Too much on Oakensoul

Zezin

Please change Major force and Berserk to their minor counterparts, this mythic has got the equivalent of 3 5-piece sets active at all times, it's too much.

Zezin

and that's only counting 3 of the buffs it gives.

merpins

Zezin wrote: »

and that's only counting 3 of the buffs it gives.

Keep Major Berserk, it's one of the only redeeming factor of the ring. Change Major Courage to Minor Courage instead. I think Major Force could be Minor Force though. I think it's fine with Major Force, but wouldn't hurt to be Minor, I mean.

buttaface

None of the complaints about this latest version of Oakensoul being OP -ever- include -all- the tradeoffs to get the ring buffs. This OP is no exception with the fallacious "3 5 piece sets" without mention of any of the severe tradeoffs as necessary context. As a matter of fact and not opinion, many of the skills back barred in a majority of common builds are by themselves the equivalent of 5 piece set bonuses. That fact must be dealt with before premature complaining.

Hotdog_23

Changes looks good in version 3. Just wish they would add Major expedition also for PVE. Of course, let that part of major expedition be disabled in PVP areas. To addicted to the wild hunt ring for solo play, lol.

Stay safe

remosito

Zezin wrote: »

it's too much.

got any parses or vids showing how exactly it's too much?

not seen any yet.

and proof is in the pudding as they say.. well at least I think they do... and not in the recipe.. or some hobby cook thinking that's to many ingredient while reading the recipe... .

Faylestar

remosito wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

it's too much.

got any parses or vids showing how exactly it's too much?

There are some in the other thread.

Ring is parsing at a staggering... ~80% of what kilt is.

so overly good that it isnt even good enough to be in the same league as the nerfed version of currently used mythics.

Iron_Warrior

buttaface wrote: »

None of the complaints about this latest version of Oakensoul being OP -ever- include -all- the tradeoffs to get the ring buffs. This OP is no exception with the fallacious "3 5 piece sets" without mention of any of the severe tradeoffs as necessary context. As a matter of fact and not opinion, many of the skills back barred in a majority of common builds are by themselves the equivalent of 5 piece set bonuses. That fact must be dealt with before premature complaining.

Exactly, they pretend there are no drawbacks to this set. You are missing 5 slots that could've been used for dots, to get the buffs from this mythic! Speaking in op's language, it's like losing 5 pillars of nirn sets, or other proc sets. How is that not a big enough drawback in your eyes? It's a deal breaker for me! If you still want to get serious, the 2 bar build is still the way to go but this mythic is Zenimax's golden ticket to reduce the out of control gap between low end and high end players. I don't know maybe you are right, then don't tell, show! The first version of of the ring was op and the players actually showed it by posting 120k+ and even 130k+ parses. So unless i see some proof of how op this mythic is, it remains balanced in my eyes.

p00tx

You guys are just never happy This is actually a really nice ring for easy solo content runs, and not every single mythic has to be BiS for everyone.

Merforum

buttaface wrote: »

None of the complaints about this latest version of Oakensoul being OP -ever- include -all- the tradeoffs to get the ring buffs. This OP is no exception with the fallacious "3 5 piece sets" without mention of any of the severe tradeoffs as necessary context. As a matter of fact and not opinion, many of the skills back barred in a majority of common builds are by themselves the equivalent of 5 piece set bonuses. That fact must be dealt with before premature complaining.

Exactly right, what should be said is this is ALMOST the equivalent of 5 abilities on the bar. But here is why it is very much worse than people make it out to be. Many of those barred abilities give the BUFF FOR FREE, ALL of them have a great effects even more than the buffs if you use it. I was doing some BGs today and realized in a 1 bar setup I won't be able to slot anything to detect NBs, I'll have to start using detect pots. Plus you can't get 5-5-2-1 setup, best you can do is 5-5-1 or 5-2-2-1.

