PVP patch notes change from a pvp player

cuddles_with_wroble

so this is just my version of what i would do to maybe help balance out the game for the new patch. lmk what you think should be changed or if you have anything else that i maybe didnt think of!

gariondavey

Some good proposals in here

cuddles_with_wroble

gariondavey wrote: »

Some good proposals in here

TY!

Mr_Stach

I typed this up but the Forums Formatting Sucks. So here's a screenshot instead so you get all the nice colors and indents

cuddles_with_wroble

gariondavey wrote: »

Some good proposals in here

TY!

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I typed this up but the Forums Formatting Sucks. So here's a screenshot instead so you get all the nice colors and indents

i love this! i dont play warden much so ty so much for your insight<3

Smokehit

I don’t understand how anyone could say molten whip is over performing. Maybe it’s a pve issue. I primarily pvp so I can’t weigh in much on pve. I have one of every class, and molten whip performs similarly to Crystal frag’s and assassins scourge. Primary difference between them is molten whip is close range only & you get to keep the buff until the whip is successful(higher risk higher reward). It’s required to use 3 ardent flame skills in melee range prior to benefiting from 1 max charged molten whip. Magdk do not have an execute. The burst from a molten whip is the only true source of burst damage on magdk aside from ultimates. Max molten whip only occur ever 4-6 seconds due to the amount of time to cast the abilities that charge whip not to mention in combat situations where stunning or at least timing the whip in order kill an enemy before they heal up is required. I agree the dk does over perform currently but I think small adjustments is the answer. Hit the sustain first then observe how it impacts the class. If it isn’t enough, make another small adjustment. Pursuing several adjustments that include reduced sustain and reduced damage just create new imbalances. I think burning embers should also heal for 75% of the damage done prior to over adjusting to 50%. Remember if you reduce sustain, damage will go down as stat investments will adjust for sufficient sustain. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

Didgerion

Smokehit wrote: »

I don’t understand how anyone could say molten whip is over performing. Maybe it’s a pve issue. I primarily pvp so I can’t weigh in much on pve. I have one of every class, and molten whip performs similarly to Crystal frag’s and assassins scourge. Primary difference between them is molten whip is close range only & you get to keep the buff until the whip is successful(higher risk higher reward). It’s required to use 3 ardent flame skills in melee range prior to benefiting from 1 max charged molten whip. Magdk do not have an execute. The burst from a molten whip is the only true source of burst damage on magdk aside from ultimates. Max molten whip only occur ever 4-6 seconds due to the amount of time to cast the abilities that charge whip not to mention in combat situations where stunning or at least timing the whip in order kill an enemy before they heal up is required. I agree the dk does over perform currently but I think small adjustments is the answer. Hit the sustain first then observe how it impacts the class. If it isn’t enough, make another small adjustment. Pursuing several adjustments that include reduced sustain and reduced damage just create new imbalances. I think burning embers should also heal for 75% of the damage done prior to over adjusting to 50%. Remember if you reduce sustain, damage will go down as stat investments will adjust for sufficient sustain. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

DKs have lots of tools to facilitate that whip buff. All the skills you say you need to cast them in order to proc the whip are not in vain. They are roots and stuns that the enemy player has to deal with. And lets not forget leap+whip combo.
I've seen up to 14k whip damage on my death recaps. The only other skill that compares to that is the NB's assassins scourge but that skill is not a spammable one, you need to cast it and charge it. See the beauty of whip is that it is a 2 in 1 skill, it is a cheap spammable and a powerful proc as well, it simply overperforms and we see that reflected in the upcoming nerfs.

cuddles_with_wroble

Smokehit wrote: »

I don’t understand how anyone could say molten whip is over performing. Maybe it’s a pve issue. I primarily pvp so I can’t weigh in much on pve. I have one of every class, and molten whip performs similarly to Crystal frag’s and assassins scourge. Primary difference between them is molten whip is close range only & you get to keep the buff until the whip is successful(higher risk higher reward). It’s required to use 3 ardent flame skills in melee range prior to benefiting from 1 max charged molten whip. Magdk do not have an execute. The burst from a molten whip is the only true source of burst damage on magdk aside from ultimates. Max molten whip only occur ever 4-6 seconds due to the amount of time to cast the abilities that charge whip not to mention in combat situations where stunning or at least timing the whip in order kill an enemy before they heal up is required. I agree the dk does over perform currently but I think small adjustments is the answer. Hit the sustain first then observe how it impacts the class. If it isn’t enough, make another small adjustment. Pursuing several adjustments that include reduced sustain and reduced damage just create new imbalances. I think burning embers should also heal for 75% of the damage done prior to over adjusting to 50%. Remember if you reduce sustain, damage will go down as stat investments will adjust for sufficient sustain. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

