Healing is too strong in PvP - 1 storypoint solution

divnyi

doesurmindglow wrote: »

Battle Spirit already cuts healing in half, would this be in addition to that?

It cuts damage even more.

huskandhunger

we need this

AdamLAD

I'd go even further and reduce self-healing by 30% and cross healing by 50%. Everyone is healing as much as what a dedicated healer would have healed a while back. Thus theoretically making anyone a healer. Healers, in general, absolutely destroy PvP. Bursting players over and over just to be healed once back up to full by someone else is not fun at all. PvP should be more about self healing and not about relying on a healer. Healers obviously have a place in PvP but they are way to strong and make PvP not fun if fighting against them. Personally I don't not think you should be able to heal outside your group, and if your group is a large group you get penalties. If you want to have more numbers you get a penalty for example less healing taken by x amount. Ball groups are way to strong and healing in zergs is way to strong and certain self heals solo are to strong. I think current damage is fine. Its just healing.

OBJnoob

I agree with the overall direction of this topic but think certain suggestions go way too far. 30% reduction to self heals and 50% to cross heals?? Eesh. I'd much rather change how the coefficients work, sliding more priority towards max stat for healing, and let individual players adjust their builds accordingly depending on how much damage they're willing to sacrifice for how much healing they want to get back.

Otherwise we've got the same problem and people's response will be the same: more max damage more more more-- and we have the same problem, meta, and tiny gear selection.

I also don't much like ideas penalizing people for grouping. Coordinated ballgroups are supposed to reign supreme. And Xing brings pleasure from overcoming that outnumbered situation. The fact that 1 person can't kill 12 decent players working in concert is perfectly logical and balanced.

RemoryAzure

reducing healing means total disbalance in 1v1 situations, because:
1. melee builds in this game do 20-30% more damage than ranged in average
2. gap closers have no cd aswell as any other skill which makes no any sense to make melees do more dmg
3. there are skills (DK/Warden/SnB) that totally counter ranged classes leaving them no chance to win even when used by a total newbie against pro ranged player.

equal and sufficient healing is the last chance for a ranged build to face melee one.

OBJnoob

RemoryAzure wrote: »

equal and sufficient healing is the last chance for a ranged build to face melee one.

I disagree so much. Ranged specs can do their damage from afar and against a pure melee spec that means no damage is being returned at that time. Means no healing is needed. It is the melee build that needs more healing in this situation. They both will need healing, no doubt, but the melee needs it more the ranged build is more likely and able to focus on kiting and keeping up pressure. I respect the point about gap closers but honestly if you have something like streak or cloak then a gap closer is... Only fair?

Luede

as long as not all classes have equal heals, a further reduction would only remove the bad heal classes completely from pvp, i'm thinking specifically of sorcs.

It should rather be thought about a general nerf of the class heals, or to scale healing over max stats.

a skill that brings the user back to max hp with the push of a button is obviously poorly thought out and also completely over the top in pve.

RemoryAzure

OBJnoob wrote: »

Ranged specs can do their damage from afar and against a pure melee spec that means no damage is being returned at that time.

this is very unrealistic, coz the only possible (as a serious and determined player) way to play ranged build atm is NB full dmg gank build, which will kill in 1 sec and leave no chance, but in fair 1v1 duel this build can do a little less than nothing, where "nothing" - is what other ranged builds can do in a competitive duel tournament if there were any. "no damage returned" situation lasts for only 1 second until the first gap closer, and then the rest 10-30 sec fight continues purely in melee range, where melee does insane amount of damage while taking from 50% (dk) to 0 (warden) (and even more damage comes via reflection from those defensive skills).

okay, not everyone is playing DK or Warden, i guess like only 50-60% of players nowadays, but their existence still leaves no any chance for a ranged build to face them in any fair tournament. u can play ranged only if u are a big fan, but if u want 100% win u always go melee meta class - thats the problem. reducing healing means that ranged builds will lose their last chance to atleast survive pressure while escaping towards teammates, which will lead to a total extinction of ranged classes, who are already extremely rare species these days.

