Can/should the base game provinces be updated in a DLC; if so how?

Mascen

Someone suggested adding Falinesti in a future update, and it got me thinking about the how the zones that launched with ESO over 8 years ago are almost entirely the same. So much like the ancestral motifs, should the zones themselves be updated in a chapter or DLC?

I think yes and the opportunity could be used to address long standing issues but also acknowleldge that it would be hard for ZOS to pull off since it would be difficult to sell to players and complicated to separate those who do and dont buy the update.

But what does everyone else think?

drsalvation

Adding Falinesti would most likely be on another region or dlc zone, like when they added vvardenfell to morrowind or solitude on the skyrim region.

I think having dynamic decorations on major cities to represent in-game events (or real life events) other than just the people around the impresario would be a good idea. It would make the game events feel like they're actually part of the game's world and not just something that happens.

I don't think there could be any new additions to vanilla zones considering all the stuff that's happening (and never stops happening because a live service doesn't really have any sort of impactful continuation, like the dolmen anchors will never stop dropping even after defeataing molag bal TWICE), but the dragons event is intriguing.

I simply don't think vanilla zones have any legroom to add new content or cities without adding things to do, vanilla quests will probably remain untouched, so it's not like anything would push the player to explore the new cities, they'd just be there being wasted. So as I said, they'll keep adding new cities in new regions as dlc.

AcadianPaladin

I'd like to see Bleakrock repaired after you do the quest. It has the potential to be a great little town.

I'd like to see the Undaunted double the number of daily delves that Bolgrul chooses from (from 15 to 30).

I'd like to see WB dailies in the basic zones. Perhaps a new questgiver at the Undaunted enclaves that chooses a WB to go kill from among the alliance zones.

Marginis

Honestly, it wouldn't take much for me. Just a graphics pass, maybe some new music (honestly just giving bards a few songs to loop through, instead of the same red diamond drone and nothing else), and a bit more variety in voice lines (I have heard about Master Semiral's midden heap more times than I'd care to list), would be a WELCOME update to the base game areas. A lot of newer content could even be repurposed, ie. Summerset music added to the ambient music queue for Auridon.

Not a lot has to change just to refresh old areas. Just someone else to throw in the stocks other than Finedrin day after day.

merpins

I could see a DLC that adds more content and updates old content. First, any old content and visual updates to the old zones would definitely be free. You can't paywall the base game zones behind a DLC or free-to-play players won't be able to play. It would just unlock the visibility of quests that are added, and allow certain things to drop I'd imagine. Updated and new world bosses, more quests, a new main quest in each zone that is separate from the overarching main quest of the faction the zone is within (so each zone would have its own, self contained, main quest and issue that needs solving). New mythics that can be found in each zone, new sets in each zone, new dailies to do. Possibly the addition of veteran overland, huh..? Maybe.

Oh! And maybe some restructuring of some of the base game towns to make them more likely to be used as player-hubs. Right now, it's just Deshan, Grahtwood, Wayrest, and Rawl'kha (and to some extent Craglorn) that are used most by players as bases and main hubs, but that's just due to the conveniences of these places. Either it's because it's the main zone of a faction, or like in the case of Rawlkha, the town is small and has basically all the amenities like a convenient bank, crafting stations, and writ turn in area in a convenient layout.

But that's all just wishful thinking. ZoS has made it clear in the past that they have no plans on updating old PVE content like base-game until the entire map of Tamriel is filled in with content. So I wouldn't expect this anytime soon.

Marginis

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

I could see a DLC that adds more content and updates old content. First, any old content and visual updates to the old zones would definitely be free. You can't paywall the base game zones behind a DLC or free-to-play players won't be able to play. It would just unlock the visibility of quests that are added, and allow certain things to drop I'd imagine. Updated and new world bosses, more quests, a new main quest in each zone that is separate from the overarching main quest of the faction the zone is within (so each zone would have its own, self contained, main quest and issue that needs solving). New mythics that can be found in each zone, new sets in each zone, new dailies to do. Possibly the addition of veteran overland, huh..? Maybe.

