Oaken Souls dead on arrival

Commandment

Mythic Items
Oakensoul: This set now grants many Major Buffs rather than unique stats to ensure its power does not eclipse builds that are utilizing both bars effectively, while also reducing some of its raw power with Werewolf builds which already contain many of these Major Buffs, as the Werewolf experience is already designed around having one bar.
This set now grants Major Courage rather than 450 Unique Weapon and Spell Damage.
This set now grants Major Savagery and Prophecy, rather than a unique 1973 Critical Chance rating.
This set now grants Major Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect, rather than unique Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery.
This set now grants Major Resolve rather than a unique 5280 Armor.

RIP, that aint worth having 1 bar of 5 usable skills anymore. Just because someone said werewolfs got a power up. GGWP. Not a good trial item/dungeon item, as your most likely gonna be getting those buffs from other people. Nice one!

Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Oakensoul is a Mythic that we knew would come under close scrutiny due to the sheer amount of power it can provide, even with the downside of only being able to utilize one ability bar. Most of the discussion we've seen so far has been about the potential power spike with Werewolf Transformation as the downside with Oakensoul is irrelevant in this case, as well as how close many one bar builds are to two bar builds (and in some cases, doing BETTER with only one bar). With consideration for the original theme of the Mythic, we decided to move the power from several of the derived bonuses into Major buffs. This change will cause the base strength of the Mythic to remain nearly the same while lowering the ceiling on certain builds and playstyles.

How is helping out a certain build a downside... Then the next reasoning being some people are better with 1 bar than some players with 2. I meannn thats just player skill at that point. You can give a pro player a poop bar, and he'd pull over 100k dps still XD, give that same build to a casual he probably stay around 10-20k. Follwed up with "lowering the ceiling".

Lailaamell

Commandment wrote: »

Mythic Items
Oakensoul: This set now grants many Major Buffs rather than unique stats to ensure its power does not eclipse builds that are utilizing both bars effectively, while also reducing some of its raw power with Werewolf builds which already contain many of these Major Buffs, as the Werewolf experience is already designed around having one bar.
This set now grants Major Courage rather than 450 Unique Weapon and Spell Damage.
This set now grants Major Savagery and Prophecy, rather than a unique 1973 Critical Chance rating.
This set now grants Major Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect, rather than unique Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery.
This set now grants Major Resolve rather than a unique 5280 Armor.

RIP, that aint worth having 1 bar of 5 usable skills anymore. Just because someone said werewolfs got a power up. GGWP. Not a good trial item/dungeon item, as your most likely gonna be getting those buffs from other people. Nice one!

if it buffed vampire it would probly also gotten a penalty like take even more fire dmg while using it or something in it XD but i feel like they just dont want either ww or vampire to be useable but atleast ww does have some uses while vampire has gotten to point of being renamed range blade of woe with undeath

pklemming

You really just need to *sigh* at their attempts to balance and their lack of understanding of ANY group play. The ring will be fine for solo, but group....trial... useless.

belial5221_ESO

They did it cause ppl who didn't even play it on pts complained about WW gonna be too powerful.I tried it,and oaken ring made all one bar playstyles better,not jsut WW,and still wasn't better than 2 bar builds,or some WW ones already out now.Kinda sucks when devs finally listen,but to the wrong ppl,lol.

DigiAngel

Several of these buffs I see I already have as passives or side effects of skills. *Maybe* running this as pure solo (no companion) and changing out for new/different skills? However, if this requires the new DLC forget it....also useless for trial/group...MAYBE in a bad dungeon group though.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

You know it still adds around 3600 Health/Magicka/Stamina right?

belial5221_ESO

You need the new chapter to get it. WW already gets major savagery/prophecy on slot,so sucks since they don't stack,shoulda atleast been minors,or keps flat rate.

Commandment

I just don't understand why we can't have new things, having 5 less skills is already a huge disadvantage.

pklemming wrote: »

You really just need to *sigh* at their attempts to balance and their lack of understanding of ANY group play. The ring will be fine for solo, but group....trial... useless.

