Question: What's a respectable Parse....

Necrotech_Master

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

As primarily a soloist, my 'end game' is soloing WBs and normal group dungeons. I build for solo survival, sustain, and damage - in that order. That does not mean that damage is unimportant and a 3M dummy or actual boss is the best tool to try and refine my damage without sacrificing survival/sustain and relying on no group support. Since I don't group that often, my solo focus works fine for that as well - especially since pugs are kind of like boxes of chocolate (you never know what you're gonna get). I guess my point is that I maintain that dummies and combat metrex are great tools for soloists if used toward that purpose.

This thread has definitely helped me see the purpose for the trial dummy though - as well as verify that it is of no benefit to me.

i like to have multiple scenarios to test which is the only reason i really wanted a trial dummy because i dont have that test case lol

currently i have the following:

• solo 300k dummy (the thrall dummy mainly for vamp feeding, but can be used to test burst dmg)
• a 3 mil dummy with 2 precursors (to test boss with adds for aoe dps testing)
• 2 6 mil dummies by themselves (single hard enemy)

when i can i want to add an aetherial well and trial dummy into the collection because i like testing gear and seeing what the procs do lol

SerafinaWaterstar

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

So when people speak of 70k (+) it’s on the trial dummy.

God this gets complicated.

Necrotech_Master

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

So when people speak of 70k (+) it’s on the trial dummy.

God this gets complicated.

the trial dummy is kind of the "standard" for dps parses

i mentioned the 3 or 6 mil dummy parses because they are easier to obtain and numbers are going to be significantly lowered due to the lack of buffs/debuffs since your running under your own power which would be the case if you were soloing a dungeon or WB

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part

• its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)
• the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Got two in my house on PC/NA, each with aetherial wells, anyone is free to add me and stop by anytime.

I will 100% agree that if you are really built for soling difficult content, the trail dummy parse may not be supper meaningful in terms of raw numbers it generates. Most difficult solo fights are more a war of attrition than simply a straight parse, and of course you need to make adjustments to your build for that (sustain, major breach, healing, etc.), all of which will lower your DPS.

But that is not necessarily what its designed for. We call it a raid dummy or a trial dummy for a reason, its meant to replicate that scenario. Will you have every dummy buff in a good raid 100% of the time, no, but a good raid is closer than you think, and will actually have some things the dummy doesnt have. On a true stack and burn fight in a good raid, I can actually pull ahead of my dummy numbers on occasion.

It is still the best means we have to compare class to class and player to player. If you are looking for an objective benchmark of your damage potential, or you simply want to be sure you can sustain and keep your parse going for a few minutes, Raid Dummies are far and away the best tool in the game.

3 and 6 mil dummies have inherent flaws. Sure they can be very useful for certain scenarios if you want to test self buffed DPS. Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast. You pretty much do an opening, maybe your rotation 1-2 times, and then its a spammy execute in most scenarios. Similar to an easier Vet Dungeon boss, its a parse, but barely. Problem with 6 mil is that if you build to sustain it and then walk into a group setting, you are simply leaving damage on the table. Your sustain will be overkill. Now again, if you are building to solo vet DLC dungeons, near infinite sustain (at the sacrifice of lower damage), may be exactly what you need. That said, I would argue that is far more Niche than what most people want them for.

If you are actively trying to improve your DPS for a group setting, the raid dummy is where you should spend the vast majority of your practice time.

at some point, possibly with my next eso+ renewal i will probably get the aetherial well and trial dummy, the well is more important to me when im trying to test ultimates or gear lol

i dont disagree that the trial dummy is good at what it is designed for, which is testing a build during optimal conditions in a trial group, as that is end game and prep for large organized groups

the main problems i have with the trial dummy though is there is no way to earn it in game outside of using crowns (which makes it VERY expensive), and if you are truly a solo player doing solo things, it is a poor test of your build

the 6 mil dummies are very accessible (we have been given at least 2 freebies in the past of the 6 mil variety, and the 3 mil is relatively cheap to craft)

the 300k precursors that are also earnable, yes those are definitely too low to parse with but because you can get quantity they are good for testing different aoe setups (ive considered getting more of them and make a "targeting practice" area so you can test ranges of aoes)

That complaint is 100% valid. Cant argue against that at all. At one point, my house was typically pretty crowded with people parsing, but sadly, my dummies are lonely these days. The wells are sweet. If only we could PTE from trials straight to our house...

