"PVP" and "Cyrodiil" Gets you Banned on Twitch

VaranisArano

Elsonso wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Those words, incidentally, can get you a forum vacation while the person who was actually engaging in abusive behavior on the forum and then reported everyone who told him his behavior was abusive skates.

What stood out to me was "everyone who told him his behavior was abusive". That would fall under flaming because we are to discuss the topic and not other posters. If they thought this poster was being abusive they should have reported their posts and let the mods handle it rather than getting themselves in hot water.

The "report them, don't tell them" has always bugged me. I am a firm believer that people should be allowed to self-correct, before the moderators come along and potentially ruin their day.

I generally take this approach too. If I have to ask someone to self-correct because they said something that bothers me (usually what I perceive as rudeness or misrepresenting what I said), then I try to make sure that the majority of my comment is on the thread topic. Usually, though not always, it's enough that the substance of my comment survives if the mods sweep through looking for back-and-forth.

I do try to ask people to self-correct, because there's been a number of times where we both were able to talk through it. There's been times I've wound up apologizing to them too! I'd rather be asked to self-correct than reported, so I try to return the favor.

Also, it's helpful for me to know that if they double down on whatever the behavior was, that's my signal to wish them a great day and head out to a different thread for a while because further conversation just won't be productive.

Finally, I understand removing those exchanges later from the moderator's perspective. As much as it may have been necessary for us to post the back-and-forth in order to get to the point where we understand each other or walk away agreeing to disagree, it's rarely edifying to anyone else not directly involved in the argument nor precisely on topic to the thread.

Dracane

It's a game, but people getting silenced in the western world in 2022 for any reason, especially something so minor and fictional, should worry us all.

starkerealm

Jaraal wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

This is not about someone being salty about facing the consequences of breaking the rules. This is about people, in this community, abusing the reporting system to silence those they disagree with, or want to harass.

The problem is that the rules are so vague. Flaming, baiting, bashing, trolling, conspiracy theories, and the like are so subjective that some things that usually pass may be actionable, depending of who is viewing, how they view it, how their day is going, etc. There's just no consistency, and that's what keeps many posters from expressing their views... regardless of how innocuous they may seem to most readers.

You're hitting a hilarious detail, in the instance I mentioned above. It wasn't until I reread the message from [Deleted User] today, that I noticed... technically a profanity filter bypass can be lumped in under, "hate speech."

Specifically, they said this (emphasis added):

[Deleted User] wrote:

2.6 Users will not transmit or facilitate distribution of content that is harmful, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, or in a reasonable person's view, objectionable. Hate speech is not tolerated at any time.

While they claimed they were citing the community rules, that's the from the ZOS terms of service, and the community rules are a little different. Those read:

Hate Speech: We take the use of hate speech very seriously in the official ESO community, and have a zero tolerance policy. Our definition of hate speech is prejudice or hateful comments, slurs, or statements that promote violence or intolerance toward others because of the following:

• Race
• Creed
• Color
• National Origin
• Gender
• Age
• Disability
• Sexual Orientation
• Lifestyle
• Any other personally identifying factors

It's really weird because most of the time when I say self-censor a bit of profanity, the moderators just replace the sequence of asterisks with, "[Snip]." (If you want to see how I actually swear, you can dig up my posts on Reddit, the mods there don't care about the occasional profanity.)

So, we have a situation where someone selectively extracted, "vulgarity is an example of hate speech," when most of the moderation team is just like, "oh, someone tried to use the only flavoring particle in English, got to edit that out." Even on my end, when it happened, I was confused.

It's entirely possible that "Hate speech is not tolerated at any time" is it's own statement, and not a continuation of the sentence that precedes it. It may have been more clear if it were it's own separate paragraph.

In the context of the original document (you can read the entire thing here), that interpretation doesn't make a lot of sense. It is a legal document, and paragraph 2.6 is very clearly delineated from paragraph 2.7 (which tells you that you're not allowed to scam other users.)

EDIT: Incidentally, you've already signed that Code of Conduct, so you may as well skim it, given you've literally signed a contract saying you'll abide by it.

Interestingly, note that 2.6 was cited against me and not 2.5.

