Twitch drop event backfires on ZoS - will never buy a crate again

Ratzkifal

dmnqwk wrote: »

I think i'd prefer them not to try and encourage us watching streams we have no interest in.

Add the free gems as days 29-31 each month for the login rewards since it's better engagement having players log in every day than fake watch a stream. (I got a nice Senche from the last crate, however I'd be perfectly content not having to leave my phone on for 8 hours pretending to watch a stream I don't have any inclination to watch instead).

This particular instance was quite bad, yes. Usually you don't have to watch nearly as long and you can watch any of the streams that have the drops enabled so you might find someone you like. After all, it is a promotion for ESO's online presence by boosting the twitch view counts through drops and I have found a number of streamers I actually ended up enjoying because drops got me to open their streams in the first place.

Congratz on your mount! The next time when you get that mount as a dublicate you'll get 132 gems instead.

JanTanhide

Agree. I never buy Crates. Ever. Keep your money and if you spend it on anything ESO related I suggest ESO Plus. It's worth it. Crates are not in my opinion.

HelixUnited

Working as intended,
drops are great I won at Snap from today's free ones

spartaxoxo

HelixUnited wrote: »

Working as intended,
drops are great I won at Snap from today's free ones

As far as the junk rewards go, that's one is pretty good. It's an item that has a good use in game and that's unique in how it functions. And if you do just want the gems you can save them up over time.

Jamie_Aubrey

Someone is new to the Twicth crates, you only get a selection of 5 items or saw and a small chance at a pet/mount

Ipsius

I bought nothing and was DISAPPOINTED!!!
I will CONTINUE to buy nothing!

Plan BACKFIRED!

I'm still holding out hope you're not being serious.

As has been explained, the free crates are understood to be worth only a few gems, which you otherwise can only get from paid crates. So free currency.

There are only 2 exclusive items in the free crates: 1 mount and 1 pet. They are completely different from paid crown crates.

Aardappelboom

Well, handing out free crates to give a taste of "gambling joy" in the hopes people will spend money is pretty questionable tbh. That the rewards are lackluster is even more questionable, for some people getting nothing feeds the need to buy one more than getting something, which is just a very low thing to do as a business.

These things are regulated in Belgium, it's just not allowed. Sad to see it's still active in the US and other countries.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Well, handing out free crates to give a taste of "gambling joy" in the hopes people will spend money is pretty questionable tbh. That the rewards are lackluster is even more questionable, for some people getting nothing feeds the need to buy one more than getting something, which is just a very low thing to do as a business.

These things are regulated in Belgium, it's just not allowed. Sad to see it's still active in the US and other countries.

Agree. I've pulled mates back from the brink of poker machine addictions - gambling is far more prevalent and destructive than any substance abuse issues I've ever seen. (not discounting the massive impact of substance abuse across the world - in before the trolls)

Unless there are a few dozen idiotic whales keeping the current system afloat (not that unrealistic, unfortunately), the ZoS revenue stream team need to solidly rethink their career. The actual player base would spend infinitely more if they could just buy what they wanted directly.



As to the rest of you "don't you realise these are free crates" ...umm yeh I do...they are still crates though, hey. If I got some sick gear I'd have already restocked and spent my crowns, and I refuse to believe I am alone in that.

Ipsius

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Well, handing out free crates to give a taste of "gambling joy" in the hopes people will spend money is pretty questionable tbh. That the rewards are lackluster is even more questionable, for some people getting nothing feeds the need to buy one more than getting something, which is just a very low thing to do as a business.

These things are regulated in Belgium, it's just not allowed. Sad to see it's still active in the US and other countries.

Agree. I've pulled mates back from the brink of poker machine addictions - gambling is far more prevalent and destructive than any substance abuse issues I've ever seen. (not discounting the massive impact of substance abuse across the world - in before the trolls)

Unless there are a few dozen idiotic whales keeping the current system afloat (not that unrealistic, unfortunately), the ZoS revenue stream team need to solidly rethink their career. The actual player base would spend infinitely more if they could just buy what they wanted directly.



As to the rest of you "don't you realise these are free crates" ...umm yeh I do...they are still crates though, hey. If I got some sick gear I'd have already restocked and spent my crowns, and I refuse to believe I am alone in that.

Do you honestly think, if these points were true and they'd make more sales doing it your way, they would choose to do it the way it currently is?