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast.

For those of us who aren't ESO experts, it takes a while.

LOL, fair. I do think they are an excellent place to start. When someone is learning to DPS, last thing they should do is try to kill a trial dummy because it will take all afternoon. I use them to practice rotation (usually the 6 mil more than the 3), but I really dont pay much attention to my numbers, as I often stop/start. Once I feel like I have it down, its straight to the trial dummy, because those are the numbers I can objectively analyze. That said, if you are someone that can kill a trial dummy in under 4 minutes, you just arent going to get a lot of useful info from a 3 mil, and you probably cant sustain a 6 mil without running something like ele drain, which does mess with your rotation.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

So when people speak of 70k (+) it’s on the trial dummy.

God this gets complicated.

@SerafinaWaterstar

While always is a strong word, when the vast majority of people are talking about parses, raid requirements, etc., they are talking trial dummies. If you see parses above about 60k, its a really safe bet. Trial dummies are going to be the standard for 99% of the PVE end game community. Only time I ever see a really good PVE player talk about a 3/6 mil parse, its a total cheese parse and just for LOLs. The best rotation to nuke a 3/6 mil dummy is not going to look much like the best rotation to kill a trial dummy. For any trial or Vet DLC dungeon, the rotation you likely want is the one used to kill a trial dummy.

I would also suggest that 40k on a 6mil doesnt really translate to a 120k parse on a trial dummy. 40k on a 3/6 mil is good, but it isnt that difficult to hit, but 120k takes 3 minutes of near perfection on a raid dummy.

If your goal is a PVE DPS, and you could only use one dummy, unquestionably, a trial dummy is the answer.

Necrotech_Master

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part

• its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)
• the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Got two in my house on PC/NA, each with aetherial wells, anyone is free to add me and stop by anytime.

I will 100% agree that if you are really built for soling difficult content, the trail dummy parse may not be supper meaningful in terms of raw numbers it generates. Most difficult solo fights are more a war of attrition than simply a straight parse, and of course you need to make adjustments to your build for that (sustain, major breach, healing, etc.), all of which will lower your DPS.

But that is not necessarily what its designed for. We call it a raid dummy or a trial dummy for a reason, its meant to replicate that scenario. Will you have every dummy buff in a good raid 100% of the time, no, but a good raid is closer than you think, and will actually have some things the dummy doesnt have. On a true stack and burn fight in a good raid, I can actually pull ahead of my dummy numbers on occasion.

It is still the best means we have to compare class to class and player to player. If you are looking for an objective benchmark of your damage potential, or you simply want to be sure you can sustain and keep your parse going for a few minutes, Raid Dummies are far and away the best tool in the game.

3 and 6 mil dummies have inherent flaws. Sure they can be very useful for certain scenarios if you want to test self buffed DPS. Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast. You pretty much do an opening, maybe your rotation 1-2 times, and then its a spammy execute in most scenarios. Similar to an easier Vet Dungeon boss, its a parse, but barely. Problem with 6 mil is that if you build to sustain it and then walk into a group setting, you are simply leaving damage on the table. Your sustain will be overkill. Now again, if you are building to solo vet DLC dungeons, near infinite sustain (at the sacrifice of lower damage), may be exactly what you need. That said, I would argue that is far more Niche than what most people want them for.