Jaraal wrote: »

Also, it occurred to me that when a person deliberately uses a series of asterisks rather than typing the actual censored word, that individual is leaving the interpretation of it wide open in the moderator's eyes.

You're not saying anything I haven't considered, though that theory does circle back to the idea of the (now ex-)moderator grossly overreacting, based on an infraction that did not occur, which is significantly more worrying.

starkerealm

Dracane wrote: »

It's a game, but people getting silenced in the western world in 2022 for any reason, especially something so minor and fictional, should worry us all.

I HAVE BEEN SILENCED! No, you don't understand, I HAVE BEEN SILENCED! You're not listening, I HAVE BEEN SILENCED!

But, joking aside, this isn't an example to particularly worry about. ZOS does not possess the power to silence you. They can, however, show you the door if you're disruptive to their business, which is all that's happened here.

SilverBride

VaranisArano wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The "report them, don't tell them" has always bugged me. I am a firm believer that people should be allowed to self-correct, before the moderators come along and potentially ruin their day.

I generally take this approach too. If I have to ask someone to self-correct because they said something that bothers me (usually what I perceive as rudeness or misrepresenting what I said), then I try to make sure that the majority of my comment is on the thread topic. Usually, though not always, it's enough that the substance of my comment survives if the mods sweep through looking for back-and-forth.

I'm not going to take that chance, especially with how heavy handed the punishments are.

It's up to the mods to correct infractions. Correct, not punish, unless it's very offensive or there have been repeated offenses despite several warnings. In that case temporary suspensions should be attempted before anything permanent is considered. Permabans should be very rare.

starkerealm

SilverBride wrote: »

Permabans should be very rare.

As a rule, they appear to be. Users permanently getting the boot are the extreme minority of people on the boards.

spartaxoxo

I usually don't try to talk it out anymore. Although sometimes I still can't help but at least give it 1 try, because talking it out just leaves you the one in trouble. I don't try as often anymore. Although sometimes I still try depending on mild I think I can make things. Even if you succeed at making it respectfully toned, the mod may hit you for naming and shaming instead of baiting. And then send you a message about how you should be flagging insults rather than trying to work things out.

SilverBride

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Permabans should be very rare.

As a rule, they appear to be. Users permanently getting the boot are the extreme minority of people on the boards.

I wish that were true but a lot of 10 star long time posters have been permabanned. It appears that only the infractions are looked at and the thousands of constructive posts the player made over the years aren't considered. It's next to impossible to post for years and never once make a mistake, so the complete picture needs to be looked at, not just that they have a certain number of infractions so they are permabanned.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

When I see the "[Snip]" or "[edited for profanity bypass]" it draws more attention that something naughty has been said or implied than the original series of asterisks or the Saturday morning cartoon string of special characters. I'd much rather see the original special characters than a moderators edit. Having grown up with special character implying naughty words during the 50's and 60's and my kids having grown up with them they pretty much move to the background when reading the text.

VaranisArano

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The "report them, don't tell them" has always bugged me. I am a firm believer that people should be allowed to self-correct, before the moderators come along and potentially ruin their day.

I generally take this approach too. If I have to ask someone to self-correct because they said something that bothers me (usually what I perceive as rudeness or misrepresenting what I said), then I try to make sure that the majority of my comment is on the thread topic. Usually, though not always, it's enough that the substance of my comment survives if the mods sweep through looking for back-and-forth.

I'm not going to take that chance, especially with how heavy handed the punishments are.

It's up to the mods to correct infractions. Correct, not punish, unless it's very offensive or there have been repeated offenses despite several warnings. In that case temporary suspensions should be attempted before anything permanent is considered. Permabans should be very rare.

With the caveat that I can only speak for myself, I've never been warned for politely asking someone to self-correct. That part of the comment might or might not be removed by the mods later, but it's never escalated to a warning or temporary suspension.

I will say that if the mods would prefer that I report rather than ask people to self-correct, then they need to push Vanilla Forums to fix the Report option on Mobile. I cannot effectively write nor send a report on Mobile, and so a post has to be an egregious violation before I go to the effort of swapping to the desktop version on my phone to make the report and then back to mobile.

FeedbackOnly

starkerealm wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

They get to play victim while the rest of have to stay silent.