The fact is, they maximize revenue with the current model. It's been tested and proven since the birth of micro transactions. If you think you know more than multi-million dollar corporations, Microsoft, and hundreds of people with business and economics degrees... Why do you think that?

Firey_Hellhound

Ok let me flip this on it's head a moment, and lets assume you got a Free 'Ouroboros' crate or more accurately it's equivalent which had skewed drop rates of stuff that was in the current regular Crown Crates.

For example: The OP was suggesting, I think, that we had reduced rates for Common and Fine drops and increased drop chances of Superior and Epic Rewards etc. I assume to balance this maybe had a barely above zero chance of an Apex Radiant or Radiant drop with Legendary maybe similar to normal rates.

I can foresee the outcry that would rage if this were the case as it would be called out as false advertising and misleading to encourage you to part with real cash to buy crates that had 'normal' drop rates. And then the whining would be real!

So it's a hard no. A free real ouroboros crate contains stuff designed to be turned in to gems, it's free stuff so why complain?

dmnqwk

Perhaps the biggest concern is that they give out 'crates'.

Regardless of how or why, perhaps they simply need to re-brand them as 'Crown Satchels'.

It'd be fairly simple for them to consider having 3 cards drop in a satchel, which offer the following:

1st card is always a number of Crown Gems. Mostly 5, but sometimes 10 (maybe even a special 25 one)
2nd card offers one of the following: 50 tri-stat pots, 10 crown meals, 5 crown repair kits or the Pet/Mount.
3rd card offers crafting materials - Heartwood, Mundane Runes etc (25/50) and sometimes the latest special item (aka 5 stendarr stamps)

That would incentivize people to consider Crates because right now, the crate rewards suggest crates themselves SUCK. I don't need people going 'oh but they do' because there are people who also say 'Tesla sucks' or 'Coke sucks'. But the current drop crates are just such a poor reflection, I do believe they scare people away from trying crates (and I believe the chivalry crates are looking good from the preview) which is not good. Anything which stops ZOS getting monies makes the rest of the game worse.

If people haven't worked that out, they should personally stop every whale from buying things so the game can collapse.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip

Ipsius wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Well, handing out free crates to give a taste of "gambling joy" in the hopes people will spend money is pretty questionable tbh. That the rewards are lackluster is even more questionable, for some people getting nothing feeds the need to buy one more than getting something, which is just a very low thing to do as a business.

These things are regulated in Belgium, it's just not allowed. Sad to see it's still active in the US and other countries.

Agree. I've pulled mates back from the brink of poker machine addictions - gambling is far more prevalent and destructive than any substance abuse issues I've ever seen. (not discounting the massive impact of substance abuse across the world - in before the trolls)

Unless there are a few dozen idiotic whales keeping the current system afloat (not that unrealistic, unfortunately), the ZoS revenue stream team need to solidly rethink their career. The actual player base would spend infinitely more if they could just buy what they wanted directly.



As to the rest of you "don't you realise these are free crates" ...umm yeh I do...they are still crates though, hey. If I got some sick gear I'd have already restocked and spent my crowns, and I refuse to believe I am alone in that.

Do you honestly think, if these points were true and they'd make more sales doing it your way, they would choose to do it the way it currently is?

The fact is, they maximize revenue with the current model. It's been tested and proven since the birth of micro transactions. If you think you know more than multi-million dollar corporations, Microsoft, and hundreds of people with business and economics degrees... Why do you think that?

I don't doubt they make money doing what they are doing. Like you say, they;d clearly change it otherwise.

My point is that very simplistic, short term thinking alienates their player base, loses potential customers, and makes them look toxic and greedy as heck.

Have they tested a direct purchase model? Not in my time. The income might be good, but who knows if it could be better? Moreover, imagine being a company that people got behind instead of always ragging on because they just wanted to juice us?

EdmondDontes

The free Orobos crates from twitch drops don't justify the time it takes to log into twitch.

But drop rates for anything decent are so low in the official crown crates that purchases for those can't be justified either. Not at the prices ZOS charges for them, not even close to justifiable. ZOS is unbelievably stingy with their drops on almost everything.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip

dmnqwk wrote: »

Perhaps the biggest concern is that they give out 'crates'.

Regardless of how or why, perhaps they simply need to re-brand them as 'Crown Satchels'.