Plus let's keep in mind MOST PVPers are totally used to having 1 bar for Offense and 1 bar for defense, I honestly don't know if they can give that up. SO no way this becomes OP item everyone has to use. I will use it even with all the drawbacks just because my bar swapping is so bad, I simply can't keep the buffs and heals up continuously without having finger ache and dying anyway. But I can see me doing better with 1 bar and bypassing some folks who are just barely as good as me now and might be reason for some complaints.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. It is not a rocket science to figure out that Oakensoul is kinda busted. I mean just compare it to what WW buffs & passives are... Oakensoul actually gives you more...

The only difference is that instead of getting stamina bonus & movement bonus you get Major Force & Major Heroism. On top of that, you get all of the buffs at the same time, while WW has to choose depending on the Hircine's Bounty they pick. One gives you Berserk, but at a cost of taking more dmg, while the other will give you minor recovery buffs (pts change). And aside from having just one bar... you don't get all of the "balancing" flaws that WW gets. It is madness

I think that Oakensoul will be a meta item for PvP. No doubt about that. The amount of broken builds it enables is staggering. Major Heroism & Major Force for example. It is a game changer. Imagine an incap spam build with a guarantee crit chance (yes, I made one on PTS). Same for the DK. Someone even mentioned that they made a Dragon Leap spam build on PTS too. Ultimate generation on DK is already high, but Heroism takes it to the next level. Imagine how it would affect proc sets that all of the sudden will get more damage & will crit more often for more dmg.

I was not considering Oakensoul seriously till I tried it on PTS. It is insane what this thing can do.

Paradoxically, I think that the initial Oakensoul (yes, the one with insane raw stats) was actually more balanced than the current version. Yes. I know it was too strong. But at least it was not enabling this many broken builds. It was just a juicy buff to raw stats. Now ? It is not giving you raw stats, but rather a lot of unique buffs that are unique for a reason.

merpins

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. It is not a rocket science to figure out that Oakensoul is kinda busted. I mean just compare it to what WW buffs & passives are... Oakensoul actually gives you more...

The only difference is that instead of getting stamina bonus & movement bonus you get Major Force & Major Heroism. On top of that, you get all of the buffs at the same time, while WW has to choose depending on the Hircine's Bounty they pick. One gives you Berserk, but at a cost of taking more dmg, while the other will give you minor recovery buffs (pts change). And aside from having just one bar... you don't get all of the "balancing" flaws that WW gets. It is madness

I think that Oakensoul will be a meta item for PvP. No doubt about that. The amount of broken builds it enables is staggering. Major Heroism & Major Force for example. It is a game changer. Imagine an incap spam build with a guarantee crit chance (yes, I made one on PTS). Same for the DK. Someone even mentioned that they made a Dragon Leap spam build on PTS too. Ultimate generation on DK is already high, but Heroism takes it to the next level. Imagine how it would affect proc sets that all of the sudden will get more damage & will crit more often for more dmg.

I was not considering Oakensoul seriously till I tried it on PTS. It is insane what this thing can do.

Paradoxically, I think that the initial Oakensoul (yes, the one with insane raw stats) was actually more balanced than the current version. Yes. I know it was too strong. But at least it was not enabling this many broken builds. It was just a juicy buff to raw stats. Now ? It is not giving you raw stats, but rather a lot of unique buffs that are unique for a reason.

How is it better now than before? Before it gave 450 w/s att, 2k crit rate, 4k all max attributes, 450 to all sustain, 5k resistance... Now it gives Major Courage which is the w/s att, which is covered by Spell Power Cure, the major crit rate and att buffs that are both given by a single potion, all the minor sustain buffs... The only new benefits is the damage reduction, 20% crit damage buff, and Berserk. Berserk and minor sustain buffs are the only ones on this list that aren't common in trials. That crit damage and berserk doesn't make up for the 2k crit damage loss and 4k all max attributes, and overall dps of builds with this ring are recording a loss of 5-10k dps in comparison to the old version of the ring. In some cases it's comparable if not a little better, but those are the outlier, not the norm.

Fact of the matter; for solo content, it might actually be stronger. And solo content hurts no one. For group content, it's significantly weaker but will still bring people up to the benchmark, which is all anyone was asking for.

Merforum

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. It is not a rocket science to figure out that Oakensoul is kinda busted. I mean just compare it to what WW buffs & passives are... Oakensoul actually gives you more...

