The difference between a fake and a "real" healer/tank?

fred4

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

I miss the days when tanks had to actually be tanky and healers actually healed

ZOS periodically downgrade content. The first time I became aware of this was when the difficulty of mobs in Craglorn and IC was drastically nerfed years ago. I believe the logic behind this must have been something like: "Well, the high-end players have probably had enough of this now, so let's open it up to less accomplished players who couldn't do it before." While Craglorn was an obvious example, more generally this happens via power creep from CP and, most notably, new mythics. Old content becomes easier. New content, by and large, takes the power creep into account and is harder.

The days when tanks actually had to be tanky and healers actually healed are still here. It's just, you have to go into a newer DLC dungeon, possibly on hard mode, to experience that. I'm not too sure about healers, but tanks are definitely needed. I suspect the healer role is more dependent on how self-sufficient the tank and DDs are, which is why some expect healers to also buff the group's damage, as they do from tanks. Once you're comfortable with mechanics and survival, the game becomes about group synergy and some sets have established themselves in the mind of the playerbase as belonging to certain roles. Minor Courage from the tank via Yolnahkriin and Major Courage via Spell Power Cure or Olorime from the healer, for example. Those should be fairly safe bets to wear without overlap in a random group.

When you think about it, the game started off with few dungeons. As more were added we now have a greater spread of difficulty, not just due to having normal, vet, and hard mode, but due to the above factors. We probably still have the same number of really hard dungeons we had at the beginning of the game. ZOS used the content growth to provide more difficulty levels, addressing one of the early criticisms, rather than making everything really hard. Of course the other thing is the "play as you want" thing. That's arguably a blessing and a curse as it allows roles to blur or characters to be self-sufficient and rounded, if they so choose.

I play a tank that is essentially a solo build, though tilted quite heavily towards the actual tank role. It is a proper tank as far as I'm concerned, even though it is a Brawler build. I am able to solo essentially all normal and non-DLC vet dungeons with it, even hard modes. The cutoff point where I switch over, via gear change, to a conventional tank with 1H+S and Yolnahkriin is basically vet DLC dungeons. The Brawler build is still useful in those and even excels at certain fights over a conventional tank, but on average I find the 1H+S build better at that level. You do tend to get somewhat better PUGs in that content too, which actually benefit from you wearing a buff set. At the lower levels the capability of PUGs really varies. In some cases I literally carry the group in terms of tanking and damage, or it would fail.

I think you can't win with a single build. The spread of what you're required to do is too large. Sometimes you need to carry the group - or at least that's one way to succeed - in which case playing a "fake"-something helps. At other times it's better to be the enabler via buff sets, via debuffing the boss, via pulling adds in. If a PUG fails, it tends to disband quickly or blame may start flying around, whether justified or not. If a group succeeds, most people don't question how that happened. Sometimes you can't win in the minds of other people, no matter what. I've been accused by a healer for moving to much, even when I'm doing mechanics, because I see the DDs aren't doing their jobs. Once I was vehemently abused for playing the Brawler variation of my build by a very competent player. Sometimes such players insist on attempting hard modes I have never done. When I'm grappling with mechanics I don't understand, that's when PUG members usually show zero understanding. The fact that you're playing a non-standard build, down to details such as not wearing a buff set from the usual shortlist, that can create a prejudice among them. There is usually no scope for exploration, for finding solutions tailored to the current group. PUGs are only interested in getting the job done and collecting their 10 daily transmutes. At veteran hard mode, if they're inconsiderate or want to find a reason to put you down. The solution to that is being competent. If you are that, if you are on a comfortable build or you know every mechanic to the point where you make zero mistakes, you get very little stick for being a "fake"-something.

fred4

Heydan_Seegil wrote: »

But then that brings us back to a good tank. A good tank doesn't need to dodge and ruin AOEs but pulling things out of them. They should be solid like a stone pillar and keep everything taunted and in the AOE so the party can maximize DPS and heals.

