ZOS, consider this to get empty campaigns back to a healthy population level

Didgerion

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Cyrodiil campaign changes:

Close down Blackreach campaign (Its dead empty outside of primetimes with only emp title grinders, AP farmers and trolls being left. More and more guilds make the move over to GH every month)

Close down No CP No Proc campaign (Its even more empty outside of primetimes and doesn't even feel alive during primtimes. I'd call the No Proc campaign to be the least interesting campaign of them all since the No Proc restriction took place)

Close down under level 50 campaign (most players even at low level rather join GH anyways)

Open up another Campaign. No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.



Imperial City campaign changes:

Close down No CP No Proc AND the CP Imperial City campaigns (Imperial City is mainly used to farm leads nowadays. And even that dried out a lot with new better mythics releasing with every expansion)

Go for a rework instead: The idea of Imperial City for a PvPvE experience was good in its core, but not well thought through. There is no real reason to hop in there outside of Midyear Mayhem event. If players don't get a regular incentive to do so, they simply won't.

By shifting the current Imperial City system into the one and only well-established and fun PvPvE experience known on the video game market - so successful that it even settled in Esports - should help with achieving this goal. And that is the good old Moba games. Add a moba style combat system to each of the districts making them feel alive through constant NPC respawns attacking the other side of the district and the players. Instead of a 3 faction war, make it a 2 faction fight at a time in the districts. Lower the district count if nessessary. Add the option to seperately queue for the districts if you prefer it that way. Adjust the rulesets for the single district areas for allowing more options to choose from (like a CP district, a NO CP district, a NO CP + NO Proc district). This is nothing overcomplicated or niche like the card game. This is simple, straightforward, and fun if done right while also seperating from the mass of moba games. Literally every kid out there knows how a moba works. And for those who don't know, make one of the district become the tutorial. On top of this, add every single PvP item available in Cyrodiil to the vendors in Imperial City and adjust the Telvar gain accordingly.

You will get a true small scale and small map size PvPvE environment that way without the need of having to invent something completely new. Give your PvP players some content before you are going for the promised ones that we are waiting for so long. While making your campaigns feel refreshing, interesting and rewarding again.

All those changes won't fix Cyrodiil.
Yes No CP/No Proc campaign might seem boring for some, but it is liked by others. Why take it away from the minority?
I play No CP campaign and i enjoy it. There is less burst, I have time to react and counter things (it was quite fun pre Oakensoul).

An look there are 2 CP campaigns one of which is empty! so the problem is clearly not the No-CP campaign but the core laws that drive Cyrodiil. I'll list few that needs to be fixed imo:

1. No penalty for big groups - big groups are way too efficient on the cyrodiil map, one big group can face-roll all the map without any challenges and drawbacks, this problem is really noticeable on less populated servers.
2. The impact of solo players on the map is negligible - right now the only thing that a solo player can do is to flip resources and towns at a reduced speed.
3. The dominating faction gets to have the extra buffs which is quickly disbalancing the Cyrodiil even further.

Imperial City is even easier to fix, just add a reward cycle similar to Cyrodiil and remove the telvar thievery, because it is very cruel as it is now, one player is having the fun on the pain of the others, it is just an unhealthy fun ratio.

to go along with that point, you say that removing the no cp/no proc would be against the minority

well i personally think that the tel var adds a fun risk/reward to imperial city, and it would be kind of boring if there was no risk, everyone would constantly be running around with 10k tel var for the 4x multiplier

if they removed the death penalty they would also remove the multiplier making it even harder to earn

so no, i would not want imperial city to be "fixed" like that

i would rather they remove the respawn limitations from the surface, you should not be restricted to respawning on the surface if your faction does not control the district, that just utterly kills any fun up there

There are plenty of ways to balance 4x telvars bonus, just use your imagination.
For example 4x telvar buffs could be balanced by a damage and resistance debuff. If you carry more stones you will become an easy target for enemy players and world bosses.

Or they could replace 50% loss with a flat amount per telvar tier. For example for killing an 1x-er = 25, 2x = 100, 3x= 250, 4x=1000 telvars and for killing a 4x-er with a telvar set you get 2000 telvars.

They need to make it less painful for the loosing party if they want to keep the zone alive, it is basically a pyramid. If the base of the pyramid is not happy the pyramid will crash.

