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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

Why are there no Khajiit in Blackwood?

Supreme_Atromancer
Supreme_Atromancer
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4rasbf4mi24o.png

The Trans-niben- the narrow corridor of land between Elsweyr and Black Marsh is a land peopled by Nibenese, Argonians and Khajiit, sometimes in conflict, sometimes in peace. The Khajiiti people have had a very active hand to play in this area- receiving the land from the Argonians, defending it against Nibenese encroachment, and through the Anequenean Wander-Kings recapturing it once again by force. It was during the latter that Leyawiin became a Khajiiti city, and it is said that the city's chapel to Zenithar was converted for worship of The Two Moons. By the times shortly before TES4 Oblivion, it was Khajiiti land again, but surrendered by The Mane to the Imperials who wished to create a corridor between Khajiit and Argonians who were often at strife. It is clear that the Khajiit have often considered the fertile banks west bank of the Niben (The Malapi, in their own Ta'agra language) theirs to hunt. Although in ESO's timeline the Nibenese are apparently in control of this region, Elsweyr is still just a stone's throw off the map, and Rimmen is so close to Leyawiin that you can ride between them both in a matter of moments.

But for all this, I fear that my main man Chuxian's desire to immerse himself amongst the dynamics of these 3 peoples is in vain: there is hardly a Khajiit to be seen. In the hopes of getting more than just the Lizard man's point of view (they're just over here being all passive, freely giving their land away to the Khajiit and getting enslaved), I went through all of Leyawiin and found two Khajiit. And they wont say a thing. For all the stakes and history that Khajiit have in this land, they have no point of view, nothing to say. There are far more Bosmer than Khajiit. Hell, there's more orcs for that matter.

The Renrijra Kriin are a fascinating faction you can encounter in TES4: Oblivion, where they were depicted as Robin Hood-style sabateurs working to undermine the Mane's surrender of the Trans-Niben to Cyrodiil. If you're interested, check out the lorebook "Ahzirr Traajijazeri" if you haven't already, its really pretty fascinating. But in short, the Renrijra were an interesting faction because they told part of the story of this particular part of the world, giving it character; they told part of the Khajiiti story; and because its hard to tell whether they were noble "champions of the people", or just a bunch of self-serving criminals trying to justify their illicit activities in the guise of heroism. They themselves would probably be the first to admit that they were both. And neither.

Interestingly, in ESO's timeline, they also existed as a faction: we encounter them operating as pirates in Shadowfen's Silent Mire, but after this quest, we don't see them again. Although their cause (and whole identity) is tied up in a 3rd era political situation, their existence in the second era presents some interesting lore questions. As Chuxian explains, for example, there has certainly been tension between the Nibenese and the Khajiit, and even well before the 3rd era, there seems to be some changing hands and shifting borders between Elsweyr and the Trans-niben. Or more to the point, why would you include a faction whose whole story is defined by the Trans-niben situation and then not have anything about them when we visit that location?

What about the Baandari? Or the Dragon crisis in Elsweyr? We have the Imperials at Fort Borderwatch to mention these things, but again, no Khajiit to be seen.

I love the stuff that makes the world feel more connected. I love that ZOS has gone to the effort in the first place to have those guards at Borderwatch acknowledge the Dragons and the Baandari, because it makes sense, and it draws you into the world. I love that you can go to the Valenwood Gate in Elsweyr and there are Bosmer there, and they have something to say, which is intriguing and increases our understanding of the world. I love it because it makes exploration rewarding. This sort of thing is world-building done right, and this post is a call for more of that.

It doesn't demand much- a very few NPCs with perspective, a lorebook or two. I also think that when considering designing Points of Interest or the random vignettes, fashion-conscious dunmer and crazy chipmonk ladies are one thing, its a massive shame if they eclipse space for real lore and story-telling potential, because they also offer such great opportunities to touch on self-enclosed bits of lore or story that the world is calling to be told.

Blackwood's chapter was meant to be about Imperials and Argonians. Khajiit were already done (in a fantastic way) just a few short years ago. And everything added to the game comes at a premium. But I think almost utter absence of ANY Khajiit, with no narrative, no perspective to explore on a part of the world that they were a signature part of is a missed opportunity. But perhaps Lanzikha can get to the heart of it far better than I can:

j2q9lxdm640t.png
  • tsaescishoeshiner
    tsaescishoeshiner
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    I had the same response, and was expecting to see khajiit factions, settlements, or culture in Blackwood. Specifically, I was hoping to see some background for the Renrijra Krin's cultural and historic claim to Leyawiin.