If you are actively trying to improve your DPS for a group setting, the raid dummy is where you should spend the vast majority of your practice time.

at some point, possibly with my next eso+ renewal i will probably get the aetherial well and trial dummy, the well is more important to me when im trying to test ultimates or gear lol

i dont disagree that the trial dummy is good at what it is designed for, which is testing a build during optimal conditions in a trial group, as that is end game and prep for large organized groups

the main problems i have with the trial dummy though is there is no way to earn it in game outside of using crowns (which makes it VERY expensive), and if you are truly a solo player doing solo things, it is a poor test of your build

the 6 mil dummies are very accessible (we have been given at least 2 freebies in the past of the 6 mil variety, and the 3 mil is relatively cheap to craft)

the 300k precursors that are also earnable, yes those are definitely too low to parse with but because you can get quantity they are good for testing different aoe setups (ive considered getting more of them and make a "targeting practice" area so you can test ranges of aoes)

That complaint is 100% valid. Cant argue against that at all. At one point, my house was typically pretty crowded with people parsing, but sadly, my dummies are lonely these days. The wells are sweet. If only we could PTE from trials straight to our house...

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast.

For those of us who aren't ESO experts, it takes a while.

LOL, fair. I do think they are an excellent place to start. When someone is learning to DPS, last thing they should do is try to kill a trial dummy because it will take all afternoon. I use them to practice rotation (usually the 6 mil more than the 3), but I really dont pay much attention to my numbers, as I often stop/start. Once I feel like I have it down, its straight to the trial dummy, because those are the numbers I can objectively analyze. That said, if you are someone that can kill a trial dummy in under 4 minutes, you just arent going to get a lot of useful info from a 3 mil, and you probably cant sustain a 6 mil without running something like ele drain, which does mess with your rotation.

they have some trial dummies which are earnable in game, but they are very expensive to make and dont come with the same benefits as the actual "trial" dummy

robust centurion i think is supposed to be a vet trial boss, but it provides no benefits like the iron atro trial dummy and would require a lot of gold or excessively farming HOF for the parts needed to make it

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part

• its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)
• the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Got two in my house on PC/NA, each with aetherial wells, anyone is free to add me and stop by anytime.

I will 100% agree that if you are really built for soling difficult content, the trail dummy parse may not be supper meaningful in terms of raw numbers it generates. Most difficult solo fights are more a war of attrition than simply a straight parse, and of course you need to make adjustments to your build for that (sustain, major breach, healing, etc.), all of which will lower your DPS.

But that is not necessarily what its designed for. We call it a raid dummy or a trial dummy for a reason, its meant to replicate that scenario. Will you have every dummy buff in a good raid 100% of the time, no, but a good raid is closer than you think, and will actually have some things the dummy doesnt have. On a true stack and burn fight in a good raid, I can actually pull ahead of my dummy numbers on occasion.

It is still the best means we have to compare class to class and player to player. If you are looking for an objective benchmark of your damage potential, or you simply want to be sure you can sustain and keep your parse going for a few minutes, Raid Dummies are far and away the best tool in the game.

3 and 6 mil dummies have inherent flaws. Sure they can be very useful for certain scenarios if you want to test self buffed DPS. Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast. You pretty much do an opening, maybe your rotation 1-2 times, and then its a spammy execute in most scenarios. Similar to an easier Vet Dungeon boss, its a parse, but barely. Problem with 6 mil is that if you build to sustain it and then walk into a group setting, you are simply leaving damage on the table. Your sustain will be overkill. Now again, if you are building to solo vet DLC dungeons, near infinite sustain (at the sacrifice of lower damage), may be exactly what you need. That said, I would argue that is far more Niche than what most people want them for.

If you are actively trying to improve your DPS for a group setting, the raid dummy is where you should spend the vast majority of your practice time.

at some point, possibly with my next eso+ renewal i will probably get the aetherial well and trial dummy, the well is more important to me when im trying to test ultimates or gear lol

i dont disagree that the trial dummy is good at what it is designed for, which is testing a build during optimal conditions in a trial group, as that is end game and prep for large organized groups

the main problems i have with the trial dummy though is there is no way to earn it in game outside of using crowns (which makes it VERY expensive), and if you are truly a solo player doing solo things, it is a poor test of your build

the 6 mil dummies are very accessible (we have been given at least 2 freebies in the past of the 6 mil variety, and the 3 mil is relatively cheap to craft)

the 300k precursors that are also earnable, yes those are definitely too low to parse with but because you can get quantity they are good for testing different aoe setups (ive considered getting more of them and make a "targeting practice" area so you can test ranges of aoes)

That complaint is 100% valid. Cant argue against that at all. At one point, my house was typically pretty crowded with people parsing, but sadly, my dummies are lonely these days. The wells are sweet. If only we could PTE from trials straight to our house...