Unfortunately for solo play it still isn't worth it losing 5 skills for anyone that isnt a werewolf. If you want sustain you have to give up one of your front abilities for some sort of regen. Many people will have to use utility skills taking up 1-2 slots, leaving you with 1-2 attacks. If your looking for damage, malacath is amazing, if your looking to "solo" any content, you can use ring of the pale order. I dont see any real positives to losing 5 slots for wearing this XD

Wolfpaw

Group play PvP has some new options.

Snamyap

Commandment wrote: »

I just don't understand why we can't have new things, having 5 less skills is already a huge disadvantage.

pklemming wrote: »

You really just need to *sigh* at their attempts to balance and their lack of understanding of ANY group play. The ring will be fine for solo, but group....trial... useless.

Unfortunately for solo play it still isn't worth it losing 5 skills for anyone that isnt a werewolf. If you want sustain you have to give up one of your front abilities for some sort of regen. Many people will have to use utility skills taking up 1-2 slots, leaving you with 1-2 attacks. If your looking for damage, malacath is amazing, if your looking to "solo" any content, you can use ring of the pale order. I dont see any real positives to losing 5 slots for wearing this XD

Well, for exp grinding I usually only use one bar, so that's something...

Mythgard1967

I would imagine its still being tuned so that is likely not the last change that will hit it???

I am totally of mixed emotions on this set...

On the one hand......I have very damaged hands. Missing fingers, reattached fingers with no feeling, other nerve damage. One bar builds are totally doable for me....more so than swapping bars. And i have spent a year trying to get gud at bar swapping.

So I see this set and I think

....OMGERSH, I could probably be viable in some of the content I avoid right now so as not to weigh others down!

and then i think.....

but i have spent a lot of time training my hands to swap bars and light attack weave with their limitations! Don't get lazy and keep challenging your hands (to be clear....I am pretty sure doing this has done more for their usability than physical therapy has....and also knitting....knitting has been great for the hands too)

Commandment

Snamyap wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

I just don't understand why we can't have new things, having 5 less skills is already a huge disadvantage.

pklemming wrote: »

You really just need to *sigh* at their attempts to balance and their lack of understanding of ANY group play. The ring will be fine for solo, but group....trial... useless.

Unfortunately for solo play it still isn't worth it losing 5 skills for anyone that isnt a werewolf. If you want sustain you have to give up one of your front abilities for some sort of regen. Many people will have to use utility skills taking up 1-2 slots, leaving you with 1-2 attacks. If your looking for damage, malacath is amazing, if your looking to "solo" any content, you can use ring of the pale order. I dont see any real positives to losing 5 slots for wearing this XD

Well, for exp grinding I usually only use one bar, so that's something...

Yes thats all it would be good for small/simple activities.

Commandment

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

I would imagine its still being tuned so that is likely not the last change that will hit it???

I am totally of mixed emotions on this set...

On the one hand......I have very damaged hands. Missing fingers, reattached fingers with no feeling, other nerve damage. One bar builds are totally doable for me....more so than swapping bars. And i have spent a year trying to get gud at bar swapping.

So I see this set and I think

....OMGERSH, I could probably be viable in some of the content I avoid right now so as not to weigh others down!

and then i think.....

but i have spent a lot of time training my hands to swap bars and light attack weave with their limitations! Don't get lazy and keep challenging your hands (to be clear....I am pretty sure doing this has done more for their usability than physical therapy has....and also knitting....knitting has been great for the hands too)

Except for when you get Carpel Tunnel leading you back to the Physical Therapist XD. I dunno I feel this was gonna be a good unique item for players who aren't good at weaving (I already mastered it) But it would be nice to see 1 bars, compete with 2 bars as they both have difficulities. 1 you have less skills to use, 1 you have way more skills and a back up ulti.

EmEm_Oh

Commandment wrote: »

Mythic Items
Oakensoul: This set now grants many Major Buffs rather than unique stats to ensure its power does not eclipse builds that are utilizing both bars effectively, while also reducing some of its raw power with Werewolf builds which already contain many of these Major Buffs, as the Werewolf experience is already designed around having one bar.
This set now grants Major Courage rather than 450 Unique Weapon and Spell Damage.
This set now grants Major Savagery and Prophecy, rather than a unique 1973 Critical Chance rating.
This set now grants Major Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect, rather than unique Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery.
This set now grants Major Resolve rather than a unique 5280 Armor.