Oh! And maybe some restructuring of some of the base game towns to make them more likely to be used as player-hubs. Right now, it's just Deshan, Grahtwood, Wayrest, and Rawl'kha (and to some extent Craglorn) that are used most by players as bases and main hubs, but that's just due to the conveniences of these places. Either it's because it's the main zone of a faction, or like in the case of Rawlkha, the town is small and has basically all the amenities like a convenient bank, crafting stations, and writ turn in area in a convenient layout.

But that's all just wishful thinking. ZoS has made it clear in the past that they have no plans on updating old PVE content like base-game until the entire map of Tamriel is filled in with content. So I wouldn't expect this anytime soon.

Perhaps not veteran overland - that already existed pre-One Tamriel. And honestly, uniting players from across levels and factions was a very good move, in my opinion. Splitting players up is probably the opposite direction of where we should go.

Mascen

drsalvation wrote: »

Adding Falinesti would most likely be on another region or dlc zone, like when they added vvardenfell to morrowind or solitude on the skyrim region.

I think having dynamic decorations on major cities to represent in-game events (or real life events) other than just the people around the impresario would be a good idea. It would make the game events feel like they're actually part of the game's world and not just something that happens.

I don't think there could be any new additions to vanilla zones considering all the stuff that's happening (and never stops happening because a live service doesn't really have any sort of impactful continuation, like the dolmen anchors will never stop dropping even after defeataing molag bal TWICE), but the dragons event is intriguing.

I simply don't think vanilla zones have any legroom to add new content or cities without adding things to do, vanilla quests will probably remain untouched, so it's not like anything would push the player to explore the new cities, they'd just be there being wasted. So as I said, they'll keep adding new cities in new regions as dlc.

You literally cannot add Falinesti as a separate zone because its tied to Valenwood.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Mascen wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

Adding Falinesti would most likely be on another region or dlc zone, like when they added vvardenfell to morrowind or solitude on the skyrim region.

I think having dynamic decorations on major cities to represent in-game events (or real life events) other than just the people around the impresario would be a good idea. It would make the game events feel like they're actually part of the game's world and not just something that happens.

I don't think there could be any new additions to vanilla zones considering all the stuff that's happening (and never stops happening because a live service doesn't really have any sort of impactful continuation, like the dolmen anchors will never stop dropping even after defeataing molag bal TWICE), but the dragons event is intriguing.

I simply don't think vanilla zones have any legroom to add new content or cities without adding things to do, vanilla quests will probably remain untouched, so it's not like anything would push the player to explore the new cities, they'd just be there being wasted. So as I said, they'll keep adding new cities in new regions as dlc.

You literally cannot add Falinesti as a separate zone because its tied to Valenwood.

You could
As the major hub of where ever it disapeared to

Jim_Pipp

I wish every update they would revamp one base game zone. Using the improved assets from previous DLC to break up the slightly monotonous or homogenous look of people and places.

Give some NPC's a makeover by changing their costumes, use some of the new hairstyles, etc. Race change a few khajiit NPC's to the different furstocks we met in Elsweyr, and maybe change some base-game NPC's visually to imply they are from factions in other DLC's. Base game overuses a limited number of enemy types, so swap in a few to show the expanded bestiary, e.g. some of the newer Maomer types joining their boring base game brethren. This will make it feel more like an interconnected world than a series of zones.

The same goes for DLC furnishings, pop a few in lore-friendly places, like a tree from Summerset in the garden area of Vukhel guard. Some jewelry boxes in bedrooms, some imported goods around merchants, etc.

These are the "easy" improvements that take time but won't add to the size of the game. I'd love a more thorough set of improvements, updating old textures, each zone having its own specific dailies and a collect-the-pieces quest, and adding more town features to the many settlements we save and never return to (e.g. Dune in Reaper's March).

Amottica

I think it would be better to have new zones than rework the old zones and sell them separately.

Kalfis

The base game is still the best content ESO has to offer imo, so nope!

