Stone giant

Wellsley

Since we know that there will be no real stamwhip (stamina cost), it might be time to review the animation of stone giant.

I've seen more players who prefer to use heroic slash or power slam... Who themselves are less used than molten whip and dizzying swing.
Even in pve I don't see many players using it.

The stone giant exists but almost nobody wants to play with it, due to bad animation.

IonicKai

The reason stone giant is unwanted isn't really the animation but the fact that the first cast doesn't do damage and technically has a cast time. That means you drop block. That combination makes it undesirable except as a debuff or occasionally as a stun utility but it's pretty weak in that regard. They had reworked it to be a proper stam spamable but changed it again to the current state. I think it would be better if it was treated as a spamable again and they did away with the intial casts cast time and lack of damage. As a trade off you could make it take 4/5 casts to max out stagger and leave the stagger debuff at the same overall damage increase.

MashmalloMan

As with most skills that fall into this category, when ZOS tries to create skills that do everything, it succeeds at nothing.

• Is it ranged?
• Is it melee?
• Is it aoe?
• Is it a stun?
• Is it a debuff?
• Is it a spammable?
• Is it an instant cast skill?
• Is it a cast time skill?

This is a very similar problem Arctic Blast has. There is just too much going on and it ends up being the worst at it all.

MashmalloMan

This is how I'd fix it. Feel free to share if you agree or want it to change.

1. Instant cast, retains unique aoe stagger application. Aoe's can't be dodged, guaranteeing 1 stack of Stagger to multiple enemies.
2. Melee, 0 range, no projectiles. This is what DK's ARE. If we want a ranged spammable, we can search through other universal skill tree's.
3. Keeps physical damage upfront, but offers poison damage on 3/4 hits for passive/status effect synergy.
4. Stagger only scales well for damage dealers up to 6k like Engulfing Flames, forcing tanks to drop the skill in favour of a Stam Dk potentially.
5. No stun, but offers increased damage dealt if target already has 3 stacks of stagger. This helps the skill become a real, bursty spammable for DK's instead of it only being used for the Stagger uptime.

Wellsley

I agree with you. Animation isn't the only issue, there's also cast time. That's why stone giant should be instant and melee only, but without projectiles it would be necessary to review the animation too.

TPishek

Can someone explain why it matters if Stone Fist is melee or ranged? What exactly is the downside to having the option to use it at range?

Mr_Stach

TPishek wrote: »

Can someone explain why it matters if Stone Fist is melee or ranged? What exactly is the downside to having the option to use it at range?

Melee is instant and can't be as reliably dodged. Warden has this issue with Cliff Racers, it's basically useless in PvP because you can just move out of the way. (pssst Zos buff Cliff Racer Speed)

phaneub17_ESO

It feeds off itself with Diamond's Victory, the initial cast pops ranged supremacy then the 3 rock bolts pops melee supremacy. If you're a melee DK this is kind of neat as you can use the projectiles to feed melee supremacy. I really like it for this purpose, but I guess I'm in the minority that enjoys using it in my rotation that way.

Sluggy

Here's a really cool idea! What if it was, say, a magicka skill that delt a bit of damage, performed a stun, but had a range of maybe 22 meters and cost about 30% less than fossilize?

Runefang

Wellsley wrote: »

Since we know that there will be no real stamwhip (stamina cost), it might be time to review the animation of stone giant.

I've seen more players who prefer to use heroic slash or power slam... Who themselves are less used than molten whip and dizzying swing.
Even in pve I don't see many players using it.

The stone giant exists but almost nobody wants to play with it, due to bad animation.

Stagger is in every trial group just about and is very strong. It's less commonly used solo/4-man of course since the debuff isn't worth it, whip is better. Personally I like to use it in dungeons though, having a ranged spammable is useful and the initial hit is AoE.

If they just removed the cast time for the initial AoE I'd be happier with it. It's clunky to use because you're not sure if its been 12 seconds and needs to be recast, or you've used the spammable part 3 times and it needs to be recast so the cast time can be quite jarring in a rotation.

Wellsley

Agreed.

Making stone giant an instant skill is necessary.
Then the animation and why not make the skill melee only.

Wellsley

If you still don't want to give us a real stamwhip, fine, at least give us a real stamina spammable. Please make the necessary changes to stone giant.

KingExecration

Stonefist should’ve been a cut and dry poison uppercut. It’s got fist in it’s name. The entire kit is melee.

I think the worst direction that Zo$ has ever took was making every spammable introduced since warden release ranged. It is ridiculous and almost all of them awful since they’re impractical in most kits. Dive,ele weapon, crystal weapon, stone fist, venom skull

J18696

Honestly I felt like stone giant was better before they changed it to have a cast time aoe activation the only thing I would have changed is the stun to another effect maybe off balance

Wellsley

KingExecration wrote: »

Stonefist should’ve been a cut and dry poison uppercut. It’s got fist in it’s name. The entire kit is melee.

I think the worst direction that Zo$ has ever took was making every spammable introduced since warden release ranged. It is ridiculous and almost all of them awful since they’re impractical in most kits. Dive,ele weapon, crystal weapon, stone fist, venom skull

Yeah, right now me and others are fighting to change Dive. I take this opportunity to revive the debate here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/605493/warden-spammable/p1?new=1

Aardappelboom

I play it in PvP and I solely use it in a rotation to proc mountain blessing, right ever I stun and fracture the opposing guy/girl, it's handy that it's AOE with the first hit and it hits pretty decent allowing to get some damage in while refreshing minor brutality to get ready to burst. While I agree that it could use some extra work it's not as useless as a lot of people say.

While I don't love the changing identity after the first hit I have had some succes in using the ranged attack on sorcerers that are trying to get away, right before I gap close on them and while the stun is unpredictable I have noticed that almost no-one expect the ranged stun. It catches a lot of people of guard and combining it with a gab closer gets them into trouble.

I could live with it if they removed the stun and ranged attack and just stuck with the first "crush".

divnyi

Just leave melee AoE version only and make it's raw damage the highest of all melee AoEs in the game.
And remove mag morph and replace it with something more interesting.

Wellsley

If this skill changes, what are your suggestions for animation ?