Necrotech_Master

Didgerion wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Cyrodiil campaign changes:

Close down Blackreach campaign (Its dead empty outside of primetimes with only emp title grinders, AP farmers and trolls being left. More and more guilds make the move over to GH every month)

Close down No CP No Proc campaign (Its even more empty outside of primetimes and doesn't even feel alive during primtimes. I'd call the No Proc campaign to be the least interesting campaign of them all since the No Proc restriction took place)

Close down under level 50 campaign (most players even at low level rather join GH anyways)

Open up another Campaign. No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.



Imperial City campaign changes:

Close down No CP No Proc AND the CP Imperial City campaigns (Imperial City is mainly used to farm leads nowadays. And even that dried out a lot with new better mythics releasing with every expansion)

Go for a rework instead: The idea of Imperial City for a PvPvE experience was good in its core, but not well thought through. There is no real reason to hop in there outside of Midyear Mayhem event. If players don't get a regular incentive to do so, they simply won't.

By shifting the current Imperial City system into the one and only well-established and fun PvPvE experience known on the video game market - so successful that it even settled in Esports - should help with achieving this goal. And that is the good old Moba games. Add a moba style combat system to each of the districts making them feel alive through constant NPC respawns attacking the other side of the district and the players. Instead of a 3 faction war, make it a 2 faction fight at a time in the districts. Lower the district count if nessessary. Add the option to seperately queue for the districts if you prefer it that way. Adjust the rulesets for the single district areas for allowing more options to choose from (like a CP district, a NO CP district, a NO CP + NO Proc district). This is nothing overcomplicated or niche like the card game. This is simple, straightforward, and fun if done right while also seperating from the mass of moba games. Literally every kid out there knows how a moba works. And for those who don't know, make one of the district become the tutorial. On top of this, add every single PvP item available in Cyrodiil to the vendors in Imperial City and adjust the Telvar gain accordingly.

You will get a true small scale and small map size PvPvE environment that way without the need of having to invent something completely new. Give your PvP players some content before you are going for the promised ones that we are waiting for so long. While making your campaigns feel refreshing, interesting and rewarding again.

All those changes won't fix Cyrodiil.
Yes No CP/No Proc campaign might seem boring for some, but it is liked by others. Why take it away from the minority?
I play No CP campaign and i enjoy it. There is less burst, I have time to react and counter things (it was quite fun pre Oakensoul).

An look there are 2 CP campaigns one of which is empty! so the problem is clearly not the No-CP campaign but the core laws that drive Cyrodiil. I'll list few that needs to be fixed imo:

1. No penalty for big groups - big groups are way too efficient on the cyrodiil map, one big group can face-roll all the map without any challenges and drawbacks, this problem is really noticeable on less populated servers.
2. The impact of solo players on the map is negligible - right now the only thing that a solo player can do is to flip resources and towns at a reduced speed.
3. The dominating faction gets to have the extra buffs which is quickly disbalancing the Cyrodiil even further.

Imperial City is even easier to fix, just add a reward cycle similar to Cyrodiil and remove the telvar thievery, because it is very cruel as it is now, one player is having the fun on the pain of the others, it is just an unhealthy fun ratio.

to go along with that point, you say that removing the no cp/no proc would be against the minority

well i personally think that the tel var adds a fun risk/reward to imperial city, and it would be kind of boring if there was no risk, everyone would constantly be running around with 10k tel var for the 4x multiplier

if they removed the death penalty they would also remove the multiplier making it even harder to earn

so no, i would not want imperial city to be "fixed" like that

i would rather they remove the respawn limitations from the surface, you should not be restricted to respawning on the surface if your faction does not control the district, that just utterly kills any fun up there

There are plenty of ways to balance 4x telvars bonus, just use your imagination.
For example 4x telvar buffs could be balanced by a damage and resistance debuff. If you carry more stones you will become an easy target for enemy players and world bosses.

Or they could replace 50% loss with a flat amount per telvar tier. For example for killing an 1x-er = 25, 2x = 100, 3x= 250, 4x=1000 telvars and for killing a 4x-er with a telvar set you get 2000 telvars.