Knowing the exact mechanics is a problem. You run into problems in PUGs that you may never experience in high DPS groups. For example, the giant Daedroth in Blessed Crucible 2 constantly spits out fire AOE that covers the ground. If the group can burn him down, that is not a problem. If the group is low DPS, the tank eventually has to move. Those AOE fire blobs stack on top of each other. At some point outhealing that becomes impossible.

The last fight in Coral Aerie, there was some element to that where your health bar goes blue. This was not described on Xynode when I looked relatively recently. Don't even get me started on Alcast. Those content creators do not experience the full mechanics of every dungeon, because their DPS is too high compared to a marginal group.

I'm a PvPer, new to PvE tanking, but I've done this for about 6 months now. I do not go to study up on every random dungeon I could face nor would that cover everything - see above. Some of them I've only done once on vet. Half of the DLC dungeons I've probably never done on hard mode. When I'm in a place I don't fully understand the mechanics in, I fret. To what extent can I stand in red and keep the boss in one place? When the salamanders in BDV enrage the first boss and everything goes to s, is it my fault for dying? Do I range taunt them, or not? (I now know not to.) Even when you know the mechanics of something like that first Black Drake Villa boss and you start dodge rolling as a tank, because you know the DDs failed to keep the salamanders away from the boss and he is enraged, you get accused of being a bad tank by an ignorant PUG. Sometimes you can explain. Sometimes people don't want to listen or there is a language barrier on PC EU.

TwinLamps

Real healer is Argonian, ofc. Same as real tank.

xXSilverDragonXx

Keeping it simple:

Fake tank - doesn't taunt and therefore bosses run amok constantly chasing DPS/healer. Sometimes a real tank can lose aggro briefly or bosses charge at people who are far away. But that is different and rare or momentary. Fake tanks that don't taunt are a PITA because everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to avoid it. Also is a huge headache if you apply AOE because boss keeps running around and AOEs are wasted. Most especially annoying when using Ults. I hate wasting ults.

Fake healers - don't even bother to heal or attempt to heal anyone ever. Moderately fake healers use regen only. Literally just regen. At least it is something but depending where you are or what kind of skills the other players have, an actual heal that isn't a HOT is probably better.

And of course the point that gets to most who don't like dealing with fakes is that it's one skill. If you don't want to one hand/shield then use inner fire or you could use (if magicaka) a destro staff with destructive clench (Ice only IIRC). Literally just one freaking skill. And of course taking the heat from the boss. For a healer? A resto staff if you don't have some kind of solid heal in your class. DKs have stonefist morph. Sorcs have the twilight (two slots there) so might be better to use combat prayer or illustrious healing. Templars have so many choices. Same with wardens. NBs have a few but they have to be morphed for those heals. Same with DK actually. Every class has some kind of heal for the group. Might not be stellar, but baring some of the more aggressive DLC, class heals should do reasonably well presuming players have self heals which they always should have in dungeon pugs.

FeedbackOnly

Maybe we need a test dungeon for role badge

WrathOfInnos

In random normals I'm fine with any healer with at least one ability that heals the group, and tanks that taunt bosses. If they don't meet this minimum they are fake. I have no desire to hold all the boss aggro or slot self heals because someone isn't doing their job.

Obviously there's a lot more than makes a good tank or healer, with buffs/debuffs, gear and situational awareness, but we can't expect too much in randoms.

RedTalon

For me since mainly play tanks, have been called a fake tnak once or twice, cause got into a group with truly glass cannon dps once or twice. You know the type that spam all their skills non stop and have no real cool downs cause they dumped everything into one thing and get one shot by aoes but it really is a matter of view point

Arthtur

Fake tank - doesnt taunt and dies all the time
Fake healer - doesnt heal at all and doesnt provide any synergies for sustain
Fake DD - deals less damage than tank in support sets (<6k)

And my experience with this is from vDLC dungeons when i was still using DF.

xaraan

For me its someone that does what needs to be done for their role. If you wanna play a healer that does mostly damage, I don't care, but it would be nice if you were keeping rapid regen up (or some other HoT) on everyone while you fought and maybe having a burst heal handy if needed. For a tank, you taunt stuff that needs to be taunted and don't fall over when you take a big hit, I'm fine with that. If you are doing that in a damagy-bow build, more power to you.

