Cheating ?

Lailaamell

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

Cheating is mostly preventable. I work on client/server architectures in games like this for a living. Game studios intentionally choose to trust the client in a lot of cases. In other cases they just don't invest the time into writing secure code. Is that a smart business decision? Hard to say actually. Writing secure code takes more time and games tend to have a lot of churn, so writing secure code in games costs more money then most industries if measured over time.

Pretty much all exploits are known, in that we have seen the same ones in games for decades. And technically they usually go back to the same core software bugs. Trusting the client, lack of bounds checking, etc.. Basic stuff.

One of my favorite videos on the history of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhKfnVcVHSk&t=58s

No matter how much security you put in someone will find a way to get past it. Being dev of an anti cheat is probly not the most enjoyable job

Xarc

there's a lot of "good players" in cyrodiil with low cp account for some months now.

I think it could possibly be cheaters who have been banned and they decided to come back for another chance.

chris25602

its really not about stopping cheating, I mean humans pretty much cheat we have been doing it for thousands of years. Its like siege defense vs assault but instead of proscribed game systems, someone was like ... what if I could throw this stone way faster than you think...after that castles had walls that slopped inwards instead of 90 degrees from the ground. I mean we just keep cheating upwards.

WaywardArgonian

Like others have said, it can be very difficult to distinguish between cheating and lag/bugs/balance issues. I've seen a few suspicious things in Cyro over the years (players not taking any damage even while stunned; suspiciously apt awareness of hidden players) , but it's hard to call it out when there's no evidence to back up that they're cheating.

And there's plenty of players out there who will call anyone who kills them, or who they can't kill, a cheater, because they do not grasp in-game concepts such as delayed bursts or HoT stacking. Even basic things such as detection potions and Shade still mystify some players.

That said, I trust that ZOS has methods to detect cheating that go beyond the mere observation of gameplay.

LikiLoki

I remember the story of how a group of players reported a vulnerability in ZOS. The players made a video where they demonstrated the error of the game developer. If you think that they were rewarded and thanked, then you are mistaken. They were banned. While we continue to be punished for help, constructive criticism, pointing out mistakes and suggestions for improvement, it is impossible to treat such news positively

Dem_kitkats1

maxjapank wrote: »

Limitless resources, over-the-top dmg and mitigation, seems to take little dmg at execution range while burst healing up, and most of all, exceptional speed. I’m very familiar with most sets, vamp mitigation, etc. So I know that some of this is explainable. But it’s the speed recently that surprises me. Even with 2 speed enchants and rapids, they are faster. So what? Does that mean they are using the Wild Hunt ring and/or 3 speed enchants, minor expedition? Possibly. But when certain players have it all, I’m likely to call rubbish. We all know who they are. And yes, they are quite skilled at los and most aspects of gameplay. But so have been many so-called Olympic athletes.

The amount of speed, on classes that should have a harder time getting it, without sacrifice and without the use of R.A.T., coupled with the seemingly endless amounts of resources that some players manage to achieve in No-CP areas always boggled my mind. Especially in lowbies where wearing Ring of the Wild Hunt isn't even possible. It also makes me suspicious when there are people out there looking for hacks that do precisely that.

Scarr

BG cheaters, you know the sweats who ALWAYS go 40-0 no matter how rng their team...

Holycannoli

DarrowLykos wrote: »

Wait until they make cheating in games a criminal offense like they have in certain other countries

Lol what?

LikiLoki

Holycannoli wrote: »

DarrowLykos wrote: »

Wait until they make cheating in games a criminal offense like they have in certain other countries

Lol what?

In South Korea, they can be jailed for distributing and creating cheats for up to 5 years. Gaming companies lobby for similar laws everywhere. Already now they are also considering the possibility of determining the category of ownership of things on the game account and protecting them with laws

Kamchuk

[quote= ...The first major case was brought to light by the deliberate meteor spamming to show what could be done...[/quote]

I had forgotten about this one. I never saw it in Cyro but I saw it on Youtube. The first time I watched it, my jaw dropped and then I couldn't stop laughing. Imagine the person receiving the spam meteors and then looking at their death stats. They would have said something like "What the [snip] just happened..." LOL

ZOS should allow that back for just one week to combat the ball groups. Scenario: A ball group takes arrius and proceeds to try to farm players, then gets hit with 60 Meteors. LMAO

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

DagenHawk

No one cheats in ESO...

