ZOS, consider this to get empty campaigns back to a healthy population level

HonestLoverr

Cyrodiil campaign changes:

Close down Blackreach campaign (Its dead empty outside of primetimes with only emp title grinders, AP farmers and trolls being left. More and more guilds make the move over to GH every month)

Close down No CP No Proc campaign (Its even more empty outside of primetimes and doesn't even feel alive during primtimes. I'd call the No Proc campaign to be the least interesting campaign of them all since the No Proc restriction took place)

Close down under level 50 campaign (most players even at low level rather join GH anyways)

Open up another Campaign. No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.



Imperial City campaign changes:

Close down No CP No Proc AND the CP Imperial City campaigns (Imperial City is mainly used to farm leads nowadays. And even that dried out a lot with new better mythics releasing with every expansion)

Go for a rework instead: The idea of Imperial City for a PvPvE experience was good in its core, but not well thought through. There is no real reason to hop in there outside of Midyear Mayhem event. If players don't get a regular incentive to do so, they simply won't.

By shifting the current Imperial City system into the one and only well-established and fun PvPvE experience known on the video game market - so successful that it even settled in Esports - should help with achieving this goal. And that is the good old Moba games. Add a moba style combat system to each of the districts making them feel alive through constant NPC respawns attacking the other side of the district and the players. Instead of a 3 faction war, make it a 2 faction fight at a time in the districts. Lower the district count if nessessary. Add the option to seperately queue for the districts if you prefer it that way. Adjust the rulesets for the single district areas for allowing more options to choose from (like a CP district, a NO CP district, a NO CP + NO Proc district). This is nothing overcomplicated or niche like the card game. This is simple, straightforward, and fun if done right while also seperating from the mass of moba games. Literally every kid out there knows how a moba works. And for those who don't know, make one of the district become the tutorial. On top of this, add every single PvP item available in Cyrodiil to the vendors in Imperial City and adjust the Telvar gain accordingly.

You will get a true small scale and small map size PvPvE environment that way without the need of having to invent something completely new. Give your PvP players some content before you are going for the promised ones that we are waiting for so long. While making your campaigns feel refreshing, interesting and rewarding again.

deleted221106-002999

No thanks.

acastanza_ESO

No. No-proc Cyrodiil is the only tolerable campaign. Constant Dark Convergence that's impossible to escape with the broken CC immunity and lag SUCKS, and unkillable Earthgore popping ballgroups are stupid. It isn't fun.
Maybe after the server code rerwite if it fixes the intolerable performance issues that have crept back in, but in the meantime if you actually want to have skill matter in your combat, Ravenwatch is the only place to play. It's just a shame most people want to be carried by OP proc sets instead of actually learn to play.

HonestLoverr

Yea dc is out of control indeed. Bombs left and right everywhere you go can be so annoying to the point it made me ragequit the game several times already. But that set is a problem on its own. And it basically carries ball groups only. Still its way to overtuned coupled with CC immunity on top of movement speed buffs, and all the healstacking.

Yet no proc campaign is bad on its own. Its gone so empty after the no proc changes. Me and my wife mained No CP campaign back when it was still had procs. That was our only place we could manage to actually get a balanced feeling in general since CP campaign was massively unbalanced with the tank meta happening there at that time. Today its just a shadow of its former self. Since most people complain about the bomb sets getting used like dark convergence and plague break, I don't understand why they just don't disable those sets there instead of nearly every set there is. Locking people out of 90% of gear when entering no proc was a bad idea and its what caused people to turn away from Ravenwatch without looking back.

To still have a No Proc experience though, I included the option to have that in Imperial City instead. If there is a small scale and smaller map opportunity with a ruleset that fits everyones needs, it could also help with having people to play with and against each other at all timezones while also making the second campaign being a good alternative to Greyhost. They can disable DC and PB there, that would be awesome. The higher AP gain means it lures players into it and motivates new player to farm their gear to be PvP ready with the sets from there. The 7 days length means people can still use it to get their emp title fast and get their transmutes more than once every month. And the No CP means you get the same TTK like you have in BG's (excluding scroll / emp / well buffs of course).

As it is now, everything feels like more and more blant without any changes to campaigns whatsoever. Changes are needed. And since the last idea for PvP was a card game that nearly no one is interested in, I thought I bring up my ideas to help the situation in case they are lacking inspiration lol.