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast.

For those of us who aren't ESO experts, it takes a while.

LOL, fair. I do think they are an excellent place to start. When someone is learning to DPS, last thing they should do is try to kill a trial dummy because it will take all afternoon. I use them to practice rotation (usually the 6 mil more than the 3), but I really dont pay much attention to my numbers, as I often stop/start. Once I feel like I have it down, its straight to the trial dummy, because those are the numbers I can objectively analyze. That said, if you are someone that can kill a trial dummy in under 4 minutes, you just arent going to get a lot of useful info from a 3 mil, and you probably cant sustain a 6 mil without running something like ele drain, which does mess with your rotation.

they have some trial dummies which are earnable in game, but they are very expensive to make and dont come with the same benefits as the actual "trial" dummy

robust centurion i think is supposed to be a vet trial boss, but it provides no benefits like the iron atro trial dummy and would require a lot of gold or excessively farming HOF for the parts needed to make it

Yeah, that was introduced long before the raid dummies if memory serves. At one point I was trying to make one but I gave up. I think its just a centurion with a lot of health, but I guess I am not positive on that. If going for an unbuffed dummy (which certainly has its uses), I see little reason to go above the 6 mil, unless your goal is to be sure you have infinite sustain. But even that can be accomplished on a 6 mil. Seems like a good way to get carpal tunnel. LOL.

kringled_1

The robust centurion and the iron atronach, despite both being referred to as trial dummies, serve completely different purposes.
The iron Atro is used for solo damage parsing, and is intended to create a reproducible and standard set of buffs/debuffs that mimic what's seen in trial groups.
The centurions are full resistance dummies with a very high health pool. I've only seen them used as something you bring a full group to parse on, in case you want to compare different group setups (sets/classes for supports, dps composition, etc). I don't see this done much anymore and haven't since logs became available.

Necrotech_Master

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part

• its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)
• the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Got two in my house on PC/NA, each with aetherial wells, anyone is free to add me and stop by anytime.

I will 100% agree that if you are really built for soling difficult content, the trail dummy parse may not be supper meaningful in terms of raw numbers it generates. Most difficult solo fights are more a war of attrition than simply a straight parse, and of course you need to make adjustments to your build for that (sustain, major breach, healing, etc.), all of which will lower your DPS.

But that is not necessarily what its designed for. We call it a raid dummy or a trial dummy for a reason, its meant to replicate that scenario. Will you have every dummy buff in a good raid 100% of the time, no, but a good raid is closer than you think, and will actually have some things the dummy doesnt have. On a true stack and burn fight in a good raid, I can actually pull ahead of my dummy numbers on occasion.

It is still the best means we have to compare class to class and player to player. If you are looking for an objective benchmark of your damage potential, or you simply want to be sure you can sustain and keep your parse going for a few minutes, Raid Dummies are far and away the best tool in the game.

3 and 6 mil dummies have inherent flaws. Sure they can be very useful for certain scenarios if you want to test self buffed DPS. Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast. You pretty much do an opening, maybe your rotation 1-2 times, and then its a spammy execute in most scenarios. Similar to an easier Vet Dungeon boss, its a parse, but barely. Problem with 6 mil is that if you build to sustain it and then walk into a group setting, you are simply leaving damage on the table. Your sustain will be overkill. Now again, if you are building to solo vet DLC dungeons, near infinite sustain (at the sacrifice of lower damage), may be exactly what you need. That said, I would argue that is far more Niche than what most people want them for.