I'm not super worried about everyone being min-maxed for their role when I'm pugging. For more hardcore runs like trying to do trifectas and stuff people will use pre-made groups anyway, so when I'm pugging it, I just expect the basics.

The problem is, a lot of players either, aren't capable of that - they try to do a damagey tank and forget about the tanking part half way through a boss, or the healer forgets to pay attention to heals, etc. Or worse, some don't bother even trying and just slot the role to queue in and don't heal or taunt anything. And then some DDs don't realize this until its too late and the fight is twice as hard as it needed to be for them, etc.

I get how the queues can be a pain, but when I queue as tank, I use my tank. And fights go just as fast if you buff the other dps well, debuff the enemy, group up the ads, hold the boss without having to kite it out, help the healer ensure the others are dying all the time, etc. Faster than having an extra dps usually. And it's not hard to throw together an actual tank build, especially for basic dungeon runs. So it's worth it IMO, especially now that players have the armory to change builds more completely than just gear swapping.

But the answer to the question for most players in this thread seems to be, just do the basic, healers - throw out a HoT and try to have a burst heal handy just in case and tanks - taunt stuff and don't die when you get hit by it and try to hold it still. Not a high bar.

Amottica

A tank has a taunt, at minimum, and uses it to keep the attention of bosses and strong mobs. A healer has at least one heal for healing others, at minimum, and uses it to heal the group. Anything else a person brings to the table in addition to this is a plus, but not a requirement, as long as they meet that minimum requirement.

A fake in either role does not meet that definition which is why they are fake.

In an organized group additional requirements may be demanded but when asking for a random group the above is the specific definition for real vs fake.

Merforum

Interestingly using the fake tank/healer terminology has become polarizing. Because the people who do it will come on here to defend it and start making up stuff like fake DPS to distract from the conversation.

I think the correct terminology is SPEEDRUNNER. You have people IN ALL ROLES who want to blow through the dungeon as fast as possible for the daily rewards. THE problem is speedtunning, not FAKE stuff per se. The FAKE comes in when you have the really inconsiderate DDs who want to SKIP ahead of all other DDs in queue, so they just queue up as tank or healer, with NO INTENTION of fulfilling those roles. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

xaraan

Merforum wrote: »

Interestingly using the fake tank/healer terminology has become polarizing. Because the people who do it will come on here to defend it and start making up stuff like fake DPS to distract from the conversation.

I think the correct terminology is SPEEDRUNNER. You have people IN ALL ROLES who want to blow through the dungeon as fast as possible for the daily rewards. THE problem is speedtunning, not FAKE stuff per se. The FAKE comes in when you have the really inconsiderate DDs who want to SKIP ahead of all other DDs in queue, so they just queue up as tank or healer, with NO INTENTION of fulfilling those roles. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

I don't disagree with most of your statement, but I admit I've been one of the players to use the "fake DPS" phrase plenty. And I've never queued as anything but what I am (usually a tank b/c I've always tanked a lot). So don't assume it's a distraction or made up IMO. When I first said it (and I had never seen anyone say it before) it was because as a full tank, I've been stuck with very very very bad DPS that were not capable of completely a basic dungeon.

Again though, my requirements are as basic as they would be in my previous answer for tanking and healing. Just do enough damage to kill the stuff and complete the content in a reasonable time (I don't care about speeding through). I don't care if you are new and slower, if you are at least doing enough damage to kill stuff and will listen to descriptions of mechanics, I'm good.

So I'm sure there are some that use it in the fashion you described, but I want to point out there are very legitimate reason to be concerned about 'fake dps'. Any player complaining about other roles, should also make sure they are at least passable in their own.

Merforum

xaraan wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Interestingly using the fake tank/healer terminology has become polarizing. Because the people who do it will come on here to defend it and start making up stuff like fake DPS to distract from the conversation.