It'd be fairly simple for them to consider having 3 cards drop in a satchel, which offer the following:

1st card is always a number of Crown Gems. Mostly 5, but sometimes 10 (maybe even a special 25 one)
2nd card offers one of the following: 50 tri-stat pots, 10 crown meals, 5 crown repair kits or the Pet/Mount.
3rd card offers crafting materials - Heartwood, Mundane Runes etc (25/50) and sometimes the latest special item (aka 5 stendarr stamps)

Solid idea. I like that.

I still think they have a missed marketing opportunity here - even if they just did an equal drop rate....for those saying that there would be an outcry...there already is....yes some people get an amazing mount off their dailies but plenty more just get rubbish after dropping $150 or so.

I'd rather they actually fixed the marketplace, but if they won't, why not be 100% shark tank?

To the tesla example or the coke example in the other post...imagine if you dropped $50k coz you might get a model S..you might get a basic model 3...you might get an Elon Musk polymorph....or you might get a can of coke...the market wouldn't take it...but we do, apparently?

[snip]
[edited for bashing & baiting]

DagenHawk

The moment they stop doing it someone will say that ZoS never offers anything...
The moment they change it to something else someone will wonder why they took their magical crates away...

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Kiralyn2000

I go to a Magic The Gathering or Pokemon event, and as part of entering the event they give out a "promo pack" of three Common cards.

I then go online to yell about how their plan has backfired, and I'll never buy actual card packs (that contain better cards).

[snip]
[edited for minor baiting]

Amottica

OP. Look again as those are not frown crates. They have a different name and are well known to not include high level drops.

They are a good source of gems.

MrGhosty

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Hahah literally every response here proves my point.

[snip] if these crates are 'not real crown crates'. They are 100% showing prospective crown crate purchasers a negative view of their chances.

[snip] they would know that these Ourobrois crates should drop BETTER rewards than a basic crown crate.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

I am personally glad they don't slant the twitch crates to "big up" crown crates, that would be shady as all get out and is tiptoeing into mobile game territory. Crown crates are just a really good way to delete crowns from your account, anything else from them is a bonus. Lootboxes are awful and I wish they would just have a normal store but at this point it's pretty clear they're not going to change tact anytime soon. Seeing as that is the case, i'm glad they don't put lipstick on the twitch crate pig.

Redguards_Revenge

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

If you genii wanted to sell more crowns/crown crates, you'd have [snip] weighted the free twitch drops to give some decent rewards. Why would I spend, what...$10...$20 AUD on a crate that gives me this?



The last free crates were the same. The crates I bought have rarely been better. I get RNGs and stuff, but [snip] you'd think they would learn to actually [snip] make the free drops look awesome?

[edited for bashing]

Twitch Promo Crates are crates that help round out your gem collection to the nearest whatever it is... They are not real crates OROBOROS crate = PURPLE GEM ROUNDING CRATES

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I won't buy Crown Crates and I don't see the Ouroboros crates as a sales gimmick for them. I've always considered the Ouroboros crates as being a cheap bribe to get folks watch the Twitch stream and boost the viewer numbers. Again they are an item that has no effect on my disinterest in watching some fluff piece on Twitch.

Ipsius

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Well, handing out free crates to give a taste of "gambling joy" in the hopes people will spend money is pretty questionable tbh. That the rewards are lackluster is even more questionable, for some people getting nothing feeds the need to buy one more than getting something, which is just a very low thing to do as a business.

These things are regulated in Belgium, it's just not allowed. Sad to see it's still active in the US and other countries.

Agree. I've pulled mates back from the brink of poker machine addictions - gambling is far more prevalent and destructive than any substance abuse issues I've ever seen. (not discounting the massive impact of substance abuse across the world - in before the trolls)

Unless there are a few dozen idiotic whales keeping the current system afloat (not that unrealistic, unfortunately), the ZoS revenue stream team need to solidly rethink their career. The actual player base would spend infinitely more if they could just buy what they wanted directly.



As to the rest of you "don't you realise these are free crates" ...umm yeh I do...they are still crates though, hey. If I got some sick gear I'd have already restocked and spent my crowns, and I refuse to believe I am alone in that.

Do you honestly think, if these points were true and they'd make more sales doing it your way, they would choose to do it the way it currently is?