Amottica

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

No thanks.

I am with you.

There have always been low-pop campaigns and people who prefer them to the busy campaign. There is no need to force players to join a different campaign.

The best solution to bring more people back to Cyrodiil is to fix the performance. That is better than forcing people to condense into fewer campaigns leading to less flexibility on busier weekends.

acastanza_ESO

To still have a No Proc experience though, I included the option to have that in Imperial City instead

Except that isn't what I, and my friends, want to play. We want to play Cyrodiil without all the no-skill proc set trash. I get that we're a minority group apparently, but, at least until this Oakensoul nonsense, the actual experience of playing in no proc was MUCH better even outnumbered against large groups (if only when they showed up only in primetime). The problem is that people would rather run around in an unkillable ballgroup because that's what the game's (bad) combat designer apparently likes and wants to reinforce with the game design.

HonestLoverr

@Amottica Nope that doesn't help at all. PC NA is way better performance wise after the server hardware upgrade. And Ravenwatch is still dead empty with having a couple groups around for about 2 hours at US prime time only. That is the opposite of a healthy population. Grey Host is more populated after the performance went up though. But thats about it.

Also this post wasn't mean to be some sort of stealing no proc campaign fans their toy. it was meant to help getting players back into Cyrodiil by not only merging campaigns, but also offering interesting alternative ways to still experience whatever people feel like when they don't feel like going into either Cyrodiil or battlegrounds. People have been asking for PvP content and ZOS didn't deliver. While Imperial City having the potential to become what it should have been from the start.

Rohamad_Ali

Thank you for posting suggestions. Dead campaigns are not much fun to me personally either. I was just wanting to add a suggestion to open a campaign that has all the deer, torch bugs and tower doors reinstalled so old players can enjoy some nostalgia.

HonestLoverr

I don't want to turn this thread into a no proc discussion. Just wanna leave some infos for you guys here in case you didn't know:

Most of the proc sets are near useless in CP Cyrodiil. There are certain builds around that can make use of it if you really go all-in with your build, like magblades or bow stamsorc for example. That doesn't mean stat boost sets are different. Its just that one way, your prefered stats get the boost that pushes the number you wanna see. The other way, its procs that grant you a number or two on top of your damage under certain conditions to get a sum of the number you wanna see.
At the end, it comes down to your build if the first or the second way shall bring you your desired outcome. Yet most proc sets are still underwhelming and useless compared to straight stat boosting. There are even proc sets that don't do anything special besides, proccing a stat boost lol. See, people still go for weapon or spell damage stacking in CP too. Magsorcs stack their magicka. Magplars stacking their spell damage. Or they just wear what you guys would do as well, sets like deadly or warmaiden. Etc. etc.

I don't know why you still think procs carry outside of dc and pb. Or why it should be different in terms of skill. With dc and pb I agree. I can't even deny that, because that is simply facts. But I can tell you the rest of the proc sets is not worse than straight stat boosting nor does it mean you will need less skill. I suggest you to consider thinking about it again and maybe try to see the upsides of having more than 10 sets you can play with.

Restrictions are needed. But diversity is what makes ESO special.

acastanza_ESO

I'm not saying the vast majority of proc sets aren't useless, but those aren't the ones people are running. All I see in Grey host is DC, PB, VD, Balrogh (which can be combined with Oakensoul now for absolutely insane burst with crazy uptimes) and Earthgore (a huge carry set that pops for crazy healing). Sure some of them are interesting and not super-OP sets like
Kynmarcher’s Cruelty or Daedric Trickerey that could be neat to have if we were to go "no-cp semi-proc" to spice things up a bit (although they are still quite, maybe too, strong) but full proc is absolutely not worth all the terrible ballgroup-favorite meta proc sets.

I'm not against loosening the proc set restrictions somewhat, but if it encourages ballgroup style play it's gonna be a "no" from me.

Amottica

HonestLoverr wrote: »

@Amottica Nope that doesn't help at all. PC NA is way better performance wise after the server hardware upgrade. And Ravenwatch is still dead empty with having a couple groups around for about 2 hours at US prime time only. That is the opposite of a healthy population. Grey Host is more populated after the performance went up though. But thats about it.

