Why are adornments gender locked?

Eclipse318

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, @ZOS_GinaBruno

essi2

There is probably a fair amount of work involved in making all the cosmetics non-genderlocked.

Work I hope ZOS will be doing in the background over time.

Eclipse318

People have been asking for this for years, they've had plenty of time. Ironic how they're going to do a livestream about nonbinary role models, but they've still got gender locked hairstyles.

robwolf666

Nothing wrong with it the way it is.

RaikaNA

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, @ZOS_GinaBruno

Seriously? That's not even remotely important for the game right now..

Wolfpaw

You already can become ww, vamp, sorcerer, or fierce warrior riding a mount made from fire, so why not in a fantasy make believe world!

Arunei

robwolf666 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it the way it is.

Except there is, because certain Cosmetics are locked to either male or female models. Just because you aren't affected doesn't mean it's not a problem for other people.

Dresses, Makeup, and Jewelry for the most part aren't gender-locked, so why are certain Circlets or Facial Hair or whatever? There are woman irl who've had beards, and guess what, costumes and disguises are a thing too! There's no reason to keep some things gender-locked when most everything else isn't.

Tommy_The_Gun

I guess because ESO is still based in reality. I mean it is a fantasy world, but it is still based on the real world. It may also have something to do with coding or something. Some cosmetic items for example are also race-locked. So for example an imperial can not "equip" Argonian's horns & fins & vice versa - Argonians can not "equip" imperial hairs etc. I imagine it would require a lot of extra work to make proper models so it would not clip or something.

Syldras

robwolf666 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I guess because ESO is still based in reality. I mean it is a fantasy world, but it is still based on the real world.

You can already use these awfully looking false lashes on male characters:
https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/magicka-zephyr-lashes/

[edited to remove quote & some back-and-forth]

NotaDaedraWorshipper

I assume it's because they would fit badly on the other sex, like the Short Mussed Wave hairstyle that was finally released after years. On male characters it fits well, but on female ones it does not. A bit like it's too big and pokes out and floats around the foreheard and stuff.
Apparently this is too much work for ZOS to adjust, and if gender locked hairstyles were removed we would get alot of badly fitting hairstyles.

p00tx

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, @ZOS_GinaBruno

I think this would be a cool thing to address too, but I don't know what kind of work that would entail. You can adjust faces/bodies in character select already and the existing items work perfectly well with any combination of physical character attributes, so I know their item models aren't static render. Given that, it would probably just be a quick coding change. I'm not a game designer though, so I obviously have zero idea how it would actually work in reality.

spartaxoxo

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

I assume it's because they would fit badly on the other sex, like the Short Mussed Wave hairstyle that was finally released after years. On male characters it fits well, but on female ones it does not. A bit like it's too big and pokes out and floats around the foreheard and stuff.
Apparently this is too much work for ZOS to adjust, and if gender locked hairstyles were removed we would get alot of badly fitting hairstyles.

I think this is it. They most likely feel it's a better used of their time to make new cosmetics largely available to either gender rather than go back and rework older ones.

Mik195

RaikaNA wrote: »

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, @ZOS_GinaBruno

Seriously? That's not even remotely important for the game right now..

I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version.

Cave_Canem

Personally I don't care.

Get a hair cut, wear the clothes that make you feel good.

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game!

Arunei

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I guess because ESO is still based in reality. I mean it is a fantasy world, but it is still based on the real world. It may also have something to do with coding or something. Some cosmetic items for example are also race-locked. So for example an imperial can not "equip" Argonian's horns & fins & vice versa - Argonians can not "equip" imperial hairs etc. I imagine it would require a lot of extra work to make proper models so it would not clip or something.

There's a difference between Race-locked and gender-locked, though. Race-locked makes sense, even though technically an Argonian could wear wigs or an Imperial could have plastic Argonian horns. We also already get ridiculous clipping on practically everything else, too. I would believe for Race-locked it's more of a coding thing, but gender-locking things just seems like more work when most Cosmetics are unisex.

spartaxoxo

Arunei wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I guess because ESO is still based in reality. I mean it is a fantasy world, but it is still based on the real world. It may also have something to do with coding or something. Some cosmetic items for example are also race-locked. So for example an imperial can not "equip" Argonian's horns & fins & vice versa - Argonians can not "equip" imperial hairs etc. I imagine it would require a lot of extra work to make proper models so it would not clip or something.

