Question: What's a respectable Parse....

Akali · May 2022

With starter gear, Tzogvin, Leviathan, Icehart. Around 350cp. All puplrle gear/jew, gold weapons. DW front - Bow backbar.

Just a guidline figure.

Cheers.

Necrotech_Master · May 2022

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

Lumsdenml · May 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

Agreed. If someone says "you have to do 90k dps or you're trash" block them. There is a lot of that here, but this right here is spot on.

AcadianPaladin · May 2022

@Necrotech_Master thanks for the encouragement. On actual solo runs vs WBs or group dungeon bosses my characters range from about 18-26k dps - and it took lots of practice to get there. Though we use pretty basic but appropriate and decent gear like Julianos, Mother's Sorrow, Slimecraw for mages, I work hard on trying to kill them effectively and monitor the results after each kill on Combat Metrics. I 'feel' pretty satisfied with the damage and it is encouraging to hear that what I'm doing is reasonable for someone who doesn't run DLC vet dungeons or Trials. I do have a 3M dummy and sometimes parse it with similar results but prefer 'field parsing' on actual bosses. 3M is kind of tedious and the Precursor goes down way too quickly. Wish I could get a 1M or 1.5M dummy.

Necrotech_Master · May 2022

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@Necrotech_Master thanks for the encouragement. On actual solo runs vs WBs or group dungeon bosses my characters range from about 18-26k dps - and it took lots of practice to get there. Though we use pretty basic but appropriate and decent gear like Julianos, Mother's Sorrow, Slimecraw for mages, I work hard on trying to kill them effectively and monitor the results after each kill on Combat Metrics. I 'feel' pretty satisfied with the damage and it is encouraging to hear that what I'm doing is reasonable for someone who doesn't run DLC vet dungeons or Trials. I do have a 3M dummy and sometimes parse it with similar results but prefer 'field parsing' on actual bosses. 3M is kind of tedious and the Precursor goes down way too quickly. Wish I could get a 1M or 1.5M dummy.

i personally prefer using WBs to test my characters because they fight back, i have to be cognizant of a moving enemy that also hits back

i also dont feel you need to fully kill the dummy to get an idea of your parse either, it usually seems evident to be effective or not after 30-60 seconds of hitting the dummy, the only reason people fully kill a trial dummy is practice maintaining the parse over the course of a long fight, which is different than just build testing to see how it functions with skill selections

i more frequently use the dummies to test gear procs to see how they function, or if im being really lazy, use the dummies to complete endeavors (for endeavors that require getting kills with class or weapon skills, or procing weapon poisons on enemies, these definitely do work on target dummies)

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

You have to define Parse. To the vast majority of people, that is a 100-0% kill on a 21 million health trial dummy. It is the most objective method we have of comparing parses among players and among classes. Issue with the 3 mil or 6 mil dummy is that they tend to overstate DPS on some classes and understate on others, depending on what buffs they have. In a good group, its reasonable to assume you will have most of the buffs from a 21 mil dummy, just likely not at 100% uptime. Issue at your level (I have parsed on my ult account, roughly 200 CP), is that sustain is pretty rough.

Pure speculation, as your CP is pretty low. I would guess someone that really new what they were doing could parse in the 90s with your setup. Does that mean you should feel like you can or need do that? Of course not. I think rather than worry about raw numbers, if you have access to CMX, you should look at things like your pace and how many LAs you are missing in your weave as a start. Then look to be sure you have certain buffs you need to provide (major brutality, major Savajery, and Major endurance are the big three), and be sure they are up to 100%. After that, get a feel for whether your are over or under casting DOTs and BUffs.

If I was just throwing guesses at the wall, I would think that on a trial dummy at your level, 60K is respectable, 70k would be really good, 80k would be excellent, and 90 would be top 1%. You wont get to respectable over night. You will certainly need to spend some time practicing your rotation.

Once you are at about 1500 CP, those numbers would certainly go up. I think anything above about 80k on a trial dummy is respectable. I am not saying for a second that you need to be there to complete most content, but if you are actively trying to parse and improve you damage, and you aren't above 80k at max CP, there is a real flaw somewhere.

Anything above 100k is pretty darn good. Your pace is likely above about .85, your handling your rotation, and your weave is solid. Anything above about 115 is excellent, and anything above 125k is top 1% or less. And by 1% I mean of people that actively try to parse once in a while, not of the player base. Less than .0001% of the whole population is pulling 120k+.

