ESO nerfed DPS

webgeo99

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

Ermiq

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

SeaGtGruff

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

Yes, but not everyone chases the bleeding edge of the power creep the way some players love to do.

When changes are made which change individual skills' resource costs, resource restorations, or amount of damage done, it might genuinely help to curb the outrageous power creep of high-end vet players, but it can also seriously impact the overall effectiveness of average and below-average players, which can be very frustrating.

I have to agree with players who have been arguing for a different approach to the balancing issues-- namely, establish overall caps on the various types of stats, rather than just changing individual skills, since the problem lies in achieving outrageous totals rather than in the individual skills.

jaws343

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

Yes, but not everyone chases the bleeding edge of the power creep the way some players love to do.

When changes are made which change individual skills' resource costs, resource restorations, or amount of damage done, it might genuinely help to curb the outrageous power creep of high-end vet players, but it can also seriously impact the overall effectiveness of average and below-average players, which can be very frustrating.

I have to agree with players who have been arguing for a different approach to the balancing issues-- namely, establish overall caps on the various types of stats, rather than just changing individual skills, since the problem lies in achieving outrageous totals rather than in the individual skills.

Caps just cause even more power creep, as players who effectively hit those caps build into other aspects of their builds and get the same damage, or even worse, more tankiness in PVP areas. And since everyone is competing with the same cap, it extremely stifles build diversity. You think there is meta now, just wait until you are only filling specific buckets to cap.

And power creep is game wide, not just for those at the top. I was just in a group over the weekend that 6 manned normal asylum in around 15 minutes, none of us were optimized, a few had never done the roles that they were in in the trial. I remember when Asylum launched and whole 12 man groups would wipe on normal.

jaws343

To expand on my cap comment, we saw exactly this with the crit damage cap.

They put in the cap, and then DPS went up, because players could build to the cap and then build even stronger base damage or crit chance than they were before.

Anony_Mouse

webgeo99 wrote: »

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

Did you check your CP? Some of the slottables were changed so jump points are different now.

etchedpixels

webgeo99 wrote: »

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

The interesting question would be why - assuming your data is correct. There's nothing in the patch notes thats nerfing anything like that.

TaSheen

Might it have to do with changes to the CP slots?

fizl101

Check your mundus stone.

Especially if you have loaded a build from the armory. Patch notes say it should save the mundus you currently have, but it didn't for me, and I found I was parsing without any mundus. Re-applied it and although DPS is lower as I expected due to the CP changes, it wasn't as a big a drop as I initially saw

etchedpixels

TaSheen wrote: »

Might it have to do with changes to the CP slots?

Those changed in the main update, not in the fixes :

My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday!

so if OP is measuring correctly whatever broke/changed on them happened in the bugfix.

fizl101

etchedpixels wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Might it have to do with changes to the CP slots?

Those changed in the main update, not in the fixes :

My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday!

so if OP is measuring correctly whatever broke/changed on them happened in the bugfix.

They may be on console who got the main update today

Kahnak

webgeo99 wrote: »

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

Yep, I'm sure you and everyone else that haven't read the patch notes thinks the exact same thing.

For those of us that have, fortunately, there is nothing in the patch notes that would indicate a substantial nerf to anyone's crit damage.

You quit WoW over a stat squish? Lol

Amottica

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

To true. Powercreep affects everyone. It leads to content being trivialized.

pklemming

Yeah, it isn't. We are getting higher numbers this patch than we were in previous patches. You may want to adjust your build.

Everest_Lionheart

Whatchu talking about mines way up on the (bugged) dummy. I’m breaking 120K on every character and it’s glorious. I’m suddenly a DPS god overnight because the game functions (not) as intended.

Meh…

See you guys in a couple weeks when they get all this sorted.

DMuehlhausen

webgeo99 wrote: »

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

Actually destroying dps is probably the only way to fix the game. Also remove all the self healing. Tanks and Healers, other than in trials (which is like 3%of the pop) are worthless in like 95% of the dungeons cause you can just kill things so quickly.

DMuehlhausen

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

Yes, but not everyone chases the bleeding edge of the power creep the way some players love to do.

