Cleanest fix for Broakensoul: have some of the buffs only apply when Battle Spirit is not present

taugrim

Here is Broakensoul's current state:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.

As people have stated on this forum, there are a number of problems with this many buffs in PVP:
1. they more than replace the buff skills that typically go on the backbar
2. there are buffs that are difficult to acquire solo in a single build
3. they allow better APM, since you don't have to cycle buffs any more
4. some builds synergize particularly well with Broakensoul, e.g. MagDK, NB, and Templar effectively sacrifice nothing

PVE players have been complaining about PVP players complaining about Broakensoul.

So, if we were to balance this for PVP without impacting PVE, the simplest solution would be to make some of Broakensoul's buffs not apply when Battle Spirit is active. This is the reverse condition applied to Rallying Cry's 5-pc set bonus, to prevent Rallying Cry from disrupting PVE balance.

I haven't farmed Broakensoul (and have zero interest in doing so while it's stupidly faceroll), so I'm probably not the best theorycrafter on which buffs should not apply when Battle Spirit is active, so help me out here with suggestions.

Here's a proposal:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.
(1 item) While equipped and Battle Spirit is not active, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Force, and Major Heroism.

So basically PVE players get everything, but PVP players don't have access to the greatly imbalanced buffs that are impacting PVP.

Please share your feedback on which buffs should not be available with Battle Spirit.

EDIT 1: swapped Major Berserk and Major Protection, so that the former is not active in PVP.

WrathOfInnos

I'm not convinced it's overpowered. It's certainly a strong option for players that cannot handle juggling more than 5 skills, or those that struggle with bar swapping in high lag.

However the opportunity cost is high. No other mythic effectively consumes 3 gear slots, as well as taking away 5 skill slots and 1 ultimate slot. Even with Oakensoul providing some buffs (not all, you'll still want things like Race Against Time), it is difficult to fit damage skills, utility, CC and self heals on one bar. It also means no room for passive skills like Inner Light or Bird of Prey, further reducing utility and damage. The Major Protection just means you don't have to slot Flare for the same buff, but traditional builds have plenty of bar space for this.

taugrim

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm not convinced it's overpowered. It's certainly a strong option for players that cannot handle juggling more than 5 skills, or those that struggle with bar swapping in high lag.

However the opportunity cost is high. No other mythic effectively consumes 3 gear slots, as well as taking away 5 skill slots and 1 ultimate slot. Even with Oakensoul providing some buffs (not all, you'll still want things like Race Against Time), it is difficult to fit damage skills, utility, CC and self heals on one bar. It also means no room for passive skills like Inner Light or Bird of Prey, further reducing utility and damage. The Major Protection just means you don't have to slot Flare for the same buff, but traditional builds have plenty of bar space for this.

PVP players in higher MMR BGs with Broakensoul have been facerolling opponents. Especially for Broakensoul builds that have a great ultimate.

Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides.

taugrim

A Redditor also suggested moving Major Berserk to the conditional buff list so that it's not active with Battle Spirit.

I was thinking the same thing when making the original post.

What do y'all think?

Urzigurumash

taugrim wrote: »

You give up nothing

To be pedantic, you do give up something with that over a 2 bar DK - AoE pressure through Breath, Talons, and Flames of Oblivion. Add Molten Armaments and Dragon Armor to those and together with the skill bar you described you have a complete and more versatile MagDK.

But it's more than made up for with the Single Target burst potential given by the 1 bar you describe with this Mythic.

Urzigurumash

taugrim wrote: »

A Redditor also suggested moving Major Berserk to the conditional buff list so that it's not active with Battle Spirit.

I was thinking the same thing when making the original post.

What do y'all think?

Makes sense to me, I would swap it with Protection, since that is a slottable Major Buff for everybody with Flare, i.e. something you do in fact give up by running 1 bar.

Courage has been left to make this something in PvP more than just a replacement for the backbar? Essentially making it also a replacement for not being able to run Olorime on the backbar - or other single-barrable Weapon/Spell Damage buff sets.

Urzigurumash

By far the main drawback for most PvP builds is not being able to run S&B or Resto. I think this probably contributes to the current high burst meta as much as the Force, Berserk, and Courage.

WrathOfInnos

taugrim wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm not convinced it's overpowered. It's certainly a strong option for players that cannot handle juggling more than 5 skills, or those that struggle with bar swapping in high lag.