molten whips from good players often hit me for 10-12k easilly while the dks are in tanky sets with low spell damage (3-4k). the breath is a super viable spammable as it hits super hard and is very easy to spam to stack up your whip. another viable way to stack it is flames of oblivion which go off right when you cast it so thats an ez 5-6k spammable as well. on top of massive dot damage and corrosive dk currently has some of the highest burst in the game while maintaining higher dot pressure than any other class. not to mention insane cc incredible map control with talons and super high healing. the class is far stronger than any of the other classes. their damage is often too high to heal thru or you end up on your back bar blocking and healing the entire fight and then they can cc thru block pop corrosive and your most likely dead. the sustain nerfs currently on the pts do nothing as ulti gen is so high on the class it doesnt matter ive changed nothing about my build and my sustain feels fine. currently with 3 reduced mag cost glyphs and ulti pots even on the pts after the nerfs sustain is still more than fine. mag dk is also the one class that can kill people with no cc and very easily again if you pop corrosive it really doesnt matter if their stunned or not just 3 breaths into a whip can kill most people you really only have to cc them if their blocking and healing. their healing is fine and their sustain is fine even if left untouched its their damage thats the issue and the fact that they dont have to invest anything in it to achieve insane damage numbers. again mag dk can run around with 3k spell damage and 0 pen and do the same amount of damage as a magplar that has almost 9k spell damage.

xDeusEJRx

Smokehit wrote: »

I don’t understand how anyone could say molten whip is over performing. Maybe it’s a pve issue. I primarily pvp so I can’t weigh in much on pve. I have one of every class, and molten whip performs similarly to Crystal frag’s and assassins scourge. Primary difference between them is molten whip is close range only & you get to keep the buff until the whip is successful(higher risk higher reward). It’s required to use 3 ardent flame skills in melee range prior to benefiting from 1 max charged molten whip. Magdk do not have an execute. The burst from a molten whip is the only true source of burst damage on magdk aside from ultimates. Max molten whip only occur ever 4-6 seconds due to the amount of time to cast the abilities that charge whip not to mention in combat situations where stunning or at least timing the whip in order kill an enemy before they heal up is required. I agree the dk does over perform currently but I think small adjustments is the answer. Hit the sustain first then observe how it impacts the class. If it isn’t enough, make another small adjustment. Pursuing several adjustments that include reduced sustain and reduced damage just create new imbalances. I think burning embers should also heal for 75% of the damage done prior to over adjusting to 50%. Remember if you reduce sustain, damage will go down as stat investments will adjust for sufficient sustain. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

Main problem with molten whip is the buffed whip doesn't go away after casting it, only after it hits a target. A similar ability to compare to is the nightblade's Grim Focus, the bow disappears after being casted and has to be rebuilt up, but after casting it, whether it hits or not, it's gone. It's not the same for DK's molten whip, if it misses they keep the buff and can keep going for buffed whip until it finally lands. Combined with a corrosive active they will more than likely put someone down. IMO I think whip needs to lose the stacks once you cast it and not when it lands on target

Vevvev

I like the fact the whip doesn't lose it's stacks till it lands, however.... if it's as insanely powerful as people say it is (I'm a DK so a bit biased and I've been on and off lately for the past month) they should nerf the max damage.

At full stacks it should be sitting at like.... 75% extra damage instead of the 99% extra damage it currently is.

Mr_Stach

Vevvev wrote: »

I like the fact the whip doesn't lose it's stacks till it lands, however.... if it's as insanely powerful as people say it is (I'm a DK so a bit biased and I've been on and off lately for the past month) they should nerf the max damage.

At full stacks it should be sitting at like.... 75% extra damage instead of the 99% extra damage it currently is.