Kalle_Demos

When ESVI eventually releases I would hope that, if necessary, ESO would update any new provinces featured. As we know, the ES single players games have yet to explore every territory in detail. ESO has done a good job of bringing unexplored provinces to life and in line with what's already been featured in the single player games. However should Beth take a different direction in any of them I believe that vision should take precedence and ESO adjust for consistency sake.

merpins

Marginis wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

I could see a DLC that adds more content and updates old content. First, any old content and visual updates to the old zones would definitely be free. You can't paywall the base game zones behind a DLC or free-to-play players won't be able to play. It would just unlock the visibility of quests that are added, and allow certain things to drop I'd imagine. Updated and new world bosses, more quests, a new main quest in each zone that is separate from the overarching main quest of the faction the zone is within (so each zone would have its own, self contained, main quest and issue that needs solving). New mythics that can be found in each zone, new sets in each zone, new dailies to do. Possibly the addition of veteran overland, huh..? Maybe.

Oh! And maybe some restructuring of some of the base game towns to make them more likely to be used as player-hubs. Right now, it's just Deshan, Grahtwood, Wayrest, and Rawl'kha (and to some extent Craglorn) that are used most by players as bases and main hubs, but that's just due to the conveniences of these places. Either it's because it's the main zone of a faction, or like in the case of Rawlkha, the town is small and has basically all the amenities like a convenient bank, crafting stations, and writ turn in area in a convenient layout.

But that's all just wishful thinking. ZoS has made it clear in the past that they have no plans on updating old PVE content like base-game until the entire map of Tamriel is filled in with content. So I wouldn't expect this anytime soon.

Perhaps not veteran overland - that already existed pre-One Tamriel. And honestly, uniting players from across levels and factions was a very good move, in my opinion. Splitting players up is probably the opposite direction of where we should go.

I mean that's kind of disingenuous. Pre One Tamriel, the game was leveled like all other MMOs. It's not a game mode, and more of a gating system so you know where you're supposed to be leveling so you don't do things out of sequence. A normal MMO mechanic. I, too, love the fact that the game is no longer like that. It makes this game feel more like an elder scrolls experience when you can go anywhere whenever you want. It didn't really split the player base before, it just went against the ideology of the franchise, so they changed it to be more in line with that.

As for a veteran overland idea, I mean I don't think it'll split the playerbase at all since ZoS has the tools to make it so that doesn't happen: those issues can easily be solved with instancing. The main issue here is roads and towns being less populous, but it also ruins immersion when there are 30 players roaming through a delve. Instancing solves all these problems.

Then there's the argument of the developers could use their time on something more productive. You know. Like the card game. I don't think this argument works anymore. You know. Because of the card game.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Mascen wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

Adding Falinesti would most likely be on another region or dlc zone, like when they added vvardenfell to morrowind or solitude on the skyrim region.

I think having dynamic decorations on major cities to represent in-game events (or real life events) other than just the people around the impresario would be a good idea. It would make the game events feel like they're actually part of the game's world and not just something that happens.

I don't think there could be any new additions to vanilla zones considering all the stuff that's happening (and never stops happening because a live service doesn't really have any sort of impactful continuation, like the dolmen anchors will never stop dropping even after defeataing molag bal TWICE), but the dragons event is intriguing.

I simply don't think vanilla zones have any legroom to add new content or cities without adding things to do, vanilla quests will probably remain untouched, so it's not like anything would push the player to explore the new cities, they'd just be there being wasted. So as I said, they'll keep adding new cities in new regions as dlc.

You literally cannot add Falinesti as a separate zone because its tied to Valenwood.

You could
As the major hub of where ever it disapeared to

It probably ended up in Fangorn Forest somewhere ....

Ratzkifal

Some of the base game zones definitely do not live up to the expectations. Valenwood for example doesn't look nearly dense enough and there should be walking trees there of which Falinesti was only one of. Even ESO's own lore says so, stating that the Eldentree in Elden Root is the only Grahtoak that doesn't move because of what Anumaril did to it.