If you are actively trying to improve your DPS for a group setting, the raid dummy is where you should spend the vast majority of your practice time.

at some point, possibly with my next eso+ renewal i will probably get the aetherial well and trial dummy, the well is more important to me when im trying to test ultimates or gear lol

i dont disagree that the trial dummy is good at what it is designed for, which is testing a build during optimal conditions in a trial group, as that is end game and prep for large organized groups

the main problems i have with the trial dummy though is there is no way to earn it in game outside of using crowns (which makes it VERY expensive), and if you are truly a solo player doing solo things, it is a poor test of your build

the 6 mil dummies are very accessible (we have been given at least 2 freebies in the past of the 6 mil variety, and the 3 mil is relatively cheap to craft)

the 300k precursors that are also earnable, yes those are definitely too low to parse with but because you can get quantity they are good for testing different aoe setups (ive considered getting more of them and make a "targeting practice" area so you can test ranges of aoes)

That complaint is 100% valid. Cant argue against that at all. At one point, my house was typically pretty crowded with people parsing, but sadly, my dummies are lonely these days. The wells are sweet. If only we could PTE from trials straight to our house...

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast.

For those of us who aren't ESO experts, it takes a while.

LOL, fair. I do think they are an excellent place to start. When someone is learning to DPS, last thing they should do is try to kill a trial dummy because it will take all afternoon. I use them to practice rotation (usually the 6 mil more than the 3), but I really dont pay much attention to my numbers, as I often stop/start. Once I feel like I have it down, its straight to the trial dummy, because those are the numbers I can objectively analyze. That said, if you are someone that can kill a trial dummy in under 4 minutes, you just arent going to get a lot of useful info from a 3 mil, and you probably cant sustain a 6 mil without running something like ele drain, which does mess with your rotation.

they have some trial dummies which are earnable in game, but they are very expensive to make and dont come with the same benefits as the actual "trial" dummy

robust centurion i think is supposed to be a vet trial boss, but it provides no benefits like the iron atro trial dummy and would require a lot of gold or excessively farming HOF for the parts needed to make it

Yeah, that was introduced long before the raid dummies if memory serves. At one point I was trying to make one but I gave up. I think its just a centurion with a lot of health, but I guess I am not positive on that. If going for an unbuffed dummy (which certainly has its uses), I see little reason to go above the 6 mil, unless your goal is to be sure you have infinite sustain. But even that can be accomplished on a 6 mil. Seems like a good way to get carpal tunnel. LOL.

i think it had somewhere around 12-18 mil hp, but i cant find any sources to confirm it

and the definite blocker on this one is 120x dwarven construct repair parts, that is a LOT of HOF trials to run lol

ArchMikem

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Gear doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit 30k on a dummy, you're golden.

No context. Which dummy? If talking a trial dummy, and you can only hit 30k, you have no business in pretty much any vet content. Now of course, vet content is not for everyone, nor does it need to be, but I am assuming that if OP is asking the question, its because they are looking for some benchmarks to work towards. 30k on a 3 or 6 mil is not bad, but I wouldnt call it great. Respectable? Sure. I guess.

I'm only talking about the 3mil. OP barely gives any context either so we don't know their content intentions. I don't expect players mentioning "starter gear" with only 350CP to be rushing into Vet Trials, but 30k on a 3mil dummy is more than enough for Vet Dungeons.

FeedbackOnly

Bigmatt2 wrote: »

I left a guild because of Parsing. Long story short, before they would "allow" me to group with them for Vet Sunspire my Parse had to be 60K on that Trial Dummy. So after grinding through some Hel Ra for some basic trial gear <stamplar> in the way of Viscious Serpant, pairing it with Deadly Strike and that Harpoon Skirt. I got my Parse up to 60K and submitted it for review. So then the Parse requirement went from 60K to 65K. You can probably see where this is going. I worked on the rotation and got it up to 65K. Submitted the video, the requirement then moved from 65K to 70K. So back to the trial dummy and got it to 70K only to be told 75K was now the requirement. I actually made it to 75K only to be told that 80K was the requirement. I tried getting it to 80K, but never could quite get there.

So I got frustrated with parsing and went into Craglorn late one night with a beer in my hand and Pug'd the damn thing with strangers to get the completion.

Then left the guild. Needless to say nobody reached out to see why.

Best of luck in your parsing quest.