RIP, that aint worth having 1 bar of 5 usable skills anymore. Just because someone said werewolfs got a power up. GGWP. Not a good trial item/dungeon item, as your most likely gonna be getting those buffs from other people. Nice one!

Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Oakensoul is a Mythic that we knew would come under close scrutiny due to the sheer amount of power it can provide, even with the downside of only being able to utilize one ability bar. Most of the discussion we've seen so far has been about the potential power spike with Werewolf Transformation as the downside with Oakensoul is irrelevant in this case, as well as how close many one bar builds are to two bar builds (and in some cases, doing BETTER with only one bar). With consideration for the original theme of the Mythic, we decided to move the power from several of the derived bonuses into Major buffs. This change will cause the base strength of the Mythic to remain nearly the same while lowering the ceiling on certain builds and playstyles.

How is helping out a certain build a downside... Then the next reasoning being some people are better with 1 bar than some players with 2. I meannn thats just player skill at that point. You can give a pro player a poop bar, and he'd pull over 100k dps still XD, give that same build to a casual he probably stay around 10-20k. Follwed up with "lowering the ceiling".

They already changed the mythic before it was even released? Nice. LOL. I'm already over mythic items. Hardly even grind for them these days because of what I read above. There's way too much 2 steps forward, 1 step back dev going on with items and sets that I really just don't care anymore what I wear as I know eventually it will change in a month.

BloodyStigmata

They forgot "this set now provides Major Disappointment."

No but really, we knew this was probably going to happen.

PeacefulAnarchy

If keeping the same stats on an item and simply changing what it's called takes something from super unbelievably OP to completely worthless and nerfed to the ground then that should be an indication that there's something more deeply wrong in how the game treats buffs.

Maybe a second application of a major buff should count as a minor buff instead. It would keep the ring's power for solo, and nerf it to half for organized group content. It would also provide more flexibility in trial group composition in general if this applied to all applications. Makes less things redundant and gives more options while still keeping the power cap where it is now.

ixthUA

Now i have 0 reasons to buy this year's expansion, so i am not going to buy it even at 80% discount.
High Isle, worst expansion ESO ever had?

Commandment

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

If keeping the same stats on an item and simply changing what it's called takes something from super unbelievably OP to completely worthless and nerfed to the ground then that should be an indication that there's something more deeply wrong in how the game treats buffs.

Maybe a second application of a major buff should count as a minor buff instead. It would keep the ring's power for solo, and nerf it to half for organized group content. It would also provide more flexibility in trial group composition in general if this applied to all applications. Makes less things redundant and gives more options while still keeping the power cap where it is now.

Or they could just reduce the numbers on the stats it gives.

Faltasë

I think this is a bad decision because they're not exactly letting people escape meta-oriented samey builds. We should've seen this coming though, the elitists with 2 bar builds are mad things get changed, and then when something refreshing or different comes along they nerf it into the ground because people don't like that difference in meta(could even be the devs that dont like that difference, tbh).

Look, I'm all for leveling the playing field, but how many mythics have been nerfed because it "outclassed" other builds? I thought the whole point of mythics was that they were powerful. I thought the whole point of the mythics was to change how builds were formed. Now no one uses them and people don't have any motivation to get them because they get so nerfed. Why don't we buff things to compensate instead of nerfing everything to keep things samey? I don't get it. They're just pulling the wrong solutions out of a hat. If you want player creativity, then stop nerfing everything into oblivion?

Commandment

Faltasë wrote: »

I think this is a bad decision because they're not exactly letting people escape meta-oriented samey builds. We should've seen this coming though, the elitists with 2 bar builds are mad things get changed, and then when something refreshing or different comes along they nerf it into the ground because people don't like that difference in meta(could even be the devs that dont like that difference, tbh).