When changes are made which change individual skills' resource costs, resource restorations, or amount of damage done, it might genuinely help to curb the outrageous power creep of high-end vet players, but it can also seriously impact the overall effectiveness of average and below-average players, which can be very frustrating.

I have to agree with players who have been arguing for a different approach to the balancing issues-- namely, establish overall caps on the various types of stats, rather than just changing individual skills, since the problem lies in achieving outrageous totals rather than in the individual skills.

You're right and this is the core of the player base. LIke 85%+ of it, however like it 100% of all MMOs the devs make changes solely based around what Raid / Trial runners and whiney PvPers want destroying the game for the majority of their playerbase.

pklemming

Just to add, yes, CP was nerfed. Even with that we are pulling higher numbers in content.

jaws343

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

webgeo99 wrote: »

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

Actually destroying dps is probably the only way to fix the game. Also remove all the self healing. Tanks and Healers, other than in trials (which is like 3%of the pop) are worthless in like 95% of the dungeons cause you can just kill things so quickly.

You can't remove self healing without ruining solo arenas, or making the game a living nightmare for new players who are in instanced questing areas.

etchedpixels

jaws343 wrote: »

You can't remove self healing without ruining solo arenas, or making the game a living nightmare for new players who are in instanced questing areas.

It's also not IMHO the actual problem.

Everything in ESO is linear scaling. In most other games it's all based on curves. Basing it on curves means that the rate of improvement of a given thing tapers off the further you take it. That in turn means a game is accessible to all, you get a sense of progress and when you get to being good, it's gets harder and harder to be even better. Just like real life skills.

ESO on the other hand with the linear scaling means that 30K, 50K, 70K, 90K are just even steps up the 'mindlessly grind dummy' ladder. Fixing that would mean lower skill players were not nerfed, but the upper limit would come down, and without a cap all the best players can still compete for the last 1%.

SeaGtGruff

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

Yes, but not everyone chases the bleeding edge of the power creep the way some players love to do.

When changes are made which change individual skills' resource costs, resource restorations, or amount of damage done, it might genuinely help to curb the outrageous power creep of high-end vet players, but it can also seriously impact the overall effectiveness of average and below-average players, which can be very frustrating.

I have to agree with players who have been arguing for a different approach to the balancing issues-- namely, establish overall caps on the various types of stats, rather than just changing individual skills, since the problem lies in achieving outrageous totals rather than in the individual skills.

You're right and this is the core of the player base. LIke 85%+ of it, however like it 100% of all MMOs the devs make changes solely based around what Raid / Trial runners and whiney PvPers want destroying the game for the majority of their playerbase.

I guess, after reading the other replies to my comment, I can understand how just putting caps on everything would not really be an ideal solution-- although I disagree that players would just build around the caps, since I did say "on the various types of stats," meaning all of them, so building around the caps would still only be able to go so far since the stats being used to get past the other capped stats would themselves be capped. And as far as that sort of situation simply making a single META more likely, I also disagree in that it would presumably be possible to hit each of the caps in various ways, hence a variety of builds could all be achieving the same end numbers, which could allow for a greater number of diverse builds to be equally "viable" at the same time.

But to respond to your reply, I think ZOS can see exactly what players are doing as far as builds, skill bars, gear sets, rotations, and so forth. It's probably a bit more involved than simply nerfing or buffing things based on what players are complaining about and begging for. ZOS probably analyzes their game data to see what's over-performing, what's under-performing, and tries to come up with solutions based on that. Player complaints might point ZOS to look in certain directions, but that doesn't mean ZOS isn't going to look in other directions as well.

chessalavakia_ESO

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

Yes, but not everyone chases the bleeding edge of the power creep the way some players love to do.

When changes are made which change individual skills' resource costs, resource restorations, or amount of damage done, it might genuinely help to curb the outrageous power creep of high-end vet players, but it can also seriously impact the overall effectiveness of average and below-average players, which can be very frustrating.

I have to agree with players who have been arguing for a different approach to the balancing issues-- namely, establish overall caps on the various types of stats, rather than just changing individual skills, since the problem lies in achieving outrageous totals rather than in the individual skills.

