Weapon Leveling is upside down

Lapin_Logic

The Skill lines curve progress is upside down and also too long.

As a 6 year veteran with 36 toons who now with the Hybrid changes have to Break *All* my characters to rank up weapons they never needed previously it is taking too long to get back to normal.

It is also baffling for the new player experience, for example I pick up a resto staff, do 2 loops of Skyreach unlock ALL active skills.... But it takes another 30 loops to get to rank 50 just for the ultimate? (assuming a back bar/alt weapon with 1 or 2 skills placed on your Front bar)??

How is a new player not "Overwhelmed" by 5 active skills, but not responsible enough to handle the Passives that actually..... Make the weapon good and worthwhile.

Why am I grinding on 36 toons for passives when I *Know* what the skills and passives do?

WHY is Account based Achievements removing my ability to track what Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood Quest I have completed when I broke off them 2 years ago and telling me I have killed All Bosses in a Public Dungeon .... But *DOESEN'T* share between Characters ..
1. Weapon Skills
2. Dark brotherhood skill level
3. Psijiic Skill level
4. Scrying Skill level
5. My expensive motifs

It's like the worst parts of grinding have been left in the game, I was so excited to just be able to Quest or PVP or Dungeon run without having to grind 500 Antiquities on alts or re vist Training Gear dungeon running or "Read" mages guild books, Instead I am having to do even more of it because Every weapon is a viable fit for both Mag and Stam in X content.

Please please please reduce the XP needed to max a weapon, it's boring.

Yours Sincerely
A Bored Player

Amottica

I started ESO about a year ago and never felt overwhelmed about leaving a weapon or skills. It seems straightforward and made sense. It still makes sense.

The issue seems to be releat3ed to the number of characters you are working on and that it seems you want the results expedited to suit your tastes. I suggest using the double XP events with XP pots to your fullest advantage.

Hotdog_23

My process for starting a new character and have done so all 18 times now is always level all the skill lines to max and spend the gold to respect and unlock both morphs to level 4. Generally, by the time they hit 50 and complete the Thieves guild, Dark brotherhood and Alliance War to level 10 everything is unlocked. Well except horse training and mages guild books. This has paid off nicely with update 33 changes.

Stay safe

Lapin_Logic

Amottica wrote: »

I started ESO about a year ago and never felt overwhelmed about leaving a weapon or skills. It seems straightforward and made sense. It still makes sense.

The issue seems to be releat3ed to the number of characters you are working on and that it seems you want the results expedited to suit your tastes. I suggest using the double XP events with XP pots to your fullest advantage.

"Overwhelmed" is a bit tongue in cheek seeing as we only have 5 active skills on a bar.

For the most part it is fine, but in the time I have played we have had relentlessly shifting goal posts, Gear sets turned from great to garbage in 6 months of release, new reworks of old skills etc.

I feel like I am doing nothing but "Taking advantage of double XP events and scrolls and worse than that is I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels on the start line.

I have just under 2000 Champion points, you feel like you should have done it all by now, Not digging out your "Training Julianos gear" and scrabbling for a couple of skill points with just your spammable on the front bar while you rank SnB on your Mag sorc just in case that becomes Meta in 3 months in PVP, and I don’t see why it takes weeks to get from SnB 30 to 50 if your questing, it feels like a Stalling "Achievement" just to take time with little reward.

Snamyap

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

It is also baffling for the new player experience, for example I pick up a resto staff, do 2 loops of Skyreach unlock ALL active skills.... But it takes another 30 loops to get to rank 50 just for the ultimate? (assuming a back bar/alt weapon with 1 or 2 skills placed on your Front bar)??

Grinding: watching a kettle waiting for it to boil. You can only use two different weapons on a build. Just choose. And we just got five major exp scrolls and an exp bonus event.

tsaescishoeshiner

If you're bored, don't do it.

Hybrid skill scaling has added to the weapon options for builds, but not in a new way. For example, magsorcs? Dual Wield and SnB HAVE already been meta or viable on them in certain patches in the past. So there's no new reason to grind out all the weapon skills. That sounds like self-inflicted boredom.