Those words, incidentally, can get you a forum vacation while the person who was actually engaging in abusive behavior on the forum and then reported everyone who told him his behavior was abusive skates.

Don't bother asking me how I know.

I don't need to ask, I think I saw it happen.

And, yeah, can confirm. @FeedbackOnly, if someone was going after you, they'd report that post for "bait," and you'd get slapped.

It's an unfortunate truth. They are hiding behind reporting for their abusive behavior.

Excessive reporting should be a flag to look at user.

spartaxoxo

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The "report them, don't tell them" has always bugged me. I am a firm believer that people should be allowed to self-correct, before the moderators come along and potentially ruin their day.

I generally take this approach too. If I have to ask someone to self-correct because they said something that bothers me (usually what I perceive as rudeness or misrepresenting what I said), then I try to make sure that the majority of my comment is on the thread topic. Usually, though not always, it's enough that the substance of my comment survives if the mods sweep through looking for back-and-forth.

I'm not going to take that chance, especially with how heavy handed the punishments are.

It's up to the mods to correct infractions. Correct, not punish, unless it's very offensive or there have been repeated offenses despite several warnings. In that case temporary suspensions should be attempted before anything permanent is considered. Permabans should be very rare.

With the caveat that I can only speak for myself, I've never been warned for politely asking someone to self-correct. That part of the comment might or might not be removed by the mods later, but it's never escalated to a warning or temporary suspension.

I will say that if the mods would prefer that I report rather than ask people to self-correct, then they need to push Vanilla Forums to fix the Report option on Mobile. I cannot effectively write nor send a report on Mobile, and so a post has to be an egregious violation before I go to the effort of swapping to the desktop version on my phone to make the report and then back to mobile.

I actually did get an unofficial warning on that.
They actually admitted the person I was responding to was baiting and that my own polite was respectful, but that it still called another user out. And thus it was naming and shaming.

They said they want it reported instead so it doesn't derail the thread.

spartaxoxo

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's an unfortunate truth. They are hiding behind reporting for their abusive behavior.

Excessive reporting should be a flag to look at user.

It's only abusive if it's not true, and they aren't digging through years old posts in your profile to find flags. If someone is legitimately being harassed by constant derogatory remarks being made about or too them, then they should be able to report without fear of repercussion. Nobody should be able to harass or gang up on a user to run them out of a thread. If a person kept getting flagged because they couldn't stop insulting someone, they are not being harassed. They are facing the consequences of repeated bad behavior.

VaranisArano

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The "report them, don't tell them" has always bugged me. I am a firm believer that people should be allowed to self-correct, before the moderators come along and potentially ruin their day.

I generally take this approach too. If I have to ask someone to self-correct because they said something that bothers me (usually what I perceive as rudeness or misrepresenting what I said), then I try to make sure that the majority of my comment is on the thread topic. Usually, though not always, it's enough that the substance of my comment survives if the mods sweep through looking for back-and-forth.

I'm not going to take that chance, especially with how heavy handed the punishments are.

It's up to the mods to correct infractions. Correct, not punish, unless it's very offensive or there have been repeated offenses despite several warnings. In that case temporary suspensions should be attempted before anything permanent is considered. Permabans should be very rare.

With the caveat that I can only speak for myself, I've never been warned for politely asking someone to self-correct. That part of the comment might or might not be removed by the mods later, but it's never escalated to a warning or temporary suspension.

I will say that if the mods would prefer that I report rather than ask people to self-correct, then they need to push Vanilla Forums to fix the Report option on Mobile. I cannot effectively write nor send a report on Mobile, and so a post has to be an egregious violation before I go to the effort of swapping to the desktop version on my phone to make the report and then back to mobile.

I actually did get an unofficial warning on that.
They actually admitted the person I was responding to was baiting and that my own polite was respectful, but that it still called another user out. And thus it was naming and shaming.

They said they want it reported instead so it doesn't derail the thread.

Thanks for sharing!

This is what trying to report my own comment looks like on Chrome (Android Mobile):


Ir looks like they've improved the "reasons why" and the nested comments parts from what we used to have, but I still can't scroll to get to the Report button at all. Which, er, makes it pretty hard to report. So I almost never do.