I'd argue the problem with lowering damage is that people like the idea of the content being challenging more than they like the content being challenging in reality much of the time.

If you are into the story, getting challenged is fine but, if you know everything that happens or don't care about it things can get tedious fast if they take too long.

I do try to solo most of the instances that I do so I can experience the story but, I generally will do many of them in groups rather than solo for farming gear because it just gets to be tedious to solo many of them over and over.

If you asked me if I thought Overland was too easy I'd say yes. But, my actions don't really align with that on most of my characters. I'm using highly upgraded gear in the Overland areas and running with a companion.

The truth is for me much of the Overland content is a bit of a slog so I will frequently either burst through it with far more damage and mitigation than the content was designed for or just plain skip it by using Stage 4 Vamp to ignore nearly everything.

I think you could probably cut down on damage at the top without a significant negative impact at the bottom if you really wanted to do it but, you'd ram into the issue that people at the top are generally more vocal which will mean you'll get a negative reaction to the change and you'd likely end up overhauling a huge portion of the games combat in the process to deal with the potential side effects and because if you are annoying people already you might as well rip the band-aid off fully.

Elendir2am

Yea, Power Creep is so high, you can roll through OLDER trial. Lets cut down DPS.
Who care, that new trials were designed for new power and they would get out of reach of many players who can play them now.

francesinhalover

because pvp exists and ruins eso's pve, it's been like this since forever,
you either accept it or become a casual that forgets all endgame pve stuff that's insanely hard or almost impossible to do to the average player and focus on questing.
That's eso and it's always been this way. Pvp will always ruin it.
And endgame pve will always be toxic to the main game.

Holycannoli

I didn't see anything in the patch notes that would affect DPS? Werewolf deafening roar was fixed which is great but nothing related to DPS.

Oh this must be console. Good luck with the leads, you're gonna need it.

vsrs_au

jaws343 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

webgeo99 wrote: »

This is ridiculous, you don't make a game better by causing characters to become weaker!
My DPS characters are doing just HALF the crit damage they did yesterday! This is a stupid way to go. I quit WoW over this exact thing!
And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this!

Actually destroying dps is probably the only way to fix the game. Also remove all the self healing. Tanks and Healers, other than in trials (which is like 3%of the pop) are worthless in like 95% of the dungeons cause you can just kill things so quickly.

You can't remove self healing without ruining solo arenas, or making the game a living nightmare for new players who are in instanced questing areas.

Agreed, plus some of us actually need healing skills/armour/weapons in order to solo the more difficult content, because not all of us like to play in groups.

Everest_Lionheart

Elendir2am wrote: »

Yea, Power Creep is so high, you can roll through OLDER trial. Lets cut down DPS.
Who care, that new trials were designed for new power and they would get out of reach of many players who can play them now.

The issue though is the community is hating older trials based on new DPS numbers so it’s limiting the player pool which can complete it. I’m in several endgame discord groups on Xbox and I see constantly:

LF 110K+ For TTT run
LF 105K+ SOTN prog

And my personal favourite so far…
LF 100K+ DPS VMOL FF

It’s a huge turnoff to me and I hit those numbers on every class. Elitism is what is really holding the game back. The fact that you can literally mash buttons a hit huge dummy numbers is meaningless, but it’s still one of the only measures console has to get into certain trial groups. Only very few things in this game with respect to PvE requires any real measure of skill. Most of it you get through reps and paying attention to mechanics. Sadly though unless you got them big deeps you aren’t getting the reps.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

Yea, Power Creep is so high, you can roll through OLDER trial. Lets cut down DPS.
Who care, that new trials were designed for new power and they would get out of reach of many players who can play them now.

The issue though is the community is hating older trials based on new DPS numbers so it’s limiting the player pool which can complete it. I’m in several endgame discord groups on Xbox and I see constantly:

LF 110K+ For TTT run
LF 105K+ SOTN prog

And my personal favourite so far…
LF 100K+ DPS VMOL FF

It’s a huge turnoff to me and I hit those numbers on every class. Elitism is what is really holding the game back. The fact that you can literally mash buttons a hit huge dummy numbers is meaningless, but it’s still one of the only measures console has to get into certain trial groups. Only very few things in this game with respect to PvE requires any real measure of skill. Most of it you get through reps and paying attention to mechanics. Sadly though unless you got them big deeps you aren’t getting the reps.