    There's obviously a lot of time between ESO and the events of Oblivion, and the Renrijra Krin could be referring to land claims long before or long after ESO's time. I haven't done all the antiquities for Blackwood yet, though—that would be a good spot for this sort of thing.
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • karthrag_inak
    karthrag_inak
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    Apologies. Khajiit's attempt at humor was embarrassing, and so he removed it.
    Edited by karthrag_inak on April 8, 2022 10:18AM
    PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Whilst I agree with OP, I do think at least part of ZoS crafting Blackwood as they did is to give it a different flavor than the recent multi-part Elsweyr DLC that was heavily Khajiit, and can understand that if that was in fact their reasoning.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • moleculardrugs
    moleculardrugs
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    4rasbf4mi24o.png

    The Trans-niben- the narrow corridor of land between Elsweyr and Black Marsh is a land peopled by Nibenese, Argonians and Khajiit, sometimes in conflict, sometimes in peace. The Khajiiti people have had a very active hand to play in this area- receiving the land from the Argonians, defending it against Nibenese encroachment, and through the Anequenean Wander-Kings recapturing it once again by force. It was during the latter that Leyawiin became a Khajiiti city, and it is said that the city's chapel to Zenithar was converted for worship of The Two Moons. By the times shortly before TES4 Oblivion, it was Khajiiti land again, but surrendered by The Mane to the Imperials who wished to create a corridor between Khajiit and Argonians who were often at strife. It is clear that the Khajiit have often considered the fertile banks west bank of the Niben (The Malapi, in their own Ta'agra language) theirs to hunt. Although in ESO's timeline the Nibenese are apparently in control of this region, Elsweyr is still just a stone's throw off the map, and Rimmen is so close to Leyawiin that you can ride between them both in a matter of moments.

    But for all this, I fear that my main man Chuxian's desire to immerse himself amongst the dynamics of these 3 peoples is in vain: there is hardly a Khajiit to be seen. In the hopes of getting more than just the Lizard man's point of view (they're just over here being all passive, freely giving their land away to the Khajiit and getting enslaved), I went through all of Leyawiin and found two Khajiit. And they wont say a thing. For all the stakes and history that Khajiit have in this land, they have no point of view, nothing to say. There are far more Bosmer than Khajiit. Hell, there's more orcs for that matter.

    The Renrijra Kriin are a fascinating faction you can encounter in TES4: Oblivion, where they were depicted as Robin Hood-style sabateurs working to undermine the Mane's surrender of the Trans-Niben to Cyrodiil. If you're interested, check out the lorebook "Ahzirr Traajijazeri" if you haven't already, its really pretty fascinating. But in short, the Renrijra were an interesting faction because they told part of the story of this particular part of the world, giving it character; they told part of the Khajiiti story; and because its hard to tell whether they were noble "champions of the people", or just a bunch of self-serving criminals trying to justify their illicit activities in the guise of heroism. They themselves would probably be the first to admit that they were both. And neither.

    Interestingly, in ESO's timeline, they also existed as a faction: we encounter them operating as pirates in Shadowfen's Silent Mire, but after this quest, we don't see them again. Although their cause (and whole identity) is tied up in a 3rd era political situation, their existence in the second era presents some interesting lore questions. As Chuxian explains, for example, there has certainly been tension between the Nibenese and the Khajiit, and even well before the 3rd era, there seems to be some changing hands and shifting borders between Elsweyr and the Trans-niben. Or more to the point, why would you include a faction whose whole story is defined by the Trans-niben situation and then not have anything about them when we visit that location?

    What about the Baandari? Or the Dragon crisis in Elsweyr? We have the Imperials at Fort Borderwatch to mention these things, but again, no Khajiit to be seen.

    I love the stuff that makes the world feel more connected. I love that ZOS has gone to the effort in the first place to have those guards at Borderwatch acknowledge the Dragons and the Baandari, because it makes sense, and it draws you into the world. I love that you can go to the Valenwood Gate in Elsweyr and there are Bosmer there, and they have something to say, which is intriguing and increases our understanding of the world. I love it because it makes exploration rewarding. This sort of thing is world-building done right, and this post is a call for more of that.

    It doesn't demand much- a very few NPCs with perspective, a lorebook or two. I also think that when considering designing Points of Interest or the random vignettes, fashion-conscious dunmer and crazy chipmonk ladies are one thing, its a massive shame if they eclipse space for real lore and story-telling potential, because they also offer such great opportunities to touch on self-enclosed bits of lore or story that the world is calling to be told.

    Blackwood's chapter was meant to be about Imperials and Argonians. Khajiit were already done (in a fantastic way) just a few short years ago. And everything added to the game comes at a premium. But I think almost utter absence of ANY Khajiit, with no narrative, no perspective to explore on a part of the world that they were a signature part of is a missed opportunity. But perhaps Lanzikha can get to the heart of it far better than I can:

    j2q9lxdm640t.png

    I have only seen one Khajiit and that was in Leyawiin’s Outlaw’s Refuge.

    Does anyone have a map of Blackwood and it’s neighboring zones? Maybe there’s a geographical barrier that prevents travel?
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