Ignore those two Argonians that just flew by.

kargen27

Lephrel wrote: »

To this day I have never seen anyone cheating in PvP, there was an instance of one guy launching missiles and flying in Grahtwood a couple years ago (pretty awesome ngl), other than that, I have never seen anything.
Given the many threads on false bans already on the forums, I just feel this has probably done more bad than good.

Before certain calculations were moved from client side to server side there were several episodes of players cheating. There were and probably still are videos. There was even a short lived guide on how much you could safely tweak your numbers and avoid being reported. Don't know how prevalent cheating in Cyrodiil is now though.

Pevey

The cheat software exists and is out there if you look for it. It’s not too hard to find.

But at least now I can honestly say, beware. There is a higher likelihood than ever that you will get banned if you use it.

For entertainment, join that discord to be a spy and listen to how people cheat and how they coach each other on getting un-banned (basically: deny, deny, deny). This went on for years. I’m glad to see so many gettin caught.

Borelock762

Really old post but I've been away a year or so. I've done pvp wince launch and had 2 grand overlord emps before cp was doubled and given away. The games [Snip] code has always been susceptible to exploits which are always known and used by those "in the know" . Every patch brings new exploits and meta cheese. Add that together with [Snipe] servers, desync and lag along with the people writing their own scripts or mememory editing....(name rhymes with Diat) and it's a melting pot of a [Snip] show. I enjoyed it for many years, but the wtf just happened moments got too annoying. Easily 15-20% or more players in cyro are ware of what's broken , 5 or less acctually use software. When CE usage came to first light and the meteor spam almost set the servers on fire was hilarious. Some still use it or similar and know how to mask it. All in all I still love it but the fact the cyro map really hasn't changed in 10 years is what killed it for me.

[Edited for profanity bypass]

SeaGtGruff

LikiLoki wrote: »

I remember the story of how a group of players reported a vulnerability in ZOS. The players made a video where they demonstrated the error of the game developer. If you think that they were rewarded and thanked, then you are mistaken. They were banned. While we continue to be punished for help, constructive criticism, pointing out mistakes and suggestions for improvement, it is impossible to treat such news positively

If it's the same incident I think it was (where one of the players came to the firums afterward to tell people what happened), then I think that right there was a big part of where they messed up. As I recall, they noticed something they thought was a bug, where a boss could basically be immobilized to where it wouldn't or couldn't fight back as the players fought it, then by their own admission they repeated the situation again, and again, and again, and again-- which presumably involved multiple trial runs-- made a video of it, put the video up on the internet, and then got in contact with ZOS to tell them about the bug and the video that they had made which demonstrated the bug.

Now, I don't know whether the video could be viewed by anyone on the internet, but if it was posted so ZOS could go look at it then presumably anyone else with the URL could go look at it as well, so it would presumably be natural for ZOS to assume that the video had been posted for other players to see. And the way the OP (who was in the group that was banned) worded it, which was along the lines of "We made a video showcasing a bug that could be exploited," it kind of made it sound (to me, anyway) as though they were saying they'd made the video to showcase an exploit they'd found in order to teach other players how to go and duplicate the exploit.

The fact that (by the OP's own report) they themselves duplicated the exploit many times before making the video and then calling the video to ZOS's attention probably didn't help their situation, either.

I'm not trying to judge whether or not they did anything wrong and whether they were banned justly or unjustly, because I have no knowledge of the situation beyond what one person (who was among the banned) posted about it, so I've only got one side of the story as told by one of many participants. I'm just saying that if their intentions were as good and honorable as the OP (of the thread describing that incident) claimed, I think they went about it the wrong way on two or three counts-- (1) repeating the exploit many times before notifying ZOS, (2) making a video of the exploit, and (3) saying that the purpose of the video was to "showcase" the exploit. If they had gone about it differently, especially with respect to numbers 1 and 3, things might have ended differently for them.

Sythen88411

maxjapank wrote: »

Limitless resources, over-the-top dmg and mitigation, seems to take little dmg at execution range while burst healing up, and most of all, exceptional speed. I’m very familiar with most sets, vamp mitigation, etc. So I know that some of this is explainable. But it’s the speed recently that surprises me. Even with 2 speed enchants and rapids, they are faster. So what? Does that mean they are using the Wild Hunt ring and/or 3 speed enchants, minor expedition? Possibly. But when certain players have it all, I’m likely to call rubbish. We all know who they are. And yes, they are quite skilled at los and most aspects of gameplay. But so have been many so-called Olympic athletes.