The only difference is that instead of getting stamina bonus & movement bonus you get Major Force & Major Heroism. On top of that, you get all of the buffs at the same time, while WW has to choose depending on the Hircine's Bounty they pick. One gives you Berserk, but at a cost of taking more dmg, while the other will give you minor recovery buffs (pts change). And aside from having just one bar... you don't get all of the "balancing" flaws that WW gets. It is madness

I think that Oakensoul will be a meta item for PvP. No doubt about that. The amount of broken builds it enables is staggering. Major Heroism & Major Force for example. It is a game changer. Imagine an incap spam build with a guarantee crit chance (yes, I made one on PTS). Same for the DK. Someone even mentioned that they made a Dragon Leap spam build on PTS too. Ultimate generation on DK is already high, but Heroism takes it to the next level. Imagine how it would affect proc sets that all of the sudden will get more damage & will crit more often for more dmg.

I was not considering Oakensoul seriously till I tried it on PTS. It is insane what this thing can do.

Paradoxically, I think that the initial Oakensoul (yes, the one with insane raw stats) was actually more balanced than the current version. Yes. I know it was too strong. But at least it was not enabling this many broken builds. It was just a juicy buff to raw stats. Now ? It is not giving you raw stats, but rather a lot of unique buffs that are unique for a reason.

How is it better now than before? Before it gave 450 w/s att, 2k crit rate, 4k all max attributes, 450 to all sustain, 5k resistance... Now it gives Major Courage which is the w/s att, which is covered by Spell Power Cure, the major crit rate and att buffs that are both given by a single potion, all the minor sustain buffs... The only new benefits is the damage reduction, 20% crit damage buff, and Berserk. Berserk and minor sustain buffs are the only ones on this list that aren't common in trials. That crit damage and berserk doesn't make up for the 2k crit damage loss and 4k all max attributes, and overall dps of builds with this ring are recording a loss of 5-10k dps in comparison to the old version of the ring. In some cases it's comparable if not a little better, but those are the outlier, not the norm.

Fact of the matter; for solo content, it might actually be stronger. And solo content hurts no one. For group content, it's significantly weaker but will still bring people up to the benchmark, which is all anyone was asking for.

Check it out now people are comparing it to the currently very weak WW. I hope it is slightly better than just WW. Because nobody runs WW any more in PVP. This item will be no where near as good as a good player with a 2 bar build. But it will be a huge boost for those who are bad a 2 bar setups, and that is what people don't want, ANY COMPETITION.

Darkstorne

It's probably the mythic with the biggest drawback so far - you're giving up 5 skills, an ultimate, the potential for backbar weapon set procs, and access to an entirely different weapon's skill line (like resto for survivability). Of course the buffs need to be significant.

And it's great to see them offering a buff stick mythic like this for accessibility improvements and casual playstyles. I've long thought the game would benefit from more buffs being passively active when a skill is slotted (changing Major Brutality/Sorcery skills to function like Major Savagery/Prophecy from FG/MG trees for example) but this is still a fantastic method of achieving the same result.

I think the reason almost every other thread is about Oakensoul at the moment just goes to show how much of the playerbase values this sort of design direction, whether they intend to use it or not, since it's of clear benefit to a lot of players. It's not going to be BIS due to those heavy sacrifices, but for a lot of people it will make the game a lot more fun, and that's awesome to see.

merpins

Merforum wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. It is not a rocket science to figure out that Oakensoul is kinda busted. I mean just compare it to what WW buffs & passives are... Oakensoul actually gives you more...

The only difference is that instead of getting stamina bonus & movement bonus you get Major Force & Major Heroism. On top of that, you get all of the buffs at the same time, while WW has to choose depending on the Hircine's Bounty they pick. One gives you Berserk, but at a cost of taking more dmg, while the other will give you minor recovery buffs (pts change). And aside from having just one bar... you don't get all of the "balancing" flaws that WW gets. It is madness

I think that Oakensoul will be a meta item for PvP. No doubt about that. The amount of broken builds it enables is staggering. Major Heroism & Major Force for example. It is a game changer. Imagine an incap spam build with a guarantee crit chance (yes, I made one on PTS). Same for the DK. Someone even mentioned that they made a Dragon Leap spam build on PTS too. Ultimate generation on DK is already high, but Heroism takes it to the next level. Imagine how it would affect proc sets that all of the sudden will get more damage & will crit more often for more dmg.