Also this post wasn't mean to be some sort of stealing no proc campaign fans their toy. it was meant to help getting players back into Cyrodiil by not only merging campaigns, but also offering interesting alternative ways to still experience whatever people feel like when they don't feel like going into either Cyrodiil or battlegrounds. People have been asking for PvP content and ZOS didn't deliver. While Imperial City having the potential to become what it should have been from the start.

People coming back is not instant. No reason to think it would be and Zenimax is not even finished with their work to improve performance.

Also, I have been told that historically only one campaign has been full most days during prime time with the rest of the campaigns being low pop. They tell me that the early days of this game saw two campaigns that would normally be full during primetime but that was only for a few months.

The reality is that it is better for Zenimax to find a way to entice players back to Cyrodil than to force them to do something they do not want to do. Forcing them is more likely to reduce the overall population across all the campaigns even more than already.

In this, Zenimax announced doing some short-term changes to dice things up a little in Cyrodiil. We can hope that will draw some players back that left long ago. Regardless, I think a positive direction is a better choice if we want sustained improvements to the population.

And the imperial city is dead for the same reason every old zone is dead. Cyrodill still has a population because there is something to draw players in. People move on to newer scenes and there is nothing there to keep their interest. Zenimax already reduced the number of IC instances and it changed nothing. Reducing the number of instances even further will still do absolutely nothing.

HonestLoverr

@Amottica The early days of this game was when I played this game for the first time. When the first emperor was a guy who exploited game mechanics to become literally unkillable and untargetable and even used macros on top to guarantee he will be the first to get that title. ESO's world first emperor was an exploiter. The population back then was so high, this guy literally farmed hundreds and hundreds of players at once running around like headless chickens in the open field with the old vamp bat swam ult while everyone was trying to land a hit on him. So regarding the player cap in the early days was several times higher than it is now. About 2000 or 3000 per campaign if i remember right. Low pop of old days would be about 5-10 times higher than poplock on GH nowadays.

Imperial City is one of its kind. It is not the usual PvE zone. It was connected to Cyrodiil when it got released. You could literally go from Cyrodiil over the bridge into Imperial City. On those paths players got farmed trying to enter IC. Well things got changed and both are seperate types of content now. Yet IC doesn't give players enough incentive anymore playing there for either PvP or PvE reasons outside of Midyear Mayhem to make it an active PvP environment at all times. A rework helps finetuning this zone to make it a fully fleshed out fun and rewarding place to play for quick action or on a regular base even.

Amottica

HonestLoverr wrote: »

@Amottica The early days of this game was when I played this game for the first time. When the first emperor was a guy who exploited game mechanics to become literally unkillable and untargetable and even used macros on top to guarantee he will be the first to get that title. ESO's world first emperor was an exploiter. The population back then was so high, this guy literally farmed hundreds and hundreds of players at once running around like headless chickens in the open field with the old vamp bat swam ult while everyone was trying to land a hit on him. So regarding the player cap in the early days was several times higher than it is now. About 2000 or 3000 per campaign if i remember right. Low pop of old days would be about 5-10 times higher than poplock on GH nowadays.

Imperial City is one of its kind. It is not the usual PvE zone. It was connected to Cyrodiil when it got released. You could literally go from Cyrodiil over the bridge into Imperial City. On those paths players got farmed trying to enter IC. Well things got changed and both are seperate types of content now. Yet IC doesn't give players enough incentive anymore playing there for either PvP or PvE reasons outside of Midyear Mayhem to make it an active PvP environment at all times. A rework helps finetuning this zone to make it a fully fleshed out fun and rewarding place to play for quick action or on a regular base even.

Yes, I am aware Zenimax reduced the player cap for Cyrodiil multiple times in the first year alone. Considering the mass exodus of PvP players from those early days what we see now is relative to the current Cyrodiil player base. Forcing people to play a campaign they do not want to play will not solve anything and merely drive more players away from Cyrodiil.

As for IC, it was dead before Zenimax unlinked the campaign from Cyrodiil which also meant when people enter IC now they are not taking up pop cap space from the Cyrodiil campaign. Zenimax has also tried some tweaks to increase interest but the reality is Tel Var is the only real driving force for going to IC for PvP after people have done the PvE aspect.

So if a workable idea that would increase interest in IC to give people a reason to keep doing there is presented maybe it will be a little more robust. Forcing the very small IC population into fewer instances means there would still be a very small population in IC as it does nothing to make it interesting.

