gospel, and everyone farms those sets. So much so, that people get scoffed at for using a different set that does 1% less DPS, because it isn't the set that one of those content creators suggests.

This whole "because a streamer said" attitude needs to go.

My issue is that the vast majority of content creators PvP experience and videos (check out youtube "ESO PvP builds") are based from a solo dueling no-cp bg perspective/balance, good luck finding group comp build videos.

That's fine, those builds bring the views and subscribes. But, imo, not how this game's overall combat should be balanced, as I mentioned above in previous post.

I can understand unorganized BG's may look ugly right now, I can see it in their streams (half of the streams has always been complaining X is op, year after year), but that's not the case in largescale cp pvp, what this game's combat was built for. This mythic is not op when you consider CP mitigation, group support, siege, etc...

Best solution is go the GW2 solution for BG's - No-CP, No-Proc, & No-Mythic. Better balance & Gear<Skill emphasis.

This way such small scale mini games like BG/dueling no longer have an impact on PvE & Cyrodill.

why is it that the argument people use to defend oakensoul is that only solo players dislike the ring? I mostly play small scale now and I think the ring is not balanced and not healthy for the game. I can't name people here because of TOS but there are other people who play in small groups and large groups(streamers included) who also feel similarly. I think it's very disingenuous of people to pretend that only solo players and 1vXers dislike this ring.

If someone is having issues with this, and other considered "op" items (later to be nerfed to the bank), they should consider all options better...fix your cp and look at the plenty of defensive options, run in a group with dedicated support, refresh barrier, major evasion, etc...stop asking for nerfs ruining every release the next pts.

Like I said make Cyrodiil RW NoCP/NoProc/NoMythic & do the same for BG's more of a emphasis Gear>Skill.

Leave PvE & Cyrodiil GH for players that understand this isn't a esport and want to have fun.

Fair solution.

nah, I'm going to ask for nerfs when its deserved. Good job at side stepping my argument though.

ok, here's the non side step...you choose to play small scale in a gamemode that's built for 12 player groups for best results. You choose not to play this way, your loss. Even smallscale CP Cyrodiil you shouldn't have problems with this mythic, organize your group and cp better.

& why not BG/RW Cyrodiil that are No CP, No Mythic, & No Proc? You don't want a more balance to PvP w/o these up and down of meta/nerf? A sytem that leans towards gear<skill?....no you say you rather nerf?

Everyone I know that PvPs a lot - solo, small group, ball groups, zerglings - think the ring is broken and too strong.

Next time you're in Cyro, pay attention to people you're fighting against and even friendlies near you and look at how many people aren't swapping bars.

It's insane how many people are using it.

People aren't just complaining because they're losing to it. It's killing build diversity.

Right now, for most classes and roles, it's the best way to play. By a long shot.

It's a given a nerf is planned, just wasn't going to happen in pts pre release. It's the cries to nerf to the point it is hardly overland worthy is funny.

Build diversity? There's only a small portion out of all sets/skills in pvp that find the most use and success. Why? Because some players are always asking for Nerfs.

Now those past item(s) are nerfed into the ground, the new shiny item hits release, & the cycle starts all over again...yay.

So many players are using the new shiny? Well of course! What does anyone expect when everything else has been nerfed to the point it's banked? Thrassian, Malacath, etc...the list can go and on of sets, items, & skills.

Want real build diversity? Stop nerfing everything, & un nerf past item and sets, balance from there...like one to two times a year, maybe, by a little.

The ttk has been fun, Cyrodiil has become a little more dangerous.

Regardless, the cycle will continue.

Outside of plaguebreak and dark convergence, there was a lot of build diversity last patch. People were using all sorts of setups.

Yeh, balance shouldn't be a three month thing, I agree. But with some things, they need looking at sooner than others. Hrothgar being a good example.

And I agree, the ring is fun. I'm enjoying using it. But, it isn't healthy for PvP. I think it hurts new/inexperienced players more than helps them. Because experienced players are making crazy builds that dominate more than before.