I was not considering Oakensoul seriously till I tried it on PTS. It is insane what this thing can do.

Paradoxically, I think that the initial Oakensoul (yes, the one with insane raw stats) was actually more balanced than the current version. Yes. I know it was too strong. But at least it was not enabling this many broken builds. It was just a juicy buff to raw stats. Now ? It is not giving you raw stats, but rather a lot of unique buffs that are unique for a reason.

How is it better now than before? Before it gave 450 w/s att, 2k crit rate, 4k all max attributes, 450 to all sustain, 5k resistance... Now it gives Major Courage which is the w/s att, which is covered by Spell Power Cure, the major crit rate and att buffs that are both given by a single potion, all the minor sustain buffs... The only new benefits is the damage reduction, 20% crit damage buff, and Berserk. Berserk and minor sustain buffs are the only ones on this list that aren't common in trials. That crit damage and berserk doesn't make up for the 2k crit damage loss and 4k all max attributes, and overall dps of builds with this ring are recording a loss of 5-10k dps in comparison to the old version of the ring. In some cases it's comparable if not a little better, but those are the outlier, not the norm.

Fact of the matter; for solo content, it might actually be stronger. And solo content hurts no one. For group content, it's significantly weaker but will still bring people up to the benchmark, which is all anyone was asking for.

Check it out now people are comparing it to the currently very weak WW. I hope it is slightly better than just WW. Because nobody runs WW any more in PVP. This item will be no where near as good as a good player with a 2 bar build. But it will be a huge boost for those who are bad a 2 bar setups, and that is what people don't want, ANY COMPETITION.

Exactly. It's not really there as an alternative playstyle that will make you deal as much damage as the top end. It's an alternative playstyle that'll just get you up to the benchmark needed to participate in end-game content, for people that can't otherwise for various reasons. It is an alternative playstyle, but not one that will ever be competitive at top level gameplay in group content. We might see someone top a solo arena chart with the ring, but I don't expect it to last. Solo is a different beast than group content after all, and one bar probably won't get you there, but it might. I doubt it.

Anyway, it's great where it's at. I'd like to see the max stats come back, even if it's just in a nerfed state. Even if it's just some of the HP. Totally unnecessary, the ring is in a great place, but it would be nice.

Tommy_The_Gun

Merforum wrote: »

Check it out now people are comparing it to the currently very weak WW. I hope it is slightly better than just WW. Because nobody runs WW any more in PVP. This item will be no where near as good as a good player with a 2 bar build. But it will be a huge boost for those who are bad a 2 bar setups, and that is what people don't want, ANY COMPETITION.

Yeah... but don't you think it should be kinda a "red warning flag" if a 1 piece set gives you stronger bonuses than all of the WW passives & buffs combined ? I mean, listen to how it sounds. I don't think you can say it & keep a straight face lol

Aside from 1 bar, none of the drawbacks that WW normally has are there. You can stack it with other passives that are not accessible / disabled in WW form. On top of that you are not limited to a preset of skills with no ulti, but you can slot whatever abilities you want.

Aside from WW being even more useless next patch, as no one sane will run it (I kinda got used to it, that WW is treated neglectfully, more like an obstacle rather than a class), Oakensoul on a non-ww will be kinda broken imho. Maybe not in PvE solo or PvE group play, but for PVP ? It will be. Especially No CP / No proc - it will be meta. Mainly for solo play, but who knows. As far as I can tell, ball groups for example can run 1-bar builds effectively, as they consist of highly specialized heal / purge spam bots.

^ This is at least what I think will happen, based on my PTS tests & experience.

divnyi

@Tommy_The_Gun you are looking for this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/604558/is-it-time-to-buff-ww

And I don't see why this set would be broken on WW. Nothing fundamentally changed on WW. You need health and sustain to exist on the battlefield. That means heavy armor that is bad for sustain. That means wasting slots for sustain sets. It's not gonna be damage character. Major Force is wasted on WW. Major Heroism is wasted on WW.