I think they should increase the stacks but lower the damage of each stack so it takes longer to get to that big hit.

xDeusEJRx

Vevvev wrote: »

I like the fact the whip doesn't lose it's stacks till it lands, however.... if it's as insanely powerful as people say it is (I'm a DK so a bit biased and I've been on and off lately for the past month) they should nerf the max damage.

At full stacks it should be sitting at like.... 75% extra damage instead of the 99% extra damage it currently is.

I don't think the damage should be nerfed at all, I think it's in line with other big burst abilities, but not losing stacks after cast is just kinda stupid. I play DK too but it's kinda dumb how I can anticipate a whip incoming and dodge it but a DK in corrosive can just spam whip continually with corrossive up until it hits me for full damage while their corrosive is up. Just forget your rotation and spam whip until it lands before your corrosive buff drops. I think it should lose the stacks after casted and not when it hits a target

Vevvev

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I like the fact the whip doesn't lose it's stacks till it lands, however.... if it's as insanely powerful as people say it is (I'm a DK so a bit biased and I've been on and off lately for the past month) they should nerf the max damage.

At full stacks it should be sitting at like.... 75% extra damage instead of the 99% extra damage it currently is.

I think they should increase the stacks but lower the damage of each stack so it takes longer to get to that big hit.

Also a good idea. Maybe 5?

Mr_Stach

Vevvev wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I like the fact the whip doesn't lose it's stacks till it lands, however.... if it's as insanely powerful as people say it is (I'm a DK so a bit biased and I've been on and off lately for the past month) they should nerf the max damage.

At full stacks it should be sitting at like.... 75% extra damage instead of the 99% extra damage it currently is.

I think they should increase the stacks but lower the damage of each stack so it takes longer to get to that big hit.

Also a good idea. Maybe 5?

Yeah if they switched it to 5 Stacks, +20% Per Stack You'd get up to that +100%, and drop that weapon/spell damage to 45, you'd get to a similar place.

Personally though, Whip hits so hard because of it double dipping with the weapon/spell Damage AND the Increased Lash Damage.I think if they made the weapon/spell damage to apply to other abilities and not the Lash Damage it would be much more balanced.

Smokehit

DKs have lots of tools to facilitate that whip buff. All the skills you say you need to cast them in order to proc the whip are not in vain. They are roots and stuns that the enemy player has to deal with. And lets not forget leap+whip combo.
I've seen up to 14k whip damage on my death recaps. The only other skill that compares to that is the NB's assassins scourge but that skill is not a spammable one, you need to cast it and charge it. See the beauty of whip is that it is a 2 in 1 skill, it is a cheap spammable and a powerful proc as well, it simply overperforms and we see that reflected in the upcoming nerfs.[/quote]

None of the ardent flame abilities are CC except the chain grab that is not worth the ability slot. Flame breath, flames of oblivion, burning embers are in the typical rotation before using a fully charged molten whip. Shattering rocks/fossilize, talons are not ardent flame abilities & do not empower the molten whip. I would concede at making the charges expire after a hit or miss if the ability wasn't melee range. Possibly remove a charge for each missing attempt to weaken it for each miss to remedy the corrosive /whip spammers.

Plus the major cancer in pvp currently aside from obvious server/connection issues is the necro aoe grab & kill everyone proc set combo that is currently the only combo i see in IC & Cyro battles.

I have seen 10-14k assassin scourge & crystal frag hits in pvp all the time. Templars hit smaller hits but a ton of burst overall. Frags are super cheap, & can be procced almost back to back for big hits with an execute that will trigger as soon as in the health range. Almost every class has high burst potential if you learn how to play the class to it's potential. Templar can bubble/purify/topple/ult/jabs - dead. Nightblade could stealth and light attack to build scourge up, then HA/surprise attack/ ult/scourge- dead. Sorc can curse, destro spam for frags until execute/meteor/streak/frag - dead(possibly overkill). mag dk does ardent skills to charge whips & cc's then wait for proper timing for a 3 ardents hold for charge whip/leap/whip. The point is most classes have similar burst. NB can do it from stealth, sorc from range, & the templars & dk typically in your face.

How the hell is anyone going to win/lose if there aren't burst damage hits like this. Healing is already overtuned so unless they change that across the board for all classes, then its not nerfing that is needed. Also take a look at your own character. If you're getting steam rolled, you gotta take a hard look at your build & your ability bars. Sometimes the problem is not the game, but the build &/or player.