Ratzkifal · May 2022

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

Agreed. If someone says "you have to do 90k dps or you're trash" block them. There is a lot of that here, but this right here is spot on.

The 90k dps is referring to the trial dummy that grants all the relevant buffs and synergies. If you pull 40k dps on the regular dummies, you are already in the 90k range.

WrathOfInnos · May 2022

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw. In my opinion 80k on a 21 mil dummy is the lowest I would call "respectable". That can be done without perfect timing, gear, rotation or CP's. It's enough to clear every vet hard mode, but not quite enough for some trifectas.

100k+ is good, and if someone can do this and obey mechanics then I would welcome them to any PVE content. That's still pretty far from the ceiling, as I've seen some getting close to 140k.

Any parses on 3 mil or 6 mil are pretty meaningless to me. It's far too dependent on which buffs and debuffs they are bringing, and if they are sustaining the 6 mil then they will likely be oversustaining in any group content (which is bad for damage with Bahsei).

Necrotech_Master · May 2022

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part

its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)
the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Amottica · May 2022

The answer depends on the content and the group's goals.

WrathOfInnos · May 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

That is true, but generally a solo DPS number is not important. DPS is an important metric for comparison in group content, where the trial dummy is more standardized and accurate.

For most solo content, players can light attack through with 5k DPS, and it affects nobody else. If people care to compare builds for harder things like Maelstrom or Vateshran, metrics like score or clear time are generally more meaningful than solo DPS. And in any of these scenarios sustain is going to be better than a 6 mil dummy because you'll get bursts of resources from kills as well as downtime to regenerate or heavy attack.

Kusto · May 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part
its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)

the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Join some guilds. Most have 21 mil dummy in their guild house.

And the reason why trial dummy, is because not all classes have the same buffs available but are easily provided even in pug groups. Parsing on 3 mil doesn't give you real comparisons between builds. I hit 50k+ on 3 mil with my warden but only 40k with some other class for example. But in group content I hit similar numbers.
If you only play solo then 3mil is all you need. I test my different setups like this.

Elrond87 · May 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part
its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)

the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

true, say on a dummy i did 115k with zero sustain issues, i go in a random trial all sudden my sustain gone bad and im doing more like 55k on a boss with the stuff of mechanics and the lack of correct debuff/buffs

jtm1018 · May 2022

I can do 20-23k on a 5mil ptd.

I guess thats ok,.

SimonThesis · May 2022

Most vet trial guilds rn require minimum 100k Dps on a trial dummy.

Kusto · May 2022

SimonThesis wrote: »

Most vet trial guilds rn require minimum 100k Dps on a trial dummy.

Not sure what platform you're talking about but on PC/NA that's not true at all. Maybe some hardcore trial guilds who looking to fill core groups for HMs and score pushing but your average, the majority of guilds, only ask 60-70k.

freespirit · May 2022

I am way too lazy to spend time killing dummys

My dps may not be the greatest but I can solo most world bosses, might not be fast but I can get the job done,

I don't do many vet trials but when I do my damage is never an issue...... my standing in stupid is however!!

A dead DD does no damage!

pklemming · May 2022

A 'respectable' parse, I would put at around 80k on the 21 mil. That only really matters if there is a reason to get a reasonable parse.

HMs and trifectas are made a lot easier with higher dps. On a fair bit of content there is a dps check, which means if you do not exceed that dps, you can not complete that content, no matter how well you know the mechanics.

DPS is also a 'learned' skill. People come in to the game and complain they have low dps, when they have never bothered to learn to weave, what skills go with what other skills, how to manage resources and do not have at least passable gear.

Most people with high dps, didn't just come in to the game and suddenly become good, they spent time on a dummy, they understand their skills, passive and gear.

If I am tanking and you come in to a vet dungeon as a DD and you only use snipe through the whole dungeon, expect to be talked to (yes, this has happened more than once).

vsrs_au · May 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

using a 3 or 6 mil hp dummy

10k or less: low dps

15-30k: about average range and what should be expected for most general content

40k or higher: extremely good dps (the 120k trial dummy parsers)

Thanks, I feel a bit less inadequate now!

My average dps is in the average range you cited, but I wasn't sure whether it was actually any good or not.

virtus753 · May 2022

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

3M is kind of tedious and the Precursor goes down way too quickly.