They need to make it less painful for the loosing party if they want to keep the zone alive, it is basically a pyramid. If the base of the pyramid is not happy the pyramid will crash.

im not a big pvper, i die to gankers all the time, and i dont think there is a problem with tel var as it is now

what i do have a problem with is when im running around on the surface, die, and then i am forced to respawn in the sewers (so i have to go through 2 load screens to get back to what i was doing)

way back when IC first released, there was a death penalty of only 20% tel var loss if you died to an NPC compared to 50% loss to a player, so if you were on the losing end of a fight as long as the npc got killing blow you would lose less lol

Didgerion

Didgerion wrote: »

Or they could replace 50% loss with a flat amount per telvar tier. For example for killing an 1x-er = 25, 2x = 100, 3x= 250, 4x=1000 telvars and for killing a 4x-er with a telvar set you get 2000 telvars.

They need to make it less painful for the loosing party if they want to keep the zone alive, it is basically a pyramid. If the base of the pyramid is not happy the pyramid will crash.

They could also add a modifier for the killing party. For example if you have 1x your loot is cut by 75% when you kill someone; 2x-50%; 3x-25%; 4x- you get full loot(aka high risk high reward)

So if you are 4x and kill a 4x you get 1000 telvars
And if you are 1x and kill a 4x you only get 250 telvars.

FrancisCrawford

No, no, no. Please leave Blackreach as a place for non-PvPers to dip into Cyrodiil when needed.

Didgerion

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Cyrodiil campaign changes:

Close down Blackreach campaign (Its dead empty outside of primetimes with only emp title grinders, AP farmers and trolls being left. More and more guilds make the move over to GH every month)

Close down No CP No Proc campaign (Its even more empty outside of primetimes and doesn't even feel alive during primtimes. I'd call the No Proc campaign to be the least interesting campaign of them all since the No Proc restriction took place)

Close down under level 50 campaign (most players even at low level rather join GH anyways)

Open up another Campaign. No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.



Imperial City campaign changes:

Close down No CP No Proc AND the CP Imperial City campaigns (Imperial City is mainly used to farm leads nowadays. And even that dried out a lot with new better mythics releasing with every expansion)

Go for a rework instead: The idea of Imperial City for a PvPvE experience was good in its core, but not well thought through. There is no real reason to hop in there outside of Midyear Mayhem event. If players don't get a regular incentive to do so, they simply won't.

By shifting the current Imperial City system into the one and only well-established and fun PvPvE experience known on the video game market - so successful that it even settled in Esports - should help with achieving this goal. And that is the good old Moba games. Add a moba style combat system to each of the districts making them feel alive through constant NPC respawns attacking the other side of the district and the players. Instead of a 3 faction war, make it a 2 faction fight at a time in the districts. Lower the district count if nessessary. Add the option to seperately queue for the districts if you prefer it that way. Adjust the rulesets for the single district areas for allowing more options to choose from (like a CP district, a NO CP district, a NO CP + NO Proc district). This is nothing overcomplicated or niche like the card game. This is simple, straightforward, and fun if done right while also seperating from the mass of moba games. Literally every kid out there knows how a moba works. And for those who don't know, make one of the district become the tutorial. On top of this, add every single PvP item available in Cyrodiil to the vendors in Imperial City and adjust the Telvar gain accordingly.

You will get a true small scale and small map size PvPvE environment that way without the need of having to invent something completely new. Give your PvP players some content before you are going for the promised ones that we are waiting for so long. While making your campaigns feel refreshing, interesting and rewarding again.

All those changes won't fix Cyrodiil.
Yes No CP/No Proc campaign might seem boring for some, but it is liked by others. Why take it away from the minority?
I play No CP campaign and i enjoy it. There is less burst, I have time to react and counter things (it was quite fun pre Oakensoul).

An look there are 2 CP campaigns one of which is empty! so the problem is clearly not the No-CP campaign but the core laws that drive Cyrodiil. I'll list few that needs to be fixed imo:

1. No penalty for big groups - big groups are way too efficient on the cyrodiil map, one big group can face-roll all the map without any challenges and drawbacks, this problem is really noticeable on less populated servers.
2. The impact of solo players on the map is negligible - right now the only thing that a solo player can do is to flip resources and towns at a reduced speed.
3. The dominating faction gets to have the extra buffs which is quickly disbalancing the Cyrodiil even further.