However the opportunity cost is high. No other mythic effectively consumes 3 gear slots, as well as taking away 5 skill slots and 1 ultimate slot. Even with Oakensoul providing some buffs (not all, you'll still want things like Race Against Time), it is difficult to fit damage skills, utility, CC and self heals on one bar. It also means no room for passive skills like Inner Light or Bird of Prey, further reducing utility and damage. The Major Protection just means you don't have to slot Flare for the same buff, but traditional builds have plenty of bar space for this.

PVP players in higher MMR BGs with Broakensoul have been facerolling opponents. Especially for Broakensoul builds that have a great ultimate.

Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides.

One attack? People are dying to Molten Whip spam? Any spammable heal or shield can outheal Whip + Corrosive. I don't believe a build like that is a real threat, it has no pressure, no DoTs, no debuffs, no burst.

Urzigurumash

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm not convinced it's overpowered. It's certainly a strong option for players that cannot handle juggling more than 5 skills, or those that struggle with bar swapping in high lag.

However the opportunity cost is high. No other mythic effectively consumes 3 gear slots, as well as taking away 5 skill slots and 1 ultimate slot. Even with Oakensoul providing some buffs (not all, you'll still want things like Race Against Time), it is difficult to fit damage skills, utility, CC and self heals on one bar. It also means no room for passive skills like Inner Light or Bird of Prey, further reducing utility and damage. The Major Protection just means you don't have to slot Flare for the same buff, but traditional builds have plenty of bar space for this.

PVP players in higher MMR BGs with Broakensoul have been facerolling opponents. Especially for Broakensoul builds that have a great ultimate.

Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides.

One attack? People are dying to Molten Whip spam? Any spammable heal or shield can outheal Whip + Corrosive. I don't believe a build like that is a real threat, it has no pressure, no DoTs, no debuffs, no burst.

I don't think that's the strongest Oakensoul mDK, but Taugrim was illustrating a point there. I would drop Mage Light and/or Race for Flames of Oblivion and/or Eruption. Pretty sure you'd get more damage out of Minor Brutality than Minor Force, anyhow. (edit: my point was a little unclear here - Fossilize is also potentially flexible but unslotting it makes Eruption a must slot unless you're slotting Vigor/Catuerize to go along with Frag, Dragonblood alone has never made Frag worth the slot, in my opinion. Which is neat, Eruption was quite unfortunately irrelevant in PvP for years, probably the most interesting buff DK got was this skill's new cost.)

But yes otherwise Corrosive Whip is sufficient burst to kill many opponents - again, especially if they don't have an SnB or Resto backbar.

ketsparrowhawk

Fixing stuff with battle spirit is messy imo.

I’d rather they keep the major damage/crit/armor buffs as they are, and change everything else to minor buffs. Would still be an excellent item and gives you everything a typical 2-bar build would have and then some.

MentalxHammer

Deactivate it entirely in PvP, it's too polarizing among veteran and inexperienced players.

taugrim

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Fixing stuff with battle spirit is messy imo.

How so?

It surgically fixes the things that are broken in a specific context, without impacting the other.

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Deactivate it entirely in PvP, it's too polarizing among veteran and inexperienced players.

This may be the simplest solution.

Some recent Reddit debate shows that PVE players are fanatical about not changing it. I would argue it's trivializing content, but people want their faceroll in PVE, so...

DrSlaughtr

Only having to use one bar and not keep buffs and resources up is not a disadvantage. Can we please stop trying to make this argument? That's one of the huge benefits of the ring and the reason (according to notes) that it was created.

WrathOfInnos

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Only having to use one bar and not keep buffs and resources up is not a disadvantage. Can we please stop trying to make this argument? That's one of the huge benefits of the ring and the reason (according to notes) that it was created.

By that logic Sorcs were buffed when they lost their 3rd skill bar. More skills is absolutely an advantage.

Back bar is not simply a list of buffs, it allows for a 2nd weapon type, completing a 5pc set or weapon set, heals, shields, mobility, utility. Anyone with 5 skill slots and 1 ult is going to have some holes in their build that can be exploited, regardless of the buffs Oakensoul provides.

Kalitas

taugrim wrote: »

Here is Broakensoul's current state:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.

As people have stated on this forum, there are a number of problems with this many buffs in PVP:
1. they more than replace the buff skills that typically go on the backbar
2. there are buffs that are difficult to acquire solo in a single build
3. they allow better APM, since you don't have to cycle buffs any more
4. some builds synergize particularly well with Broakensoul, e.g. MagDK, NB, and Templar effectively sacrifice nothing

PVE players have been complaining about PVP players complaining about Broakensoul.

