Why are adornments gender locked?

Fizzyapple · April 2022

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I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version. [/quote]

I like to dress my Bosmer character in outfits one my expect a Bosmer to wear and sometimes I struggle to find something that ticks that box but isn't too revealing. I'm not complaining as there are choices available to me that work but I do feel that my options are limited and I often just run around in the Moth Priest costume.

For whatever reason I am as self conscious of my in-game outfits as much I am irl which I know sounds strange.

As for gender locked items are concerned I suspect its a programming or design issue and I would be very very surprised to hear that ZOS isn't working on that diligently as it would give people the freedom to express their identity as they see fit. That's something I feel we should all support and I'm sure ZOS feels the same way. I bet we will see something in the near future.

Lugaldu · April 2022

I'm all for adornments, hairstyles, chest armor pieces etc. not being gender bound. However, I also have a bit of a fear that some players (sorry for the prejudice) will then take this option to the absurd - not to find their personality represented, but simply to annoy other players. Specifically, I'm not sure if it would help the immersion if half-naked Ayrenn doubles with full beards and glowing eyes and skin are running around everywhere. Sure, it's a fantasy game that should give you all the possibilities, don´t get me wrong, but I also think the visual design of the characters should fit into the overall ambience - and here even the skins sometimes go too far for my taste (not to speak about some mounts).

SammyKhajit · April 2022

Folks, all fantasy or sci fi video games reflect the real world to an extent, because that is where they draw ideas from.

If you don’t want to engage with that, there is Tetris.

Arunei · April 2022

[snip] It has [snip] everything to do with people wanting more options, especially when a lot of Cosmetics aren't gender-locked like Dresses. I don't understand why people keep thinking this is some 'rights' or 'political' thing or whatever.

Lugaldu wrote: »

I'm all for adornments, hairstyles, chest armor pieces etc. not being gender bound. However, I also have a bit of a fear that some players (sorry for the prejudice) will then take this option to the absurd - not to find their personality represented, but simply to annoy other players. Specifically, I'm not sure if it would help the immersion if half-naked Ayrenn doubles with full beards and glowing eyes and skin are running around everywhere. Sure, it's a fantasy game that should give you all the possibilities, don´t get me wrong, but I also think the visual design of the characters should fit into the overall ambience - and here even the skins sometimes go too far for my taste (not to speak about some mounts).

No offense but honestly it's no one else's business how people want to design their characters. Why would you care so much about a character you would see for 2 seconds as you run by them or vice versa? Plus this can literally already happen in-game as it is. The only difference between your example and what we have is female models not being able to wear Facial Hair.

In regards to realism, in a world where we can be walking sculptures of ice or zombies or eldritch abominations or any other outlandish Skins, where the sun and stars are literally holes in the sky leading to another plane, where cat and lizard people exist, where literal Demons and Gods exist...I really don't see women with beards being a problem. A) there are actual women with beards irl so it can clearly happen naturally, b) things such as disguises and costumes exist, and c) I'm pretty sure a simple spell in the game could give whoever wanted one a beard, man woman or otherwise. Reality is kind of the last argument against unlocking Facial Hair for female models.

[edited to remove quote and references]

ZOS_Lunar · April 2022

Greetings!

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Lugaldu · April 2022

Arunei wrote: »

No offense but honestly it's no one else's business how people want to design their characters. Why would you care so much about a character you would see for 2 seconds as you run by them or vice versa? Plus this can literally already happen in-game as it is. The only difference between your example and what we have is female models not being able to wear Facial Hair.
In regards to realism, in a world where we can be walking sculptures of ice or zombies or eldritch abominations or any other outlandish Skins, where the sun and stars are literally holes in the sky leading to another plane, where cat and lizard people exist, where literal Demons and Gods exist...I really don't see women with beards being a problem. A) there are actual women with beards irl so it can clearly happen naturally, b) things such as disguises and costumes exist, and c) I'm pretty sure a simple spell in the game could give whoever wanted one a beard, man woman or otherwise. Reality is kind of the last argument against unlocking Facial Hair for female models.

I've mentioned it before - it's my personal view. Sure, there are plenty of extraordinary creatures in Tamriel, but for me there's a difference between fighting a zombie or Ice Atronach in a dungeon and encountering them in the bank. The latter just doesn't make sense to me - why would a zombie go to the bank? It's also still a question of playing the old parts of the Elder Scrolls series, because there the "unusual" creatures were usually the enemy and not the friendly neighbor.

Syldras · April 2022

Fizzyapple wrote: »

For whatever reason I am as self conscious of my in-game outfits as much I am irl which I know sounds strange.

I think most people are. Either because they identify with their character roleplaying-wise, or because they at least want something appealing to look at. Ah, and then there are people who want to show off for whatever reason, using only the rarest adornments, skins, styles and whatnot, no matter how silly they look.

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Folks, all fantasy or sci fi video games reflect the real world to an extent, because that is where they draw ideas from.

Yes, every culture had gender roles so far, including changing ideas about what types of clothes are considered appropriate for men and women and what types not. I'm not sure if that's true for Tamriel though, where you can ride through a town on a rotten, decaying horse, followed by a death hound, while being a Dremora. If people don't bat an eye on that sight, why would they care about an otherwise ordinary looking guy in a dress or a woman wearing a fake beard?