Simply looking at chapter zones and comparing them to base game zones shows just how much wasted potential could be realized if every single base game zone got the attention of a chapter of that same size.

But the problem is, how would you monetize this? You cannot expect people to pay for Stonefalls again after they've already had Stonefalls for years. That's why ZOS hasn't already done this. They would rather fill in the blank spaces of the map first before they revisit older content or go beyond Tamriel, which makes sense.
It's just sad for Bosmer and Bretons (even though they found a way for them now) to have most of their territory already added to the base game, making chapter deep-dives into their culture quite difficult.
The Bosmer chapter will likely be Falinesti in whatever place it has been transported to, but whether that is actually enough is another question.

Sjestenka

I still believe ZOS have to at some point implement underwater content. Every zone has rivers and such. Even the tusking desert of Alik'r got sea shores. Make diving, make boats. So much could be done.. Up to the naval battles for pvp folks, no? Such upgrades would affect every base game zone. Might drop in high res textures while at it.. I would agree that selling water as DLC would raise brows but surely there's enough potential to make coin here by other means. Sell skins for boats, swimming suits (what? of cource!), or heck, rideable dolphins. Busy players means happy players, happy players means happy upper management <З

Mascen

@Dark_Lord_Kuro
It would be a major deus ex rectum on the lore if it would be a separate zone because Falinesti is tied direcly to the green as the last walking tree IIRC. Its not like a realm of oblivion, the Clockwork City or even the Moonlight path which is tied to Azura via the sands beyond the stars.

@MovesLikeJaguar
Yeah idk what they were thinking with the card game either but if ive learned anything about the video game development process its that you have to realize the end result of a DLC is the product of months or years of time. Most likely the ZOS higher ups saw things like Hearthstone, Gwent, and others and wanted to emulate that.

The other thing I've learned is that besides being aggressively vocal, it helps to play the devils advocate by understanding and appealing to the devs needs and wants. Those who can propose reasonable, lucrative, and cost saving ideas tend to get listened to more. Maybe ZOS does what they want but heres to hoping a mod reads this thread.

@Kalfis
All the more reason for the base game zones getting a graphical and/or other update at the very least. After all, if the base game is the window through which new and F2Pers are enticed, shouldn't it be improved to do a better job?

@Amottica
The problem is eventually ZOS will run out of zones. High Isle is partly born out of the fact that almost the entirety of High Rock was done in the base game and Orsinium finished it off with Wrothgar. As things stand, the only areas left on Tamriel they could add onto are eastern Blackmarsh, central Skyrim, Colovian Skingrad, a sliver of central Elsweyr, the Telvanni peninsula of eastern Morrowind (which a friend of proposed a DLC idea for ill make another thread about), and central/eastern Hammerfell which most likely will be avoided seeing as how the majority of bets and leaks point to Hammerfell as being the location of TES6.

Point is, the options ZOS has left look very very repetitive from a creative point of view. And many people have been clamoring for both Breton and Wood Elf themed updates for a while.

@Ratzkifal
Figuring out the problems of implementing this is half the reason I made this thread. The idea being in theory if ZOS can manage to add new dungeons every year in base game and older DLC zones like the Silver Rose in Daggerfall or Coral Aerie in Alinor then surely we can extend that further and come up with ideas and proposals that are both appealing and lucrative for ZOS while being fair and reasonable to new players and those that don't/can't buy the DLC.

Rex-Umbra

The majority of the players time is spent in base game zones. Capital cities and other major hubs. They should be a priority for a uplift.

Mascen

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

The majority of the players time is spent in base game zones. Capital cities and other major hubs. They should be a priority for a uplift.

The issue of capitals is partly a whole other issue in regards to guild traders. But yes the capitals could use updated furnishings, NPC models, and dialogue/songs among other things.

noblecron

I'd love to see the entire base game updated to current expansion standards. Even furnishings and buildings have better textures than base game. I'd also love to see them fix lore errors such as the npc in Elden Root talking about how house redoran own Ald Ruhn when it's currently ashlander territory

BretonMage

I like the base game as is. The graphics could definitely be updated though, there’s quite an obvious discrepancy in texture quality between base game and DLC content, particularly for furnishings and outfits.