I think the correct terminology is SPEEDRUNNER. You have people IN ALL ROLES who want to blow through the dungeon as fast as possible for the daily rewards. THE problem is speedtunning, not FAKE stuff per se. The FAKE comes in when you have the really inconsiderate DDs who want to SKIP ahead of all other DDs in queue, so they just queue up as tank or healer, with NO INTENTION of fulfilling those roles. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

I don't disagree with most of your statement, but I admit I've been one of the players to use the "fake DPS" phrase plenty. And I've never queued as anything but what I am (usually a tank b/c I've always tanked a lot). So don't assume it's a distraction or made up IMO. When I first said it (and I had never seen anyone say it before) it was because as a full tank, I've been stuck with very very very bad DPS that were not capable of completely a basic dungeon.

Again though, my requirements are as basic as they would be in my previous answer for tanking and healing. Just do enough damage to kill the stuff and complete the content in a reasonable time (I don't care about speeding through). I don't care if you are new and slower, if you are at least doing enough damage to kill stuff and will listen to descriptions of mechanics, I'm good.

So I'm sure there are some that use it in the fashion you described, but I want to point out there are very legitimate reason to be concerned about 'fake dps'. Any player complaining about other roles, should also make sure they are at least passable in their own.

There is definitely a problem with LOW DPS or inexperienced DDs especially in VET but that is a totally different topic. You wouldn't use FAKE to describe those DDs, the only reason to use FAKE is as a distraction. Because the aren't actually tanks/healers who queue as DD.

BTW I forgot to include some potential fixes for the actual FAKE tank/healer issue, I mean SPEEDRUN issue.

1. change the reward for Normal daily dungeon to 1-2 transmutes, in fact, swap that reward with the daily BG queue (put 10 or 4-10 transmute), this will reduce fakes in dungeon and increase pop of BG WIN WIN

2. add a 4th option for players to select, tank, healer, DD, SPEEDRUNNER, where speedrunner is anything goes as far as roles and they always only get grouped together

3. allow SOLO, SOLO with companion, DUO, DUO with companions, do random dailies also, remove 4 man requirement, BTW instead of changing the whole system it can just check if you have a companion out, player and 2 companions, it automatically let's you in dungeon without finding other players

4. allow player to use the 'BLOCK' function to not only remove others from their chat, but blocked people should be excluded from any DF or BG groups, this puts the power into the hands of individual players where you can block or unblock at will

RisenEclipse

Tbh I only ever really notice if there is a fake tank lol because usually the boss is aggroed on me and no one is taunting... obvious clue that we don't have a tank in the party. For healers... I never really notice fake healers, as I have a crippling mistrust of healers and have placed massive self healing on my bar. Sry any real healers out there!

When you are placed as a specific role, you MUST at least do that role for your group. If you are the group healer you must heal the others in your group. If you are the tank, you must hold aggro on the enemies. Dps must damage the enemies.

Even if you're a hybrid, you must fulfill your role first and foremost. Sure you can heal as a dps in between attacking. Or dps as a healer in between healing (don't try to tank when there already is a tank). But you must do your group role for the group first.

Fake dps do not exist. In the same way as some... ignorant healers and tanks get mislabeled as "fake" roles. They're just doing their role bad. Not faking. Fake roles only happen when the person ques into that roll without any intention of fulfilling that role for the group. No, just healing yourself does not make you the healer. You must heal everyone. So that's how you tell the difference between them.

vgabor

non-fake tank: keep aggro and survive it
non-fake healer: heal the group if/when needed

It's that simple. If you can do at least the basics for your role and you have the intention to actually fulfil your role then you're not faking it.

Ishtarknows

Merforum wrote: »

You wouldn't use FAKE to describe those DDs, the only reason to use FAKE is as a distraction. Because the aren't actually tanks/healers who queue as DD.