on the other hand, i DO actually think that healing needs to be reduced, but ONLY after following changes:
1. melee and ranged skills need to be equalized in damage (they still will do a bit more damage due to other stuff but not that much to ruin balance like nowadays) OR the gap closers should have cd (and the latter is the most fair variant but not suitable for the game design)
2. anti-ranged skills must be reworked into something else OR atleast they must work based on damage, reducing NO damage from ranged skills in close quarters
3. sorc and nb need to be tweaked. sorc needs a huge buffs to his kit BUT streak should be his ult, while overload should be his new spammable, and regarding NB... dont even know what to do, coz cloak is a strong skill, but extremely easy to counter, so it needs to be more reliable (e.g. remove revealed state, just let anti-stealth skills see NB while he is in range), but harder to use (e.g. cannot use for 2 sec after taking damage or increase consecutive usage cost)

OBJnoob

Well I'm not arguing that dk and warden outperform sorc I'm just saying it is the classes that need balancing not ranged -v- melee.

You talk about competitive duels but duels have a fairly small area so I wouldn't expect ranged builds to be that great anyway-- they're better for open world. Also, in duels, people don't really use gap closers either.

Nevertheless my original statement is correct: in a fight between a ranged spec and a melee spec the melee will need more healing than the ranged. Unless the ranged just has no pressure or ability to kite... Which would make them very bad at what they do.

RemoryAzure

OBJnoob wrote: »

Nevertheless my original statement is correct: in a fight between a ranged spec and a melee spec the melee will need more healing than the ranged. Unless the ranged just has no pressure or ability to kite...

even streak is never enough to kite in current super-speed meta, u are gonna just waste all mana and die in the next 2 sec from a melee following u with a speed of light, meaning melees in this game do NOT need more healing, so the statement is wrong.

healing overall should be nerfed for the sake of healthy pvp scenarios, but it can be done only after melee nerfs i mentioned, otherwise it will lead for even more disbalance

Sergykid

slightly outdated topic but i suppose the "problem" still haunts in a way?

cutting healing would mean that only ranged and stealthed remain viable cuz winner would be first hitter and or highest opener.

pillar hugging mitigates much more damage than healing or defense, u will see more of it with less healing.

maybe damage taken go from -50% or whatever is it now to -45% or smth, or increase cost of heals

gariondavey

Mash remains one of the most insightful posters on the forums. Hard to disagree with anything he says

selig_fay

I take a pve healer. I take pvp dps. I arrange a fight and decide that the dps wins. I take 10 pve healers. I take 10 pvp dps (no healing). DPS wins. Conclusion: We need a DPS nerf. That is literally the whole point of this discussion. You take a bad group and say that it must be able to kill the good one. That's why you nerf the healing so nothing changes lol.
You have a healing stat and a cast cost. Work on these settings because they will do more than reduce healing.

Nebula_DooM

they have touched healing received far too often and always turn back. If they want change, then they should reduced damage mitigation provided by battlespirit from 44% to 20% like it was once upon a time. Also bring back befoul cp as a slottable or something

RemoryAzure

Nebula_DooM wrote: »

they have touched healing received far too often and always turn back. If they want change, then they should reduced damage mitigation provided by battlespirit from 44% to 20% like it was once upon a time. Also bring back befoul cp as a slottable or something

this isnt possible, u know, to make this work they will need to triple everyone's hp. the game is already about oneshots, they must increase mitigation instead. but not too much - longer pvps will lead to infinite running away. and also the main problem of the game mechanics is resource sustain, u never have enough to fight longer than 10 seconds, and if u have, this means that u hit like a noodle, or just play an overpowered build

selig_fay

Nebula_DooM wrote: »

they have touched healing received far too often and always turn back. If they want change, then they should reduced damage mitigation provided by battlespirit from 44% to 20% like it was once upon a time. Also bring back befoul cp as a slottable or something

All they need is to remove healing from most builds. At the moment, you can't kill, not because the healing is bad, but because it's literally everywhere. You know, tanks and DPS that heal themselves in Cyrodiil are better than PVE healers.