I know we've mentioned this to ZOS_Kevin on several occasions before, so it's a known issue at least.

SilverBride

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ir looks like they've improved the "reasons why" and the nested comments parts from what we used to have, but I still can't scroll to get to the Report button at all. Which, er, makes it pretty hard to report. So I almost never do.

I know we've mentioned this to ZOS_Kevin on several occasions before, so it's a known issue at least.

If I go to the report menu on the mobile site I see what you do. But I always check "Desktop site" in my browser menu because I don't like the way the mobile site looks. When "Desktop site" is checked I do see the report button.

spartaxoxo

Mobile

Desktop View (mobile setting)


It's the same for me. The one I can't report on is mobile, and the workaround is desktop view. Don't worry didn't flag any posts in here. Just providing pics of the interface haha

VaranisArano

Yep! If I swap to the desktop version, I can Report. But that's enough effort that I don't unless it's so offensive I can't let it go unreported in good conscience, and that's thankfully pretty rare.

FeedbackOnly

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mobile

Desktop View (mobile setting)


It's the same for me. The one I can't report on is mobile, and the workaround is desktop view. Don't worry didn't flag any posts in here. Just providing pics of the interface haha

Laughing at the thought of reporting someone is what got us here.

FeedbackOnly

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's an unfortunate truth. They are hiding behind reporting for their abusive behavior.

Excessive reporting should be a flag to look at user.

It's only abusive if it's not true, and they aren't digging through years old posts in your profile to find flags. If someone is legitimately being harassed by constant derogatory remarks being made about or too them, then they should be able to report without fear of repercussion. Nobody should be able to harass or gang up on a user to run them out of a thread. If a person kept getting flagged because they couldn't stop insulting someone, they are not being harassed. They are facing the consequences of repeated bad behavior.

It's abusive when taken out of context in what the other person is doing. Imagine a thread with 10 posts moderated. Something else is going in with user

FeedbackOnly

VaranisArano wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The "report them, don't tell them" has always bugged me. I am a firm believer that people should be allowed to self-correct, before the moderators come along and potentially ruin their day.

I generally take this approach too. If I have to ask someone to self-correct because they said something that bothers me (usually what I perceive as rudeness or misrepresenting what I said), then I try to make sure that the majority of my comment is on the thread topic. Usually, though not always, it's enough that the substance of my comment survives if the mods sweep through looking for back-and-forth.

I'm not going to take that chance, especially with how heavy handed the punishments are.

It's up to the mods to correct infractions. Correct, not punish, unless it's very offensive or there have been repeated offenses despite several warnings. In that case temporary suspensions should be attempted before anything permanent is considered. Permabans should be very rare.

With the caveat that I can only speak for myself, I've never been warned for politely asking someone to self-correct. That part of the comment might or might not be removed by the mods later, but it's never escalated to a warning or temporary suspension.

I will say that if the mods would prefer that I report rather than ask people to self-correct, then they need to push Vanilla Forums to fix the Report option on Mobile. I cannot effectively write nor send a report on Mobile, and so a post has to be an egregious violation before I go to the effort of swapping to the desktop version on my phone to make the report and then back to mobile.

I actually did get an unofficial warning on that.
They actually admitted the person I was responding to was baiting and that my own polite was respectful, but that it still called another user out. And thus it was naming and shaming.

They said they want it reported instead so it doesn't derail the thread.

Thanks for sharing!

This is what trying to report my own comment looks like on Chrome (Android Mobile):


Ir looks like they've improved the "reasons why" and the nested comments parts from what we used to have, but I still can't scroll to get to the Report button at all. Which, er, makes it pretty hard to report. So I almost never do.

I know we've mentioned this to ZOS_Kevin on several occasions before, so it's a known issue at least.

That looks a lot better

spartaxoxo

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's an unfortunate truth. They are hiding behind reporting for their abusive behavior.

Excessive reporting should be a flag to look at user.

It's only abusive if it's not true, and they aren't digging through years old posts in your profile to find flags. If someone is legitimately being harassed by constant derogatory remarks being made about or too them, then they should be able to report without fear of repercussion. Nobody should be able to harass or gang up on a user to run them out of a thread. If a person kept getting flagged because they couldn't stop insulting someone, they are not being harassed. They are facing the consequences of repeated bad behavior.