I disagree, there are enough heavy armour wearing, sword and shield toting players who queue as DD, or who then whip out a resto staff to heavy attack (because it gives more resources lol). If you're turning up in tank gear or back barring healer gear you're hardly going into the dungeon with the mentality of "doing as much damage as I can" and therefore you're not fulfilling your role.

Also can you really say solo when you bring along a companion? Hmm

Gaebriel0410

"Fake tank" is what tryhards will scream at you when they die to some mechanic, or almost kill you by dragging said mechanic right in your face. In my experience people who type furiously to point fingers when dead are usually terrible themselves.

Both me and a friend had that happen lately with some rando, in a 3/4 premade no less. Both of us tank vet hard modes no problem so it was hilarious to us, but it is rather discouraging to see that attitude.

Exactly that weird expectation to do everything perfectly the first time you do a dungeon, has kept me from trying dungeons for years and years.

EozZoe1989

i ignore the mean people .. people are mean in this game not all the time but some ..
rage quitting happens i know it does -- but why people get angry over a game it makes me cry laugher lol..
i help alot people and they dont help back .. its a issue but dont get ego on it or do solo in game lol--
waiting for delve bosses at night and map bosses is hard so have do in mornings..
but thats life ..
but still love game if people mean its not going to stop me from playing enjoying game ..
hell yes

Heydan_Seegil

fred4 wrote: »

Heydan_Seegil wrote: »

But then that brings us back to a good tank. A good tank doesn't need to dodge and ruin AOEs but pulling things out of them. They should be solid like a stone pillar and keep everything taunted and in the AOE so the party can maximize DPS and heals.

Knowing the exact mechanics is a problem. You run into problems in PUGs that you may never experience in high DPS groups. For example, the giant Daedroth in Blessed Crucible 2 constantly spits out fire AOE that covers the ground. If the group can burn him down, that is not a problem. If the group is low DPS, the tank eventually has to move. Those AOE fire blobs stack on top of each other. At some point outhealing that becomes impossible.

The last fight in Coral Aerie, there was some element to that where your health bar goes blue. This was not described on Xynode when I looked relatively recently. Don't even get me started on Alcast. Those content creators do not experience the full mechanics of every dungeon, because their DPS is too high compared to a marginal group.

I'm a PvPer, new to PvE tanking, but I've done this for about 6 months now. I do not go to study up on every random dungeon I could face nor would that cover everything - see above. Some of them I've only done once on vet. Half of the DLC dungeons I've probably never done on hard mode. When I'm in a place I don't fully understand the mechanics in, I fret. To what extent can I stand in red and keep the boss in one place? When the salamanders in BDV enrage the first boss and everything goes to s, is it my fault for dying? Do I range taunt them, or not? (I now know not to.) Even when you know the mechanics of something like that first Black Drake Villa boss and you start dodge rolling as a tank, because you know the DDs failed to keep the salamanders away from the boss and he is enraged, you get accused of being a bad tank by an ignorant PUG. Sometimes you can explain. Sometimes people don't want to listen or there is a language barrier on PC EU.

Maybe but I've never had that experience. Although I am running these bars:

1 - Renewing Animation, Beckoning Armor, Resistant Flesh, Immovable, Spiked Bone Shield, Hexproof

2 - Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, Ransacked, Deep Slash, Inner Beast, Silver Leash (Will be replaced with Imbue weapon eventually)

Hexproof let's me remove debunks like fire and stuff and I have two magic slots so I can spam it easily. I like being unkillable but of course my DPS sucks. Like it really sucks. I cannot do anything but soak damage.

newtinmpls

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone trying to calling out the 80k DPS who burned down all the bosses in minutes just because he queued as a tank.

If the tank isn't taunting, and at least doing some attempt at a lockdown so that the DPS' can burn down mobs, then I would call them a fake tank.

This is especially annoying in lowbie dungeons because a lot of people there are trying to learn or hone their roles.