I get the build fatigue of changing skills and gear around too often for patches, but I think these changes are for the best (although it seems like there are PvE balance and PvP healing issues to work out).

ADarklore

I just do dolmen runs for hours to level all weapon and armor skill lines. In the process I gain enough jewelry and armor drops to completely level my gear crafting lines to 50 and make a ton of money from selling the deconstruction materials along the way- especially from the deconned jewelry mats. It goes even faster using XP scrolls or events. I never felt a NEED to level all skill lines, but prefer to keep my options open in case I want to swap from magicka to stamina which is so much easier now with armories.

dmnqwk

Since you can level a character from 1 to 50 in under 90 minutes the biggest concern would be the number of new players not being shown/taught that your character's level is only a small fraction of the levelling process.

Most other games have you level to max and you're done levelling, but ESO has a lot more to level beyond that:

1) level to 50
2) Alliance Rank to 4 for horn if you intend on being a tank/healer
3) Mage line for the ultimate plus inner light/equilibrium
4) Fighter line for ultimate plus trap beast
5) Psijic line if you hate trap beast
6) Horsey to 60
7) Alchemy and Provisioning to max for longer potion/food/drink buffs
8) Unlocking enough skill points for 24 class passives, 20 weapon passives, 12-36 armor passives, 9 race passives, approx 12 fighter+mage passives and up to 20 for your skills + morphs (you get 66 from hitting 50... nowhere near enough!)

So if new players were taught/shown more on that, maybe the belief that hitting 50 means you're complete would go out the window!

JanTanhide

Well, most don't have 36 characters to level. System works well for me.

Marginis

Amottica wrote: »

I started ESO about a year ago and never felt overwhelmed about leaving a weapon or skills. It seems straightforward and made sense. It still makes sense.

The issue seems to be releat3ed to the number of characters you are working on and that it seems you want the results expedited to suit your tastes. I suggest using the double XP events with XP pots to your fullest advantage.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

As someone who has the full 18 characters on my main account, and somewhere around 40 characters if counting all my accounts, having played semi-regularly for all that time, I should know as well as anyone - it's not the game, it's how you're playing it.

EF321

Weapon in hand, skills on bar, start turning in alchemy and enchanting master writs. 5 minutes, fully leveled skill line.

Amottica

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I started ESO about a year ago and never felt overwhelmed about leaving a weapon or skills. It seems straightforward and made sense. It still makes sense.

The issue seems to be releat3ed to the number of characters you are working on and that it seems you want the results expedited to suit your tastes. I suggest using the double XP events with XP pots to your fullest advantage.

"Overwhelmed" is a bit tongue in cheek seeing as we only have 5 active skills on a bar.

For the most part it is fine, but in the time I have played we have had relentlessly shifting goal posts, Gear sets turned from great to garbage in 6 months of release, new reworks of old skills etc.

I feel like I am doing nothing but "Taking advantage of double XP events and scrolls and worse than that is I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels on the start line.

I have just under 2000 Champion points, you feel like you should have done it all by now, Not digging out your "Training Julianos gear" and scrabbling for a couple of skill points with just your spammable on the front bar while you rank SnB on your Mag sorc just in case that becomes Meta in 3 months in PVP, and I don’t see why it takes weeks to get from SnB 30 to 50 if your questing, it feels like a Stalling "Achievement" just to take time with little reward.

It still sounds more like you are choosing to do this work quickly on 36 characters rather than it being an issue with the design of leveling the weapon and skill lines. That is a choice as I seriously doubt all 36 characters will be used heavily. I say that as someone who has over 40 characters in a different game that always raised the level cap with every expansion.

As such I suggest doing this in batches and do not stress over the big picture since it is really not needed.

DrSlaughtr

All the grindy stuff made sense in 2014 because you didn't want players blowing through all that content in a short time.