In the end, though, I know that there isn’t much I can do to fight against cheats. So I play to have fun. Avoid them at times cause they often only seem interested in farming newer players, and occasionally join in the X against them to help get them out of the keep.

This gets my 100%

SaffronCitrusflower

The one that gets me most often is the 4 or 5 heavy attacks in a second or less. If you call them out on it they say "Oh, that's just lag mate".

Caribou77

After U37, who needs to cheat? [snip]

[edited for baiting & cheating/exploiting]

Zabagad

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The one that gets me most often is the 4 or 5 heavy attacks in a second or less. If you call them out on it they say "Oh, that's just lag mate".

Any screenshot of this?

Karma2Burn

I think certain classes need rebalancing more so than accusations of cheaters. Dks, wardens and necros need survival nerfs bigtime. How many nightblade, sorc or templar cheaters do you guys see? None.

Cast_El

Mia user are obvious.
Take a sorc and everytime you cast instant proc crystal frag they roll dodge it at the right time

joergino

Cast_El wrote: »

Mia user are obvious.
Take a sorc and everytime you cast instant proc crystal frag they roll dodge it at the right time

Isn't this prehistoric information? I thought ZOS disabled that functionality years ago. It wasn't called Mia anyway.

Marcus684

joergino wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Mia user are obvious.
Take a sorc and everytime you cast instant proc crystal frag they roll dodge it at the right time

Isn't this prehistoric information? I thought ZOS disabled that functionality years ago. It wasn't called Mia anyway.

From what I recall, ZOS disabled the ability of addons like Miat's to access info that wasn't supposed to be available, the presence of stealthed opponents being an example. I don't remember for sure if the auto-roll-dodge thing was disabled but knowing people, if it can be cheesed some people will definitely cheese it, even if it isn't with Miat's.

blktauna

There is currently a version of that software available that work in this moment. Its just not on minion and you simply have to search a bit.

there will always be sad sacks that feel thats the only way they can enjoy something.

wolveman

[Snip] I see a lot of cheating on the ad side they always have the advantage of the hammer and controls the map majority of the time this is on Xbox. Not saying the other alliances don't cheat mind you . I was a beta tester for eso fallout 76 so am aware of the bugs exploits etc. But it's getting outta hand these game companies need to put their foot down majority of the botters collect material sell it between 6 to 7 stacks at a time in each guild shop always the same name in those guild shops .

[Edited for cheating/exploiting]

TechMaybeHic

Karma2Burn wrote: »

I think certain classes need rebalancing more so than accusations of cheaters. Dks, wardens and necros need survival nerfs bigtime. How many nightblade, sorc or templar cheaters do you guys see? None.

C'mon now. So many things seem wrong about this statement, but as least leave the necros alone.

bachpain

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

That said, I trust that ZOS has methods to detect cheating that go beyond the mere observation of gameplay.

You put a lot of faith in a company that cannot come out and tell us straight up whether or not 100m detection pots are as intended or a bug, or bother to put such drastic things in their patch notes. I don't trust ZOS to invest anything into the game that doesn't directly benefit their bottom line. The only way they would do such is if there were massive outcry and obvious repercussions in the playerbase because of it.

Not that I think everyone that kills me is cheating, but I certainly don't think Zos is keeping a close eye on it at all.

rpa

If you believe someone is cheating, just report& ignore that player and forget about it. Do not expect ever knowing if it was of any use.

BenTSG

I've sent plenty of reports about cheating in my time, to still see the same people running around anyways, and the same cheating happening. I'd suggest sending in a report, but it's clear to me they don't police their own game

Marcus684

BenTSG wrote: »

I've sent plenty of reports about cheating in my time, to still see the same people running around anyways, and the same cheating happening. I'd suggest sending in a report, but it's clear to me they don't police their own game

I have known personally of players that were banned for cheating and had to start over, as well as some that had temp bans and returned after their ban expired. ZOS has at least made an attempt to crack down on cheaters in the past, so I'm going to assume it still happens.

What is much more common though, is for people to take revenge on a player that beat them and to report them for cheating, only for nothing to happen, probably because ZOS didn't see any evidence of it. Then the reporting player goes in zone chat or the forums and cries that "ZOS does nothing against cheaters".

We can be sure that some players do cheat because there will always be people that want to cheat if it's possible, and it's probably not possible to make any game immune to cheats. I'd bet money that the the number of players that cheat is far outweighed by the number of players that get reported for cheating, though.