There's a difference between Race-locked and gender-locked, though. Race-locked makes sense, even though technically an Argonian could wear wigs or an Imperial could have plastic Argonian horns. We also already get ridiculous clipping on practically everything else, too. I would believe for Race-locked it's more of a coding thing, but gender-locking things just seems like more work when most Cosmetics are unisex.

The male models and female models are different, so it's actually more work to make them unisex than to gender lock them. You can see how the male models are a bit bigger if you look at the short mussed wave. They allow it to be equipped by both but it doesn't fit females correctly.

Mythgard1967

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I guess because ESO is still based in reality. I mean it is a fantasy world, but it is still based on the real world. It may also have something to do with coding or something. Some cosmetic items for example are also race-locked. So for example an imperial can not "equip" Argonian's horns & fins & vice versa - Argonians can not "equip" imperial hairs etc. I imagine it would require a lot of extra work to make proper models so it would not clip or something.

There's a difference between Race-locked and gender-locked, though. Race-locked makes sense, even though technically an Argonian could wear wigs or an Imperial could have plastic Argonian horns. We also already get ridiculous clipping on practically everything else, too. I would believe for Race-locked it's more of a coding thing, but gender-locking things just seems like more work when most Cosmetics are unisex.

The male models and female models are different, so it's actually more work to make them unisex than to gender lock them. You can see how the male models are a bit bigger if you look at the short mussed wave. They allow it to be equipped by both but it doesn't fit females correctly.

THIS...I would guess new cosmetics are designed with two models...to fit both males and females; whereas the older ones only have 1....I wish the short mussed wave "right"...its a cool looking style but on a female it looks like a bad pompadour wig.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Different things fit different models

What you're asking for is for ZOS to make a second version of every gender locked cosmetic in the game.

Would it be cool? Sure, id love a bunch more cosmetic options. But it is a tonne of work, and id rather see them put that effort into newer cooler items than gender unlocking hundreds of old and dated stuff.

Marronsuisse

I got the Cosmetic Pack: Adornments pack a few weeks ago and it was pretty disappointing. Tons of circlets, earrings, etc. for female characters, and the men get beards instead (and a tiny number of more "masculine" adornments). I'd hoped the pack would unlock the earrings for my male character, so my bad for not previewing it properly.

I do appreciate that newer adornments you can buy are not gender-locked but yeesh, the adornments pack and the character creation options feel kinda dated.

alberichtano

mjharper wrote: »

[snip]

Exactly. Who ever said there is no room in fantasy and escapism for ALL who need breathing room outside the strains of real life?

[edited to remove quote]

alberichtano

Mik195 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, @ZOS_GinaBruno

Seriously? That's not even remotely important for the game right now..

I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version.

And vice versa for male heroes of course. Mayb they are proud of their chest hais, like Jakarn.

Personally I am dead tired of the not-so-subtle sexism of computer games. Boob armor is silly, and heavy armor (or ANY armor) showing your belly is suicide. So OK, it is fantasy and make believe, but as you say, give people the option to have fantasy heros that are more Brienne of Tarth and less Wonderwoman.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

alberichtano wrote: »

Personally I am dead tired of the not-so-subtle sexism of computer games. Boob armor is silly, and heavy armor (or ANY armor) showing your belly is suicide. So OK, it is fantasy and make believe, but as you say, give people the option to have fantasy heros that are more Brienne of Tarth and less Wonderwoman.

Many outfit styles already look like Brienne of Tarth.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Mik195 wrote: »

I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version.

Isn't that very rare in ESO? Like most styles get the same kind of look for female characters as males. It's not going to be super thick armour on males and then a crop top on females.

SammyKhajit

This is a fantasy, made up game. ZOS can definitely unlock the silly thing re male female stuff. It’d be more financially lucrative that way as well. This one suspects they resisted earlier because the Zenimax board was dominated by this lot https://www.gamespot.com/articles/zenimax-board-of-directors-dissolved-after-xboxs-bethesda-purchase/1100-6488918/

Since that board has been dissolved as a result of Windows acquisition, let’s hope a change will come soon.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Syldras

Actually, the whole thing is not even about gender. It's about free choice. In a way it would even be realistic, I mean, why would a male character be able to wear one type of circlet but not the other that looks exact the same except for a different adornment at the front? Same goes for earrings, as long as you have ears, you are able to wear them. Or makeup - if I wanted, I could paint my face the ugliest, tackiest colors possible. People might stare - but I could do it, in real life. That's the point. So why would that be unrealistic in a game?