Tommy_The_Gun

divnyi wrote: »

@Tommy_The_Gun you are looking for this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/604558/is-it-time-to-buff-ww

And I don't see why this set would be broken on WW. Nothing fundamentally changed on WW. You need health and sustain to exist on the battlefield. That means heavy armor that is bad for sustain. That means wasting slots for sustain sets. It's not gonna be damage character. Major Force is wasted on WW. Major Heroism is wasted on WW.

WW needing some love is one thing. Agree on that. But that is not my point. My point is basically this:

Because of Oakensoul existence... why would I want to run Werewolf ever again ? Why would I want to play the tedious "feeding mini-game" to keep my buffs & passives up ? Why would I ever want to do all that... if I can just slap Oakensoul & have it permanently ? Why would I ever want to try to keep WW up for as long as possible...
...if Oakensoul gives me basically a permanent WW form passives & buffs ? But it does not stop there, on top of that I can still slot any abilities I want & I still have access to every passive. Weapon, class, guild. And I don't take more damage from Poison & Fighters Guild. So once again... why would anyone use WW next patch & many patches after ?

Tell me at least one good reason. Sure I can run other mythic... but it is still heavily inferior to 1 bar non-ww with Oakensoul. The only reason that comes to my mind is RP & Cosmetic... but even then I have this in my collection:
https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/werewolf-lord/
So I might as well run that instead

It seems that we currently have Oakensoul in its final form. I doubt they will change anything on next week PTS. So now I hope you do understand why I am kinda upset 😞

divnyi

@Tommy_The_Gun because WW is not about passives, it's about abilities you can't have access otherwise. Minor+Major Defile AoE. 50% HP heal. AoE stun.

Ok well the rest are pretty sad, but that's exactly the reason why they should buff it.

Veinblood1965

OMG the ring is not even live in production yet and already 45 million Oaken Ring this or that posts. Maybe ZoS should start an Oaken Ring and Fake Tank Category in these forums?

jaws343

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

OMG the ring is not even live in production yet and already 45 million Oaken Ring this or that posts. Maybe ZoS should start an Oaken Ring and Fake Tank Category in these forums?

It's on the PTS, and this is the PTS section of the forums.

DrSlaughtr

"you lose access to 5 skills" isn't a trade off when the mythic replaces all your buff skills. This will be abused by WWs, DK heavy attack builds and gankers in pvp. The dungeon boss isn't going to flood the forum with complaints if you use a busted mythic to kill it. Other players will.

Mr_Stach

Oh.... I thought this was a post about there being too many posts on Oakensoul......

That's cool. Cheers Y'all

Merforum

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. It is not a rocket science to figure out that Oakensoul is kinda busted. I mean just compare it to what WW buffs & passives are... Oakensoul actually gives you more...

The only difference is that instead of getting stamina bonus & movement bonus you get Major Force & Major Heroism. On top of that, you get all of the buffs at the same time, while WW has to choose depending on the Hircine's Bounty they pick. One gives you Berserk, but at a cost of taking more dmg, while the other will give you minor recovery buffs (pts change). And aside from having just one bar... you don't get all of the "balancing" flaws that WW gets. It is madness

I think that Oakensoul will be a meta item for PvP. No doubt about that. The amount of broken builds it enables is staggering. Major Heroism & Major Force for example. It is a game changer. Imagine an incap spam build with a guarantee crit chance (yes, I made one on PTS). Same for the DK. Someone even mentioned that they made a Dragon Leap spam build on PTS too. Ultimate generation on DK is already high, but Heroism takes it to the next level. Imagine how it would affect proc sets that all of the sudden will get more damage & will crit more often for more dmg.

I was not considering Oakensoul seriously till I tried it on PTS. It is insane what this thing can do.