I am also quite certain the player from Entropy Rising did not cheat to get the first empower. I know some of those players and that would not be tolerated. They just happened to know far more about how to play ESO and how Cyrodiil worked than most players on that first day the game was live. They were very active in beta, and some probably alpha, testing of this game. Yea, I may be late to this game but from playing other MMORPGs I have known and know a number of players that have been here since launch and some that were here way before launch.

HonestLoverr

@Amottica He didn't cheat, he was exploiting. I was there when that happened. People were reporting him on masses. The thing is though, the game allowed doing so in the first place. So of course the massive reports were to no avail. If you weren't even there at that time but instead you come here and make up your own assumptions on what happened and what didn't, then I don't know why you even reply to this like you know it better? His methods got published on all gaming journalist sites on how he did it in detail together with a message to ZOS that all of this was already posted as feedback back in the beta without it having been fixed when the game went live man. This possible before release, same goes for the daedra motif dupes in the early days. It spread like the plaque and more players did the same afterwards until unkillable and untargetable perma batswarm sorcs got nerfed into the ground. With unkillable permablock and shield stunlock DK's following right after that. I mentioned this point just to make it clear how many people there were on the campaigns since you were talking about other campaigns being low pop back then too, and that this comparison is a bad one. There is a different with old days 1 bar and nowadays 1 bar. The difference is several hundred people at 1 bar back then compared to literally only a handful of players at 1 bar today.

And I already gave a workable idea to populate IC that would potentially increase interest in IC. See my first post. I don't know why you are focusing on the merging aspect only. A merge is undeniably one of the most reliable options to straight out populate campaigns a little more. As it has always been. Not just with this games PvP campaigns, but also when it comes to whole servers from other games in general. But pop there is indeed very low. Just as it is on Ravenwatch. When you have about 10 players in the whole campaing outside of primetimes, then something must be done about it. A merge alone for Cyrodiil won't do it either though, I am afraid. Hence why I posted possible solutions for both.

If you got better ideas, feel free to share.

Yasha

You are wrong.

The best thing to do would be to close all the proc-set enabled campaigns and only have non-proc set campaigns. But don't worry, you will still be able to play with your procs in IC.

Amottica

HonestLoverr wrote: »

@Amottica He didn't cheat, he was exploiting. I was there when that happened. People were reporting him on masses. The thing is though, the game allowed doing so in the first place. So of course the massive reports were to no avail. If you weren't even there at that time but instead you come here and make up your own assumptions on what happened and what didn't, then I don't know why you even reply to this like you know it better? His methods got published on all gaming journalist sites on how he did it in detail together with a message to ZOS that all of this was already posted as feedback back in the beta without it having been fixed when the game went live man. This possible before release, same goes for the daedra motif dupes in the early days. It spread like the plaque and more players did the same afterwards until unkillable and untargetable perma batswarm sorcs got nerfed into the ground. With unkillable permablock and shield stunlock DK's following right after that. I mentioned this point just to make it clear how many people there were on the campaigns since you were talking about other campaigns being low pop back then too, and that this comparison is a bad one. There is a different with old days 1 bar and nowadays 1 bar. The difference is several hundred people at 1 bar back then compared to literally only a handful of players at 1 bar today.

And I already gave a workable idea to populate IC that would potentially increase interest in IC. See my first post. I don't know why you are focusing on the merging aspect only. A merge is undeniably one of the most reliable options to straight out populate campaigns a little more. As it has always been. Not just with this games PvP campaigns, but also when it comes to whole servers from other games in general. But pop there is indeed very low. Just as it is on Ravenwatch. When you have about 10 players in the whole campaing outside of primetimes, then something must be done about it. A merge alone for Cyrodiil won't do it either though, I am afraid. Hence why I posted possible solutions for both.

If you got better ideas, feel free to share.

1. I have merely pointed out that "merging servers" will not do anything positive for Cyrodiil or IC and only have a negative effect overall. Also, did not find the rest of the solution for IC interesting and somewhat generic. It seems like most posts are in agreement with me.

2. Since you claim they were exploiting unintended aspects of ESO (which is cheating) and Zenimax confirmed this yet took no action, please provide the link to the statement you claim Zenimax made. It is easy to suggest such things.

Have a good day.