I wouldn't mind seeing just a few new WBs with DLC-level difficulty, maybe some new random world encounters, or the occasional new minor quest here and there, maybe involving a character from a completed DLC quest... though to be honest, the only thing that would really excite me would still be improved graphics.

xXSilverDragonXx

I'd much rather then bring in new content then mess around with older content. There are still plenty of spots on the map that are empty as well as the otherworldly outer ring.

I really would like to visit dwarven realm on that outer ring and maybe meet a few dwarves that survived whatever happened. I would truly find that something worth getting into. Who didn't love finding out more about the snow elves? Stuff like that is pure gold.

Mascen

BretonMage wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing just a few new WBs with DLC-level difficulty, maybe some new random world encounters, or the occasional new minor quest here and there, maybe involving a character from a completed DLC quest...

Thats sort of what i imagine a starting point for fleshing things out. Like in regards to the current Legacy of the Bretons chapter, maybe ZOS coud do something with that mountainous chunk of land south of Daggerfall/southwest of Daggerfall Overlook. Maybe a landslide reveals a long lost Ayleid or Nedic ruin complex or something. Use a mausoleum in Cath Bedraud as a new delve. Point is theres room for it, hard part is balancing it out into something fair and feasable.

Deter1UK

It seems to me that the Guilds in the lesser towns/cities are as dead as a doornail

Would it be possible to have some local Dailies issued there to deal with issues in the immediate areas?

It would at least feel that the guild houses had some purpose and give you a reason to pop in when passing to see what's cooking?

Perhaps a couple of changing bounty boards like the ones in the Thieves Guild would do it?

Mascen

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

I'd much rather then bring in new content then mess around with older content. There are still plenty of spots on the map that are empty as well as the otherworldly outer ring.

I really would like to visit dwarven realm on that outer ring and maybe meet a few dwarves that survived whatever happened. I would truly find that something worth getting into. Who didn't love finding out more about the snow elves? Stuff like that is pure gold.

Again problem is as I've explained above, most of the remaining places ZOS could add new zones are either in Hammerfell or the Ebonheart Pact. Nords and Argonians get tiresome quickly after Greymoor, Murkmire and Blackwood, and odds are ZOS is holding back on Hammerfell because that's where TES6 will be set.

@Deter1UK
Yeah guild traders are a whole other can of worms better people than me have brought up for years now. If you want my two cents though, just move some of the traders in less popular zones such as Marbruk or Morkuldin to right in front of/around the wayshrine. It's the reason why Rawl'Kha was so popular.

Also get rid of the lone middle of nowhere traders and just plop them in the zone hub town with the others.

Kesstryl

The only way this could be implemented is having new quests added on top of the base game quests so free players are not locked out of content. They still get the base game experience, and a DLC adds new quests and phased instances that can't be seen in base zones. I'd certainly like to see Castle Ravenwatch updated if an alt did both the Rivenspire main quest and the whole Dark Heart of Skyrim story arc so that Gwendis is not forever mourning the loss of Verandis sitting on her coffin and Fennorian is actually hanging out in the library, but that would probably make moot a very minor update coming in a new festival where we hear in a conversation about how they got on after Markarth. Still, who wouldn't want to visit a phased Castle Ravenwatch and see this? I'm sure there are other things that could be added to base game zones from completed chapters that would phase in something new that players see from doing questlines.

Amottica

I think we all know there is limited room on the map. That’s not a good justification for revamping and selling us the same zones a second time. There are probably better options.

licenturion

I would love this.

Although I think implementing the detailed rocks and denser new vegetation they use since the first DLC would do a lot for the world without having to remake or restructure everything.

Those are the biggest offenders in making the base zones look very very old.