Imperial City is even easier to fix, just add a reward cycle similar to Cyrodiil and remove the telvar thievery, because it is very cruel as it is now, one player is having the fun on the pain of the others, it is just an unhealthy fun ratio.

to go along with that point, you say that removing the no cp/no proc would be against the minority

well i personally think that the tel var adds a fun risk/reward to imperial city, and it would be kind of boring if there was no risk, everyone would constantly be running around with 10k tel var for the 4x multiplier

if they removed the death penalty they would also remove the multiplier making it even harder to earn

so no, i would not want imperial city to be "fixed" like that

i would rather they remove the respawn limitations from the surface, you should not be restricted to respawning on the surface if your faction does not control the district, that just utterly kills any fun up there

There are plenty of ways to balance 4x telvars bonus, just use your imagination.
For example 4x telvar buffs could be balanced by a damage and resistance debuff. If you carry more stones you will become an easy target for enemy players and world bosses.

Or they could replace 50% loss with a flat amount per telvar tier. For example for killing an 1x-er = 25, 2x = 100, 3x= 250, 4x=1000 telvars and for killing a 4x-er with a telvar set you get 2000 telvars.

They need to make it less painful for the loosing party if they want to keep the zone alive, it is basically a pyramid. If the base of the pyramid is not happy the pyramid will crash.

im not a big pvper, i die to gankers all the time, and i dont think there is a problem with tel var as it is now

what i do have a problem with is when im running around on the surface, die, and then i am forced to respawn in the sewers (so i have to go through 2 load screens to get back to what i was doing)

way back when IC first released, there was a death penalty of only 20% tel var loss if you died to an NPC compared to 50% loss to a player, so if you were on the losing end of a fight as long as the npc got killing blow you would lose less lol

Yes I remember players running into NPCs to avoid being killed by other players. That was the first clue that telvar thievery was working against a healthy pvp. I think it was 10% loss to NPC and 90% loss to a player that later was set to 50% across the board.
Also players showed that they would not mind loosing 10% of telvar stones, how the developers came up with the 50% ratio is a mystery to me.

Didgerion

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

No, no, no. Please leave Blackreach as a place for non-PvPers to dip into Cyrodiil when needed.

That's not PvP. If a non PvP-ers wants to dip into Cyrodiil they should ask in the alliance chat for help. Then a top tier PvP player would be glad to team up and show things around and kill some enemies along the way, PvP-er would be glad to show how strong he or she is at PvP and how much fun it is. PvE-ers will most likely die a lot but they would be rezed by the experienced PvP-er who most likely will know when to retreat and how to stay alive, PvE-ers would receive some tips on how to assess the winning odds better and would get some advice on pvp gear and skills.

Now that's the real taste of PvP.

Holycannoli

The rework IC needs is updated sets that people will desire. They've been long outdated now.

It was originally supposed to be this game's Darkness Falls from DAOC, but Darkness Falls had great gear to farm for. IC mostly doesn't. You can get some runes and storage and stuff but gear-wise it's not worth it, and most players would rather buy the tel var stuff like runes from a guild vendor rather than going there to farm it.

Proc/NoProc etc. don't matter.

Necrotech_Master

Holycannoli wrote: »

The rework IC needs is updated sets that people will desire. They've been long outdated now.

It was originally supposed to be this game's Darkness Falls from DAOC, but Darkness Falls had great gear to farm for. IC mostly doesn't. You can get some runes and storage and stuff but gear-wise it's not worth it, and most players would rather buy the tel var stuff like runes from a guild vendor rather than going there to farm it.

Proc/NoProc etc. don't matter.

tell that to all the people selling powerful assault gear lol (especially ice staves for several million gold)

harbinger was also a really popular pvp set for awhile too

YandereGirlfriend

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

The rework IC needs is updated sets that people will desire. They've been long outdated now.

It was originally supposed to be this game's Darkness Falls from DAOC, but Darkness Falls had great gear to farm for. IC mostly doesn't. You can get some runes and storage and stuff but gear-wise it's not worth it, and most players would rather buy the tel var stuff like runes from a guild vendor rather than going there to farm it.

Proc/NoProc etc. don't matter.

tell that to all the people selling powerful assault gear lol (especially ice staves for several million gold)

harbinger was also a really popular pvp set for awhile too

True but that's only one relevant set out of the like dozen or more that are available there. That isn't a very good batting average for the totality of the sets. A refresh of existing IC sets and the addition of more sets (BTW, can we please get some more sets that work in Ravenwatch available from PvP sources?) would be a welcome move.