HonestLoverr

Amottica wrote: »

1. I have merely pointed out that "merging servers" will not do anything positive for Cyrodiil or IC and only have a negative effect overall. Also, did not find the rest of the solution for IC interesting and somewhat generic. It seems like most posts are in agreement with me.

2. Since you claim they were exploiting unintended aspects of ESO (which is cheating) and Zenimax confirmed this yet took no action, please provide the link to the statement you claim Zenimax made. It is easy to suggest such things.

Have a good day.

I was not claiming anything regarding Zenmax statements. No idea how my words can be this much misunderstand I think I pointed it out good enough? I was stating facts what happened in detail as someone who played back then who was there on the field and that guy farmed us non-stop, while you just came in here making assumptions without even being around at that time and without knowing what was going on. Wether its the player cap or the example I mentioned to explain that there was a time when hundreds of people clogged up at one spot. Because of early days exploiting that the first emp took part in resulting in nerfs for this kind builds and exploits. Whats so hard to understand?

Also the only people agreeing with you here are the vocal minority of the no proc faction. Which i could see coming anways before I posted my suggestions. Of course you guys and girls don't like anything what I suggest because it has to do with closing your campaign for a shift to a more populated second one that has procs activated that you all hate with passion obviously.

You guys disagree. Fair enough. But I will not repeat myself again. I am trying to make a serious suggestion here to get campaigns back to a healthy population, so everyone gets people to play with no matter which PvP aspect you wanna do and no matter which time. I would appreciate having a constructive conversation instead of just straight out hating everything I say.


Thank you.

gariondavey

Things you said that were a good idea:
double AP and faction lock and 7 day length for no cp campaign

Everything else was not a good idea.

Amottica

gariondavey wrote: »

Things you said that were a good idea:
double AP and faction lock and 7 day length for no cp campaign

Everything else was not a good idea.

+1.

Though double AP is only effective for short term durations. If it happens to often it becomes the norm.

It would be better for Zenimax improve performance on a meaningful and persistent manner which should lead to a healthier population over time. Cyrodiil didn’t get to where it is over night and won’t repopulate instantly either.

Necrotech_Master

i play more in blackreach than grey host, i hate waiting in queues to get into the instance

i actually preferred ravenwatch back when it was proc enabled with no cp

Amottica

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

1. I have merely pointed out that "merging servers" will not do anything positive for Cyrodiil or IC and only have a negative effect overall. Also, did not find the rest of the solution for IC interesting and somewhat generic. It seems like most posts are in agreement with me.

2. Since you claim they were exploiting unintended aspects of ESO (which is cheating) and Zenimax confirmed this yet took no action, please provide the link to the statement you claim Zenimax made. It is easy to suggest such things.

Have a good day.

Also the only people agreeing with you here are the vocal minority of the no proc faction.

This group is hardly the vocal minority. Heck, even my comments note sound reasoning, and part of it with demonstrable proof that reasoning is accurate, as to why the core of the suggestion that I note would not have the desired end effect.

I do thank you for providing your ideas to the forum as it takes a lot to put oneself out there for agreement and dissent about such ideas. Maybe the idea will gain some support over the coming days. Good luck with this.

xDeusEJRx

No. Taking away no proc is stupid as well as blackreach. Gray host type of campaigns are terrible.
I hate being stuck with 1 faction because if my faction keeps the map gated, how am I supposed to pvp? I'm a solo player in pvp and can't dictate much on the map so should I get punished by not being able to play the game because of the 30-40 man faction stacked zergs that sit at enemy gate keeps all day? I play pvp to fight players( i don't care about the map I'm here for the combat) and I cannot possibly do that if my faction is keeping the map gated 24/7

We already have one gray host, stop trying to make carbon copies for no feasible reason

HonestLoverr

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i play more in blackreach than grey host, i hate waiting in queues to get into the instance

i actually preferred ravenwatch back when it was proc enabled with no cp

Blackreach is purely onesided. Players just switch faction within an eyeblink to join whatever faction currently is flipping the map. This has been the case as long as there are no factionlock campaigns. I for my part dislike the whole factionlock idea, because it is not waterproof hindering toxic behaviour from happening. But it is the only reliable ruleset keeping toxic behaviour on a kinda low level at least. Even though you got things like double teaming a lot more on GH. And some people made alt accounts to workaround the ruleset. Completely new Cyrodiil mechanics would have to be invented to take its place. Though I doubt that this will happen anytime soon, because factionlock is the only real reason to buy alliance package and alliance change tokens from the crown store resulting in less profit from PvPers.