I am sorry for you. 70k is normal requirement here https://discord.gg/P8tem7nsHr

No guild requirement for runs


Another one I saw https://discord.gg/8Rypfxyvhk

neferpitou73

20k is fine in my experience for base game content vet and normal. DLC dungeons you really want to be pushing 25-30k. (6m dummies for reference)

Good news is that usually once you find one DPS build that works for you; getting others to work isn't that hard.

Hotdog_23

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@Necrotech_Master thanks for the encouragement. On actual solo runs vs WBs or group dungeon bosses my characters range from about 18-26k dps - and it took lots of practice to get there. Though we use pretty basic but appropriate and decent gear like Julianos, Mother's Sorrow, Slimecraw for mages, I work hard on trying to kill them effectively and monitor the results after each kill on Combat Metrics. I 'feel' pretty satisfied with the damage and it is encouraging to hear that what I'm doing is reasonable for someone who doesn't run DLC vet dungeons or Trials. I do have a 3M dummy and sometimes parse it with similar results but prefer 'field parsing' on actual bosses. 3M is kind of tedious and the Precursor goes down way too quickly. Wish I could get a 1M or 1.5M dummy.

Really wish we could do 'field parsing' on console. Never liked dummy humping.

It would really be nice if we had the option to turn on and off parsing that we get when we beat on a dummy on console. Think this would be very beneficial to see actually content numbers.

Stay safe

morrowjen

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@Necrotech_Master thanks for the encouragement. On actual solo runs vs WBs or group dungeon bosses my characters range from about 18-26k dps - and it took lots of practice to get there. Though we use pretty basic but appropriate and decent gear like Julianos, Mother's Sorrow, Slimecraw for mages, I work hard on trying to kill them effectively and monitor the results after each kill on Combat Metrics. I 'feel' pretty satisfied with the damage and it is encouraging to hear that what I'm doing is reasonable for someone who doesn't run DLC vet dungeons or Trials. I do have a 3M dummy and sometimes parse it with similar results but prefer 'field parsing' on actual bosses. 3M is kind of tedious and the Precursor goes down way too quickly. Wish I could get a 1M or 1.5M dummy.

i personally prefer using WBs to test my characters because they fight back, i have to be cognizant of a moving enemy that also hits back

i also dont feel you need to fully kill the dummy to get an idea of your parse either, it usually seems evident to be effective or not after 30-60 seconds of hitting the dummy, the only reason people fully kill a trial dummy is practice maintaining the parse over the course of a long fight, which is different than just build testing to see how it functions with skill selections

i more frequently use the dummies to test gear procs to see how they function, or if im being really lazy, use the dummies to complete endeavors (for endeavors that require getting kills with class or weapon skills, or procing weapon poisons on enemies, these definitely do work on target dummies)

I think it depends on your build. Some really do need to fully kill the dummy because execute is where the dps jumps up. I guess you could work around that though if you really felt pressed for time. I just know that for my stamcro, I'm leaving a lot of dps on the table if I miss execute.

Jaimeh

If you are on PC and have access to combat metrics, I think a gauge to seeing improvement is not just the final dmg number, but also checking your LA to skills ratio, and your missed LAs. If you can improve on these, then you're already on your way to decent damage, and you might just need to work on speed.

spartaxoxo

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw. In my opinion 80k on a 21 mil dummy is the lowest I would call "respectable". That can be done without perfect timing, gear, rotation or CP's. It's enough to clear every vet hard mode, but not quite enough for some trifectas.

100k+ is good, and if someone can do this and obey mechanics then I would welcome them to any PVE content. That's still pretty far from the ceiling, as I've seen some getting close to 140k.

Any parses on 3 mil or 6 mil are pretty meaningless to me. It's far too dependent on which buffs and debuffs they are bringing, and if they are sustaining the 6 mil then they will likely be oversustaining in any group content (which is bad for damage with Bahsei).

60k is the lowest needed to clear any of the vet dungeon trifectas, afaik and many can be done with less. I think 75k gets you through a lot of vet trials too. Which fight requires more, apart from the most recent vet trials?

WrathOfInnos

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw. In my opinion 80k on a 21 mil dummy is the lowest I would call "respectable". That can be done without perfect timing, gear, rotation or CP's. It's enough to clear every vet hard mode, but not quite enough for some trifectas.