Look, I'm all for leveling the playing field, but how many mythics have been nerfed because it "outclassed" other builds? I thought the whole point of mythics was that they were powerful. I thought the whole point of the mythics was to change how builds were formed. Now no one uses them and people don't have any motivation to get them because they get so nerfed. Why don't we buff things to compensate instead of nerfing everything to keep things samey? I don't get it. They're just pulling the wrong solutions out of a hat. If you want player creativity, then stop nerfing everything into oblivion?

Exactly, this is the first company that wants too "Lower the ceiling" reducing the potential of the players.

SerafinaWaterstar

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

They did it cause ppl who didn't even play it on pts complained about WW gonna be too powerful.I tried it,and oaken ring made all one bar playstyles better,not jsut WW,and still wasn't better than 2 bar builds,or some WW ones already out now.Kinda sucks when devs finally listen,but to the wrong ppl,lol.

It’s their special gift.

Commandment

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

They did it cause ppl who didn't even play it on pts complained about WW gonna be too powerful.I tried it,and oaken ring made all one bar playstyles better,not jsut WW,and still wasn't better than 2 bar builds,or some WW ones already out now.Kinda sucks when devs finally listen,but to the wrong ppl,lol.

They saw the youtube click bait screen shots "OP BROKEN, NERFED, SECRET OP, SECRET POWER, MUST HAVE, SHOULD BE NERFED" and then said "HmmmMmmM This is what the community believes! (Looks at the 1k views)

EmEm_Oh

Commandment wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

I think this is a bad decision because they're not exactly letting people escape meta-oriented samey builds. We should've seen this coming though, the elitists with 2 bar builds are mad things get changed, and then when something refreshing or different comes along they nerf it into the ground because people don't like that difference in meta(could even be the devs that dont like that difference, tbh).

Look, I'm all for leveling the playing field, but how many mythics have been nerfed because it "outclassed" other builds? I thought the whole point of mythics was that they were powerful. I thought the whole point of the mythics was to change how builds were formed. Now no one uses them and people don't have any motivation to get them because they get so nerfed. Why don't we buff things to compensate instead of nerfing everything to keep things samey? I don't get it. They're just pulling the wrong solutions out of a hat. If you want player creativity, then stop nerfing everything into oblivion?

Exactly, this is the first company that wants too "Lower the ceiling" reducing the potential of the players.

I would like to see a one-week event where everyone has no equipment or skills and just runs around naked, trying to complete special achievements.

DizzyMac

you do understand that the nerf is due to massively OP WWs when wearing the ring? in the PVP side of the game it would destroy game play more than the OP DKs do now.

EmEm_Oh

DizzyMac wrote: »

you do understand that the nerf is due to massively OP WWs when wearing the ring? in the PVP side of the game it would destroy game play more than the OP DKs do now.

I've heard a lot of end-of-the-world predictions when it comes to ESO items, and I've never seen it on a grand scale. Sure, maybe in a few instances of zergs in PvP, but they don't stay online forever, and in addition, I tend to slot fast-moving stam sets to avoid them and make life hell when they chase me.

But let's assume WW's would have taken Tamriel One and turned it into a bunch of OP furries. Make it so WW skills wouldn't work with it. Woof.

Aardappelboom

ESO shines when you can try new sets which in turn result in slotting different skills and changing your playstyle.

I really liked what they were doing with this mythic. Yes it might have been a little over the top for werewolves but it could also have been a new and refreshing way to play the game.

I'm sad to see it go to waste, adding buffs might seem smart but it's useless for group play now. Might still be interesting for Pvp, but still, I'd rather had seen some lighter adjustments, it's a mythic and you sacrifice 5 skills, so the downside is still pretty rough.

Commandment

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

I think this is a bad decision because they're not exactly letting people escape meta-oriented samey builds. We should've seen this coming though, the elitists with 2 bar builds are mad things get changed, and then when something refreshing or different comes along they nerf it into the ground because people don't like that difference in meta(could even be the devs that dont like that difference, tbh).

Look, I'm all for leveling the playing field, but how many mythics have been nerfed because it "outclassed" other builds? I thought the whole point of mythics was that they were powerful. I thought the whole point of the mythics was to change how builds were formed. Now no one uses them and people don't have any motivation to get them because they get so nerfed. Why don't we buff things to compensate instead of nerfing everything to keep things samey? I don't get it. They're just pulling the wrong solutions out of a hat. If you want player creativity, then stop nerfing everything into oblivion?