Paradoxically, I think that the initial Oakensoul (yes, the one with insane raw stats) was actually more balanced than the current version. Yes. I know it was too strong. But at least it was not enabling this many broken builds. It was just a juicy buff to raw stats. Now ? It is not giving you raw stats, but rather a lot of unique buffs that are unique for a reason.

How is it better now than before? Before it gave 450 w/s att, 2k crit rate, 4k all max attributes, 450 to all sustain, 5k resistance... Now it gives Major Courage which is the w/s att, which is covered by Spell Power Cure, the major crit rate and att buffs that are both given by a single potion, all the minor sustain buffs... The only new benefits is the damage reduction, 20% crit damage buff, and Berserk. Berserk and minor sustain buffs are the only ones on this list that aren't common in trials. That crit damage and berserk doesn't make up for the 2k crit damage loss and 4k all max attributes, and overall dps of builds with this ring are recording a loss of 5-10k dps in comparison to the old version of the ring. In some cases it's comparable if not a little better, but those are the outlier, not the norm.

Fact of the matter; for solo content, it might actually be stronger. And solo content hurts no one. For group content, it's significantly weaker but will still bring people up to the benchmark, which is all anyone was asking for.

Check it out now people are comparing it to the currently very weak WW. I hope it is slightly better than just WW. Because nobody runs WW any more in PVP. This item will be no where near as good as a good player with a 2 bar build. But it will be a huge boost for those who are bad a 2 bar setups, and that is what people don't want, ANY COMPETITION.

Exactly. It's not really there as an alternative playstyle that will make you deal as much damage as the top end. It's an alternative playstyle that'll just get you up to the benchmark needed to participate in end-game content, for people that can't otherwise for various reasons. It is an alternative playstyle, but not one that will ever be competitive at top level gameplay in group content. We might see someone top a solo arena chart with the ring, but I don't expect it to last. Solo is a different beast than group content after all, and one bar probably won't get you there, but it might. I doubt it.

Anyway, it's great where it's at. I'd like to see the max stats come back, even if it's just in a nerfed state. Even if it's just some of the HP. Totally unnecessary, the ring is in a great place, but it would be nice.

EXACTLY RIGHT. Just for people like me who like numbers. If a typical high end 2 bar build is at 100 (random numbers just for illustration) and the same person can max out at about 80 with a 1 bar build, this ring ONLY brings that 1 bar build to 85 MAX. THAT IS THE ONLY STAT NEEDED TO SAY THIS IS NOT OP.

BUT there is a large segment of PVPer who are NOT AT 100, they're MAX is more like 40-70. Guess what, there's a ton of people like me who are at about 40-50. What this ring will do is bring us to 40-70, and it even makes it easier option for people already at 40-70. WIN WIN.

The second segment who might complain is the 1vXers who may be at 100 but are used to beating up on 10-40 level people, so when those 10-40 become 30-60 with this ring it will be much harder to wipe out a group. The ring achieves the competition and balance that these 2 groups are constantly talking about so there should really be no complaints.

BTW I agree with your point that removing all the mag/stam/health was weird change, I mean it went from pretty high 3737 to zero. I would say it doesn't need any more buffs, especially doesn't need expedition (as that would be too much in PVP), but to stay with the named buffs if they added one more 'minor toughness-10% health' seems like a perfect one.

Stx

This item is busted OP for solo pve, pvp, and possibly dungeons too.

I love how the people defending this abomination are using group pve dps parses to show why its bad... hello!? That's not what it's for!

Not only does this give you incredibly rare major buffs passively in berserk, courage, force, heroism, protection.. but it also gives you the easier ones too so the penalty of missing your backbar isn't even nearly as bad! All 5 of your frontbar skills can now be focused on abilities instead of buffs or passives.

This item will turn literally any class into a werewolf on steroids in pvp. I almost hope they don't nerf it just to watch the hilarity ensue.

merpins

Stx wrote: »

This item is busted OP for solo pve, pvp, and possibly dungeons too.

I love how the people defending this abomination are using group pve dps parses to show why its bad... hello!? That's not what it's for!

Not only does this give you incredibly rare major buffs passively in berserk, courage, force, heroism, protection.. but it also gives you the easier ones too so the penalty of missing your backbar isn't even nearly as bad! All 5 of your frontbar skills can now be focused on abilities instead of buffs or passives.