I get the outrage at first glance, but I aint doing a TTT or FF prog with you if you cant pull at least 100k. Its not that 100k is technically required to do it, we both know its not, but if you cant do 100k with how high damage is right now, you likely don't have the skill to no death a trial in reasonable amount of prog time (reasonable is of course, subjective). Trial groups can set whatever benchmarks they want. Anyone can start a trial group if they dont like the requirements, and they can set them however they want.

It is so darn easy with all the power creep to hit 100k these days. If you cant, then a serious HM prog (be it a new trial or older trifecta) is likely not for you. If you can but refuse to put in the effort to get a parse, again, I dont see you putting in the effort to contribute meaningfully to a group. People dont want to spend 3 months prog'ing a title from a 5 year old trial, and I certainly don't blame them. I originally cleared VMOL HM with about 25k per DPS. We were one of the first to do it. The prog took the better part of the year. You couldn't pay me to prog that trial with even triple that DPS right now, because a player that pulls 75k with todays damage is not nearly as skilled as a player pulling 25k 5 years ago.

Elitism is certainly an issue in the end game community, of that I will not argue with you, but so is Entitlement, i.e., expecting groups to carry you along for the ride.

(also, I clearly don't mean you specifically, I mean the proverbial you, lol)

To the OP: Damage is absurdly high right now. Check your mundus and CP, if you really fell by 50%, my guess is it is an easy fix.

kringled_1

Huh? FF is laughable putting a dps requirement on it,which is probably why everest called it out. Very high dps just shortens the time before the group will have to stop dps on Rakkhat completely and just stand around and kill hulks when up.

drsalvation

jaws343 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'd like our DPS nerfed by half actually. Power creep in ESO is insane.

Yes, but not everyone chases the bleeding edge of the power creep the way some players love to do.

When changes are made which change individual skills' resource costs, resource restorations, or amount of damage done, it might genuinely help to curb the outrageous power creep of high-end vet players, but it can also seriously impact the overall effectiveness of average and below-average players, which can be very frustrating.

I have to agree with players who have been arguing for a different approach to the balancing issues-- namely, establish overall caps on the various types of stats, rather than just changing individual skills, since the problem lies in achieving outrageous totals rather than in the individual skills.

Caps just cause even more power creep, as players who effectively hit those caps build into other aspects of their builds and get the same damage, or even worse, more tankiness in PVP areas. And since everyone is competing with the same cap, it extremely stifles build diversity. You think there is meta now, just wait until you are only filling specific buckets to cap.

And power creep is game wide, not just for those at the top. I was just in a group over the weekend that 6 manned normal asylum in around 15 minutes, none of us were optimized, a few had never done the roles that they were in in the trial. I remember when Asylum launched and whole 12 man groups would wipe on normal.

But look at it this way, with caps and being able to add to other aspects of builds, you could simplify combat to DPS+Heal, or DPS+Tank.
Support roles in this game are pretty much useless, one-shot mechanics deprecate the need to min/max tanks, so why not just design the whole game around DPS and either make your DPS lean to a healer, or to a tank?

dmnqwk

I think the CP nerfs are a bit funny in that they don't seem to have done much to my Warden.
I parsed just over 100k before the patch and since high isle, it's the same!

And as for the 'elitism' comments it's nothing new for the 30 years people have been talking online about raids in video games. Progression is about working hard and helping out the people you're with - or it used to be. These days there's always someone to take their place, so it's about belittling and ridiculing people with toxic behaviour because you're not good enough to teach (or they're impatient and toxic and unwilling to put effort in)

ESO is made for DPS characters, which is neither good nor bad. Some games require tanks and healers to chip in damage to meet requirements, while others have a bunch of mechanics for the tanks/healers to perform while the dps stand there mindlessly pew pewing. Tanks/healers as buffbots is what ESO likes and if that's something you don't think is good, plenty of other MMOs out there that do things differently.