With your last sentence I agree with you and I feel you. Mained No CP campaign in the past. Not anymore though after No Proc changes took place. No idea why they didn't just disable DC, PB and VD if these are the No.1 reasons for most to avoid CP campaigns. Some might also have problems with CP system breaking balance even further, but thats why it was made No CP in the first place.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

We already have one gray host, stop trying to make carbon copies for no feasible reason

No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.

This is not a carbon copy of GH. It is an adjusted ruleset of old No CP, with factionlock to attempt keeping trolling from turncoats on a minimum, double AP at all times to motivate players to keep it populated, and 7 days ruleset for all those interested in faster campaign rewards and emp titles to also make all the emp farm groups out there happy whose sole purpose is to PvDoor and bombfarm people on faction stack spots to achieve their goal. I can imagine a campaign like this will be way more populated than just 1 bar outside of primetimes.

I have no problem with having PB, DC and VD disabled there as I already mentioned somewhere above. Pretty much a "no bomb" campaign if you will. People shouldn't be locked out of using majority of their sets or shiny mythics for build diversity reasons while allowing players to wear their favorite sets again that they worked hard for farming and golding their stuff out. This would help calm down everyone that hates these sets in particular since they got invented and gets those who play on Ravenwatch more people to play just on a more populated server while still respecting their frustration and getting rid of the main reason of it.

This doesn't solve the root cause, because it will still be happening on GH and battlegrounds. But it would a step in the right direction.

blktauna

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i play more in blackreach than grey host, i hate waiting in queues to get into the instance

i actually preferred ravenwatch back when it was proc enabled with no cp

This times one million. I hate no proc. Its irritating and sucks the fun out of pvp for me. NO CP gave a better footing for below 300CP people (ie most folks) and you still had fun builds and variety.

dinokstrunz

Agreed The no proc status on Campaigns are awful and killing Cyrodiil. Bringing back procs will certainly bump the population again. I miss the old ravenwatch used to be good times but most of the old crowd left for CP or quit. Stop delaying on Cyrodiil action something needs to be done asap. @ZOS_BrianWheeler or whoever at ZoS is responsible for Player vs Player.

YandereGirlfriend

A better solution would be to give more of an incentive to home and participate in the underpopulated campaigns as most of the time it's better to give players access to carrots rather than to beat them up with sticks.

As to what that incentive might be: an extra AP multiplier would be a nice start but you could also include things like a War Torte-style Alliance Rank mutiplier so that the underpopulated campaigns were more competitive for players going for Grand Overlord, etc.

Of course, most dedicated PvP players are already swimming in AP and have reached five stars long ago, so you would perhaps need something more for them, but you wouldn't have to go crazy. Something like an extra box of Transmutes for reaching Tier 3 or something could be persuasive.

Necrotech_Master

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i play more in blackreach than grey host, i hate waiting in queues to get into the instance

i actually preferred ravenwatch back when it was proc enabled with no cp

Blackreach is purely onesided. Players just switch faction within an eyeblink to join whatever faction currently is flipping the map. This has been the case as long as there are no factionlock campaigns. I for my part dislike the whole factionlock idea, because it is not waterproof hindering toxic behaviour from happening. But it is the only reliable ruleset keeping toxic behaviour on a kinda low level at least. Even though you got things like double teaming a lot more on GH. And some people made alt accounts to workaround the ruleset. Completely new Cyrodiil mechanics would have to be invented to take its place. Though I doubt that this will happen anytime soon, because factionlock is the only real reason to buy alliance package and alliance change tokens from the crown store resulting in less profit from PvPers.

With your last sentence I agree with you and I feel you. Mained No CP campaign in the past. Not anymore though after No Proc changes took place. No idea why they didn't just disable DC, PB and VD if these are the No.1 reasons for most to avoid CP campaigns. Some might also have problems with CP system breaking balance even further, but thats why it was made No CP in the first place..

at least the map MOVES in blackreach, grey host just feels stale all the time, full of tower farmers

i actually find more people using "toxic" builds in grey host than blackreach (1 shot heavy attacks, etc)

even the zone chat in blackreach is less toxic than grey host lol

neferpitou73

blktauna wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i play more in blackreach than grey host, i hate waiting in queues to get into the instance

i actually preferred ravenwatch back when it was proc enabled with no cp

This times one million. I hate no proc. Its irritating and sucks the fun out of pvp for me. NO CP gave a better footing for below 300CP people (ie most folks) and you still had fun builds and variety.