The fact is, they maximize revenue with the current model. It's been tested and proven since the birth of micro transactions. If you think you know more than multi-million dollar corporations, Microsoft, and hundreds of people with business and economics degrees... Why do you think that?

I don't doubt they make money doing what they are doing. Like you say, they;d clearly change it otherwise.

My point is that very simplistic, short term thinking alienates their player base, loses potential customers, and makes them look toxic and greedy as heck.

Have they tested a direct purchase model? Not in my time. The income might be good, but who knows if it could be better? Moreover, imagine being a company that people got behind instead of always ragging on because they just wanted to juice us?

I agree! It is short term thinking and they, and all business (and humanity), would be better off if long term goals, pleasing customers, building loyalty, and not being greedy were fundamental principles of business.

I would much prefer a world like that.

In the eyes of businesses, where profits are ALL that matters, you can always plan ahead... But if your short term profits are perpetually maximized, then your long term profits are logically maximized too.

I don't agree with the logic, and the choices made serving this logic barely serves consumers and only by accident, and frequently is exploitative. But that's how business has been done since some greedy person realized they could squeeze just a little more profit... Then a little more... And so on.

It's upsetting and lame, but blaming a single company for adhering to principles that have governed for-profit businesses since time immemorial isn't exactly fair, and not very useful, as fundamental change would be required to effect how things are done.

rootkitronin

Ipsius wrote: »

if your short term profits are perpetually maximized, then your long term profits are logically maximized too.

I understand where you're coming from here - but that's just not true, and saying so is oversimplifying a very complicated concept.

Ipsius wrote: »

But that's how business has been done since some greedy person realized they could squeeze just a little more profit... Then a little more... And so on.

No, it hasn't. There are plenty of business out there that are ethical and don't rely on exploitation or predatory marketing. To say that's just always how it's been done is not only incorrect, but it serves as an excuse to normalize poor business behavior and practices.

Ipsius wrote: »

It's upsetting and lame, but blaming a single company for adhering to principles that have governed for-profit businesses since time immemorial isn't exactly fair, and not very useful, as fundamental change would be required to effect how things are done.

It is absolutely fair - ZOS is the company, these are their forums, this is their product, we are their customers. They are the only company that is remotely relevant in the context of these conversations and criticisms.

You're propping up an inaccurate example of how businesses work and comparing ZOS to them, essentially saying it's not their fault because of example - that's not useful.

FlopsyPrince

rpa wrote: »

I admit I don't crates at all but isn't that perfectly normal result from a free twitch crate? People who bother with twitch crates do it because gems unless I'm mistaken.

Normal, but not enticing, which I assume part of the purpose is.

Some here are forgetting that they not only want you to watch the livestream, they want you to buy crates in the future.

I did get a cool mount on both PS4 NA and PS4 EU several years ago from a free (monthly I recall) crate, but I have gotten very little from either free or purchased ones since.

(Yeah, I was foolish and bought a few, but I have not even gotten one mount per set of 15.)

zaria

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The Twitch crates are just meant to give you gems. I save them up and buy what I want from crates instead of gambling on them.

This and they are very valuable because the crown gems get more expensive as they get higher in tires. Seals on the other hand get relatively cheaper as you move up.
This is by design so you want to want to buy crated to save the seals for the expensive stuff rater than using 1000 on an 16 gem item. For this one its an buff as Khajit is mostly after the low to mid tire cosmetic

This one is just here to farm

Ipsius

rootkitronin wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

if your short term profits are perpetually maximized, then your long term profits are logically maximized too.

I understand where you're coming from here - but that's just not true, and saying so is oversimplifying a very complicated concept.

Ipsius wrote: »

But that's how business has been done since some greedy person realized they could squeeze just a little more profit... Then a little more... And so on.

No, it hasn't. There are plenty of business out there that are ethical and don't rely on exploitation or predatory marketing. To say that's just always how it's been done is not only incorrect, but it serves as an excuse to normalize poor business behavior and practices.

Ipsius wrote: »

It's upsetting and lame, but blaming a single company for adhering to principles that have governed for-profit businesses since time immemorial isn't exactly fair, and not very useful, as fundamental change would be required to effect how things are done.

It is absolutely fair - ZOS is the company, these are their forums, this is their product, we are their customers. They are the only company that is remotely relevant in the context of these conversations and criticisms.

You're propping up an inaccurate example of how businesses work and comparing ZOS to them, essentially saying it's not their fault because of example - that's not useful.