The Precursor also has half the resistances of bosses in game and the other dummies, so there is no way to do a comparable parse on it even if it had more health.

ArchMikem · May 2022

Gear doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit 30k on a dummy, you're golden.

FeedbackOnly · May 2022

Thank you for asking this question

Necrotech_Master · May 2022

Kusto wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part
its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)

the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Join some guilds. Most have 21 mil dummy in their guild house.

And the reason why trial dummy, is because not all classes have the same buffs available but are easily provided even in pug groups. Parsing on 3 mil doesn't give you real comparisons between builds. I hit 50k+ on 3 mil with my warden but only 40k with some other class for example. But in group content I hit similar numbers.
If you only play solo then 3mil is all you need. I test my different setups like this.

i am in 5 guilds, but i dont like to rely on the guild house, i prefer to personally have the stuff so if for some reason i was between guilds i could still do everything i wanted to do

Necrotech_Master · May 2022

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

That is true, but generally a solo DPS number is not important. DPS is an important metric for comparison in group content, where the trial dummy is more standardized and accurate.

For most solo content, players can light attack through with 5k DPS, and it affects nobody else. If people care to compare builds for harder things like Maelstrom or Vateshran, metrics like score or clear time are generally more meaningful than solo DPS. And in any of these scenarios sustain is going to be better than a 6 mil dummy because you'll get bursts of resources from kills as well as downtime to regenerate or heavy attack.

go try and solo a WB with only light attacks and see how long it takes lol

solo players do have reason to test their dps, and a 3 or 6 mil dummy is the best place to "safe test" if you are switching out several gear and skill setups to find what you like, instead of faceplanting on a WB and realizing your setup doesnt work the way you thought it would

thats why the different tiers of dummies exist, so people can test in different scenarios

i do think having an "in between" tier of the 300k and 3 mil would be good, like in the 1.5 mil range (as that is what most WBs have health wise)

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part
its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)

the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Got two in my house on PC/NA, each with aetherial wells, anyone is free to add me and stop by anytime.

I will 100% agree that if you are really built for soling difficult content, the trail dummy parse may not be supper meaningful in terms of raw numbers it generates. Most difficult solo fights are more a war of attrition than simply a straight parse, and of course you need to make adjustments to your build for that (sustain, major breach, healing, etc.), all of which will lower your DPS.

But that is not necessarily what its designed for. We call it a raid dummy or a trial dummy for a reason, its meant to replicate that scenario. Will you have every dummy buff in a good raid 100% of the time, no, but a good raid is closer than you think, and will actually have some things the dummy doesnt have. On a true stack and burn fight in a good raid, I can actually pull ahead of my dummy numbers on occasion.

It is still the best means we have to compare class to class and player to player. If you are looking for an objective benchmark of your damage potential, or you simply want to be sure you can sustain and keep your parse going for a few minutes, Raid Dummies are far and away the best tool in the game.

3 and 6 mil dummies have inherent flaws. Sure they can be very useful for certain scenarios if you want to test self buffed DPS. Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast. You pretty much do an opening, maybe your rotation 1-2 times, and then its a spammy execute in most scenarios. Similar to an easier Vet Dungeon boss, its a parse, but barely. Problem with 6 mil is that if you build to sustain it and then walk into a group setting, you are simply leaving damage on the table. Your sustain will be overkill. Now again, if you are building to solo vet DLC dungeons, near infinite sustain (at the sacrifice of lower damage), may be exactly what you need. That said, I would argue that is far more Niche than what most people want them for.

If you are actively trying to improve your DPS for a group setting, the raid dummy is where you should spend the vast majority of your practice time.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

Gear doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit 30k on a dummy, you're golden.

No context. Which dummy? If talking a trial dummy, and you can only hit 30k, you have no business in pretty much any vet content. Now of course, vet content is not for everyone, nor does it need to be, but I am assuming that if OP is asking the question, its because they are looking for some benchmarks to work towards. 30k on a 3 or 6 mil is not bad, but I wouldnt call it great. Respectable? Sure. I guess.

Necrotech_Master · May 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the problem i have with a trial dummy is multi part
its expensive crown wise (6000 crowns for 1 single item, which i find hard to justify)

the buffs/debuffs it gives you is only realistic for preformed and organized trial groups

for someone who solos a lot, parsing on a trial dummy is going to give you a false sense of dmg and sustain due to all of the extra buffs and such

Got two in my house on PC/NA, each with aetherial wells, anyone is free to add me and stop by anytime.