This times a googol. I find the fights in Raven utterly boring and BR is pretty lively on PCNA primetime, which is good enough for me now.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

A better solution would be to give more of an incentive to home and participate in the underpopulated campaigns as most of the time it's better to give players access to carrots rather than to beat them up with sticks.

As to what that incentive might be: an extra AP multiplier would be a nice start but you could also include things like a War Torte-style Alliance Rank mutiplier so that the underpopulated campaigns were more competitive for players going for Grand Overlord, etc.

Of course, most dedicated PvP players are already swimming in AP and have reached five stars long ago, so you would perhaps need something more for them, but you wouldn't have to go crazy. Something like an extra box of Transmutes for reaching Tier 3 or something could be persuasive.

I've thought it might be neat to let emp/scroll buffs from your home campaign carry over to PvE and just lock the faction in your home campaign.

Necrotech_Master

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I've thought it might be neat to let emp/scroll buffs from your home campaign carry over to PvE and just lock the faction in your home campaign.

they did have this originally in 2014, it led to there being 1 main campaign and then 3 campaigns that were always fully controlled by each faction purely to get the bonuses outside of cyro lol

this was however great for doing the PVE side of cyro and getting skyshards when your faction controlled the whole map and it was generally pretty low pop lol

Didgerion

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Cyrodiil campaign changes:

Close down Blackreach campaign (Its dead empty outside of primetimes with only emp title grinders, AP farmers and trolls being left. More and more guilds make the move over to GH every month)

Close down No CP No Proc campaign (Its even more empty outside of primetimes and doesn't even feel alive during primtimes. I'd call the No Proc campaign to be the least interesting campaign of them all since the No Proc restriction took place)

Close down under level 50 campaign (most players even at low level rather join GH anyways)

Open up another Campaign. No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.



Imperial City campaign changes:

Close down No CP No Proc AND the CP Imperial City campaigns (Imperial City is mainly used to farm leads nowadays. And even that dried out a lot with new better mythics releasing with every expansion)

Go for a rework instead: The idea of Imperial City for a PvPvE experience was good in its core, but not well thought through. There is no real reason to hop in there outside of Midyear Mayhem event. If players don't get a regular incentive to do so, they simply won't.

By shifting the current Imperial City system into the one and only well-established and fun PvPvE experience known on the video game market - so successful that it even settled in Esports - should help with achieving this goal. And that is the good old Moba games. Add a moba style combat system to each of the districts making them feel alive through constant NPC respawns attacking the other side of the district and the players. Instead of a 3 faction war, make it a 2 faction fight at a time in the districts. Lower the district count if nessessary. Add the option to seperately queue for the districts if you prefer it that way. Adjust the rulesets for the single district areas for allowing more options to choose from (like a CP district, a NO CP district, a NO CP + NO Proc district). This is nothing overcomplicated or niche like the card game. This is simple, straightforward, and fun if done right while also seperating from the mass of moba games. Literally every kid out there knows how a moba works. And for those who don't know, make one of the district become the tutorial. On top of this, add every single PvP item available in Cyrodiil to the vendors in Imperial City and adjust the Telvar gain accordingly.

You will get a true small scale and small map size PvPvE environment that way without the need of having to invent something completely new. Give your PvP players some content before you are going for the promised ones that we are waiting for so long. While making your campaigns feel refreshing, interesting and rewarding again.

All those changes won't fix Cyrodiil.
Yes No CP/No Proc campaign might seem boring for some, but it is liked by others. Why take it away from the minority?
I play No CP campaign and i enjoy it. There is less burst, I have time to react and counter things (it was quite fun pre Oakensoul).