Arunei wrote: »

No offense but honestly it's no one else's business how people want to design their characters. Why would you care so much about a character you would see for 2 seconds as you run by them or vice versa?

Immersion. It will always remain a conflict here, with people enjoying absurd, unnatural looking ice, fire or whatnot skins and riding on slime and glitter mounts that look more like children's toys than something that you would normally ride on, even in a world where magic exists, - and those who'd prefer a more down-to-earth environment.

Arunei wrote: »

I really don't see women with beards being a problem. A) there are actual women with beards irl so it can clearly happen naturally, b) things such as disguises and costumes exist, and c) I'm pretty sure a simple spell in the game could give whoever wanted one a beard, man woman or otherwise. Reality is kind of the last argument against unlocking Facial Hair for female models.

He hasn't complained about women with beards or about people wanting to express their true self in roleplay, but about the fact that there are people who try to make their characters extremely flashy and absurd looking on purpose - and I totally agree on that. It's not about "normal" adventury-looking female character models wearing male clothes and a fake beard as a disguise, it's not about women who have a bit of facial hair naturally (I'm not even against making beards available for female characters in ESO - most look like glued on fake beards anyway). Actually I'm worried about the exact opposity: People using it to mock everything and everyone nonconforming to gender roles. We have that already now, yes, in the end all those orks in wedding dresses aren't more than "Look! Fat man in woman's dress funny!"

Marronsuisse · April 2022

Syldras wrote: »

He hasn't complained about women with beards or about people wanting to express their true self in roleplay, but about the fact that there are people who try to make their characters extremely flashy and absurd looking on purpose - and I totally agree on that. It's not about "normal" adventury-looking female character models wearing male clothes and a fake beard as a disguise, it's not about women who have a bit of facial hair naturally (I'm not even against making beards available for female characters in ESO - most look like glued on fake beards anyway). Actually I'm worried about the exact opposity: People using it to mock everything and everyone nonconforming to gender roles. We have that already now, yes, in the end all those orks in wedding dresses aren't more than "Look! Fat man in woman's dress funny!"

Agreed re: female characters wearing beards, I'd worry about people doing it and using slurs against trans people as their name or something as a "joke".

But unless the character is behaving in a way that suggests they're mocking via chat, username, actions, etc, I always assume people are just expressing themselves. If I see the occasional burly orc in a bright pink dress I tend to imagine they've made a character that they identify with and are dressing themselves in a way they want to irl. I know I'm maybe being generous in some cases but that's what I see.

Rasande_Robin · April 2022

The greater question is, why can't you recolor adornments?

NotaDaedraWorshipper · April 2022

Syldras wrote: »

I'm not sure if that's true for Tamriel though, where you can ride through a town on a rotten, decaying horse, followed by a death hound, while being a Dremora. If people don't bat an eye on that sight, why would they care about an otherwise ordinary looking guy in a dress or a woman wearing a fake beard?

If npcs reacted as they would do in lore, they would very much bat an eye, probably do some screaming for guards and run away if they saw a dremora ride a decaying horse with a death hound as company. But a man in a dress or robe, or woman in a beard is nothing out of the ordinary.

Syldras · April 2022

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

If npcs reacted as they would do in lore, they would very much bat an eye, probably do some screaming for guards and run away if they saw a dremora ride a decaying horse with a death hound as company.

Nah, they're just desensitized. If you're, at the same time, threatened by a world war, the planemeld, dragons, vampires, and half a dozen Daedra lords trying to destroy Nirn or the whole Mundus, a single Dremora on a rotting horse on a peaceful stroll through town isn't that worrisome anymore

SilverBride · April 2022

Tamriel is it's own world with its own societies and social norms and is not bound by those found in the real world.

robwolf666 · April 2022

Marronsuisse wrote: »

If I see the occasional burly orc in a bright pink dress I tend to imagine they've made a character that they identify with and are dressing themselves in a way they want to irl.

I've got a pretty burly female orc that wears a dress (to hide the mis-matched low level armour that looks daft temporarily), doesn't look too bad either. Kind of had to be buff to role play as a two-hander though.

ArchMikem · April 2022

Mik195 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, ZOS_GinaBruno

Seriously? That's not even remotely important for the game right now..

I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version.

I don't recall what you mean. All the styles my female characters wear cover their "female bits". In fact there have been a couple recent styles that allow Male characters to go bare chested.

Mik195 · April 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Eclipse318 wrote: »

Glad to hear that you'll be talking about the importance of women and nonbinary role models in the live stream. Does this mean you'll finally be unlocking adornments and hairstyles for all genders? Will we be able to choose what style of chest armor our character has? I'll be watching the stream, hoping you'll address this, ZOS_GinaBruno

Seriously? That's not even remotely important for the game right now..

I disagree. Not being able to use many styles because "male toons should look like adventurers" but " female adventurers need to share their female bits with the world" annoys me. Give female characters options to mimic the male armor or the "pretty" version.

I don't recall what you mean. All the styles my female characters wear cover their "female bits". In fact there have been a couple recent styles that allow Male characters to go bare chested.

Gem Prospector on females has cleavage. The male characters wear a shirt under the outer top. A male character in the free Golden Saint costume looks great, if I recall correctly, female costume has cutouts. If you go back and look at the splash screen for Summerset, the elven woman is wearing thigh high boots and low cut top while the male character is not. There are others that I can't think of off the top of my head. I don't want to take anything away from people, but just want the option.