It's literally what's happening. How is it inaccurate?

There are exceptions of course, small ethically-run businesses and such. It is indeed a simplification of a vastly complicated subject.

You can criticize and righteously judge and complain, but you are, to borrow a phrase, "raging against the machine." Unless they are forced (ie their model becomes unprofitable due to widespread outrage), things will not change.

Given the robustness of crate sales and the relatively few complaints, this seems unlikely.

I'm not saying it's not worth complaining, or that it's not right to point out the problems, simply that it's not worth getting steamed over some very predictable practices resulting from our horrible economic system.

rootkitronin

Ipsius wrote: »

How is it inaccurate?

Not every business is a greedy and unethical - I'd go so far as to say that most aren't, and I'm not just talking about small businesses either. Don't get me wrong, I understand the cynical view of lumping all of them together, but that doesn't make it accurate.

Ipsius wrote: »

Given the robustness of crate sales and the relatively few complaints, this seems unlikely.

Unless you have access to information that the majority of us don't, then how do you know how many complaints they get, or how robust their crate sales are? Or anything with regards to their business model, profits, trends, etc.? These are just assumptions and conjecture, we just don't have those details.

Ipsius wrote: »

I'm not saying it's not worth complaining, or that it's not right to point out the problems, simply that it's not worth getting steamed over some very predictable practices resulting from our horrible economic system.

Couldn't agree more. ZOS won't change on their own, the culture surrounding them needs to change first - and that's not going to happen quickly or anytime soon, those changes take time.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to pretend they are a good company, nor am I going to normalize bad business behavior either, regardless of how predictable or common it may be.

KalevaLaine

I really don't know how the RNG is working there. My wife and me are spending some money from time to time in crates.

An example were the frost crates - we bought 45 crates each. I got only trash, some double costumes... She got 6 (!) ice mounts ot of her 45 crates. So this is ridicilous!

But at least, sure, the twitch crates are always trash, but a guildmate dropped out the mount some weeks ago.

Amottica

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

Well, handing out free crates to give a taste of "gambling joy" in the hopes people will spend money is pretty questionable tbh. That the rewards are lackluster is even more questionable, for some people getting nothing feeds the need to buy one more than getting something, which is just a very low thing to do as a business.

These things are regulated in Belgium, it's just not allowed. Sad to see it's still active in the US and other countries.

Agree. I've pulled mates back from the brink of poker machine addictions - gambling is far more prevalent and destructive than any substance abuse issues I've ever seen. (not discounting the massive impact of substance abuse across the world - in before the trolls)

Unless there are a few dozen idiotic whales keeping the current system afloat (not that unrealistic, unfortunately), the ZoS revenue stream team need to solidly rethink their career. The actual player base would spend infinitely more if they could just buy what they wanted directly.



As to the rest of you "don't you realise these are free crates" ...umm yeh I do...they are still crates though, hey. If I got some sick gear I'd have already restocked and spent my crowns, and I refuse to believe I am alone in that.

Do you honestly think, if these points were true and they'd make more sales doing it your way, they would choose to do it the way it currently is?

The fact is, they maximize revenue with the current model. It's been tested and proven since the birth of micro transactions. If you think you know more than multi-million dollar corporations, Microsoft, and hundreds of people with business and economics degrees... Why do you think that?

I don't doubt they make money doing what they are doing. Like you say, they;d clearly change it otherwise.

My point is that very simplistic, short term thinking alienates their player base, loses potential customers, and makes them look toxic and greedy as heck.

Have they tested a direct purchase model? Not in my time. The income might be good, but who knows if it could be better? Moreover, imagine being a company that people got behind instead of always ragging on because they just wanted to juice us?

As a newer player, having been around just over a year, I never mistook these free twitch crates for the crown crates. It is pretty obvious since they have a different names.

They serve their purpose appropriately and I still have yet to see many complaints on the matter.

Even then, if someone is never going to buy a crown crate again it stands to reason they have purchased them before making it even more likely they should be aware of drops from the crown crates and should quickly become aware of the difference. As such the twitch crates should not backfire as suggested. At least that would be the case with most people and that is coming from someone new and that has only opened free crown crates.

Eliahnus

I hope you feel a bit ridiculous now; next time better inform yourself before posting such a statement.

BloodMagicLord