Nerf pvp guards

TechMaybeHic

ncallstar88 wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

If you can't handle npc guards in Cyrodiil, there's no way you're going to beat players.

The problem doesn't sound like guards being too strong, but your setup not being strong enough.

I actually been 1vx if for years and if you read what I said if a guard shows up while I’m 1vxing I’m prob gonna die to that guard not a player

It's not really an old trick to use gaurds to an advantage. Generally soloers have flipped a resource flag to have the gaurds to help even the numbers when enemies come. If they come with enough to flip the flag back without you being able to stop it, it's tower hump time where the gaurds don't come into play and LOS keeps you from being hit by everyone. Or run

Maybe just pick your engagement more carefully?

magnus01

so you want to solo group content

not once have i seen groups of 10 or more struggle to wipe out all guards in seconds and i mean seconds within attacking a scroll area i mean they are weak as all hell and mostly pointless

id say buff them if anything the last time i played about 3 months ago they were nothing more then a small disruption

Gundug

I would think a good PVP build would have no trouble with resource guards, considering I have never had any difficulty dealing with them alone running pretty basic solo PVE setups. I’ll grant that they do have pretty strong healing and CCs, but it’s not difficult to burn key targets down in order within seconds. I always just run right into the tower and deal with whatever follows without having to deal with the flag guards and their skill spam, then clear the tower guard, then nuke the remaining four flag guards.

jaws343

Ipsius wrote: »

If you can't handle npc guards in Cyrodiil, there's no way you're going to beat players.

The problem doesn't sound like guards being too strong, but your setup not being strong enough.

Eh, that's kind of not true though.

Guards have what, like 60-80K HP (not entirely sure the actual number). They required sustained DPS to take down due to their healing abilities, alongside having to avoid negates, manage healing, etc. Most pvp builds are burst oriented and designed to take down players with like 30K hp on average.

My PVE build wipes the floor with guards but is pretty trash against players. My PVP build wipes the floor with players but requires me to try to 1v1 resource guards.

ob1ken0bi

Just let NPC guards set up and use anti-Siege against attackers

McTaterskins

I'm willing to bet if they updated the NPC's in Cyro/IC to have their class abilities match current ones, instead of mechanics from ages ago, they would not only be less annoying, but also not cause as many desync and performance issues upon entering an area where they are in the vicinity

They operate under whole other statistical barriers. That has to be taxing on memory and server calculations.

NordSwordnBoard

Its not the guards so much as the way their skills work in the lag. The fire dots, negates and chains alone aren't bad, but when they all go at the same time with desynch its rough. One resource you roll up, drop ulti and smash the guards real quick. The next resource guards negate & pull you or make it take way longer than the first. The tower mage first formula works, but I get lazy or impatient and that's on me.
Another case of PB making short work of things without much thought or effort. Clearing flags is a joke with that set, with added bonus of blowing up any players near the guard getting killed.

acastanza_ESO

McTaterskins wrote: »

I'm willing to bet if they updated the NPC's in Cyro/IC to have their class abilities match current ones, instead of mechanics from ages ago, they would not only be less annoying, but also not cause as many desync and performance issues upon entering an area where they are in the vicinity

They operate under whole other statistical barriers. That has to be taxing on memory and server calculations.

Completely agree. NPC guards in Cyrodiil should reflect the player abilities of the "class" they're supposed to be.

That said, as a Sorc main, I can still solo resources in a reasonable amount of time. Sure, I might have to run an immobilize in addition to Streak and do a little tower humping to pull the DK guards away from the healers to pull it off but I'm a Sorc, if we stand still we die.

McTaterskins

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

That said, as a Sorc main, I can still solo resources in a reasonable amount of time. Sure, I might have to run an immobilize in addition to Streak and do a little tower humping to pull the DK guards away from the healers to pull it off but I'm a Sorc, if we stand still we die.

For sure. I don't particularly have any toons that aren't able to take a resource on their own. Given strategy based on build etc.

It's just far more tedious and annoying than it needs to be. I would accept if it were more difficult to take a resource solo. Especially if it were to be more playable. No complaints there if it happened.

But - There's a difference between difficulty and flat out nonsense.

Holycannoli

Nobody should be able to solo a resource. Maybe the guards need an increased aggro range or something so they all gang up on a soloer.

I'm not keen on buffing them to prevent soloing resources though. The solution has to be something else.

jaws343

Holycannoli wrote: »

Nobody should be able to solo a resource. Maybe the guards need an increased aggro range or something so they all gang up on a soloer.

I'm not keen on buffing them to prevent soloing resources though. The solution has to be something else.

I think they could reasonably reign them in a bit, but increase the time it takes to flip the resource flag solo. So that you can successfully clear the PVE aspect of things will little issue but you open yourself up to a more PVP oriented defense as opposing players have more time to get to you to prevent the flip. IMO, defense of keeps and resources should have far more player involvement and less NPC barriers.

vgabor

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

That said, as a Sorc main, I can still solo resources in a reasonable amount of time. Sure, I might have to run an immobilize in addition to Streak and do a little tower humping to pull the DK guards away from the healers to pull it off but I'm a Sorc, if we stand still we die.