In 2022 there is so much content to experience that grinding all these skill lines just seems unnecessarily long. Forcing someone to grind xp for hours to unlock a weapon line to play the content you need it for seems like overkill because by the time you're done, your brain is mush.

The guild lines are fine, for the most part. But weapon and class lines could just to be made sightly faster.

Lapin_Logic

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

If you're bored, don't do it.

Hybrid skill scaling has added to the weapon options for builds, but not in a new way. For example, magsorcs? Dual Wield and SnB HAVE already been meta or viable on them in certain patches in the past. So there's no new reason to grind out all the weapon skills. That sounds like self-inflicted boredom.

I get the build fatigue of changing skills and gear around too often for patches, but I think these changes are for the best (although it seems like there are PvE balance and PvP healing issues to work out).

But exactly "Build Fatigue", that is the reason I just want to get them over and done so when I do need them, I have them and do not have to be disappointed or held up in future, I can just fit them.

This isn't the same game we have been playing for the past 7 years, a mad toon would only need 2 weapons, now you can (read should) grind all of them, yet the XP requirements are the same.

I have served my time as a Journeyman, Now through changes out of my control I am an Apprentice once more, I don't get everyone's fury over a suggestion that Grinding (on repeat charaters) be made easier

Lapin_Logic

Marginis wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

it's not the game, it's how you're playing it.

I am playing it 4 hours a day (8 on a saturday) 7 days a week for the last 6 years doing constant content like questing, Cyro, IC Skyreach in a double XP sometimes to boost CP.....
The Hybrid changes came in a couple of weeks ago however so I'm not sure that any of that is relevant as my characters were "Complete" back then.

DrSlaughtr

There is a certain segment of players who think playing this game should be a full time job. You spend 2 hours doing writs and surveys for mats and gold. You spend 5 hours grinding for gear. Then you got 1 hour to actually play the game. It's literally the South Park wow episode.

It pervades the game. Look at jewelry crafting. When it was coming out, players who grinded for gold pieces tossed a fit that players could just upgrade their purple gear. So now we have the worst crafting system in the game where you aren't even guaranteed a grain on breakdown. Crafted jewelry is cost prohibitive for most players.

Making things like skill lines easier to level is good for everyone. Vets on new toons and new players to the game.

Marginis

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

it's not the game, it's how you're playing it.

I am playing it 4 hours a day (8 on a saturday) 7 days a week for the last 6 years doing constant content like questing, Cyro, IC Skyreach in a double XP sometimes to boost CP.....
The Hybrid changes came in a couple of weeks ago however so I'm not sure that any of that is relevant as my characters were "Complete" back then.

Let me refer you to this comment:

TheEndBringer wrote: »

There is a certain segment of players who think playing this game should be a full time job. You spend 2 hours doing writs and surveys for mats and gold. You spend 5 hours grinding for gear. Then you got 1 hour to actually play the game. It's literally the South Park wow episode.

If your problem is that the game feels like a job, or rather, that the game sucks when you treat it like a job - maybe stop treating it like a job.

Another way of saying it could be that the hybrid changes help a lot of players. They make the game feel more intuitively like an Elder Scrolls game. If that doesn't open up opportunities for you, that says more about you than the changes.

Please don't take this as intended to offend - I'm just recommending that what ZoS is doing be looked at from multiple perspectives, if only because there are so many perspectives that play ESO.

DrSlaughtr

Marginis wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

it's not the game, it's how you're playing it.

I am playing it 4 hours a day (8 on a saturday) 7 days a week for the last 6 years doing constant content like questing, Cyro, IC Skyreach in a double XP sometimes to boost CP.....
The Hybrid changes came in a couple of weeks ago however so I'm not sure that any of that is relevant as my characters were "Complete" back then.

Let me refer you to this comment:

TheEndBringer wrote: »

There is a certain segment of players who think playing this game should be a full time job. You spend 2 hours doing writs and surveys for mats and gold. You spend 5 hours grinding for gear. Then you got 1 hour to actually play the game. It's literally the South Park wow episode.