So, if we were to balance this for PVP without impacting PVE, the simplest solution would be to make some of Broakensoul's buffs not apply when Battle Spirit is active. This is the reverse condition applied to Rallying Cry's 5-pc set bonus, to prevent Rallying Cry from disrupting PVE balance.

I haven't farmed Broakensoul (and have zero interest in doing so while it's stupidly faceroll), so I'm probably not the best theorycrafter on which buffs should not apply when Battle Spirit is active, so help me out here with suggestions.

Here's a proposal:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.
(1 item) While equipped and Battle Spirit is not active, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Force, and Major Heroism.

So basically PVE players get everything, but PVP players don't have access to the greatly imbalanced buffs that are impacting PVP.

Please share your feedback on which buffs should not be available with Battle Spirit.

EDIT 1: swapped Major Berserk and Major Protection, so that the former is not active in PVP.

This is the best solution. Can we please get some sort of response on this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam? The current form of Oakensoul is creating an absolutely terrible PVP meta.

Wolfpaw

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

MetallicMonk

Wolfpaw wrote: »

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

Yes it's fine every single person is farming the same exact mythic and 90% of the pvp playerbase is all slotting the same exact item on every single build sounds totally fine. It's totally normal please don't touch it I'm definitely not saying this because I'm biased and I finally am having success because I don't have to think. It's a very healthy thing making an item so stacked that almost every person in the game is doing themselves a disservice by not paying 40 bucks and digging it up.

I love Oakensoul!!!

Wolfpaw

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

Yes it's fine every single person is farming the same exact mythic and 90% of the pvp playerbase is all slotting the same exact item on every single build sounds totally fine. It's totally normal please don't touch it I'm definitely not saying this because I'm biased and I finally am having success because I don't have to think. It's a very healthy thing making an item so stacked that almost every person in the game is doing themselves a disservice by not paying 40 bucks and digging it up.

I love Oakensoul!!!

Yup, just like every update/expansion pack in every mmorpg I have played, new sets are out & everyone equips it.

Stop with the insults, I was successful pre oak, & will be after. Lets also stop pretending swapping to BB to buff/turtle/hot takes skill & having to "think".

My point was stop trying to balance Group content from solo experience.

MetallicMonk

Wolfpaw wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

Yes it's fine every single person is farming the same exact mythic and 90% of the pvp playerbase is all slotting the same exact item on every single build sounds totally fine. It's totally normal please don't touch it I'm definitely not saying this because I'm biased and I finally am having success because I don't have to think. It's a very healthy thing making an item so stacked that almost every person in the game is doing themselves a disservice by not paying 40 bucks and digging it up.

I love Oakensoul!!!

Yup, just like every update/expansion pack in every mmorpg I have played, new sets are out & everyone equips it.

Stop with the insults, I was successful pre oak, & will be after. Lets also stop pretending swapping to BB to buff/turtle/hot takes skill & having to "think".

My point was stop trying to balance Group content from solo experience.

I'm agreeing with you brother! My friends now ask me what they should run and I don't have to give them any complicated answers anymore, I just tell them to slap on oakensoul and their builds are all better now! It's great to know that we can all just equip one item and hit a couple buttons and have good success when I get home from work.

taugrim

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

Yes it's fine every single person is farming the same exact mythic and 90% of the pvp playerbase is all slotting the same exact item on every single build sounds totally fine. It's totally normal please don't touch it I'm definitely not saying this because I'm biased and I finally am having success because I don't have to think. It's a very healthy thing making an item so stacked that almost every person in the game is doing themselves a disservice by not paying 40 bucks and digging it up.

I love Oakensoul!!!

So one of the biggest selling points about ESO is build flexibility and diversity. While there are meta sets and skills, there are plenty of viable options.

Oakensoul has vastly simplified builds to the point where that differentiated diversity is losing a meaningful amount of its value.

NordSwordnBoard

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

Yes it's fine every single person is farming the same exact mythic and 90% of the pvp playerbase is all slotting the same exact item on every single build sounds totally fine. It's totally normal please don't touch it I'm definitely not saying this because I'm biased and I finally am having success because I don't have to think. It's a very healthy thing making an item so stacked that almost every person in the game is doing themselves a disservice by not paying 40 bucks and digging it up.

I love Oakensoul!!!