Just negate the flag and they'll become a test dummy to parse on them

jaws343

vgabor wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

That said, as a Sorc main, I can still solo resources in a reasonable amount of time. Sure, I might have to run an immobilize in addition to Streak and do a little tower humping to pull the DK guards away from the healers to pull it off but I'm a Sorc, if we stand still we die.

Just negate the flag and they'll become a test dummy to parse on them

Negates are definitely great at resources. But if you are running a solo sorc, you are certainly not wasting an Ult slot for Negate. Most sorcs are running restro ult back bar with an offensive ult front bar solo. The only time I even run Negate back bar solo is during MYM when I know there are zerg stacks everywhere and I am following the zerg for AP anyways. But for 99% of normal solo play, running Negate would be a death sentence.

(Not to mention, other classes do not have Negate)

Ipsius

It is shocking news that people joining Cyrodiil have issues soloing a resource with just npc guards.

Thecompton73

Sorry OP, I have to say this is a matter of the tactics you're using when trying to take a resource rather than the guards just being too powerful. I'm a good but not great player, maybe being just a little better than the majority and I can solo a resource on my glass cannon stamina NB without using an ultimate and using only vigor to heal . Sometimes the guards will be particularly viscous with all the CC's they have that don't respect immunity and they'll actually kill me but I'd say I"m successful in at least 9/10 attempts to capture a resource solo. If it can be done on that build it can be done on just about any build if you go about it in the right way.

McTaterskins

Holycannoli wrote: »

Nobody should be able to solo a resource. Maybe the guards need an increased aggro range or something so they all gang up on a soloer.

I'm not keen on buffing them to prevent soloing resources though. The solution has to be something else.

I'm in agreement. It should be incredibly difficult to take a resource solo at the very very least.

But, we still shouldn't steer away from the fact that in their current form, they're causing a lot of performance issues.

red_emu

Resource guards should be toned down while keep guards should be buffed way, way more! I feel like taking a keep with 2-3 players should be more of a challenge.

M0ntie

I think the guards are about right. They should be challenging to solo, but I think that a strong player on a well built character should be able to solo a resource. Sometimes if they have maximum buffs, they are extremely hard to solo, but that's OK too.

Sparxlost

kieso wrote: »

Nah guards are weak af and should be buffed actually.

though guards arent OP in my opinion they are way too annoying they aggro from like ten miles away even when crouch stealthed i cant sneak into or around an open keep as anything other than a nightblade

once you have caught their attention they can somehow see you through walls and will negate shock clench and just be relentless in their pursuit....

idc about them being able to heal themselves but if they were less deadly towards squishy stealth players even slightly i would be happy..

wheresbes

The easiest way to do it is what FluffWit wrote, basically, cloak/invis go up the tower, kill the guard there, pull out the siege in his spot, 2 shots and everyone on the flag is dead, then get down, mender first, and then the remaining guard

xiphactinus

I was an average pvp player at best and I could solo every resource and even soloed keeps. No, Buff guards and make them tougher. Even though I'd like the idea of being John cleese in the holy grail running solo across a field towards a keep and winning the day under no circumstances should any player be able to solo a keep. Resources should be tough too. Some of the best fights have been had at resources. The timer on the keeps makes it tricky turning the flags but it can be done with higher dps and I did all this on a tank build which did virtually no damage at all.

Holycannoli

red_emu wrote: »

Resource guards should be toned down while keep guards should be buffed way, way more! I feel like taking a keep with 2-3 players should be more of a challenge.

Well the fact that one person can place multiple siege engines and use them in succession has something to do with that.

But at the same time, in those campaigns with very little pop it's sort of required to take keeps solo or duo because good luck getting a proper group together.

Ominer

The issue with resource guards isn't about whether they are or are not soloable, it’s the debuffs they present. It's already been mentioned that when a zerg / large group roll up to a resource, the guards die immediately so what's the point in them?

With the amount of time taken to actually find fights on PC EU, it can feel like you're spending more time PVEing guards on resources than engaging in any meaningful / enjoyable PVP.

The issue with guards is they are a bigger threat than 90% of the cyrodiil population in tower fights.

I'd be happy with just reducing their pathing so they can't follow you so far / significantly toning down the guard puncture debuff. I don't find the chains / negates to be too big of an issue.

The puncture debuff has 0 impact on zergs but is ridiculously strong against solo players. So much so that if i'm 1v3 or 4 in a tower i'll focus the guard before the players.

I'm not that bothered by them though they're more annoying than gamebreaking, and they're pretty low on my list of priorities for improving PVP.

ncallstar88

Yeah I think people misunderstood, ofc they can be soloed but it’s extremely annoying and unfair the guard tactics plus they make the game laggy same with all the other pve stuff in a pvp zone