If your problem is that the game feels like a job, or rather, that the game sucks when you treat it like a job - maybe stop treating it like a job.

Another way of saying it could be that the hybrid changes help a lot of players. They make the game feel more intuitively like an Elder Scrolls game. If that doesn't open up opportunities for you, that says more about you than the changes.

Please don't take this as intended to offend - I'm just recommending that what ZoS is doing be looked at from multiple perspectives, if only because there are so many perspectives that play ESO.

I don't treat it like a job. I can play 2ish hours a day because I have real life responsibilities. So I play the game mode I enjoy. But it does make it exponentially harder to earn gold, farm mats and gear, and progress characters.

No one is suggesting that anyone get anything for free. Making skill lines go a little faster doesn't hurt anyone.

Thecompton73

I'll never want or need that many characters but having started over on PC after years on PS it is very daunting to think how much time it will take to get even back to six characters (currently still working on the 1st a little less than a month in) with all the necessities leveled. I've always only had one main crafter and then all the other toons just level Alchemy and Provisioning since those both have passives that affect gameplay.
I really do wish they'd do something to make leveling the mounts easier/faster though. Having a fast mount with good stamina and extra bag space makes leveling everything else much quicker and easier. But as it is it's the slowest grind of all and the only way to make it go faster is to spend thousands of crowns per character. And if you start a brand new account even hitting lvl 60 on speed leaves you trailing groups in Cyro that all have the CP to unlock the extra 10% boost from the green tree. I should be able to hit 400CP a month from starting but that's only because I know the tricks of where and how to grind XP while using 3 weeks of 100% event boosts and all the 150% XP scrolls they've given us. And it will still be MONTHS before I have enough CP to get that Gifted Rider star so I can keep up with everyone else from keep to keep. I can see constantly falling behind and getting jumped while alone being a deal breaker for many new players going into PvP for the first time.

MashmalloMan

TheEndBringer wrote: »

All the grindy stuff made sense in 2014 because you didn't want players blowing through all that content in a short time.

In 2022 there is so much content to experience that grinding all these skill lines just seems unnecessarily long. Forcing someone to grind xp for hours to unlock a weapon line to play the content you need it for seems like overkill because by the time you're done, your brain is mush.

The guild lines are fine, for the most part. But weapon and class lines could just to be made sightly faster.

In my experience, they're perfect the way they are in that if you level from 1-50 you can get every class skill line, 2 weapons, your main armor and even some guild skill lines to level 50. You just need to do it optimally.. The issue for most people is they don't do this while they're leveling and instead do it when they're max level, since you're not getting constant skill points and feeling that progression the grind is a lot more tedious and apparent.

You have about 11 ways to distribute your exp gains to do this optimally so by the time you hit 50, most if not all the important skill lines and morphs are maxed, this is typically how I do it:

1. Light armor (off 2/1 pieces)
2. Medium armor (main 3/5 pieces)
3. Heavy armor (off 2/1 pieces)
4. Equipped Weapon
5. 1st skill - Class tree 1
6. 2nd skill - Class tree 2
7. 3rd skill - Class tree 3
8. 4th skill - Back bar weapon skill
9. 5th skill - Flex spot.. eg guild, equipped weapon skill, world, whatever you want to get to max. Alternate this out as you max the skill.
10. 6th skill (ult) - Alternate between Class tree 1/2/3 and eventually weapon ults. Change based on max level, morph, or class tree progression.
11. Focus on leveling a guild skill line like Mages (collecting books and shards by exploring), Undaunted (queing for dungeons to complete dungeon quests), Fighters (kill undead) and/or Assault/Support (queue for BGs).

DrSlaughtr

Again, there is no drawback to decreasing the time it takes to go from 1 to 50 on skill, weapon and armor lines. There's hundreds of hours of content to play. Let people get what they need to actually play the content without spending hours running around xp farms.

Listen, you still have to get the skill points to fill that stuff in. You're not giving anything away.