I will 100% agree that if you are really built for soling difficult content, the trail dummy parse may not be supper meaningful in terms of raw numbers it generates. Most difficult solo fights are more a war of attrition than simply a straight parse, and of course you need to make adjustments to your build for that (sustain, major breach, healing, etc.), all of which will lower your DPS.

But that is not necessarily what its designed for. We call it a raid dummy or a trial dummy for a reason, its meant to replicate that scenario. Will you have every dummy buff in a good raid 100% of the time, no, but a good raid is closer than you think, and will actually have some things the dummy doesnt have. On a true stack and burn fight in a good raid, I can actually pull ahead of my dummy numbers on occasion.

It is still the best means we have to compare class to class and player to player. If you are looking for an objective benchmark of your damage potential, or you simply want to be sure you can sustain and keep your parse going for a few minutes, Raid Dummies are far and away the best tool in the game.

3 and 6 mil dummies have inherent flaws. Sure they can be very useful for certain scenarios if you want to test self buffed DPS. Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast. You pretty much do an opening, maybe your rotation 1-2 times, and then its a spammy execute in most scenarios. Similar to an easier Vet Dungeon boss, its a parse, but barely. Problem with 6 mil is that if you build to sustain it and then walk into a group setting, you are simply leaving damage on the table. Your sustain will be overkill. Now again, if you are building to solo vet DLC dungeons, near infinite sustain (at the sacrifice of lower damage), may be exactly what you need. That said, I would argue that is far more Niche than what most people want them for.

If you are actively trying to improve your DPS for a group setting, the raid dummy is where you should spend the vast majority of your practice time.

at some point, possibly with my next eso+ renewal i will probably get the aetherial well and trial dummy, the well is more important to me when im trying to test ultimates or gear lol

i dont disagree that the trial dummy is good at what it is designed for, which is testing a build during optimal conditions in a trial group, as that is end game and prep for large organized groups

the main problems i have with the trial dummy though is there is no way to earn it in game outside of using crowns (which makes it VERY expensive), and if you are truly a solo player doing solo things, it is a poor test of your build

the 6 mil dummies are very accessible (we have been given at least 2 freebies in the past of the 6 mil variety, and the 3 mil is relatively cheap to craft)

the 300k precursors that are also earnable, yes those are definitely too low to parse with but because you can get quantity they are good for testing different aoe setups (ive considered getting more of them and make a "targeting practice" area so you can test ranges of aoes)

vsrs_au · May 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Problem with 3 mil is that they die so fast.

For those of us who aren't ESO experts, it takes a while.

AcadianPaladin · May 2022

As primarily a soloist, my 'end game' is soloing WBs and normal group dungeons. I build for solo survival, sustain, and damage - in that order. That does not mean that damage is unimportant and a 3M dummy or actual boss is the best tool to try and refine my damage without sacrificing survival/sustain and relying on no group support. Since I don't group that often, my solo focus works fine for that as well - especially since pugs are kind of like boxes of chocolate (you never know what you're gonna get). I guess my point is that I maintain that dummies and combat metrics are great tools for soloists if used toward that purpose.

This thread has definitely helped me see the purpose for the trial dummy though - as well as verify that it is of no benefit to me.

koopdaville68 · May 2022

freespirit wrote: »

I don't do many vet trials but when I do my damage is never an issue...... my standing in stupid is however!!

Classic!

And fits me to a "T"

Bigmatt2 · May 2022

I left a guild because of Parsing. Long story short, before they would "allow" me to group with them for Vet Sunspire my Parse had to be 60K on that Trial Dummy. So after grinding through some Hel Ra for some basic trial gear <stamplar> in the way of Viscious Serpant, pairing it with Deadly Strike and that Harpoon Skirt. I got my Parse up to 60K and submitted it for review. So then the Parse requirement went from 60K to 65K. You can probably see where this is going. I worked on the rotation and got it up to 65K. Submitted the video, the requirement then moved from 65K to 70K. So back to the trial dummy and got it to 70K only to be told 75K was now the requirement. I actually made it to 75K only to be told that 80K was the requirement. I tried getting it to 80K, but never could quite get there.

So I got frustrated with parsing and went into Craglorn late one night with a beer in my hand and Pug'd the damn thing with strangers to get the completion.

Then left the guild. Needless to say nobody reached out to see why.

Best of luck in your parsing quest.