Kahnak wrote: »

The thing that most people don't realize, because they don't understand the game, is that all of the damage you think you're adding is completely nullified by the fact that:

a) the boss is moving out of all of the AOE's and ultimates that are being used
b) top DPS are being chased by a boss that can potentially one shot them in some cases, so they are dodge rolling and running instead of doing damage
c) in a lot of cases a competent healer is having a difficult time keeping up buffs because he's chasing around the DD's or spam healing the person being chased because they don't have the mitigation to take boss damage.

It's not clever. It's not making the dungeon go faster. You're just imposing on a group of strangers by subverting the system and making what should generally be a short dungeon run take longer because you couldn't wait a couple of extra minutes in queue.

Very well said!!

newtinmpls

fred4 wrote: »

The last fight in Coral Aerie, there was some element to that where your health bar goes blue. This was not described on Xynode when I looked relatively recently. Don't even get me started on Alcast. Those content creators do not experience the full mechanics of every dungeon, because their DPS is too high compared to a marginal group.

Yes, our group only watches Alcast to laugh and speculate about what he missed. Don't get me wrong, he is a great player; just a crap instructor for anyone who is not amazingly skilled.

Love the dude - he is smart he is funny and his commentaries on the Natch Potes are NOT to be missed. But unless you are in the elite BiS highly twitch skilled group, you will find trouble that he never noticed or forgot to mention because his incredibly high DPS skills just simply never registered it as existing, much less noted it as a problem.

Merforum wrote: »

I think the correct terminology is SPEEDRUNNER. You have people IN ALL ROLES who want to blow through the dungeon as fast as possible for the daily rewards. .

Worst example I saw was there were three of us going into what should have been an okay dungeon (we were playing with lowbies), the SPEEDRUNNER (aka jerk) gathered up so many mobs we got killed, started a boss fight - can't rez during a boss fight - and apparently dragged bosses - I don't even know how the unprintable sunuva unprintable managed it - but there were were unable to rez and the "dungeon completed" bumped from dungeon before we could rez we never got transmutes or any loot from the bosses.

FeedbackOnly

fred4 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

I miss the days when tanks had to actually be tanky and healers actually healed

ZOS periodically downgrade content. The first time I became aware of this was when the difficulty of mobs in Craglorn and IC was drastically nerfed years ago. I believe the logic behind this must have been something like: "Well, the high-end players have probably had enough of this now, so let's open it up to less accomplished players who couldn't do it before." While Craglorn was an obvious example, more generally this happens via power creep from CP and, most notably, new mythics. Old content becomes easier. New content, by and large, takes the power creep into account and is harder.

The days when tanks actually had to be tanky and healers actually healed are still here. It's just, you have to go into a newer DLC dungeon, possibly on hard mode, to experience that. I'm not too sure about healers, but tanks are definitely needed. I suspect the healer role is more dependent on how self-sufficient the tank and DDs are, which is why some expect healers to also buff the group's damage, as they do from tanks. Once you're comfortable with mechanics and survival, the game becomes about group synergy and some sets have established themselves in the mind of the playerbase as belonging to certain roles. Minor Courage from the tank via Yolnahkriin and Major Courage via Spell Power Cure or Olorime from the healer, for example. Those should be fairly safe bets to wear without overlap in a random group.

When you think about it, the game started off with few dungeons. As more were added we now have a greater spread of difficulty, not just due to having normal, vet, and hard mode, but due to the above factors. We probably still have the same number of really hard dungeons we had at the beginning of the game. ZOS used the content growth to provide more difficulty levels, addressing one of the early criticisms, rather than making everything really hard. Of course the other thing is the "play as you want" thing. That's arguably a blessing and a curse as it allows roles to blur or characters to be self-sufficient and rounded, if they so choose.

I play a tank that is essentially a solo build, though tilted quite heavily towards the actual tank role. It is a proper tank as far as I'm concerned, even though it is a Brawler build. I am able to solo essentially all normal and non-DLC vet dungeons with it, even hard modes. The cutoff point where I switch over, via gear change, to a conventional tank with 1H+S and Yolnahkriin is basically vet DLC dungeons. The Brawler build is still useful in those and even excels at certain fights over a conventional tank, but on average I find the 1H+S build better at that level. You do tend to get somewhat better PUGs in that content too, which actually benefit from you wearing a buff set. At the lower levels the capability of PUGs really varies. In some cases I literally carry the group in terms of tanking and damage, or it would fail.