Yup, just like every update/expansion pack in every mmorpg I have played, new sets are out & everyone equips it.

Stop with the insults, I was successful pre oak, & will be after. Lets also stop pretending swapping to BB to buff/turtle/hot takes skill & having to "think".

My point was stop trying to balance Group content from solo experience.

I'm agreeing with you brother! My friends now ask me what they should run and I don't have to give them any complicated answers anymore, I just tell them to slap on oakensoul and their builds are all better now! It's great to know that we can all just equip one item and hit a couple buttons and have good success when I get home from work.

LOL

I've reduced my build conversation time by 50% click the link below to find out how. By Adchoice

taugrim

Kalitas wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Here is Broakensoul's current state:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.

As people have stated on this forum, there are a number of problems with this many buffs in PVP:
1. they more than replace the buff skills that typically go on the backbar
2. there are buffs that are difficult to acquire solo in a single build
3. they allow better APM, since you don't have to cycle buffs any more
4. some builds synergize particularly well with Broakensoul, e.g. MagDK, NB, and Templar effectively sacrifice nothing

PVE players have been complaining about PVP players complaining about Broakensoul.

So, if we were to balance this for PVP without impacting PVE, the simplest solution would be to make some of Broakensoul's buffs not apply when Battle Spirit is active. This is the reverse condition applied to Rallying Cry's 5-pc set bonus, to prevent Rallying Cry from disrupting PVE balance.

I haven't farmed Broakensoul (and have zero interest in doing so while it's stupidly faceroll), so I'm probably not the best theorycrafter on which buffs should not apply when Battle Spirit is active, so help me out here with suggestions.

Here's a proposal:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.
(1 item) While equipped and Battle Spirit is not active, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Force, and Major Heroism.

So basically PVE players get everything, but PVP players don't have access to the greatly imbalanced buffs that are impacting PVP.

Please share your feedback on which buffs should not be available with Battle Spirit.

EDIT 1: swapped Major Berserk and Major Protection, so that the former is not active in PVP.

This is the best solution. Can we please get some sort of response on this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam? The current form of Oakensoul is creating an absolutely terrible PVP meta.

Thanks for advocating for this change.

It's the cleanest and simplest change that keeps PVE players happy and balances what is an incredibly imbalanced Mythic in Oakensoul.

ShadowProc

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

How about we stop asking for pvp to be balanced/nerf from 1v1, & no cp content perspective.

The mythic is fine as is.

Yes it's fine every single person is farming the same exact mythic and 90% of the pvp playerbase is all slotting the same exact item on every single build sounds totally fine. It's totally normal please don't touch it I'm definitely not saying this because I'm biased and I finally am having success because I don't have to think. It's a very healthy thing making an item so stacked that almost every person in the game is doing themselves a disservice by not paying 40 bucks and digging it up.

I love Oakensoul!!!

taugrim wrote: »

Kalitas wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Here is Broakensoul's current state:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.

As people have stated on this forum, there are a number of problems with this many buffs in PVP:
1. they more than replace the buff skills that typically go on the backbar
2. there are buffs that are difficult to acquire solo in a single build
3. they allow better APM, since you don't have to cycle buffs any more
4. some builds synergize particularly well with Broakensoul, e.g. MagDK, NB, and Templar effectively sacrifice nothing

PVE players have been complaining about PVP players complaining about Broakensoul.

So, if we were to balance this for PVP without impacting PVE, the simplest solution would be to make some of Broakensoul's buffs not apply when Battle Spirit is active. This is the reverse condition applied to Rallying Cry's 5-pc set bonus, to prevent Rallying Cry from disrupting PVE balance.

I haven't farmed Broakensoul (and have zero interest in doing so while it's stupidly faceroll), so I'm probably not the best theorycrafter on which buffs should not apply when Battle Spirit is active, so help me out here with suggestions.

Here's a proposal:

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.
(1 item) While equipped and Battle Spirit is not active, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Force, and Major Heroism.

So basically PVE players get everything, but PVP players don't have access to the greatly imbalanced buffs that are impacting PVP.

Please share your feedback on which buffs should not be available with Battle Spirit.

EDIT 1: swapped Major Berserk and Major Protection, so that the former is not active in PVP.

This is the best solution. Can we please get some sort of response on this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam? The current form of Oakensoul is creating an absolutely terrible PVP meta.

Thanks for advocating for this change.

It's the cleanest and simplest change that keeps PVE players happy and balances what is an incredibly imbalanced Mythic in Oakensoul.