It's abusive when taken out of context in what the other person is doing. Imagine a thread with 10 posts moderated. Something else is going in with user

What do you mean taken out of the context of what the person is doing?

Something along the line of

Person A: I think they should nerf wrecking blow
Person B: You only think that because you're a noob that's bad at the game
Person B gets modded, response deleted
Person A: I always die to it being spammed
Person B: If you die to spam you deserve to get rekt. Get good scrub
Person B gets modded, response deleted
Person B: How is that bait? This guy is just some chump who doesn't want to improve at the game and just wants to kill the game for the rest of us. Noobs shouldn't post.
Person B gets modded, response deleted and 3 day suspension.


Something like that? ETA: Because to me in this entirely fictional example, that is 3 legit reports that added up against the user.

spartaxoxo

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mobile

Desktop View (mobile setting)


It's the same for me. The one I can't report on is mobile, and the workaround is desktop view. Don't worry didn't flag any posts in here. Just providing pics of the interface haha

Laughing at the thought of reporting someone is what got us here.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean here, can you elaborate?

Elsonso

Wow. When did they add the reason list to reports? It has been a long time since I reported anyone.

starkerealm

Elsonso wrote: »

Wow. When did they add the reason list to reports? It has been a long time since I reported anyone.

Late 2020, or early 2021. Not sure exactly when it changed.

starkerealm

SilverBride wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Permabans should be very rare.

As a rule, they appear to be. Users permanently getting the boot are the extreme minority of people on the boards.

I wish that were true but a lot of 10 star long time posters have been permabanned. It appears that only the infractions are looked at and the thousands of constructive posts the player made over the years aren't considered. It's next to impossible to post for years and never once make a mistake, so the complete picture needs to be looked at, not just that they have a certain number of infractions so they are permabanned.

Yeah, that goes back to the use of the report button as a tool of abuse, that we've been talking about. Well, in most cases, anyway. I can think of three or four where there were very compelling reasons for their bans. If you're sitting at ten stars (which we both are), odds are extremely good you've perturbed a few members of the community over the years, and statistically, we probably have. So, the only real question is whether we've gotten on the nerves of someone who abuses the report button. The body count (of banned accounts) speaks to that theory.

SilverBride

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Permabans should be very rare.

As a rule, they appear to be. Users permanently getting the boot are the extreme minority of people on the boards.

I wish that were true but a lot of 10 star long time posters have been permabanned. It appears that only the infractions are looked at and the thousands of constructive posts the player made over the years aren't considered. It's next to impossible to post for years and never once make a mistake, so the complete picture needs to be looked at, not just that they have a certain number of infractions so they are permabanned.

Yeah, that goes back to the use of the report button as a tool of abuse, that we've been talking about. Well, in most cases, anyway. I can think of three or four where there were very compelling reasons for their bans. If you're sitting at ten stars (which we both are), odds are extremely good you've perturbed a few members of the community over the years, and statistically, we probably have. So, the only real question is whether we've gotten on the nerves of someone who abuses the report button. The body count (of banned accounts) speaks to that theory.

This has nothing to do with the report button being abused. Reporting valid violations is not abuse.

This has to do with the punishment being extreme in comparison to the infraction and not taking the accused poster's complete posting history into account.

starkerealm

SilverBride wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the report button being abused. Reporting valid violations is not abuse.

The problem with this argument is, you're assuming the violations were reported in good faith. Again, I have literally been actioned for very old posts that could only have been reported if someone went digging through my post history.

This also combines with the assumption that the moderator's behavior was justified. The problem with this is, in many cases, if there is a post severe enough to warrant a ban, the moderator will delete it. (This isn't unique to ESO, and is true of most forum moderation.)

Now, it's possible that they're being more surgical, searching through post history, and picking posts they think can get actioned. At that point, the line between, legitimate use and abuse is in intent. If someone has a grievance, and wants to remove a user from the boards, and seeks to do that by digging through that user's post history until they find something they can run crying to the moderation team with, that is abuse of the system. And, make no mistake, that is what appears to be happening here.