Exactly, this is the first company that wants too "Lower the ceiling" reducing the potential of the players.

I would like to see a one-week event where everyone has no equipment or skills and just runs around naked, trying to complete special achievements.

Then they would complain about classes, or how broken the event was. Alwaysss something to point at. XD

DizzyMac wrote: »

you do understand that the nerf is due to massively OP WWs when wearing the ring? in the PVP side of the game it would destroy game play more than the OP DKs do now.

Werewolf's just as vampire currently is very underwhelming, and a straight up gimmick, you can kill some unskilled players, but you arent gonna do much beyond that. As for PVP current BG's werewolves are a joke, and in Cyro, again another gimmick run around looking cool skill.

Now thats the problem we are facing, as in your sentence, you said x is OP, and x is OP. People are not differentiating the words of OP and good/better. Everything is can be deemed OP in the right hands. Even if it powers up werewolves, you and other players should be happy as you have more options.

joerginger

as expected

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Actually I think these changes were just about perfect. People were one barring builds that were out performing two bar builds. When the floor is above the ceiling, your house has collapsed.

People are still going to be able to parse in the 100k range with this with one bar, which is frankly absurd. You wont need to waste bar slots on things like inner light or your armor buff. You wont need to worry about regen. You don't need to grind arena weapons unless you want to front bar them. Only buff you need to keep in mind is major Sorcery or Brutality, which can easily be obtained via a DK tank, gear sets, potions, or skills.

It was OP in its first attempt. This change/solution hits the nail firmly on the head. This set is there to help people that struggle with bar swapping, not to make you capable of out parsing someone that can effectively play both bars. If you are someone that can parse 100k+ currently with a 2 bar build, this set just wasn't meant for you, and that is okay. This set is an attempt to raise the floor.

Commandment

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually I think these changes were just about perfect. People were one barring builds that were out performing two bar builds. When the floor is above the ceiling, your house has collapsed.

People are still going to be able to parse in the 100k range with this with one bar, which is frankly absurd. You wont need to waste bar slots on things like inner light or your armor buff. You wont need to worry about regen. You don't need to grind arena weapons unless you want to front bar them. Only buff you need to keep in mind is major Sorcery or Brutality, which can easily be obtained via a DK tank, gear sets, potions, or skills.

It was OP in its first attempt. This change/solution hits the nail firmly on the head. This set is there to help people that struggle with bar swapping, not to make you capable of out parsing someone that can effectively play both bars. If you are someone that can parse 100k+ currently with a 2 bar build, this set just wasn't meant for you, and that is okay.

To everyone their own.

But the statement with "The floor above the ceiling" didn't really make sense, that would mean every single player in the game is breaking these damage caps when in truth it isnt. This item simply adds a new variety of plays to the game.

I don't see the reason a person pulling high dps would get upset with another person pulling similar dps, that really doesnt make sense. People already complain about people not pulling enough DPS, now we have people complaining someone is pulling the same DPS? This doesn't seem productive imo

Having 1 bar, excludes you from 5 extra slots, and a situational ult for certain circumstances. Thats huge. Some people struggle with wishing they had more slots for utility skills that arent buffs.

In this case, "Nailing it on the head" is pretty accurate, as they put the final nail on the coffin making it straight up irrelevant

Ratzkifal

I think if they gave Oakensoul Major Brutality and maybe even Minor Berserk it'll be perfectly fine. I'd prefer if ZOS could make up their mind about who the target audience for this (or any) mythic is.
Before the change it was clearly designed for Werewolves. Now it looks like it's designed for Templars because Brutality/Sorcery comes from their spammable and they get to drop a bunch of skills from their bars thanks to the named effects it provides.
To me the item now looks like it tries to be a PvP-oriented build simplifier and if that's the case then they should totally just slap all the relevant passives on it, like Major Brutality/Sorcery. You'll still have to slot some utility spells on your reduced bar because Evasion, gap closers and cc still need to take up slots.

At least Shapeshifter's chain now helps Werewolf sustain, which is neat.