Disagree. Fine tuning needed

MetallicMonk

The only fine tuning it needs is more buffs! I am still missing a few buffs that a full raid group has on my awesome new ring!!!

ShadowProc

Disabling it in pvp is a lazy half thought out fix. I agree fine tuning is needed. I can manage two bars just fine but I like not having to. It’s nice to be able to hit someone in a ball group and see their health bar actually move. Even pick some of them off when they fail to stay on crown.

Balancing should not be done for 1vx or small scale. It should be done for the entire populations and health of the game. This item was introduced to make it far less tedious to play and more enjoyable.

auz

ShadowProc wrote: »

Disabling it in pvp is a lazy half thought out fix. I agree fine tuning is needed. I can manage two bars just fine but I like not having to. It’s nice to be able to hit someone in a ball group and see their health bar actually move. Even pick some of them off when they fail to stay on crown.

Balancing should not be done for 1vx or small scale. It should be done for the entire populations and health of the game. This item was introduced to make it far less tedious to play and more enjoyable.

Disabling it pvp is a perfect fix. Good idea. People with low apm can go back to playing heavy attack sorc or ganker or tank.

MetallicMonk

Or they can group up with other players, like they already do to fight solo players or smaller groups. I'm not sure why these players feel like they need even more of an advantage when they already put themselves in an advantageous position.

DrSlaughtr

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Only having to use one bar and not keep buffs and resources up is not a disadvantage. Can we please stop trying to make this argument? That's one of the huge benefits of the ring and the reason (according to notes) that it was created.

By that logic Sorcs were buffed when they lost their 3rd skill bar. More skills is absolutely an advantage.

Back bar is not simply a list of buffs, it allows for a 2nd weapon type, completing a 5pc set or weapon set, heals, shields, mobility, utility. Anyone with 5 skill slots and 1 ult is going to have some holes in their build that can be exploited, regardless of the buffs Oakensoul provides.

No, and I'll explain why.

In PvE (prior to this ring) your back bar is much more active for damage. You have most of your dots here. Nearly all the buffs you get from oakensoul come from a healer (or they aren't available at all). For example, major force and courage.

In pvp, your backbar doesn't carry the same damage output. Instead for most builds it's for buffs and occasionally healing (depends on the heal).

The ring covers all these buffs plus some that you wouldn't have access. The only thing you "give up" is a second ultimate and maybe a dot skill at most. When you negate 4 to 5 skills from your rotation, it isn't a loss to only have one bar. It compete simplifies the experience to the one you have literally nothing else to worry about but doing your attacks.

So, again, can we please stop pretending that you're sacrificing anything remotely close to what you gain? Love the ring all you want. Let's just live in the same reality.

Theignson

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Wolfpaw

Theignson wrote: »

Taugrim said:

" Here's a simple build that addresses everything you've listed above, for MagDK:
* Race Against Time
* Molten Whip
* Coagulating Blood
* Fossilize
* Inner Light as a stealth counter (or whatever flex ability you want)
* Corrosive Armor

You have damage, utility, CC, and self-heals all on one bar. Along with an ultimate that provides high defensive and offensive value.

You give up nothing, and your APM is higher because you don't have to burn GCDs on buffs that Broakensoul already provides"


Just a comment, you need another ardent flame ability to charge molten whip. So thats why many DK run FoO. You dont have room for RAT or Inner light. I run 2 damage abilities, 2 heals (one HOT, one burst) , 1 cc and ulti. It is a highly limited build. Mitigation is not great (dual wield and limited spell/physical resists, around 25k with Bloodspawn)and no back bar for defense. The only plus side is strong offense which can sometimes substitute for weak defense.

Ive run brokensoul on 8 builds across 7 of my 8 PvP characters. The results are mixed.

For mDK with Oakensoul, I had 7400 weapon damage, infinite penetration (Corrosive), 111% critical damage, but my Molten whips were usually hitting for 6-8k. No one shots, and it is hard to see how to get much higher numbers. Maybe all my opponents are blocking. I think I did get a 14k once, and I know I got a couple 10ks, but those are not the average hit. Also with this build you do not have Dot pressure.

Please correct me if wrong, so you're saying it's OP because some youtube/streamer that makes solo builds for views made a strong "op" solo build?

I may have misunderstood, no sarcasm.

iaminc

taugrim wrote: »

So one of the biggest selling points about ESO is build flexibility and diversity..

LoL That hasn’t been a thing for at least 3 years.