This item will turn literally any class into a werewolf on steroids in pvp. I almost hope they don't nerf it just to watch the hilarity ensue.

I also hope they don't nerf it so everyone uses it in PVP for a couple days, realizes there are better options, and then everyone stops using it. It's not optimal, and will never be optimal in PVP or PVE.

Stx

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

This item is busted OP for solo pve, pvp, and possibly dungeons too.

I love how the people defending this abomination are using group pve dps parses to show why its bad... hello!? That's not what it's for!

Not only does this give you incredibly rare major buffs passively in berserk, courage, force, heroism, protection.. but it also gives you the easier ones too so the penalty of missing your backbar isn't even nearly as bad! All 5 of your frontbar skills can now be focused on abilities instead of buffs or passives.

This item will turn literally any class into a werewolf on steroids in pvp. I almost hope they don't nerf it just to watch the hilarity ensue.

I also hope they don't nerf it so everyone uses it in PVP for a couple days, realizes there are better options, and then everyone stops using it. It's not optimal, and will never be optimal in PVP or PVE.

Okay man we will see. Going to be some hilariously broken builds using this

Mr_Stach

I think people are underestimating how much power comes from a second bar. Sure, it's gonna be strong but if you think you'll instantly be crushing everyone, that's just not gonna happen.

Merforum

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

This item is busted OP for solo pve, pvp, and possibly dungeons too.

I love how the people defending this abomination are using group pve dps parses to show why its bad... hello!? That's not what it's for!

Not only does this give you incredibly rare major buffs passively in berserk, courage, force, heroism, protection.. but it also gives you the easier ones too so the penalty of missing your backbar isn't even nearly as bad! All 5 of your frontbar skills can now be focused on abilities instead of buffs or passives.

This item will turn literally any class into a werewolf on steroids in pvp. I almost hope they don't nerf it just to watch the hilarity ensue.

I also hope they don't nerf it so everyone uses it in PVP for a couple days, realizes there are better options, and then everyone stops using it. It's not optimal, and will never be optimal in PVP or PVE.

I jumped back in BGs for the past couple days and here's what I noticed. I DO actually have a bigger problem swapping bars than I thought but when that doesn't happen I am better than a lot of people. For instance, one encounter I'll try to swap it won't work or it swaps 2 times, i'll streak into a wall or hit an expensive skill a couple times because I thought it was my spammable, and maybe get killed. The people who kill me think I am bad. Come back after me, and bar swap and everything works fine, I kill them instead.

All those type of people which is majority are going to blame this ring because I will no longer have those issues (and they won't be killing people like me as much). Ironically using OAKEN might even make them better PVPers. But these are the primary people (and 1vXers) who will complain and I very much hope ZOS doesn't take them as seriously as they took them complainiing about proc sets, HA builds, etc.

Dracane

Mr_Stach wrote: »

if you think you'll instantly be crushing everyone, that's just not gonna happen.

You need more imagination.

chessalavakia_ESO

Merforum wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. It is not a rocket science to figure out that Oakensoul is kinda busted. I mean just compare it to what WW buffs & passives are... Oakensoul actually gives you more...

The only difference is that instead of getting stamina bonus & movement bonus you get Major Force & Major Heroism. On top of that, you get all of the buffs at the same time, while WW has to choose depending on the Hircine's Bounty they pick. One gives you Berserk, but at a cost of taking more dmg, while the other will give you minor recovery buffs (pts change). And aside from having just one bar... you don't get all of the "balancing" flaws that WW gets. It is madness

I think that Oakensoul will be a meta item for PvP. No doubt about that. The amount of broken builds it enables is staggering. Major Heroism & Major Force for example. It is a game changer. Imagine an incap spam build with a guarantee crit chance (yes, I made one on PTS). Same for the DK. Someone even mentioned that they made a Dragon Leap spam build on PTS too. Ultimate generation on DK is already high, but Heroism takes it to the next level. Imagine how it would affect proc sets that all of the sudden will get more damage & will crit more often for more dmg.