100k+ is good, and if someone can do this and obey mechanics then I would welcome them to any PVE content. That's still pretty far from the ceiling, as I've seen some getting close to 140k.

Any parses on 3 mil or 6 mil are pretty meaningless to me. It's far too dependent on which buffs and debuffs they are bringing, and if they are sustaining the 6 mil then they will likely be oversustaining in any group content (which is bad for damage with Bahsei).

60k is the lowest needed to clear any of the vet dungeon trifectas, afaik and many can be done with less. I think 75k gets you through a lot of vet trials too. Which fight requires more, apart from the most recent vet trials?

Vet HM's in DLC trials. Xalvakka HM comes to mind, and no death HM for Oaxiltsu requires quite a burn. Also speed strats for bosses like Lokkestiiz and Nahviintaas. You can clear HM with lower DPS, but the time to do so increases exponentially because you are having to kill more adds, so the trifecta time limit becomes a problem.

kargen27

SimonThesis wrote: »

Most vet trial guilds rn require minimum 100k Dps on a trial dummy.

One guild I am in requires completing the Craglorn vet trials to join a trial team doing the harder trials. They run a training event ina Craglorn trial at least once a week. No DPS check at all. Once you've completed those trials you can sign up for any trial.

The other a bit more serious about it requires 30k for progression groups and 70k for elite group.

spartaxoxo

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw. In my opinion 80k on a 21 mil dummy is the lowest I would call "respectable". That can be done without perfect timing, gear, rotation or CP's. It's enough to clear every vet hard mode, but not quite enough for some trifectas.

100k+ is good, and if someone can do this and obey mechanics then I would welcome them to any PVE content. That's still pretty far from the ceiling, as I've seen some getting close to 140k.

Any parses on 3 mil or 6 mil are pretty meaningless to me. It's far too dependent on which buffs and debuffs they are bringing, and if they are sustaining the 6 mil then they will likely be oversustaining in any group content (which is bad for damage with Bahsei).

60k is the lowest needed to clear any of the vet dungeon trifectas, afaik and many can be done with less. I think 75k gets you through a lot of vet trials too. Which fight requires more, apart from the most recent vet trials?

Vet HM's in DLC trials. Xalvakka HM comes to mind, and no death HM for Oaxiltsu requires quite a burn. Also speed strats for bosses like Lokkestiiz and Nahviintaas. You can clear HM with lower DPS, but the time to do so increases exponentially because you are having to kill more adds, so the trifecta time limit becomes a problem.

That's why I noted apart from the most recent vet trials. I think it's just the last 3 vet trial achievement runs you'd need more.

WrathOfInnos

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw. In my opinion 80k on a 21 mil dummy is the lowest I would call "respectable". That can be done without perfect timing, gear, rotation or CP's. It's enough to clear every vet hard mode, but not quite enough for some trifectas.

100k+ is good, and if someone can do this and obey mechanics then I would welcome them to any PVE content. That's still pretty far from the ceiling, as I've seen some getting close to 140k.

Any parses on 3 mil or 6 mil are pretty meaningless to me. It's far too dependent on which buffs and debuffs they are bringing, and if they are sustaining the 6 mil then they will likely be oversustaining in any group content (which is bad for damage with Bahsei).

60k is the lowest needed to clear any of the vet dungeon trifectas, afaik and many can be done with less. I think 75k gets you through a lot of vet trials too. Which fight requires more, apart from the most recent vet trials?

Vet HM's in DLC trials. Xalvakka HM comes to mind, and no death HM for Oaxiltsu requires quite a burn. Also speed strats for bosses like Lokkestiiz and Nahviintaas. You can clear HM with lower DPS, but the time to do so increases exponentially because you are having to kill more adds, so the trifecta time limit becomes a problem.

