Price fixing in guild traders

Lysette

sarahthes wrote: »

Proof that people have a lot of gold? Most people at my level of play tend to sit on large amounts of wealth. I don't have much gold compared to most people on my circles (end game raiders who sell carries) and I'm sitting on almost 100m gold.

We are also the ones who buy 5-6 stacks of pots at a time, drop 4m+ on dragon Rheum in one shot, and think nothing of buying a full set of chromium platings (other than to complain about the price increase).

And there is nothing wrong with it - it is your money and you can do with it as you please.

theendoftheriver

tomstock wrote: »

Is it possible to revamp how guild traders work to reduce a single guild's ability to buy up all of a certain item, only to sell at 100,000g, creating a monopoly on the item. This has happened with past events, but I noticed it instantly with the Jester's Festival. As I was looking to buy the memento fragments, referencing Tamriel Trade Center, I could see a single player or a group of players buying up every fair priced item and then instantly posting it for 100,000g upwards to 400,000g. This amounts to price fixing and really takes the fun away from the game.

I entirely disagree. I think the trader is fine without any limiting. Gold is ridiculously easy to get in this game. These are a fine sink. I don't do cosmetics insofar as purchasing anything except motifs to fill out the list to do crafting writs. Although a funny thing happened after I read this thread.

I sell Ambrosia on my toons for a relatively low price. Someone was telling me about how they wanted to purchase my entire stock. I considered the offer, gave them a high quote, and they still wanted to do it. I said no because what do I need with another 20 million gold?

As far as I can tell, they intended to mark up the mats for a considerable profit. I just like selling decently priced XP buffs for a fair margin. The sales help my guilds with taxes and I thought about it, but again, what good is the gold when it becomes worth less and less while the mats themselves become more valuable the longer I sit on them and stack them up.

Fizzyapple

Arunei wrote: »

Gaeliannas wrote: »

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I don't buy things if they're ridiculously priced. The joke poppers pieces for this event have gotten ridiculous. Before the event they'd sell for 1K - 5K, now they're shooting upward to 1mil. I'm not paying that much for a stupid momento... even if it is tied to an achievement. Just don't buy over priced items and they'll be forced to drop the prices to sell them.

Or they all sell out because enough players can afford them, and others just missed out. Anyone that has been following the economy and wealth in this game is well aware, that having 10, 20, 50 million gold is no longer an elite thing, a TON of players have that much gold and can buy whatever tickles their fancy.

And yet again I ask, proof? Where's the proof that "a ton of people" have this much gold? People keep making claims and then offer nothing to actually back up said claims. How is anyone "following the economy" going to know how much gold a lot of people have? The fact that a number of people have that much doesn't mean a large number do, and prices going up over the years also doesn't mean everyone suddenly has millions of gold. It means supply has either stayed or become low compared to demand, and as more people join the game the price reflects that fewer people are supplying than demanding.

The Party Popper pieces are a very good example. They sold for so little in the past because they dropped fairly often. Now they're rare, so people are pricing them much higher. People aren't spending close to 1m on pieces because they abruptly all have millions to spend, it's because they might have one or two million saved up and just blew through all their gold.

Jayman1000 wrote: »

tomstock wrote: »

Is it possible to revamp how guild traders work to reduce a single guild's ability to buy up all of a certain item, only to sell at 100,000g, creating a monopoly on the item. This has happened with past events, but I noticed it instantly with the Jester's Festival. As I was looking to buy the memento fragments, referencing Tamriel Trade Center, I could see a single player or a group of players buying up every fair priced item and then instantly posting it for 100,000g upwards to 400,000g. This amounts to price fixing and really takes the fun away from the game.

There just isn't enough items to satisfy the demand, and a number of sellers have no idea how small the supply is and how high the demand is, so they just post their items at ridiculously low prices when they could, as you so clearly demonstrated, have sold those items for hundreds of thousands of gold. Of course someone will take advantage of this and repost for profit. If the original sellers had posted at a price far closer reflecting the actual ratio between supply and demand, the flippers wouldn't be buying up and reposting as there would be little to no profit.

This logic makes no sense. What's the difference if someone sells at "normal" price as opposed to someone buying an undercut item and selling it for "normal" price? How is the flipper the bad guy and not the seller if both price the item the same? There is literally no difference so trying to use this argument to paint flippers in a bad light falls flat on its face.

Also, plenty of people who regularly sell items will know what their items are actually worth. Some people don't care about money, some people don't mind taking a loss to ensure their stuff sells. Or maybe, just maybe, not everyone uses pricing addons to know what the "normal" price is?

Also you realize that it's the people who regularly price things lower that eventually bring prices down, yes? Your entire thing here is everyone should keep prices the same so they don't lower by claiming people should stop undercutting items because of the Big Bad Flippers.

And can people also stop acting like flippers are the only ones buying cheaply prices items?

source?

alvehyannab14_ESO

Arunei wrote: »

I'd like to see proof of this cornering people like to claim keeps happening. Not once has a single person posted anything other than hearsay and anecdotal evidence.

With the number of guild traders and the fact that each one can have 500 members selling 30 things each, it's next to impossible for anyone to try and corner any market. And to do it regularly? Do people realize just how much gold that would actually take to do?