Ratzkifal

Mascen wrote: »

[...]
Figuring out the problems of implementing this is half the reason I made this thread. The idea being in theory if ZOS can manage to add new dungeons every year in base game and older DLC zones like the Silver Rose in Daggerfall or Coral Aerie in Alinor then surely we can extend that further and come up with ideas and proposals that are both appealing and lucrative for ZOS while being fair and reasonable to new players and those that don't/can't buy the DLC.

WoW had a decent solution for this. They have these time keeping dragons and in newer versions of older zones you'd be able to talk to one of these to visit the past version of that zone, which is sort of essential especially if current content builds on top of what happened in that zone previously.
From what I can tell ZOS would be equally unwilling to simply delete older content from the game so they'd have to be taking a similar route to what the WoW devs took. The question is just, how can they justify it? If the game actually was set during a dragonbreak, this sort of paradox of having two versions of the same zone simultaneously would be no issue at all, but the game is very clearly not happening during a dragonbreak which makes it sort of difficult. Perhaps they'll keep it purely mechanical with no lore justification at all - I think I would prefer that.
The alternative would be to have the previous content in that zone be mandatory before you can proceed to the newer content, but that goes against ZOS' principle of letting new players jump into the most recent content immediately, and I agree, but I also think that the game's story telling is suffering from sequence breaking already so perhaps that is simply something we have to accept moving forward.

Mascen

@Kesstryl
Ah finally something with a bit more substance. It depends because if you think about it ZOS has already implemented retrofitting on older base zones with both Jewelery stations at set crafting locations and with the antiquities system to a lesser extent via the scrying search zone.

To that end I think there would have to be some stuff that new and F2P players would be exposed to if implemented. Mostly NPCs for dialogue and overland enemies that could be killed. The key would be gatekeeping the quests and loot so that you could only get the stuff added in the DLC and access the DLC subzones like delves, trials, crafting locations, etc if you've bought it. So lets say theres an Akaviri invasion off the northwest coast near the Daggerfall lighthouse and i don't have the DLC. Yeah I can go there and kill some overland samurai but they wouldn't drop anything.

Mascen

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Mascen wrote: »

[...]
Figuring out the problems of implementing this is half the reason I made this thread. The idea being in theory if ZOS can manage to add new dungeons every year in base game and older DLC zones like the Silver Rose in Daggerfall or Coral Aerie in Alinor then surely we can extend that further and come up with ideas and proposals that are both appealing and lucrative for ZOS while being fair and reasonable to new players and those that don't/can't buy the DLC.

WoW had a decent solution for this. They have these time keeping dragons and in newer versions of older zones you'd be able to talk to one of these to visit the past version of that zone, which is sort of essential especially if current content builds on top of what happened in that zone previously.
From what I can tell ZOS would be equally unwilling to simply delete older content from the game so they'd have to be taking a similar route to what the WoW devs took. The question is just, how can they justify it? If the game actually was set during a dragonbreak, this sort of paradox of having two versions of the same zone simultaneously would be no issue at all, but the game is very clearly not happening during a dragonbreak which makes it sort of difficult. Perhaps they'll keep it purely mechanical with no lore justification at all - I think I would prefer that.
The alternative would be to have the previous content in that zone be mandatory before you can proceed to the newer content, but that goes against ZOS' principle of letting new players jump into the most recent content immediately, and I agree, but I also think that the game's story telling is suffering from sequence breaking already so perhaps that is simply something we have to accept moving forward.

Yeah throwing in a random mini dragon break would be a total deus ex rectum and break the lore in so many ways. So yeah probably no lore explanation. But then again i did various prologue quests out of order no problem. All that changed is it didnt match up chronologically since i finished Markarth before I did Southern Elsweyr.

I think maybe the best way to go about it is to be very thorough on preventing overlap by utilizing as much original unused space as possible while also being very careful in the parts where overlap is unavoidable. To that end its also just another good reason to update the base zones graphics and layouts. Get rid of some nameless hill, add a road for a shortcut, move some guild traders closer to a wayshrine, hell maybe even move a wayshrine to a more central location in the zone hub town.