That's why I noted apart from the most recent vet trials. I think it's just the last 3 vet trial achievement runs you'd need more.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. All the trifectas before Sunspire can be completed with lower damage. I've been on 15 minute GH and IR runs where people were pulling around 20k on boss (not sure what that translates to on a 21mil dummy, maybe around 60k), it is much more difficult than a quick no-death, but it can be done with good mechanics focus.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw. In my opinion 80k on a 21 mil dummy is the lowest I would call "respectable". That can be done without perfect timing, gear, rotation or CP's. It's enough to clear every vet hard mode, but not quite enough for some trifectas.

100k+ is good, and if someone can do this and obey mechanics then I would welcome them to any PVE content. That's still pretty far from the ceiling, as I've seen some getting close to 140k.

Any parses on 3 mil or 6 mil are pretty meaningless to me. It's far too dependent on which buffs and debuffs they are bringing, and if they are sustaining the 6 mil then they will likely be oversustaining in any group content (which is bad for damage with Bahsei).

60k is the lowest needed to clear any of the vet dungeon trifectas, afaik and many can be done with less. I think 75k gets you through a lot of vet trials too. Which fight requires more, apart from the most recent vet trials?

I don't doubt that is true for the most part. I will say that some of the newer dungeons do take quite a burn on certain bosses. In 4 man, I pretty much always start with the speed strats, so I dont have a great sense of how long some of these fights can take if your DPS is low, but I am guessing you might struggle with the time component of some of the recent trifectas if your DPS is really maxing out at 60k on a trial dummy.

My pushback is this:

There seems to be this notion that somehow people that are great at parsing are also bad at mechanics, and vice versa. I dont think anything could be further form the truth based on all my experience in ESO. If 60k is really all you can pull on a trial dummy, either your build is really far from the meta, or you just arent that good at pressing buttons. If it's the later, I struggle to believe that someone only capable of pulling 60k on a trial dummy with todays damage is going to ace every mechanic that comes their way. A few years ago, sure. 60k was 60-70% of potential meta DPS, but now its less than half. You can mangle a rotation and button mash your way to 60k fairly easily these days.

kargen27 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Most vet trial guilds rn require minimum 100k Dps on a trial dummy.

One guild I am in requires completing the Craglorn vet trials to join a trial team doing the harder trials. They run a training event ina Craglorn trial at least once a week. No DPS check at all. Once you've completed those trials you can sign up for any trial.

The other a bit more serious about it requires 30k for progression groups and 70k for elite group.

The guild I am in that does the best job of this sort of thing does sort of a combo. They give DPS different Tiers from 1-5 (tanks and healers have their own tier system).

Everyone is at lest tier one, that allows you to sign up for any Craglorn trials. At the extreme end, Tier 5 requires every hardmode clear, and a parse of 120k+ (Tier 5 is more bragging rights than anything else). After tier 1, there are increasing clear and DPS check requirements.

Runs get announced with a minimum tier level. So maybe they do a Vet Sunspire (Non HM) with tier 2 or 3 as the baseline, but anyone higher can of course sign up as well. They might do an open RG HM prog at tier 4, etc. It works really well. Some of the tiers probably require parses that might be a little higher than what is actually needed, but truthfully, for open runs, I like it that way. Makes for smooth, no nonsense, runs.

Just because you can parse high, doesnt mean you know or can follow mechanics, and just because you have clears, doesnt mean you were really contributing much to those clears. The combo approach does pretty good job of ensuring both are true.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Players Helping Players section, as it is better suited there.

Thanks

vsrs_au

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

A few years ago, sure. 60k was 60-70% of potential meta DPS, but now its less than half. You can mangle a rotation and button mash your way to 60k fairly easily these days.

Now I really feel inadequate I struggle to get half that, most of the time it's well under 30k.

Hotdog_23

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

A few years ago, sure. 60k was 60-70% of potential meta DPS, but now its less than half. You can mangle a rotation and button mash your way to 60k fairly easily these days.

Now I really feel inadequate I struggle to get half that, most of the time it's well under 30k.

I remember when 25-30k was top dps, lol

Stay safe

xiphactinus

Most I've ever parsed was 64k, took a lot of effort. Still not enough apparently for some people. Play 100% solo now so it's not an issue anymore. I couldn't even get some 1 on 1 help in game with my rotation/skills etc.