The prices on new items ALWAYS starts out high, because people are impatient and want the New Thing™ right away. It's like this with every new thing that gets released. They always start high and then tend to crash near the end of the event when a bunch of people have them and they flood the market.

Really? Proof? It's all over the place...let's see...right now on PC there's people cornering the market on Annilarch's chosen. AS well as another person who is cornering the market on all Companion medium armor with aggressive. This person has multiple listing in multiple guild for full sets, charging 200K a piece. For blues. He's on all the time and buys things up. I'm convinced anytime I see one on TTC, it's because HE has the addon and is the one who saw it, but then bought it.

A month ago, there as two people corning the market on several furnishing recipes. When one person has lots of non-so common items for sale - and the prices are x4 what MM or TTC lists them for commonly - it's a no brainer. They are manipulating the market.

And real-work economics doesnt apply to this game in ways that allow the market to correct for this behavior. In many MMOs, it's stupid easy to cheat the system. Ive hated the guildtrader system since day 1 - and the guild trader system actually makes this problem worse.

If you don't see evidence, you just aren't looking in the right places.

boi_anachronism_

Folks definitely have a ton of money to throw around. I'm in a big trading guild and I can tell you right now when we have auctions people are causally spending millions and this is ps/na. Inflation isn't quite as bad as pc.

xilfxlegion

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'd like to see proof of this cornering people like to claim keeps happening. Not once has a single person posted anything other than hearsay and anecdotal evidence.

With the number of guild traders and the fact that each one can have 500 members selling 30 things each, it's next to impossible for anyone to try and corner any market. And to do it regularly? Do people realize just how much gold that would actually take to do?

The prices on new items ALWAYS starts out high, because people are impatient and want the New Thing™ right away. It's like this with every new thing that gets released. They always start high and then tend to crash near the end of the event when a bunch of people have them and they flood the market.

Really? Proof? It's all over the place...let's see...right now on PC there's people cornering the market on Annilarch's chosen. AS well as another person who is cornering the market on all Companion medium armor with aggressive. This person has multiple listing in multiple guild for full sets, charging 200K a piece. For blues. He's on all the time and buys things up. I'm convinced anytime I see one on TTC, it's because HE has the addon and is the one who saw it, but then bought it.

A month ago, there as two people corning the market on several furnishing recipes. When one person has lots of non-so common items for sale - and the prices are x4 what MM or TTC lists them for commonly - it's a no brainer. They are manipulating the market.

And real-work economics doesnt apply to this game in ways that allow the market to correct for this behavior. In many MMOs, it's stupid easy to cheat the system. Ive hated the guildtrader system since day 1 - and the guild trader system actually makes this problem worse.

If you don't see evidence, you just aren't looking in the right places.

so what is stopping you from buying the same things they are buying ?
there are hundreds of guilds with 500 members all listing stuff -- you cant corner the market on anything. there is absolutely nothing stopping you (especially with an add on that tells you where the stuff is ) from buying it yourself before the flipper does.

but aside from that ---- every single thing sold in a guild trader in this game is easily farmable by everyone! now if you dont want to grind for it -- then you simply have to pay the price of someone else's grind.

ps --not all flippers work the same --- i dont buy anything up at the beginning of an event - i have usually already bought it months before and waited until it was worth something again

zaria

theendoftheriver wrote: »

tomstock wrote: »

Is it possible to revamp how guild traders work to reduce a single guild's ability to buy up all of a certain item, only to sell at 100,000g, creating a monopoly on the item. This has happened with past events, but I noticed it instantly with the Jester's Festival. As I was looking to buy the memento fragments, referencing Tamriel Trade Center, I could see a single player or a group of players buying up every fair priced item and then instantly posting it for 100,000g upwards to 400,000g. This amounts to price fixing and really takes the fun away from the game.

I entirely disagree. I think the trader is fine without any limiting. Gold is ridiculously easy to get in this game. These are a fine sink. I don't do cosmetics insofar as purchasing anything except motifs to fill out the list to do crafting writs. Although a funny thing happened after I read this thread.

I sell Ambrosia on my toons for a relatively low price. Someone was telling me about how they wanted to purchase my entire stock. I considered the offer, gave them a high quote, and they still wanted to do it. I said no because what do I need with another 20 million gold?

As far as I can tell, they intended to mark up the mats for a considerable profit. I just like selling decently priced XP buffs for a fair margin. The sales help my guilds with taxes and I thought about it, but again, what good is the gold when it becomes worth less and less while the mats themselves become more valuable the longer I sit on them and stack them up.

This, some might need gold and want to sell lots of items they own.
And people who bought jester festival fragments for 100.000 gold, well they sold for less than 1000 at the end of event and this trend should be pretty obvious at day 2.
Yes I'm sure some bought them but I guess most who priced that high got them in return or canceled the listing.

Crafting writs on the other hand sold very well who was also predictable.

And I was one of the ones buying up 200 something perfect roe then the CP changes was announced.
Think they was 8-9 k each as people who could buy them only used them to level up alts or learning new skill trees.
Well that changed a bit.

FrancisCrawford

Serious traders are likely to be part-time flippers.

Why? Because part of being serious is occasionally researching what things sell for at various traders. And of course you'll check what the same merchandise sells for on your own guilds.

And if you see something really cheap while you're checking, what do you do? Often, you'll buy it to later sell at a huge profit.