It's not about correcting past behavior. It's not about reporting past behavior. Those are legitimate uses of the tool. It becomes about finding a vector to get a third party to harass and attack the user for you, and that is abusive.

spartaxoxo

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the report button being abused. Reporting valid violations is not abuse.

The problem with this argument is, you're assuming the violations were reported in good faith. Again, I have literally been actioned for very old posts that could only have been reported if someone went digging through my post history.

I think there are two examples being thrown around here about abusive reports.

1) your example, where someone combed through years of post history to find something reportable.

2) A single thread having multiple mod edits

I think the first one is easily abuse, regardless if the report against that person was genuine or not. Posts over a year old shouldn't be able to incur moderation action that is detrimental to the account imo. This prevents that form of abuse.

The second example is only a problem if the reports aren't legitimate. If someone is legitimately being overly aggressive or harassing another user, it is easy for them to rack up multiple violations on the same thread. That they are racking up so many legitimate violations in a short time span shows a problem with the person being aggressive, not with their victim. If the reports are false however, then it's the person doing the reporting that is abusing the system.

SilverBride

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the report button being abused. Reporting valid violations is not abuse.

The problem with this argument is, you're assuming the violations were reported in good faith. Again, I have literally been actioned for very old posts that could only have been reported if someone went digging through my post history.

This also combines with the assumption that the moderator's behavior was justified. The problem with this is, in many cases, if there is a post severe enough to warrant a ban, the moderator will delete it. (This isn't unique to ESO, and is true of most forum moderation.)

Now, it's possible that they're being more surgical, searching through post history, and picking posts they think can get actioned. At that point, the line between, legitimate use and abuse is in intent. If someone has a grievance, and wants to remove a user from the boards, and seeks to do that by digging through that user's post history until they find something they can run crying to the moderation team with, that is abuse of the system. And, make no mistake, that is what appears to be happening here.

It's not about correcting past behavior. It's not about reporting past behavior. Those are legitimate uses of the tool. It becomes about finding a vector to get a third party to harass and attack the user for you, and that is abusive.

I agree that going through old posts looking for things to report is abuse. In this case the moderator should not take action on the old post and should warn the abuser.

But some are claiming that reporting valid infractions is abuse, such as if a poster was baited 5 times and reported it 5 times. That is not abuse.

starkerealm

SilverBride wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the report button being abused. Reporting valid violations is not abuse.

The problem with this argument is, you're assuming the violations were reported in good faith. Again, I have literally been actioned for very old posts that could only have been reported if someone went digging through my post history.

This also combines with the assumption that the moderator's behavior was justified. The problem with this is, in many cases, if there is a post severe enough to warrant a ban, the moderator will delete it. (This isn't unique to ESO, and is true of most forum moderation.)

Now, it's possible that they're being more surgical, searching through post history, and picking posts they think can get actioned. At that point, the line between, legitimate use and abuse is in intent. If someone has a grievance, and wants to remove a user from the boards, and seeks to do that by digging through that user's post history until they find something they can run crying to the moderation team with, that is abuse of the system. And, make no mistake, that is what appears to be happening here.

It's not about correcting past behavior. It's not about reporting past behavior. Those are legitimate uses of the tool. It becomes about finding a vector to get a third party to harass and attack the user for you, and that is abusive.

I agree that going through old posts looking for things to report is abuse. In this case the moderator should not take action on the old post and should warn the abuser.

But some are claiming that reporting valid infractions is abuse, such as if a poster was baited 5 times and reported it 5 times. That is not abuse.

And that's the part about this that is, legitimately, impossible to quantify. It really does come down to an intent question, "are they reporting people because they see the infraction and think it needs to be stopped?" If that's the case, then it's not abuse. The alternative situation is, "are they reporting people to harass them?"

I suppose another way to look at it is, are they responding to the posts themselves, or are they targeting the poster, and then looking for something to pin on them.

Like I said, it's basically impossible for anyone else to determine which is happening. There has been a lot of moderation that looks suspiciously like someone is engaging in the latter, but as I said a couple pages ago, I can't prove it's happening. All I have is a very well developed sense of pattern recognition going, "hold up, something ain't right here."