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Isn't that very rare in ESO? Like most styles get the same kind of look for female characters as males. It's not going to be super thick armour on males and then a crop top on females.

I agree. It's something I always liked about ESO, or about the "newer" TES games in general (Arena and Daggerfall were, well, different). If there was skimpy looking armor, the male version normally wasn't much different either.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syldras wrote: »

Actually, the whole thing is not even about gender. It's about free choice. In a way it would even be realistic, I mean, why would a male character be able to wear one type of circlet but not the other that looks exact the same except for a different adornment at the front? Same goes for earrings, as long as you have ears, you are able to wear them. Or makeup - if I wanted, I could paint my face the ugliest, tackiest colors possible. People might stare - but I could do it, in real life. That's the point. So why would that be unrealistic in a game?

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Isn't that very rare in ESO? Like most styles get the same kind of look for female characters as males. It's not going to be super thick armour on males and then a crop top on females.

I agree. It's something I always liked about ESO, or about the "newer" TES games in general (Arena and Daggerfall were, well, different). If there was skimpy looking armor, the male version normally wasn't much different either.

Yeah, Arena and Daggerfall suffered quite a lot from their age. That men in armour and women in oddly modern looking skimpy outfits which was common then. But it got better and ESO has been very good with it, reminds me a lot of when I played Age of Conan. Was it armour then it would be armour for both. Was it a short sarong or skimpy robe it would be it for both as well. ESO does this most of the time with some minor exceptions. Still a bit annoyed that celestial robe didn't get peek-a-boo windows on male characters.

Can only agree on the adornment topic too. The gendered cosmetics doesn't make any sense. Wonder if the adornments suffer from the same issue the hairstyle does, which is that they don't have a version for the other gender and would fit badly. But you wonder why they did those restrictions in the first place, like why is some pony tails only for males and others for females. Or even weirder, why are some of the khajiit earrings only for males and some only for the females even if they look very alike.

Also, it's nice to see you again, Syldras. Haven't seen you for quite some time.

RisenEclipse

From what I can tell, most of the locked appearance stuff is from the old, old days, when this all first came out. Also a lot of that is tied to character creation things too. Am I agreeing with having this? No, of course not. I would rather see them be able to be used on any gender. But we all know ZOS is terrible at updating original content. There are so many things in base game that needs serious updating and more love. I doubt they will make an exception for this.

RaikaNA

Mik195 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, @ZOS_GinaBruno

Seriously? That's not even remotely important for the game right now..

I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version.

Still not important... Oh and you can mimic the male armor on female characters by wearing costumes that you can purchase in the crown store...


You can even put wedding dresses on male characters including other female garments... not sure what you or anyone else is expecting.

Syldras

@NotaDaedraWorshipper

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

But you wonder why they did those restrictions in the first place, like why is some pony tails only for males and others for females. Or even weirder, why are some of the khajiit earrings only for males and some only for the females even if they look very alike.

It really makes you wonder. Only thing I could think of is that they might have thought about trying to monetize everything twice, because you'd have to buy everything seperately if you have both male and female characters. But if that had been the intention, they probably wouldn't have changed that policy so easily. I think all newer adornments and hairstyles are genderneutral now (Or are there any exceptions?), which I really appreciate in terms of freedom of choice. Of course it'd be nice to have some older items updated and made available regardless of gender, but I really doubt they'd spend time on that if there are many other more pressing issues to solve (same goes for a certain toothless dog...).

It's nice to see that there are still forum people around who remember me. The next time I disappear, just ask @Lugaldu - he normally knows where I am.

Arunei

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Different things fit different models

What you're asking for is for ZOS to make a second version of every gender locked cosmetic in the game.

Would it be cool? Sure, id love a bunch more cosmetic options. But it is a tonne of work, and id rather see them put that effort into newer cooler items than gender unlocking hundreds of old and dated stuff.

I'm pretty sure there aren't hundreds of gender-locked Cosmetics. And I don't know anything about coding, but I also doubt it would be a ton of work to edit the existing Cosmetics models to fit both genders for the ones that are locked. It's not something their entire assets team would need to work on either, it wouldn't need to be "only this and no new stuff" if they ever decided to make everything useable by both genders.