I think you can't win with a single build. The spread of what you're required to do is too large. Sometimes you need to carry the group - or at least that's one way to succeed - in which case playing a "fake"-something helps. At other times it's better to be the enabler via buff sets, via debuffing the boss, via pulling adds in. If a PUG fails, it tends to disband quickly or blame may start flying around, whether justified or not. If a group succeeds, most people don't question how that happened. Sometimes you can't win in the minds of other people, no matter what. I've been accused by a healer for moving to much, even when I'm doing mechanics, because I see the DDs aren't doing their jobs. Once I was vehemently abused for playing the Brawler variation of my build by a very competent player. Sometimes such players insist on attempting hard modes I have never done. When I'm grappling with mechanics I don't understand, that's when PUG members usually show zero understanding. The fact that you're playing a non-standard build, down to details such as not wearing a buff set from the usual shortlist, that can create a prejudice among them. There is usually no scope for exploration, for finding solutions tailored to the current group. PUGs are only interested in getting the job done and collecting their 10 daily transmutes. At veteran hard mode, if they're inconsiderate or want to find a reason to put you down. The solution to that is being competent. If you are that, if you are on a comfortable build or you know every mechanic to the point where you make zero mistakes, you get very little stick for being a "fake"-something.

Part of the problem is Lowe hps requirements. Even DPS can just slot 1 self heal for the group and be done with healer role.

The requirements to be healer are far to low in the current state of game. Not to mention pale order makes it worse

kadar

Tesman85 wrote: »

In the forums one often sees posts about fake healers and tanks in dungeons. It is obvious that a dps-build without heal/tanking skills slotted is a fake. But with anything else a question arises: What it requires for the role to be "real"? Should the build be exclusively made for the specific role? Or is a hybrid or dps-build with a few heal/tank skills in the backbar sufficient? Both the healer and especially the tank are somewhat relative concepts, after all.

This is a somewhat personal question for me, since I recently took the dive into pug group dungeoneering. My character for that is a solo magsorc build that has a dd frontbar, healing backbar and physical/spell protection in the excess of 20 000 even without buffs (so a bit of tank in the mix, too). With trash mobs I act as a third dps (unless someone seems to need healing, then I whip out the resto bar) and switch to mainly using the heal bar with only resto staff skills when facing bosses. Is this proper etiquette, or should I stick to healing only? I have to admit that I queue as a healer partly to cut down the waiting time, but still I wouldn't want to be a hindrance or be called a fake.

A real tank has a taunt fullstop. A real healer can keep the group alive. Ez pz.

FeedbackOnly

kadar wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

In the forums one often sees posts about fake healers and tanks in dungeons. It is obvious that a dps-build without heal/tanking skills slotted is a fake. But with anything else a question arises: What it requires for the role to be "real"? Should the build be exclusively made for the specific role? Or is a hybrid or dps-build with a few heal/tank skills in the backbar sufficient? Both the healer and especially the tank are somewhat relative concepts, after all.

This is a somewhat personal question for me, since I recently took the dive into pug group dungeoneering. My character for that is a solo magsorc build that has a dd frontbar, healing backbar and physical/spell protection in the excess of 20 000 even without buffs (so a bit of tank in the mix, too). With trash mobs I act as a third dps (unless someone seems to need healing, then I whip out the resto bar) and switch to mainly using the heal bar with only resto staff skills when facing bosses. Is this proper etiquette, or should I stick to healing only? I have to admit that I queue as a healer partly to cut down the waiting time, but still I wouldn't want to be a hindrance or be called a fake.

A real tank has a taunt fullstop. A real healer can keep the group alive. Ez pz.

Is taunt important though is the question. Most of the bosses seem to be able hold aggro in light amour