I was not considering Oakensoul seriously till I tried it on PTS. It is insane what this thing can do.

Paradoxically, I think that the initial Oakensoul (yes, the one with insane raw stats) was actually more balanced than the current version. Yes. I know it was too strong. But at least it was not enabling this many broken builds. It was just a juicy buff to raw stats. Now ? It is not giving you raw stats, but rather a lot of unique buffs that are unique for a reason.

How is it better now than before? Before it gave 450 w/s att, 2k crit rate, 4k all max attributes, 450 to all sustain, 5k resistance... Now it gives Major Courage which is the w/s att, which is covered by Spell Power Cure, the major crit rate and att buffs that are both given by a single potion, all the minor sustain buffs... The only new benefits is the damage reduction, 20% crit damage buff, and Berserk. Berserk and minor sustain buffs are the only ones on this list that aren't common in trials. That crit damage and berserk doesn't make up for the 2k crit damage loss and 4k all max attributes, and overall dps of builds with this ring are recording a loss of 5-10k dps in comparison to the old version of the ring. In some cases it's comparable if not a little better, but those are the outlier, not the norm.

Fact of the matter; for solo content, it might actually be stronger. And solo content hurts no one. For group content, it's significantly weaker but will still bring people up to the benchmark, which is all anyone was asking for.

Check it out now people are comparing it to the currently very weak WW. I hope it is slightly better than just WW. Because nobody runs WW any more in PVP. This item will be no where near as good as a good player with a 2 bar build. But it will be a huge boost for those who are bad a 2 bar setups, and that is what people don't want, ANY COMPETITION.

Exactly. It's not really there as an alternative playstyle that will make you deal as much damage as the top end. It's an alternative playstyle that'll just get you up to the benchmark needed to participate in end-game content, for people that can't otherwise for various reasons. It is an alternative playstyle, but not one that will ever be competitive at top level gameplay in group content. We might see someone top a solo arena chart with the ring, but I don't expect it to last. Solo is a different beast than group content after all, and one bar probably won't get you there, but it might. I doubt it.

Anyway, it's great where it's at. I'd like to see the max stats come back, even if it's just in a nerfed state. Even if it's just some of the HP. Totally unnecessary, the ring is in a great place, but it would be nice.

EXACTLY RIGHT. Just for people like me who like numbers. If a typical high end 2 bar build is at 100 (random numbers just for illustration) and the same person can max out at about 80 with a 1 bar build, this ring ONLY brings that 1 bar build to 85 MAX. THAT IS THE ONLY STAT NEEDED TO SAY THIS IS NOT OP.

BUT there is a large segment of PVPer who are NOT AT 100, they're MAX is more like 40-70. Guess what, there's a ton of people like me who are at about 40-50. What this ring will do is bring us to 40-70, and it even makes it easier option for people already at 40-70. WIN WIN.

The second segment who might complain is the 1vXers who may be at 100 but are used to beating up on 10-40 level people, so when those 10-40 become 30-60 with this ring it will be much harder to wipe out a group. The ring achieves the competition and balance that these 2 groups are constantly talking about so there should really be no complaints.

BTW I agree with your point that removing all the mag/stam/health was weird change, I mean it went from pretty high 3737 to zero. I would say it doesn't need any more buffs, especially doesn't need expedition (as that would be too much in PVP), but to stay with the named buffs if they added one more 'minor toughness-10% health' seems like a perfect one.

IMHO, Balancing based off of the top primarily is generally bad design. Most of the players in a game will never be at the top so it only serves to help a small section of the population.

The top section of the game is frequently the most interested in finding an edge so they are the most likely to find something that breaks the balance. The number of people on the staff of the company making the game that are actually at the top will frequently be limited which puts a damper on your ability to play test. Thus, it's likely that you will fail to produce a sustained balance at the top even if you focus everything on it.

IMHO, the ring should be an option for the average player to consider using that would be a downgrade, even trade, or minor upgrade depending on the build.

If the current design hits live and it isn't too hard to get I will be reworking the majority of my characters that care about effectiveness to run it because most of my builds are simply not drawing that much effectiveness from the second bar.