An look there are 2 CP campaigns one of which is empty! so the problem is clearly not the No-CP campaign but the core laws that drive Cyrodiil. I'll list few that needs to be fixed imo:

1. No penalty for big groups - big groups are way too efficient on the cyrodiil map, one big group can face-roll all the map without any challenges and drawbacks, this problem is really noticeable on less populated servers.
2. The impact of solo players on the map is negligible - right now the only thing that a solo player can do is to flip resources and towns at a reduced speed.
3. The dominating faction gets to have the extra buffs which is quickly disbalancing the Cyrodiil even further.

Imperial City is even easier to fix, just add a reward cycle similar to Cyrodiil and remove the telvar thievery, because it is very cruel as it is now, one player is having the fun on the pain of the others, it is just an unhealthy fun ratio.

Necrotech_Master

Didgerion wrote: »

HonestLoverr wrote: »

Cyrodiil campaign changes:

Close down Blackreach campaign (Its dead empty outside of primetimes with only emp title grinders, AP farmers and trolls being left. More and more guilds make the move over to GH every month)

Close down No CP No Proc campaign (Its even more empty outside of primetimes and doesn't even feel alive during primtimes. I'd call the No Proc campaign to be the least interesting campaign of them all since the No Proc restriction took place)

Close down under level 50 campaign (most players even at low level rather join GH anyways)

Open up another Campaign. No CP/ Proc / Factionlock / Double AP at all times / 7 days ruleset.



Imperial City campaign changes:

Close down No CP No Proc AND the CP Imperial City campaigns (Imperial City is mainly used to farm leads nowadays. And even that dried out a lot with new better mythics releasing with every expansion)

Go for a rework instead: The idea of Imperial City for a PvPvE experience was good in its core, but not well thought through. There is no real reason to hop in there outside of Midyear Mayhem event. If players don't get a regular incentive to do so, they simply won't.

By shifting the current Imperial City system into the one and only well-established and fun PvPvE experience known on the video game market - so successful that it even settled in Esports - should help with achieving this goal. And that is the good old Moba games. Add a moba style combat system to each of the districts making them feel alive through constant NPC respawns attacking the other side of the district and the players. Instead of a 3 faction war, make it a 2 faction fight at a time in the districts. Lower the district count if nessessary. Add the option to seperately queue for the districts if you prefer it that way. Adjust the rulesets for the single district areas for allowing more options to choose from (like a CP district, a NO CP district, a NO CP + NO Proc district). This is nothing overcomplicated or niche like the card game. This is simple, straightforward, and fun if done right while also seperating from the mass of moba games. Literally every kid out there knows how a moba works. And for those who don't know, make one of the district become the tutorial. On top of this, add every single PvP item available in Cyrodiil to the vendors in Imperial City and adjust the Telvar gain accordingly.

You will get a true small scale and small map size PvPvE environment that way without the need of having to invent something completely new. Give your PvP players some content before you are going for the promised ones that we are waiting for so long. While making your campaigns feel refreshing, interesting and rewarding again.

All those changes won't fix Cyrodiil.
Yes No CP/No Proc campaign might seem boring for some, but it is liked by others. Why take it away from the minority?
I play No CP campaign and i enjoy it. There is less burst, I have time to react and counter things (it was quite fun pre Oakensoul).

An look there are 2 CP campaigns one of which is empty! so the problem is clearly not the No-CP campaign but the core laws that drive Cyrodiil. I'll list few that needs to be fixed imo:

1. No penalty for big groups - big groups are way too efficient on the cyrodiil map, one big group can face-roll all the map without any challenges and drawbacks, this problem is really noticeable on less populated servers.
2. The impact of solo players on the map is negligible - right now the only thing that a solo player can do is to flip resources and towns at a reduced speed.
3. The dominating faction gets to have the extra buffs which is quickly disbalancing the Cyrodiil even further.

Imperial City is even easier to fix, just add a reward cycle similar to Cyrodiil and remove the telvar thievery, because it is very cruel as it is now, one player is having the fun on the pain of the others, it is just an unhealthy fun ratio.

to go along with that point, you say that removing the no cp/no proc would be against the minority

well i personally think that the tel var adds a fun risk/reward to imperial city, and it would be kind of boring if there was no risk, everyone would constantly be running around with 10k tel var for the 4x multiplier

if they removed the death penalty they would also remove the multiplier making it even harder to earn

so no, i would not want imperial city to be "fixed" like that

i would rather they remove the respawn limitations from the surface, you should not be restricted to respawning on the surface if your faction does not control the district, that just utterly kills any fun up there